Magic/Psionics Transparency vs. Opacity: Which is More Breakable?

[Ellrin]

I'm going to be running a campaign shortly with both psionics and magic in the party and on the field (not necessarily at the same time for the latter, though).

In the interests of keeping a relatively even playing field between my players who are interested in optimization and those who are not, I'm wondering whether m/p transparency is more or less easily breakable than opacity, if there's any significant difference at all; and are there any kinds of abuse or cheese with either option I should look out for?

[JoshuaZ]

I'm going to be running a campaign shortly with both psionics and magic in the party and on the field (not necessarily at the same time for the latter, though).

In the interests of keeping a relatively even playing field between my players who are interested in optimization and those who are not, I'm wondering whether m/p transparency is more or less easily breakable than opacity, if there's any significant difference at all; and are there any kinds of abuse or cheese with either option I should look out for?

Opacity is fluff wise interesting but it is extremely broken. The inability to dispel psionic issues or to have spell resistance apply to their powers is extremely hard to deal with in a world that doesn't have a lot of psionics. In a world with a lot of magic and psionics with opacity you'd probably see a lot of cerebemancers. Opacity is just a massive headache for all concerned.

[Hendel]

I agree with JoshuaZ.

Transparency is the way to go UNLESS you are running a Dark Sun style world where psionics are common among the bad guys as well as the good guys. To run the opacity rules in a "standard" world is to make them very powerful and really increases the effectiveness of your average psionic user.

[Ellrin]

The world in question has regions where there's essentially only psionics, and magic is virtually unheard of, and regions that are the other way around. Not a lot in-between, though.

The idea is that the party will be visiting both through the course of the campaign. I'd kind of like to have at least some level of opacity for the flavor, though I see where you guys are coming from on the headache thing; I'm still kinda new at this DM thing and I'm already doing a complicated campaign, so further complications would be kinda bleh.

Though the other thing to consider is that, at least so far, the only psionics in the party is a soulknife (the class was slightly homebrewed to give four levels of powers, using the first four levels of powers from the psywar list).

I dunno what to do.

[Waspinator]

Transparency is highly recommended. You can still have some differences in things like powers and magic items without a direct spell equivalent, but you should let spell and power resistance be the same thing, magic and psionics able to dispel each other, etc. Otherwise you wind up with large problems.

For example, a dragon with spell resistance might be hard for a wizard to kill, but if you let psionics bypass that then it's easy for a psion to kill. The opposite is true if you have dragons with just power resistance. Better to just say that psionics is a type of magic and have that stuff be the same.

[tyckspoon]

The idea is that the party will be visiting both through the course of the campaign. I'd kind of like to have at least some level of opacity for the flavor, though I see where you guys are coming from on the headache thing; I'm still kinda new at this DM thing and I'm already doing a complicated campaign, so further complications would be kinda bleh.


Well, the easiest way to include a little bit of 'psionics and magic are different', imo, is to use the skill separations that already exist- Spellcraft, Know Arcana, and Use Magic Device do not work for psionic subjects, while Psicraft, Know Psionics, and Use Psionic Device do not work for traditional magic. If you make it a hard split then you can still have transparent mechanical interaction between the two, but until your players have their characters invest some time in learning about the other system they won't be able to predict or investigate psionic effects beyond their most obvious traits.

[Alefiend]

The world in question has regions where there's essentially only psionics, and magic is virtually unheard of, and regions that are the other way around. Not a lot in-between, though.

That's a matter of style. Opacity/transparency deals with whether the underlying nature of magic and psionics is the same.

In a fully transparent setting, a wizard who has never encountered psionics before will still be able to detect it and dispel it, because psionics are just another kind of magic. This doesn't mean the wizard will necessarily be able to identify the psi powers, so you can still have mystery.

In a fully opaque setting, magic and psionics are completely different types of power, and do not interact. The first warning the wizard has that psionics are in use is when somebody invades his brain. Similarly, the psionicist is wide open for any magical attack or probe the wizard cares to try.

[Waspinator]

Right. Just because resistance and dispelling are universal doesn't mean knowledge is.

[Ellrin]

In a fully opaque setting, magic and psionics are completely different types of power, and do not interact. The first warning the wizard has that psionics are in use is when somebody invades his brain. Similarly, the psionicist is wide open for any magical attack or probe the wizard cares to try.

Which is kinda what I wanted to do, but it's starting to sound overcomplicated. I think maybe I'll just make it mechanically transparent with some limited exceptions (for instance, psionics don't show up for detect magic and similar and vice versa), and keep the skillsets entirely separate.

Maybe draw up a detect psionics spell and a detect magic power while I'm at it, since with the way the world is set up the players should only really ever need one at a time once you know which to expect. Advantage, prepared casters. Like they needed it.

[cosmicAstrogazr]

Personally, I usually do a kind of 'half-transparency'. That is to say, if you have SR, then your PR is 1/2 SR, and vice-versa. Dispelling one with the other is half as effective, and I have a 'detect psionics' spell, and a 'detect magic' power.

*shrug* :smallsmile:

It gives some flavour, but doesn't make magic and psionics completely vulnerable to each other?

[Rubik]

Personally, I usually do a kind of 'half-transparency'. That is to say, if you have SR, then your PR is 1/2 SR, and vice-versa. Dispelling one with the other is half as effective, and I have a 'detect psionics' spell, and a 'detect magic' power.

*shrug* :smallsmile:

It gives some flavour, but doesn't make magic and psionics completely vulnerable to each other?That would make overcoming such resistances EXTREMELY easy. It's already easy enough; why obviate it so much?

[TuggyNE]

Personally, I usually do a kind of 'half-transparency'. That is to say, if you have SR, then your PR is 1/2 SR, and vice-versa. Dispelling one with the other is half as effective, and I have a 'detect psionics' spell, and a 'detect magic' power.

So... isn't that kind of like making your melee AC half your ranged AC, or doubling your AC against piercing weapons, or something?

Or, in other words: halving DCs of any sort is never ever a good idea. Don't do it. It's completely messed up, math-wise. Only flat penalties/bonuses work for that kind of thing.

Similarly, don't ever add one source of SR to another straight.

[Frozen_Feet]

Go with transparency regarding resistance, dispelling and detection, but otherwise stick to the existing skill and item separations. That takes least work on your part.