The biggest sword [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Lathund

2013-03-20, 04:39 AM

Hello people,

I'd like to play a character with an ridiculously big weapon. However, I'm not sure how to best do that. Moreover, I'd like a bit of input on which weapon to use and what else to do with my character.

Books allowed: core, PHB2, all monster manuals, all completes, MIC. Absolutely NO ToB or UA. Other books I'd need to discuss with my DM, so I'm open for suggestions from these but please not too many.

Ideas so far: I'm currently thinking about a medium character with a greatsword. Strongarm Bracers and Monkey Grip allow me to wield a huge-sized greatsword. When I'm enlarged, that increases to a gargantuan piece of steel (side note: are there any items to increase your own size or do you need someone to actually cast the spell on you?). Pretty big, but I wonder if I can get any further.

Weapon: is a greatsword the best idea, or are there other weapons available that allow for some cheese I'm not realising?

Damage dice: how do damage dice increase after large size?

Class and feats: what class should I build around this? Normally, my fighter types are actually fighters, because I have a knack for feats. However, I have a hunch the weapon focus feat tree just isn't that interesting right here, and so far I only need Monkey Grip for this build. I'm thinking about building this into a Frenzied Berserker. Barb 4/Fighter 2 (to make sure I have the prerequisite feats for FB)/FB x.

Theprettiestorc

2013-03-20, 04:57 AM

2d6 -> 2d8 -> 3d6 -> 3d8 -> 3d10

That's just from a quick lookup, but I can't quite be sure.

Greenish

2013-03-20, 05:49 AM

Well, if you've got EPH, Psychic Warrior can manifest Expansion, which can be augmented to increase your size category twice.

Eslin

2013-03-20, 05:53 AM

Google 'titan bloodline'

Gurgeh

2013-03-20, 06:48 AM

If you're able to get access to Races of Stone and don't mind having to take +1 level adjustment, then you should consider playing as a Goliath. Their Powerful Build ability means that they can wield weapons one size larger than their own size with no penalty, and it explicitly stacks with any other feats and abilities that increase the size of the weapons you wield. (plus an extra 4 strength and 2 constitution are always nice for a melee character) - alternatively, you could go with Strongarm Bracers from the MIC (which sadly do not stack with Powerful Build, but hopefully stack with Monkey Grip). So at the very least, you'll be able to wield a Huge greatsword - from there you could ask the party wizard to add an enlarge person a few mintues before the start of combat to add one extra size category.

So, as a Goliath with Monkey Grip and Enlarge Person cast on you, you would be a Large creature capable of wielding Huge weapons without penalties, or Gargantuan weapons with a -2 penalty from Monkey Grip; that's 6d6 damage from the weapon alone, which is pretty neat.

EDIT: Titan bloodlines are in Unearthed Arcana, one of the books the OP has explicitly told us he's not allowed to use.

EDIT EDIT: It ought to be possible to get a magic item with an Enlarge Person (or better) buff spell tied to it, whether command word activated or use activated - you may need a caster's help to create it, but once you have it equipped you'll be able to increase your own size without outside help.

Incorrect

2013-03-20, 07:24 AM

So, as a Goliath with Monkey Grip and Enlarge Person cast on you, you would be a Large creature capable of wielding Huge weapons without penalties, or Gargantuan weapons with a -2 penalty from Monkey Grip; that's 6d6 damage from the weapon alone, which is pretty neat.

Goliath is a monstrous humanoid and does not work with Enlarge Person, so technically you need to research a new spell to make that trick work.

Vezok136

2013-03-20, 07:33 AM

correct me if im wrong, but cant warshaper effectively make you a size category larger, or is that just for natural attacks?

Greenish

2013-03-20, 07:38 AM

correct me if im wrong, but cant warshaper effectively make you a size category larger, or is that just for natural attacks?Just the natural attacks.

Though, Wildshape (especially with Master of Many Forms) could get you a huge or larger shape that can use a weapon.

Gurgeh

2013-03-20, 07:44 AM

Ah, forgot about the monstrous humanoid bit. The only other core spell I can find that increases size is Righteous Might, which is self-only and therefore only available through a magic item - and given that it's a fifth-level spell, that's likely to be extremely costly. Still fun times, though.

killem2

2013-03-20, 07:47 AM

The Magic property "Sizing" could come in handy here as well.

So you aren't limited by whatever particular sword you pick up.

Incorrect

2013-03-20, 07:53 AM

MustacheFart

2013-03-20, 07:54 AM

There's also the fullblade weapon. I forget what book it's in but I believe it's essentially a giant greatsword. I believe it's a large weapon and you'd need a feat to be proficient. So with that + strongarm Bracers + monkey grip + enlarge person would get you a colossal sized weapon. Don't quote me on that though.

hamishspence

2013-03-20, 07:59 AM

That would be Arms & Equipment Guide. Which is 3.0.

The weapon could probably be thought of as a Large bastard sword which (with an exotic weapon proficiency feat) Medium characters can wield two handed.

HunterOfJello

2013-03-20, 07:59 AM

Fullblade from Arms & Equipment Guide is a bastard sword for a large creature that can be used by a medium sized creature with the appropriate Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat. Fullblades are bigger and much harder to wield than Greatswords.

Fullblade stats:
2d8 damage
19-20/x2
Slashing

The fullblade is a somewhat decent weapon to get by taking a feat. It will leave you with both increased damage and a weapon that can't be used by an enemy the same size as you if you lose it. The +2 average damage you will get from it is much better than the +1 average damage of a Bastard Sword.

Greenish

2013-03-20, 08:00 AM

I'm AFB, but I recall something about the feat Jotunbrud from RoF giving you Powerful Build or something similar. If your type is unchanged, you might be able to use Enlarge Person to get the benefit of both, depending on the specific text.Jotunbrud gets you the bonus to opposed rolls, but not larger weapons. It also (by RAW) specifies that you're treated as a Large creature, so Enlarge Person wouldn't stack.

There's also the fullblade weapon.A&EG, but it uses 3.0 weapon size rules.

GreenETC

2013-03-20, 08:08 AM

If you play as a humanoid, you can use the Belt of Growth from the MIC, which lets you get big for 10 minutes straight a day.

Essence_of_War

2013-03-20, 08:11 AM

Assuming core includes XPH since you said all completes which presumably includes Complete Psi, which is thoroughly useless without XPH. :smalltongue:

Basically what Gurgeh said but with psionics:

Be a half-giant psychic warrior.

Manifest Expansion. Augment it if you can. Wield a greatsword.

You're now the size of a Hill Giant, and wielding a sword appropriately sized for a cloud giant. It does a, notably somewhat unimpressive to its size, 4d6 base damage. If you can augment Expansion that gets you to the size of a cloud giant, wielding a sword roughly the size of a Titan's oversized warhammer.

I don't believe monkey grip stacks with any of this, but I think you're already wielding a VERY big sword, and taken feats/races/weapons/powers/classes that are really good choices anyway. Why ruin it with an awful feat like monkey grip? :smallamused:

Gurgeh

2013-03-20, 08:24 AM

I'm not sure I'm able to make the call as to whether or not Monkey Grip stacks with Powerful Build, but if it does then it's definitely worth it. Going from Huge to Gargantuan is an extra 2d6 points of damage, so you've already outstripped the benefit you'd get from an equivalent Power Attack, and if all you care about is the size of the sword then "optimal" isn't really the yardstick you ought to be using anyway.

EDIT: Both Monkey Grip and Powerful Build stack with anything and everything that explicitly increases your size; the sticking point is whether or not they stack with one another.

Essence_of_War

2013-03-20, 08:34 AM

EDIT: Both Monkey Grip and Powerful Build stack with anything and everything that explicitly increases your size; the sticking point is whether or not they stack with one another.

Yeah, that's what I meant to imply.

I'm pretty sure that they don't stack because both of them have language that says "one size larger than YOU" rather than "what you can normally wield".

DarkEternal

2013-03-20, 08:38 AM

It will be fun in dungeons when you won't be able to wield this thing what so ever. I know my DM would do that to me, making it usable only on the outside.

Greenish

2013-03-20, 08:44 AM

It will be fun in dungeons when you won't be able to wield this thing what so ever.The squeezing rules don't actually care about the size of your weapon. A kobold with Strongarm Bracers and Tunnel Fighting feat could use a medium sized glaive in a tunnel sized for diminutive creatures with no penalties. :smalltongue:

Tunnel Fighting is from Races of Stone, and allows you to squeeze into smaller spaces without the attack/AC penalty, so you might want to pick that up.

Lathund

2013-03-20, 08:48 AM

Ooh, a whole bunch of useful replies!

@Greenish: oh, I forgot to mention that: psionics are out too. DM finds it too much of a hassle to dig into that. Nice suggestion though.

I see that Titan bloodline wouldn't help me until pretty late. Since campaigns I've been in never exceeded lvl 15, I don't really want to focus a build on abilities I can't get until late. Also, as Gurgeh noted, it's from UA.

Also, Powerful build and Strongarm bracers don't stack, right? I already mentioned Strongarm bracers in the OP, although I misnamed it (edited now).

Righteous Might might be interesting, if I use this idea for a battlecleric rather than a FB. Or worse, Barb 1/Cleric 9/FB x. Let's think... +4 str from rage, +6 from frenzy, +8 from righteous might, +4 from bull's strength, while wielding a gargantuan greatsword - yikes :smallbiggrin:

Similarly, a druid build towards Master of Many Forms could be interesting. However, 5 levels of druid and 2 levels of MoMF just to get a natural large size without much else that's relevant to this build seems... underwhelming. Not that a druid is by any means a poor class; it's just not what I have in mind.

@Incorrect: I looked up Jotunbrud and it doesn't mention anything about weapons damage dice. It mostly gives you size bonuses in special combat moves (and reading on, I see Greenish already mentioned that).

Fullblade sounds interesting, but also a bit houserule-y. It's never officially been updated to 3.5, is that right? Or is it a universal rule that if you take a one-handed weapon, then switch to a one-size-larger version of it, you can always wield it in two hands?

Belt of growth: nice item! However, as people point out here (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?298060-3-5-Belt-of-Enlarge), it costs a standard action to activate, and for it's price you can buy 60 potions or 4 wands of Enlarge. So hrm.

@Essence of War: I haven't seen any remark that Monkey Grip doesn't stack with any of this. So it mostly sounds like yet another size category more ^^.

Ok, in summary: medium humanoid capable of wielding a large bastardsword (due to EWP), increase to huge bastardsword with Strongarm Bracers, to gargantuan with Monkey grip, then Enlarge (or similar) for a collosal bastardsword. Anyone can tell me the damage dice of that? :P. Also, how many feet of steel are we talking atm?

EDIT: oh, more replies. Will look into Tunnel Fighting, but on first glance it doesn't seem to do anything to the swing space I need for my weapon.

Also, got the point about Strongarm Bracers/Powerful build and Monkey Grip possibly not stacking with each other. Might need to sort that out with my DM before bringing in the rest of the cheese.

hamishspence

2013-03-20, 08:56 AM

Fullblade sounds interesting, but also a bit houserule-y. It's never officially been updated to 3.5, is that right? Or is it a universal rule that if you take a one-handed weapon, then switch to a one-size-larger version of it, you can always wield it in two hands?

It is:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize

Inappropriately Sized Weapons
A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon a -4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.

So, even if Fullblades aren't allowed- you can wield Large bastard swords two-handed: at a -2 penalty, if you have the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat for it.

Gurgeh

2013-03-20, 08:58 AM

Righteous Might is only 4 strength now (errata nerfed it) but it's still pretty crazy.

As Essence of War pointed out, both SAB/PB and MG both specify that they let you wield a weapon one size larger than yourself, so by RAW they won't stack - however I'd probably let it through as a DM, since it's not as if melee is in danger of breaking the game just because its numbers got bigger, and the idea of a PC lugging around a weapon that weighs more than 60 kilograms is pretty hilarious.

As far as size categories go, you can always wield oversized weapons by using them two-handed, etc. For instance, a Medium creature can wield a Large light weapon (such as a short sword) as a one-handed weapon, or a Large one-handed weapon (such as a longsword) as a two-handed weapon. They could also wield a Huge light weapon (short sword again) as a two-handed weapon. In all of these cases they suffer a -2 penalty on attack rolls per size category, so a -2 penalty for the Large short sword/longsword, and a -4 penalty for the Huge short sword.

Greenish

2013-03-20, 08:59 AM

Ok, in summary: medium humanoid capable of wielding a large bastardsword (due to EWP), increase to huge bastardsword with Strongarm Bracers, to gargantuan with Monkey grip, then Enlarge (or similar) for a collosal bastardsword. Anyone can tell me the damage dice of that? :P. Also, how many feet of steel are we talking atm?6d8, and if you wielded it two-handed, you wouldn't need EWP. (If you wanted to take EWP anyway, you should also dip into Exotic Weapon Master from Complete Warrior, and take the Uncanny Blow stunt.)

Will look into Tunnel Fighting, but on first glance it doesn't seem to do anything to the swing space I need for my weapon.As I noted, there are no rules for "swing space" or the like. Tunnel Fighting helps you fight in cramped spaces (which may come in handy if you're enlarged, anyway), so if your DM homebrews rules for swinging large weapons in restricted spaces, you should be able to point to the feat as a mitigating factor.

hamishspence

2013-03-20, 09:02 AM

6d8, and if you wielded it two-handed, you wouldn't need EWP.

You can't wield a two-handed Large weapon without feats though.

And without EWP, a bastard sword is a two-handed weapon.

Lathund

2013-03-20, 09:04 AM

Umm, wait. So according to what hamishspence just links (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize), Monkey Grip reduces the penalty for oversized weapons from -2 to -2? What am I missing here?

Greenish

2013-03-20, 09:08 AM

You can't wield a two-handed Large weapon without feats though.

And without EWP, a bastard sword is a two-handed weapon.Yeah, if you want to wield a size larger weapon sans Monkey Grip.

Umm, wait. So according to what hamishspence just links (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize), Monkey Grip reduces the penalty for oversized weapons from -2 to -2? What am I missing here?Monkey Grip's only benefit is that you can wield a larger weapon without increasing the effort. That is, normally a large one-handed weapon would be two-handed weapon for a medium creature, but with Monkey Grip it remains a one-handed weapon. Similarly, a medium creature without Monkey Grip couldn't wield a large two-handed weapon, since it would go over the scale (light – one-handed – two-handed).

hamishspence

2013-03-20, 09:08 AM

Nothing- that's why Monkey Grip is a horrible feat.

I think though that it allows you to wield the weapon without it's "handedness" changing- so you can wield a Large greatsword, you can wield a Large longsword one-handed, and so on.

I don't have the book to hand though.

EDIT: swordsaged.

Lathund

2013-03-20, 09:18 AM

hamishspence

2013-03-20, 09:20 AM

Yup. I think there might be a way of gaining some exotic racial weapon proficiencies as martial proficiencies.

Greenish

2013-03-20, 09:26 AM

Yup. I think there might be a way of gaining some exotic racial weapon proficiencies as martial proficiencies.If your race has Weapon Familiarity, your DM may allow you to switch it to any other racial weapon (CW). The related passage in CW seems to imply that it's an alternative rule, with the default being that Weapon Familiarity applies to all racial weapons, but no other rules text supports this. CW also has the feat Improved Weapon Familiarity that allows you to treat all the exotic weapons with your race's name on them as martial weapons. Finally, many Eberron books (mainly Races of Eberron) contain racial/regional feats that allow you to treat a set of exotic weapons as martial ones, with some assorted benefits.

herrhauptmann

2013-03-20, 09:29 AM

1)A shame there's no psionics. Why does the DM dislike it? It's like casting spells, just using a mana pool instead of vancian casting. ToB now, that is a new different mechanic, particularly with the prereqs to learn new maneuvers from a school.
2)As stated, Jotunbrud doesn't help. To the one who suggested it: Jotunbrud is not powerful build. I know Greenish said it, but I feel the need to reiterate.
3)Is Dragon magazine is possible? If so, half-minotaur template is utterly broken. +4 str and +2 con if I remember right, unless the template boosts your size, in which case you get the bonuses listed under "Increasing monster size" which means a +12 strength if you use it on a medium size creature. Which is good, it ensures that your weapon doesn't end up as a light load all by itself.
I know you want a medium charcter...
4)Magic of Faerun. Heavy Weapons. They make any given weapon deal damage as if it were one size larger, in exchange for becoming exotic, or perhaps more exotic.
So technically a Heavy Two bladed sword would require EWP twice. Or you use a magic weapon enchantment in complete divine to grant you proficiency with that particular weapon. (Skillful I believe it's called.)
The damage change listed is uses 3.0 weapon sizing rules. I prefer to just use the 3.5 rules for simplicity. Especially when stacking effects like this. Check with your DM.
5)Titan bloodline gives a gargantuan warhammer if I remember right, even if the user is a pixie. Boosting your character size wouldn't give you a colossal warhammer if you have the bloodline. (Heavy gargantuan warhammer might work colossal damage though)

Halfminotaur human. Large size and weapon.
Strongarm bracers. Large size, huge weapon.
Gold weapon. Large size, huge weapon with gargantuan damage.
Monkey grip I guess. Large size, gargantuan weapon with colossal damage.

If someone makes a wand of enlarge monster, you could UMD that for another size boost. Or have the party caster use it on you. Or hope your DM stops being obstinate and lets you use psionics or ToB.

**
I'd recommend against a Frenzied Berserker unless you're building character in a way that guarantees you prevent an accidental TPK.
I'd also recommend against stacking FB with a cleric. It gives you two sets of class abilities that can't be used together. You can't cast while raging/frenzied, and while cleric would boost your will save, who wants to have to make a will save to use their own class abilities?
Have you looked at the Runescarred Berserker in Unapproachable East? It's a tier higher than FB, and it doesn't result in you killing your allies (by accident).

herrhauptmann

2013-03-20, 09:36 AM

Thanks, Greenish!

Just for clarity, instead of EWP and a bastardsword, I could also have a dwarf wield a dwarven waraxe and have the same final result, right?

ADDED: apparently (http://www.medieval-life-and-times.info/medieval-swords-and-armor/bastard-sword.htm), a typical bastard sword is some 44 inch long. Assuming every size increment doubles its length, a collossal bastard sword is almost 60 feet long. That's 12 5-foot-squares :smallbiggrin:
Yes, dwarf and his waraxe is better than a human and his bastard.

Why would it's length double? Because weight doubles?
The bigger weapon is not just longer, but wider and thicker too. So there's no need to double its length. Also, it hurts when you consider what some of these weapons look like after size changes. It's really better that you not look at it too closely.

Eslin

2013-03-20, 09:36 AM

Again, titan bloodline. Gargantuan warhammer.

Anyone know if you can make it colossal somehow?

hamishspence

2013-03-20, 09:40 AM

Again, titan bloodline. Gargantuan warhammer.

He's already said he can't use Unearthed Arcana. I assume he can't use the stuff in Unearthed Arcana that got put in the SRD as well.

4)Magic of Faerun. Heavy Weapons. They make any given weapon deal damage as if it were one size larger, in exchange for becoming exotic, or perhaps more exotic.
So technically a Heavy Two bladed sword would require EWP twice.

I thought you'd only need the one EWP feat?

Like "Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Heavy two-bladed sword"

Though you won't be able to wield normal two-bladed swords properly if you don't take that feat as well.

Why would it's length double? Because weight doubles?
The bigger weapon is not just longer, but wider and thicker too. So there's no need to double its length. Also, it hurts when you consider what some of these weapons look like after size changes. It's really better that you not look at it too closely.

I figure that those represent weapons for creatures close to medium size. Gnomes, for Small (very close to the Medium minimums) Ogres for Large.

Lathund

2013-03-20, 09:48 AM

1)A shame there's no psionics. Why does the DM dislike it?
He considers it too much hassle.

3)Is Dragon magazine is possible?
Nope. Also, I don't necessarily want a medium character; I just don't know of any large playable races without monster HD or LA.

4)Magic of Faerun. Heavy Weapons. They make any given weapon deal damage as if it were one size larger, in exchange for becoming exotic, or perhaps more exotic.
Sweet! And we're playing a Faerun campaign, so I might be able to pull that off. However, I'm starting to worry that a colossal heavy weapon might just be a bit too heavy.

5)Titan bloodline...
UA.

**
I'd recommend against a Frenzied Berserker unless you're building character in a way that guarantees you prevent an accidental TPK.
I'd also recommend against stacking FB with a cleric. It gives you two sets of class abilities that can't be used together. You can't cast while raging/frenzied, and while cleric would boost your will save, who wants to have to make a will save to use their own class abilities?
Have you looked at the Runescarred Berserker in Unapproachable East? It's a tier higher than FB, and it doesn't result in you killing your allies (by accident).
Regarding the TPK: noted, thanks.
Regarding cleric: off the list, although the concept was fun. The nerfed Righteous Might already made me scratch it off :smallsmile:
Runescarred Berserker: I fear the required Wis will lead to MAD. Also, I'm afraid I fail to see its power.

Greenish

2013-03-20, 09:48 AM

The half-minotaur template is just silly, but if you could get it as a base race (stats as if you'd applied the template on a large creature with no stat modifiers or racial features of any sort) it's not too unreasonable. Half-ogre (from the same Dragon mag, not the one from Savage Species or the one from Races of Destiny) with the same trick applied would be weaker still, and still better than RoD half-ogre, though.

Still, applied to non-caster characters, as these things probably would, none of it would be that powerful. This is something best gauged by the DM and the player for each individual PC and campaign.

[Edit]:
I just don't know of any large playable races without monster HD or LA.There are none. For 1st party 3.5, Powerful Build is (at least) +1 LA, and any Large will be +2 (like RoD half-ogre).

Lathund

2013-03-20, 09:50 AM

Yes, dwarf and his waraxe is better than a human and his bastard.

Why would it's length double? Because weight doubles?
The bigger weapon is not just longer, but wider and thicker too. So there's no need to double its length. Also, it hurts when you consider what some of these weapons look like after size changes. It's really better that you not look at it too closely.
Iirc, weights typically increase by a factor 8 when something or someone increases a size. That's congruent with doubled size in all dimensions (2x2x2).

hamishspence

2013-03-20, 09:53 AM

Yup. Not sure why not for Large and Small weapons- hence my hypothesis that they're sized for 8 ft tall Large creatures and 4 ft tall Small creatures (with Medium weapons sized for 6 ft tall Medium creatures.)

(1 and 1/3) cubed = 2.37: which is still a bit more than double.

(3/4) cubed = 0.42: still a bit less than half.

Lathund

2013-03-20, 10:02 AM

The description of Shrink item (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Shrink_Item) also hints in the same direction: 1/16th in all dimensions, effectively reducing the size by 4 categories.

That is to say: with a party wizard capable of casting Shrink Item, I could be fighting with a medium-sized weapon. But that medium-sized weapon is actually my colossal-sized weapon under influence of a Shrink Item spell - returning to its original size as soon as my weapon hits home :smallbiggrin:

herrhauptmann

2013-03-20, 10:03 AM

Again, titan bloodline. Gargantuan warhammer.

Anyone know if you can make it colossal somehow?
Read.

5)Titan bloodline gives a gargantuan warhammer if I remember right, even if the user is a pixie. Boosting your character size wouldn't give you a colossal warhammer if you have the bloodline. (Heavy gargantuan warhammer might work colossal damage though)

Read.

He's already said he can't use Unearthed Arcana. I assume he can't use the stuff in Unearthed Arcana that got put in the SRD as well.

I thought you'd only need the one EWP feat?
Like "Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Heavy two-bladed sword"
Though you won't be able to wield normal two-bladed swords properly if you don't take that feat as well.
I'm honestly not sure. I've been told different things in different games.
Exotics are tricky enough to need a feat. A heavy weapon is tricky enough to need a feat, even when it's a type of weapon you already know.
Logicwise, it seems odd to me that someone can learn an extremely tricky exotic with just one feat, when they don't even know how to use a regular version of the exotic.
The Heavy Weapon entry just mentions needing EWP: Heavy longsword.

So it's sort of up to the DM. Most DMs on the pbp don't care and just say take EWP: Heavy exotic. Some do say you need both feats because doing otherwise is overpowered... :smallconfused:
Best solution is the skillful weapon enchatnment. +1 cost, save yourself one or two feats.

The half-minotaur template is just silly, but if you could get it as a base race (stats as if you'd applied the template on a large creature with no stat modifiers or racial features of any sort) it's not too unreasonableYes it's silly, but oh well. I'm trying to give advice on the rules as they're written. :smallbiggrin: Rather than assuming logic or house rules.

Iirc, weights typically increase by a factor 8 when something or someone increases a size. That's congruent with doubled size in all dimensions (2x2x2).
That's for a person in game, or real life items (And even then, it's not so simple as just doubling thickness and width of a blade, eventually it'll be too heavy to support itself).
For ingame items it's different. Just a flat doubling of weight for each size category change. small, medium, and large. But I don't remember see anything regarding the weights of much smaller or bigger weapons than those 3 categories, so I stick with the doubling of weight.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize
Weight
This column gives the weight of a Medium version of the weapon. Halve this number for Small weapons and double it for Large weapons.

Oh god, stop replying, let me finish my post...

Runescarred Berserker: I fear the required Wis will lead to MAD. Also, I'm afraid I fail to see its power.
14 wisdom isn't exactly MAD inducing, not unless you've got a 24 point buy game or something. (You said you won't hit level 15 or so, so you won't need a much higher wis than that) And a 14 wisdom is useful on a barbarian chassis anyway, particularly with multiclassing and prestige classes.
It's the utility and versatility that the tattoos grant that make it a higher tier than the guy that screams and hits things really hard.

Lathund

2013-03-20, 10:17 AM

Well, assuming a barbarian build, you'll also want decent Str, Con and Dex - the latter two because you'll be tanking in medium armor, with a drop in AC while raging. We're doing 28 point buy, so I could do 16/14/14/14/8/8 at best I think. Versatility is worth something, though.

I need a CA to read the details of a skillfull weapon though. A +2 enhancement equivalent sounds expensive, making it available no sooner than around lvl 8 or 9.

herrhauptmann

2013-03-20, 10:19 AM

I need a CA to read the details of a skillfull weapon though. A +2 enhancement equivalent sounds expensive, making it available no sooner than around lvl 8 or 9.
That's fine, a heavy weapon costs about 9k itself.

DarkEternal

2013-03-20, 10:37 AM

Thanks, Greenish!

Just for clarity, instead of EWP and a bastardsword, I could also have a dwarf wield a dwarven waraxe and have the same final result, right?

ADDED: apparently (http://www.medieval-life-and-times.info/medieval-swords-and-armor/bastard-sword.htm), a typical bastard sword is some 44 inch long. Assuming every size increment doubles its length, a collossal bastard sword is almost 60 feet long. That's 12 5-foot-squares :smallbiggrin:

Reading through this, I can't possibly see how any sensible DM would allow you to wield it without restrictions if you came into a tomb that's not 60 feet long, or in pretty much any other room that is not a big cave or something like that.

Greenish

2013-03-20, 10:50 AM

Reading through this, I can't possibly see how any sensible DM would allow you to wield it without restrictions if you came into a tomb that's not 60 feet long, or in pretty much any other room that is not a big cave or something like that.Relax. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MST3KMantra)

Callin

2013-03-20, 11:01 AM

Since nobody has suggested a weapon from a third party book. Suggest this and then what you want to use wont look so bad LOL.

Bastion Press Torn Asunder Critical Hits has some really awesome weapons and feats in it. Relevant Examples:

Feat
Strong Two-Handed Attack
Str 15+, Dex 15+, Power Attack, Cleave.
When wielding a weapon two handed you add DOUBLE your strength bonus to damage dealt by that weapon.

Weapons (Martial and so OP because they are Martial)
Weighted Greatsword 2d8 18-20x2
(and my fav)
Ogre Maul 2d8 19-20x3 special: Any creature of medium size or smaller struck by a critical hit from an Ogre Maul is thrown backwards in addition to taking the critical damage. Critically hit creatures are flung backwards 10ft, suffering and extra 1d10 hit points of damage in addition to any critical damage suffered. Creatures flung backwards must roll a Reflex (DC 12) or fall prone. Creatures of medium size whose Str score is less than 20 cannot even use this weapon, small sized creatures cannot use this weapon regardless of Str.

Maybe if you convinced the DM to allow em as Exotic Weapons they would work and you could always remind him what is allowed for ya'll are allowed for monsters.

Raendyn

2013-03-20, 11:16 AM

The squeezing rules don't actually care about the size of your weapon. A kobold with Strongarm Bracers and Tunnel Fighting feat could use a medium sized glaive in a tunnel sized for diminutive creatures with no penalties. :smalltongue:

It's no squeezing, its a simple obvious problem called " You can't swing cause the weapon is too big to fit in this 5-feet wide 10feet tall corridor"

As a Dm I have forbid my Goliath barbarian player to swing his gargantuan greataxe in a 10X10 corridor many times, he wasnt too happy, but he agreed that going leap attack in there doesnt make sense. They have used this to their advantage counteless time too.

It could be used like a pole that happens to have axes on both sides 10 cm under it's edge. :elan:

As a rule of thumb I advice anyone not to think like " I can do this because no rule forbids it", better think like "I can't do this, because nowhere in the books it says it can be done."

Raimun

2013-03-20, 11:33 AM

Gavinfoxx

2013-03-20, 11:42 AM

For one thing:

STRONGARM BRACERS, MONKEY GRIP, AND POWERFUL BUILD DO NOT STACK!!!!!

Seriously. I don't know what this thread is getting that stuff from.... but they don't stack!

Anyway, here is a useful thread (note that there aren't any large Alter Self forms for Humanoid)

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7081777

So what you do is you:

-Have access to Enlarge Person, even if it is with 50 gp potions
-Get some Strongarm Bracers
-Get a Large weapon that is already big

I would strongly suggest a Jovar. The rules for that are entirely 3.5e, and it is like 'a bigger greatsword'. It's in... Planar Handbook, I think. Possibly Manual of the Planes. It works wayyyy better than the rules for Fullblade, which don't really work well with 3.5e.

hamishspence

2013-03-20, 11:48 AM

For one thing:

STRONGARM BRACERS, MONKEY GRIP, AND POWERFUL BUILD DO NOT STACK!!!!!

Seriously. I don't know what this thread is getting that stuff from.... but they don't stack!

Strongarm Bracers don't stack with Powerful Build, certainly. The wording of Monkey Grip "wield a weapon one size larger than you are" doesn't exactly fit with stacking either- since it's not "a weapon one size larger than normal"

I would strongly suggest a Jovar. The rules for that are entirely 3.5e, and it is like 'a bigger greatsword'. It's in... Planar Handbook, I think. Possibly Manual of the Planes. It works wayyyy better than the rules for Fullblade, which don't really work well with 3.5e.

It is indeed Planar Handbook (MotP is 3.0).

It actually does no more damage than a Greatsword- what it has- is a better Crit range.

Gavinfoxx

2013-03-20, 12:03 PM

It's visually bigger than a greatsword, though, which is what counts.

Zero grim

2013-03-20, 12:05 PM

Step 1: Be the standard "DMM: Persist Cleric" and cast Giant Size. At high caster level you can become Colossal and remain so for the whole day.

However, your weapon doesn't become Colossal.

Step 2: You need Crafting skills and a lot of metal. Craft a Colossal Greatsword... or Fullblade if you use them. Now you have at least 24 meter (78 feet) long great sword.

You can only use the Colossal Sword while the Persisted Giant Size is on. Hit the sword on the ground at the end of the day, before you're going to rest.

first how do you DMM giant size, that's a wu jen spell, is there a domain that gives it to clerics?

Also Why do you get the idea that your weapons don't grow, giant size specifically states that your equipment grows with you.

the real question here is how big could you get the weapon, complete warrior says that a medium size creature can wield a 50lb item as an improvised two handed weapon, so make a massive adamatine sword that's hollow, you wouldn't really be able to use it as a weapon very well but enemies would believe you had a colossal great sword.

Spiryt

2013-03-20, 12:08 PM

It's visually bigger than a greatsword, though, which is what counts.

To be fair it doesn't actually exist 'visually'.

Which is why, I do think that most sensible thing to do is usually play with greatsword and describe it as really damn large.

Simple and effective.

Gavinfoxx

2013-03-20, 12:10 PM

To be fair it doesn't actually exist 'visually'.

To be fair, there is a drawing of both the greatsword and the jovar in their respective books.

Akto

2013-03-20, 12:10 PM

hamishspence

2013-03-20, 12:16 PM

To be fair, there is a drawing of both the greatsword and the jovar in their respective books.

Might be easier if we saw both weapons, wielded by people both the same size. As it is- we only see weapons compared to other weapons.
Greatsword
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ph35_gallery/PHB35_PG120_WEB.jpg

Jovar
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/planar_gallery/82524.jpg

Spiryt

2013-03-20, 12:17 PM

To be fair, there is a drawing of both the greatsword and the jovar in their respective books.

Drawings of weapons in 3.5 books are usually very terrible, and obviously even if they were much better they would in no possible way be sufficient as visualization of all shapes 'greatsword' or 'greataxe' could have.

Greenish

2013-03-20, 01:32 PM

It's no squeezing, its a simple obvious problem called " You can't swing cause the weapon is too big to fit in this 5-feet wide 10feet tall corridor"

As a Dm I have forbid my Goliath barbarian player to swing his gargantuan greataxe in a 10X10 corridor many times, he wasnt too happy, but he agreed that going leap attack in there doesnt make sense. They have used this to their advantage counteless time too.

It could be used like a pole that happens to have axes on both sides 10 cm under it's edge. :elan:

As a rule of thumb I advice anyone not to think like " I can do this because no rule forbids it", better think like "I can't do this, because nowhere in the books it says it can be done.""I can't use a dagger on a wide open plain, because no book says it can be done."

Yeah, clearly a good rule of thumb there. :smallamused:

Drawings of weapons in 3.5 books are usually very terribleA-bloody-men to that.

Gavinfoxx

2013-03-20, 01:49 PM

hamishspence

2013-03-20, 01:53 PM

Ten foot wide by ten foot tall is a HUGE amount of space to swing weapons... also, just change your grip for close-in fighting... it's not hard, you just grab closer to the tip of the weapon... characters can be assumed to be doing that!

If a greataxe is 4 ft long, a Gargantuan greataxe is 32 ft long.

Not easily usable in a 10x10 corridor.

Raimun

2013-03-20, 03:01 PM

first how do you DMM giant size, that's a wu jen spell, is there a domain that gives it to clerics?

Clerics can cast Miracle. Granted, you need to be level 17 to have 9th level spells but it's still possible.

Also Why do you get the idea that your weapons don't grow, giant size specifically states that your equipment grows with you.

The spell entry in Oriental Adventures specifically states that only mundane clothing grows with you and goes on to note that you may not be able to use weapons effectively.

the real question here is how big could you get the weapon, complete warrior says that a medium size creature can wield a 50lb item as an improvised two handed weapon, so make a massive adamatine sword that's hollow, you wouldn't really be able to use it as a weapon very well but enemies would believe you had a colossal great sword.

I'd rather avoid the attack penalties and just be a Colossal Cleric with a Colossal sword.

hamishspence

2013-03-20, 03:04 PM

The Complete Arcane version, however, states:

"All your equipment changes size with you, allowing you to use weapons or magic items effectively in your giant form."

Raimun

2013-03-20, 03:09 PM

The Complete Arcane version, however, states:

"All your equipment changes size with you, allowing you to use weapons or magic items effectively in your giant form."

Well, in that case, there's no need for step two and my plan is even better.

However, I would still Craft a Colossal sword. I could use it as a bridge when I'm not wielding it.

hamishspence

2013-03-20, 03:22 PM

A being of Colossal size (via that spell) is only 72 ft tall though- it is to Colossal, what 4.5 ft tall would be to Medium.

If you ignore the normal weapon size weight rules (since they only cover Large size) and assume weapons increase in weight 8x per size category, a Colossal greatsword would be 32768 lb.

That's very heavy.

Still, Giant Size (at CL 19- allowing you to reach Colossal) grants you a +32 bonus to Str.

So should be manageable- a Str 42 Colossal biped could lift that sword as a light load easily.

Lathund

2013-03-20, 04:20 PM

Another possibility could also be if you could get a way to acces the spell Enlarge weapon from complete scoundrel, increases weapon size 1 step but without penalties, but your size stays the same. NIce if you want a bigger weapon but hate the hassle of adjusting your scores to your new size (like i do :P )
Just checked, doesn't help :smallannoyed:

If I read it correctly, the spell can only be used on the weapon the original caster is using. Although I guess oils would circumvent that problem, there's also this: it explicitly doesn't stack with the weapon-increasing effect of Enlarge Person.

Raimun

2013-03-20, 04:23 PM