Parrying houserule to give Sword and Board an edge.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I've been playing a lot of Dark Souls and since going Sword and Board is probably the best way to play the game and survive, it got me thinking on how to improve it in 3.5 (and PF too I guess). One of the main reason that having a shield is so damn useful is the ability to parry (which some weapons get; but in my experience is far easier with a shield). Once you parry an enemy you get the chance to riposte them dealing heavy damage.

So in D&D I was thinking on implementing parrying, my first thoughts were that if you were using a shield you could as a free action attempt to parry an opponent's melee attack by doing a parry roll (BAB+Str+Shields' bonus (including magic enhancement bonus) opposing the enemies attack roll. If you beat the check by 5 or more you successfully parried the attack and can attack the enemy, if the attack hit you deal your normal damage (Str, weapon dice, power attack, etc included) x1.5. If the attempt fails your enemy attacks resolves normally.

You have one parry attempt for each attack you get out of your BAB (so TWF, haste and similar effects wouldn't give you more parry attempts).

So what do you think about it?

[Callin]

Check the feats Parry and Riposte

[Dusk Eclipse]

Where can I find them? I've never seen them before.

[Keneth]

There's a bunch of parry and riposte feats in 3.0 and 3.5. A quick search on D&D tools (http://dndtools.eu/feats/) or similar site should give a good idea of what's already there and how you can modify it to suit your needs.

[Rubik]

There's a bunch of parry and riposte feats in 3.0 and 3.5. A quick search on D&D tools (http://dndtools.eu/feats/) or similar site should give a good idea of what's already there and how you can modify it to suit your needs.You should make it standard-issue for anyone using a shield, rather than forcing them to use feats on it.

Heck, all the combat maneuvers ought to not incur AoOs, with the Improved feats granting a bonus and extra attack, like Improved Trip does.

[Dusk Eclipse]

You should make it standard-issue for anyone using a shield, rather than forcing them to use feats on it.

Heck, all the combat maneuvers ought to not incur AoOs, with the Improved feats granting a bonus and extra attack, like Improved Trip does.

This is what I am intending to do with this houserule.

[Callin]

I honestly wish i could remember what book i remember them being in first. However i did find them in Legends and Lairs Seafarers Handbook.

Parry
Dex 13, BaB +3, Expertise
On your action you may choose to hold one or more of your normal attacks until an opponent attacks. The opponent rolls his attack normally to determine if he hits. If he succeeds, you may then make an opposed attack roll against a DC equal to your opponents final attack result. If you succeed you have parried the blow and struck your opponents weapon. Using parry does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If at the end of the round you have any unused parry actions they are lost and may not be transferred to the next round.

Riposte
BaB +6, Parry
If you made a successful parry this round, you may make a free melee attack against the opponent you parried. The attack is at your HIGHEST attack bonus and all normal modifiers apply. No matter how many parries you have made you may make no more than one riposte per round, unless you are affected by magic items or spells that increase the number of actions you may make in a round, such as haste or boots of speed.

*emphasis mine: gives your lower BaB attacks a much better use

[Callin]

I was saying to use them as a guidline

[Hunter Noventa]

I'd suggest a feat that lets you turn your attacks of opportunity into parries, though I guess sword and board limits how many of those you get, since you need both a high dex and combat reflexes to get more than one...

[LeshLush]

This idea sounds like it could apply equally well to two weapon fighting.

[Andreaz]

Giving up attacks to shore up AC hasn't worked well in the past. Rolling more just to resolve any given attack doesn't please me either.

Suggestion of changes!
1) Anyone armed may parry #iterative times per round instead of using AC. TWF gets a small bonus, Shields get a larger bonus(and may use their enhancement like weapons would).


Small Shields and Large Shields get the following:
2) Using a shield eases your weapon maneuvering, granting you 1 extra attack per round at full bab.
2.1) Alternatively, such attack is the shield's, as was commonly seen IRL. Making the Shield Bash enablers(retaining AC, avoiding penalties) baseline works here.
3) (rule: Two-Weapon Fighting has only one enabler feat: To open iteratives on off-hand) Attacking with the shield obeys TWF but with no penalties if it's a Light shield.
4) Shields add their magical enhancement bonus to Fortitude and Reflexes. A +1 property adds the base bonus as well. Making it a Resistance bonus opens an item slot, making it a Shield bonus gives you crazy saves. I prefer Resistance.

[The Dark Fiddler]

my first thoughts were that if you were using a shield you could...

I two-hand the shield.

[Zanthy1]

I've been playing a lot of Dark Souls and since going Sword and Board is probably the best way to play the game and survive, it got me thinking on how to improve it in 3.5 (and PF too I guess). One of the main reason that having a shield is so damn useful is the ability to parry (which some weapons get; but in my experience is far easier with a shield). Once you parry an enemy you get the chance to riposte them dealing heavy damage.

So in D&D I was thinking on implementing parrying, my first thoughts were that if you were using a shield you could as a free action attempt to parry an opponent's melee attack by doing a parry roll (BAB+Str+Shields' bonus (including magic enhancement bonus) opposing the enemies attack roll. If you beat the check by 5 or more you successfully parried the attack and can attack the enemy, if the attack hit you deal your normal damage (Str, weapon dice, power attack, etc included) x1.5. If the attempt fails your enemy attacks resolves normally.

You have one parry attempt for each attack you get out of your BAB (so TWF, haste and similar effects wouldn't give you more parry attempts).

So what do you think about it?

I like this, but I think that a minor change i would make is that if you fail by more than 5, your opponent gets the additional damage you normally would have gotten. Or something along those lines. Its not penalizing you for trying, its penalizing you for failing.

Imagine you are fighting and move your shield to block an oncoming sword. If you miss by more than 5 (this number is just a suggestion) then you over reach your shield and the sword makes contact, the attack is going to hit a little harder because of the almost weakened state you are in, as you put more effort into parrying the attack than just normally trying to take the hit.

I feel like my last idea got a little muddled while typing it, if you need I can try again lol

[Andreaz]

That's needlessly complicated. Just make it binary like AC.

[Amnestic]

Give people a miss chance against melee/ranged attacks (but not touch attacks) while using a sword+board equal to...say...double the AC of the shield? As I understand it, miss chance is rather desirable, and a straight up miss chance is a lot less ponderous during a turn than your current plan.

[NinjaInTheRye]

5% miss chance per point of AC the shield provides (including magical enhancement, I usually increase the base AC of Light, Heavy, and Tower shields by 1 each as well).

You could add in a feat or magic enhancement that lets you make an AoO or immediate action attack against someone who misses you due to a shield's miss chance.

[Spuddles]

I'd just have it so that attacks against you that miss provoke attacks of opportunity. You don't get any extra attacks of opportunity or anything.

The problem with sword-and-board is lost damage (str, power attack) for a trivial amount of AC at higher levels.

If you got your BAB in miss chance when wielding a shield (not a buckler or tower shield), that would be pretty neat.

Make sure these benefits don't apply to animated shields.

[Seharvepernfan]

I've got a system for Parry and Riposte in my houserules. Check the link.