Spell seed-like magic system

[RealMarkP]

Is there a magic system that gives you the components, such magical spell seeds, and it's up to the player to combine them to create magic (Similar to epic spell seeds and how you can create new magic at epic levels)?

[WhatBigTeeth]

Do Words of Power (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/words-of-power) count?

[RealMarkP]

Do Words of Power (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/words-of-power) count?

Indeed. This looks like a cool system. Any experience with it?

[WhatBigTeeth]

Indeed. This looks like a cool system. Any experience with it?
I haven't used any characters with it, but I've played in two games with players who've used it on a blaster sorcerer, a ranger and a bard.

The variant really seemed to do nice things for the sorcerer, who was able to reliably use a variety of the *good* blasting spells - ones with add-on effects and ways to sneak around resistances. Most of his utility came from summons; I don't know whether that's because summons are the best problem-solvers in the Words of Power toolbox, or whether they're just the tools the player liked, but they seemed to work well for him.

The ranger was built after its player saw the sorcerer in play, and wanted to try dabbling with the system as well. The character flopped pretty hard. Its build was even focused on casting, with two archetypes to gain spells and to cast them more readily, but its spell words just sucked, and the mechanism gave it conspicuously more limited choices than selecting spells from the normal ranger list.

I can't recall the bard doing anything differently with the variant than a bard would without it, so I'm not sure what I can say about that one. Looking at the bard words list, it does look like it gets a bit of a bum deal by losing access to some bard effects, but the ones it could access weren't necessarily weaker, and any change in power level wasn't noticeable in play.

You might check out the Words of Power handbook here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205030) and the subsequent thread for feedback on how WoP works and how to use it from someone who probably has more hands-on experience with it than I do.

[RealMarkP]

Thanks, WhatBigTeeth.

I've also run into an excerpt of True Sorcery, which has a variable system similar to words of power. Has anyone had any experience with this system? It seems complex and I'm wondering if the added overhead of bookkeeping kills the game?

[Firest Kathon]

Indeed. This looks like a cool system. Any experience with it?

I'm currently running a blaster sorcerer with it, but we have only reached level 2 so far so no experience about higher levels. There are some things WoP do better, some they do worse than normal casting. My general take is that ranges and durations are generally speaking lower than comparable spells.

"Mass" versions of words are always 3 levels above the single-target words, which is about the same with spells. However, any word that targets a creature (uses the Selected target word) can be cast either as a melee touch spell or a ranged touch spell with close range - so no reason to go into melee combat with your spells.

There are some pretty cool combinations you can do: A Lengthy Selected Boosted Fade is 2 rounds of improved invisibility for one target - at 1st level. Costs you two meta words though, so you need a feat or be 4th level to pull it off. Also, the WoP version of Haste (Accelerate) grants an additional move action instead of the additional attack (which is available as an options), which I think any melee character without pounce will love.

So, good and bad sides. My recommendation is: think about what you want to do, check out the appropriate words and compare them with the normal spells to see how they fare.