[3.5] Is Adaptive Style Necessary?

[Twilightwyrm]

I am well aware of the importance of Adaptive Style to any successful swordsage, and indeed, pretty much any cross-class build that makes use of it to any significant degree (to the point that it really is a feat tax). I was wondering however, in the case of a build as follows:
Barbarian 3/Totemist 3/Swordsage 3/Totem Rager 10/Exotic Weapon Master 1

In a case such as this, where Swordsage is taking up a comparatively small part of the build, and where maneuvers will be likely be of somewhat diminished importance, whether I should bother taking Adaptive Style. On the one hand, being able to refresh the admittedly small selection of maneuvers available to me on the fly would be much appreciated, on the other hand, I expect a lot of my damage output coming from my chakra binds, and Leap Attack. Hence I come here for advice on whether or not this should be included in my build, and if so, how long I should delay before getting it. Any feedback would be helpful, including I supposed advice on the build itself if anyone is so inclined. I am, however, mostly worried about the feat, as the character is already strapped for feats the way it is, and flaws are not going to be available to him.

[Namfuak]

It's probably not necessary in a build like that, unless there is some swordsage maneuver that you plan on using more than once in an encounter. Effectively, the problem is that having to spend a full round action doing effectively nothing is a big waste of time when combat may take only 5-6 rounds tops. In a build like that, I doubt you plan on relying on maneuvers, so it seems like adaptive style would not be of as much benefit for you.

[Devmaar]

I'm currently playing a character that is partly Swordsage and so far adaptive style hasn't been good for anything other than being able to say I only need a full-round action when the psion needs 8 hours rest.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I wouldn't take it for such a minor dip.
I usually just take the save maneuvers though and mountain hammer + shadow jaunt + whatever for a little bit of out of combat utility where it's unlikely that you can't afford the 5 minutes to replace maneuvers.

[WhatBigTeeth]

Unless you know WRT, Adaptive Style is still a pretty crummy recovery mechanic. I've neglected it on my last few swordsages, and haven't regretted the decision.

[Twilightwyrm]

I see. I thank everyone for the suggestions (even if I am a bit late on getting back about it). This makes me wonder though, since combat is generally only lasting about 5-6 rounds, how much of a dip into Swordsage really justifies adding Adaptive Style? I mean, you go through maneuvers as a straight Swordsage, or a primarily Swordsage character, that it becomes necessary, but say in the case of a Jade Phoenix Mage build that uses Swordsage rather than Crusader; would Adaptive Style really be necessary in an instance where you will typically have a good number of spells that you would rather be using than wasting a turn regaining spent maneuvers?

[Person_Man]

Barbarian 3/Totemist 3/Swordsage 3/Totem Rager 10/Exotic Weapon Master 1

Any feedback would be helpful.

No, you don't need Adaptive Style. Swordsages start out each combat with a good selection of readied maneuvers. While it's nice to be able to quickly change them out, it's certainly not necessary unless you're going with a build that's primarily Swordsage.

For the build itself, I would say that:

1) Swordsage doesn't synergize well with Totem Rager. Totem Rager requires, +5 BAB, Totemist, and Rage. It then progresses 8/10 of your meldshaping, opens up the mid-range Chakra binds (crown, feet, hands, arms, brow, shoulders), gives you extra essentia and slightly better Cobolt Rage Feat capacity when you rage, gives you +1 Totem essentia capacity as a capstone, plus a few other minor benefits.

2) Any Totem Rager build does not do well above ECL 16. If you played as a strait Totemist or Incarnate or Whatever/Necrocarnate, you'd gain access to the more potent Waist, Throat, Heart, and (potentially) Soul chakra binds, and you'd probably have considerably more essentia, soulmelds, and chakra binds. Your build is even weaker, in that your 6 levels of Barbarian and Swordsage delays access to Crown/Feet/Hands until ECL 13 (when you normally get them at ECL 2/4 or 5) and delays access to Arms/Brow/Shoulders until ECL 18 (when you normally get them at ECL 9).


So, for a low-mid level build, some sort of Totemist/Swordsage would probably synergize well. But Barbarian/Totemist/Swordsage/Totem Rager/Exotic Weapon Master does not really work well.

[Twilightwyrm]

No, you don't need Adaptive Style. Swordsages start out each combat with a good selection of readied maneuvers. While it's nice to be able to quickly change them out, it's certainly not necessary unless you're going with a build that's primarily Swordsage.

For the build itself, I would say that:

1) Swordsage doesn't synergize well with Totem Rager. Totem Rager requires, +5 BAB, Totemist, and Rage. It then progresses 8/10 of your meldshaping, opens up the mid-range Chakra binds (crown, feet, hands, arms, brow, shoulders), gives you extra essentia and slightly better Cobolt Rage Feat capacity when you rage, gives you +1 Totem essentia capacity as a capstone, plus a few other minor benefits.

2) Any Totem Rager build does not do well above ECL 16. If you played as a strait Totemist or Incarnate or Whatever/Necrocarnate, you'd gain access to the more potent Waist, Throat, Heart, and (potentially) Soul chakra binds, and you'd probably have considerably more essentia, soulmelds, and chakra binds. Your build is even weaker, in that your 6 levels of Barbarian and Swordsage delays access to Crown/Feet/Hands until ECL 13 (when you normally get them at ECL 2/4 or 5) and delays access to Arms/Brow/Shoulders until ECL 18 (when you normally get them at ECL 9).


So, for a low-mid level build, some sort of Totemist/Swordsage would probably synergize well. But Barbarian/Totemist/Swordsage/Totem Rager/Exotic Weapon Master does not really work well.

Yes, I figured that Swordsage might indeed be hampering my build. I would use less, or none at all, but I was trying to keep some vestige of his Swordsage training I gained during the campaign (and since this is an Draconic Elf, I cannot simply have a 1st level dip and never come back to the class again), in part for plot reasons, in part because I suspect the DM would be a bit cross with me if the Swordsage temple he went out of his way to set up for this character's training purposes ended up being essentially pointless. Exotic Weapon Master is, in this case, just there to help increase PA damage.
Now, if you have some suggestions for a good build for a hybrid Swordsage and Barbarian, I'm all ears (as I'd strictly prefer such a build to a Totem Rager, interesting as the character concept would be).