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killer_monk
2013-03-20, 10:12 PM
Admittedly, I haven't played table-top RPGs for a very long time. Not that I didn't want to, it's just that I'm not pre 90s old. But that doesn't mean I don't like my Table-Tops. My Dad was a AD&D player back in the 80s, and I was hearing his stories from the moment I understood english.

But recently I've hit a serious bump in my RPG-life. I started on AD&D, played 4e(garbage), jumped to 2e, and then studied a little 3.5 before signing on for Next.

My problem is that I hate 4e, and the most recent Next release. I like it when you actually role-play, instead of just blurting numbers like a card game.
I've read enough of 3.5 to know I would like it, but maybe not love it.

So I've come to the playground for a simple, yet not so simple, question: What RPG should I play?

I've heard nothing but wonderful things about Pathfinder. Should I try it? Is it really that great?

I don't have much interest in Sci-Fi setting, I'm a fantasy guy. So what would you shining example of humanity commonly known as the playground community suggest taking a chance with?

Grod_The_Giant
2013-03-20, 10:17 PM
Pathfinder is basically 3.5. Some individual things are better, but system and feel-wise they're pretty much the same thing.

The Fate system is pretty excellent for roleplaying. The Dresden Files RPG (which is Fate based) is a phenomenal system for urban fantasy, and it's easy enough to file off serial numbers/ignore setting-specific mechanics and use it for a more generic game. Fate Core is coming out soon, the newest edition of said system.

Slipperychicken
2013-03-20, 11:06 PM
Obviously, the choice of what to play depends on what you value in a game. It's always good to experiment with other systems to understand what appeals to you, and what sort of game will best accommodate your style and tastes.



I've read enough of 3.5 to know I would like it, but maybe not love it.

So I've come to the playground for a simple, yet not so simple, question: What RPG should I play?

I've heard nothing but wonderful things about Pathfinder. Should I try it? Is it really that great?

I'm in a PF game, myself, and it's a good system for what it tries to do. It fixed a few of 3.5's problems, and has a slightly different feel. You can easily use 3.5 material in a PF game (which was one of PF's unofficial design goals) if anything from those dozens of splatbooks catches your eye.


I'm not so sure what you mean about the "blurting numbers" complaint. Could you elaborate on that?

ArcturusV
2013-03-20, 11:50 PM
Yeah, not sure what that means either. Would it mean something like calling out "I roll Diplomacy. 34 result."? Because that tends to be a problem in 3.5 as well. It's mostly a player specific problem though. And can easily be solved by a few simple steps.

One of my favorites for Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate sort of things? I just tell them, "If you can describe unto me what you're doing/how, and it's good, you'll get a bonus."

Bonuses are nice. People like bonuses. Even people who might otherwise just go "I roll Diplomacy", will act out if it gives them a bonus.

UNLESS, and this is a bad one, UNLESS they think they are assured victory. This is a problem with Diplomacy in particular, as the skill basically cannot be seriously failed by anyone who is built to use it by level... I think 3? It's pretty early on. So they might get lazy because they'll look at the DCs in the book, their skill ranks/bonuses. Go "Pssh, I can't lose!" and they'll get lazy again and say "I roll Diplomacy, oh look, 28."

As for system stuff? Might want to check out Anima: Beyond Fantasy. The stock setting in it doesn't really appeal to me too much. But it's high fantasy sort of stuff. Has some decent balance in it.

Malrone
2013-03-21, 12:21 AM
I've played 3.5 and Pathfinder. Pathfinder fixed some of the mechanical bugs with 3.5, and adjusted a few other things, so that's nice.

If the crunch is something that bothers you, I'd say looking into Vampirie: The Masquerade [2nd Revised] is worthwhile. The stock theme is modern-gothic, if that's your thing, and the rules aren't as explicit about every Little THING. Just keep the munchkins away, as everything is broke in its own way, and you'll do fine.

Ozreth
2013-03-21, 12:24 AM
Why not back to AD&D?

Fighter1000
2013-03-21, 01:03 AM
You should try making up your own system. It won't be easy, but it will be perfectly fitted to what you want.
If that fails, I suggest D&D 3.5 or Pathfinder.
I agree with you on the 4th edition thing. It sucks donkey balls.
Too much meta-game, not enuf realism.

Driderman
2013-03-21, 02:14 AM
Have you considering trying something other than variations of D&D? There are plenty of other great systems out there, after all. Most of them a lot more rules-light than D&D too.
Maybe try out Savage Worlds (always my first suggestion) or pick up one of the Conan-esque games that have popped up these last couple of years (Barbarians of Lemuria, Riddle of Steel, etc, etc).
If you want something a bit more rules intensive, maybe try GURPS?

Sidmen
2013-03-21, 02:34 AM
My first suggestion for a light(er) system is Dragon Age (http://greenronin.com/dragon_age/) for a RPG with a D&D feel but a little more Roleplay-intensive. Its mechanics are simple to learn and it is painted with broad brush strokes instead of rigid beep-boop precision for every little thing.

Another suggestion would be for the various iterations of the Storyteller system by Whitewolf. New World of Darkness (http://www.white-wolf.com/new-world-of-darkness), though being incredibly over-written (it repeats itself too much, and takes pages where a paragraph would do), is probably my favorite system out there. Really mechanics light, and requires more descriptive roleplay than any other system I've played (granted, that's not many).

Second Edition Exalted, which is spawned off the same engine as nWoD has my favorite fantasy setting - but I hate its mechanics implementation. Hopefully in a few months or so we'll see Third Edition out with those things sorted, in which case I'd recommend you check that out.

Asmodai
2013-03-21, 10:46 AM
I have to second Exalted being an amazing setting and an amazing idea how to play a game. The rules of the second edition are about as bad as shooting yourself in the leg repeateadly, but A) First Edition works and is dirt cheap B) Third edition will be out soon and is looking to be pretty damn good right now. The developers just grok what went wrong with the second edition.

Ozfer
2013-03-21, 11:01 AM
Pathfinder is cool, but if it's also identical to DnD in terms of roleplay-viability. As someone mentioned earlier, Fate is a great system for roleplay, but it also tends to lack in realistic combat. If you want a very roleplay based game, Fate for the win.

...But, if you are willing to add some complexity to the table, The Burning Wheel facilitates amazing roleplay, on the same level as Fate, but with more realistic and interesting mechanics.

Jay R
2013-03-21, 03:37 PM
Play what you've enjoyed most. That appears to be AD&D.

Hendel
2013-03-22, 02:41 PM
I really like Pathfinder but I would play AD&D again if my group did. It had enough vagueness to allow for role-play and in a pinch the DM could have you roll some dice if you can't figure out the problem or whatever.

3rd edition and beyond really codified what you can do and cannot do. It may limit role-play but only if your group desires that. I give huge bonuses to Diplomacy check or skip it all together if a player really gets into character.

It is up to your tastes and that of the folks you with which you play. My two favorites would be Pathfinder and AD&D.

Mordar
2013-03-22, 02:56 PM
My problem is that I hate 4e, and the most recent Next release. I like it when you actually role-play, instead of just blurting numbers like a card game.

Well, this may not be what you were looking for in terms of advice, but perhaps it will be helpful.

Virtually every game can be reduced to "just blurting out numbers", from tried and true old guards (like AD&D) to the newest indie game (so long as it isn't a diceless game, anyway). The system does not determine your opportunity to role-play. Some systems may encourage it through direct reward (7th Sea, Deadlands, Fate/Fudge), but even in those cases, you can still be a dice-bot.

If it is a mechanical issue you're having, as in "why doesn't the system/GM reward clever use of terrain and description to enhance my ability to be successful on this maneuver?" you might like to try a 7th Sea-style game (or Feng Shui!).

If you're feeling limited by the structure of the game (people using DnD 4e powers as verbs, for instance, or people just chucking dice and saying "I attack" instead of something with more flair), recognize that every game can have that problem, and the solution lies in discussing it with your group...or finding another group (often much easier said than done).

In short, even the most codified of games doesn't change your ability to invest personality, goals and aspirations into your character, or your chance to influence the world around you through your interactions. Even if the system defines how to do X, you choose how, when and where to employ X...and if you don't like X, there's always Y, Z and so on.

- M (you can't employ M...but all the rest of the letters are available :smallsmile:)

killer_monk
2013-04-01, 10:46 AM
Alright, sorry for the delayed response everyone. I posted this before spring break and just returned to school today. speaking of spring break, I hope all of you who had a spring break had a good one!:smallsmile:


Pathfinder is basically 3.5. Some individual things are better, but system and feel-wise they're pretty much the same thing.

The Fate system is pretty excellent for roleplaying. The Dresden Files RPG (which is Fate based) is a phenomenal system for urban fantasy, and it's easy enough to file off serial numbers/ignore setting-specific mechanics and use it for a more generic game. Fate Core is coming out soon, the newest edition of said system.

I actually got to really play PF over spring-break. I really enjoy it and have no complaints about the system. It gives ample role-play chance as well as a sturdy combat system. I think i'll play this from now on.

As for Fate, i wiki'd it and i think i'd be interested in trying it sometime. Maybe i could even convince my normal group to give it a try? who knows.


Obviously, the choice of what to play depends on what you value in a game. It's always good to experiment with other systems to understand what appeals to you, and what sort of game will best accommodate your style and tastes.



I'm in a PF game, myself, and it's a good system for what it tries to do. It fixed a few of 3.5's problems, and has a slightly different feel. You can easily use 3.5 material in a PF game (which was one of PF's unofficial design goals) if anything from those dozens of splatbooks catches your eye.


I'm not so sure what you mean about the "blurting numbers" complaint. Could you elaborate on that?

I spoke to my group about the "blurting numbers" issue. What i meant was as the following:

GM: You walk to the towns entrance only to have your way barred by a gaurd.

PC: Bluff, 34.

this is an issue and is actually kind of annoying how little effort they were putting into it. Hopefully this won't happen in the future.


Yeah, not sure what that means either. Would it mean something like calling out "I roll Diplomacy. 34 result."? Because that tends to be a problem in 3.5 as well. It's mostly a player specific problem though. And can easily be solved by a few simple steps.

One of my favorites for Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate sort of things? I just tell them, "If you can describe unto me what you're doing/how, and it's good, you'll get a bonus."

Bonuses are nice. People like bonuses. Even people who might otherwise just go "I roll Diplomacy", will act out if it gives them a bonus.

UNLESS, and this is a bad one, UNLESS they think they are assured victory. This is a problem with Diplomacy in particular, as the skill basically cannot be seriously failed by anyone who is built to use it by level... I think 3? It's pretty early on. So they might get lazy because they'll look at the DCs in the book, their skill ranks/bonuses. Go "Pssh, I can't lose!" and they'll get lazy again and say "I roll Diplomacy, oh look, 28."

As for system stuff? Might want to check out Anima: Beyond Fantasy. The stock setting in it doesn't really appeal to me too much. But it's high fantasy sort of stuff. Has some decent balance in it.

I introduced a +10 to any check that was correctly role-played. thanks for the advice! it really helped!

I haven't had a chance to look up Anima: Beyond Fantasy, could you explain the premise of the game?


I've played 3.5 and Pathfinder. Pathfinder fixed some of the mechanical bugs with 3.5, and adjusted a few other things, so that's nice.

If the crunch is something that bothers you, I'd say looking into Vampirie: The Masquerade [2nd Revised] is worthwhile. The stock theme is modern-gothic, if that's your thing, and the rules aren't as explicit about every Little THING. Just keep the munchkins away, as everything is broke in its own way, and you'll do fine.

I'm a munchkin (unfortunately), but only to a certain extent. Best keep away the temptation though.



Why not back to AD&D?

I still play a little 1e every now and again, just not like i used to. It's really hard to find i group who's interested in 1e, and I'm enjoying PF just as much as 1e. It's rules could be a little confusing at times.


You should try making up your own system. It won't be easy, but it will be perfectly fitted to what you want.
If that fails, I suggest D&D 3.5 or Pathfinder.
I agree with you on the 4th edition thing. It sucks donkey balls.
Too much meta-game, not enuf realism.

Yeah, I guess i could take that route, but i wanted to at least give PF a fair chance. Glad I did and thanks for the recommendation!

Pretty sure i could polish a turd faster than i could fix 4e.


Have you considering trying something other than variations of D&D? There are plenty of other great systems out there, after all. Most of them a lot more rules-light than D&D too.
Maybe try out Savage Worlds (always my first suggestion) or pick up one of the Conan-esque games that have popped up these last couple of years (Barbarians of Lemuria, Riddle of Steel, etc, etc).
If you want something a bit more rules intensive, maybe try GURPS?

What's savage world's? Any good?


My first suggestion for a light(er) system is Dragon Age (http://greenronin.com/dragon_age/) for a RPG with a D&D feel but a little more Roleplay-intensive. Its mechanics are simple to learn and it is painted with broad brush strokes instead of rigid beep-boop precision for every little thing.

Another suggestion would be for the various iterations of the Storyteller system by Whitewolf. New World of Darkness (http://www.white-wolf.com/new-world-of-darkness), though being incredibly over-written (it repeats itself too much, and takes pages where a paragraph would do), is probably my favorite system out there. Really mechanics light, and requires more descriptive roleplay than any other system I've played (granted, that's not many).

Second Edition Exalted, which is spawned off the same engine as nWoD has my favorite fantasy setting - but I hate its mechanics implementation. Hopefully in a few months or so we'll see Third Edition out with those things sorted, in which case I'd recommend you check that out.

I'll seriously consider Dragon Age. But what the setting for Second Edition Exalted that makes it so great?


I have to second Exalted being an amazing setting and an amazing idea how to play a game. The rules of the second edition are about as bad as shooting yourself in the leg repeateadly, but A) First Edition works and is dirt cheap B) Third edition will be out soon and is looking to be pretty damn good right now. The developers just grok what went wrong with the second edition.

So, would i be better off trying to get this at my local comic book/book store or online?


Pathfinder is cool, but if it's also identical to DnD in terms of roleplay-viability. As someone mentioned earlier, Fate is a great system for roleplay, but it also tends to lack in realistic combat. If you want a very roleplay based game, Fate for the win.

...But, if you are willing to add some complexity to the table, The Burning Wheel facilitates amazing roleplay, on the same level as Fate, but with more realistic and interesting mechanics.

How does Burning Wheel change it up?


Play what you've enjoyed most. That appears to be AD&D.

It was a great system, but I'm trying to get a little more tabletop experience than just D&D.


I really like Pathfinder but I would play AD&D again if my group did. It had enough vagueness to allow for role-play and in a pinch the DM could have you roll some dice if you can't figure out the problem or whatever.

3rd edition and beyond really codified what you can do and cannot do. It may limit role-play but only if your group desires that. I give huge bonuses to Diplomacy check or skip it all together if a player really gets into character.

It is up to your tastes and that of the folks you with which you play. My two favorites would be Pathfinder and AD&D.

Yeah, it always comes down to majority vote. I'm just glad my group was willing to try PF. And I completely agree in terms of what can and cannot be done.

Also, I was sad to see the PF version of Time stop. I was used to the AD&D version, so it was kind of appalling how nerfed it was.:smalleek:


Well, this may not be what you were looking for in terms of advice, but perhaps it will be helpful.

Virtually every game can be reduced to "just blurting out numbers", from tried and true old guards (like AD&D) to the newest indie game (so long as it isn't a diceless game, anyway). The system does not determine your opportunity to role-play. Some systems may encourage it through direct reward (7th Sea, Deadlands, Fate/Fudge), but even in those cases, you can still be a dice-bot.

If it is a mechanical issue you're having, as in "why doesn't the system/GM reward clever use of terrain and description to enhance my ability to be successful on this maneuver?" you might like to try a 7th Sea-style game (or Feng Shui!).

If you're feeling limited by the structure of the game (people using DnD 4e powers as verbs, for instance, or people just chucking dice and saying "I attack" instead of something with more flair), recognize that every game can have that problem, and the solution lies in discussing it with your group...or finding another group (often much easier said than done).

In short, even the most codified of games doesn't change your ability to invest personality, goals and aspirations into your character, or your chance to influence the world around you through your interactions. Even if the system defines how to do X, you choose how, when and where to employ X...and if you don't like X, there's always Y, Z and so on.

- M (you can't employ M...but all the rest of the letters are available :smallsmile:)

How does 7th sea work? what makes it different/special?

Alright guys, thanks for the advice given thus far and i anxiously await your reply's.

On a side note, could anybody answer a few questions i have in regards to PF's rules?

True-Strike's +20 insight bonus is just a fancy way of saying you get an attack bonus, right?

If I have 11 levels in wizard and 10 levels in Eldritch Knight, where do the extra spells levels go? Technically i'd have the spells of a 21st level wizard, but the spells stop at 20. what do i do?

If I have 3 levels in Magus, an Arcane casting class, and 2 levels in wizard, another arcane casting class. would i be able to take "craft magic arms and armor" that's meant for 5th level casters? My ECL would be 5, and both classes are arcane casting classes, so what do i do in this case?

Tsriel
2013-04-01, 01:17 PM
Alright guys, thanks for the advice given thus far and i anxiously await your reply's.

On a side note, could anybody answer a few questions i have in regards to PF's rules?

True-Strike's +20 insight bonus is just a fancy way of saying you get an attack bonus, right?

If I have 11 levels in wizard and 10 levels in Eldritch Knight, where do the extra spells levels go? Technically i'd have the spells of a 21st level wizard, but the spells stop at 20. what do i do?

If I have 3 levels in Magus, an Arcane casting class, and 2 levels in wizard, another arcane casting class. would i be able to take "craft magic arms and armor" that's meant for 5th level casters? My ECL would be 5, and both classes are arcane casting classes, so what do i do in this case?

1) Basically, yes. It's a +20 to your next attack roll made before the end of your next turn. The reason why it's called an insight bonus is because bonuses of the same type do not stack (with the exception of dodge and untyped bonuses).

2) The spell tree stops at lvl 20. At 21 level, you're getting into epic tier. I am not entirely certain that Pathfinder has such rules for epic teir play yet, but referencing to 3.5 Epic Level Handbook (since the two systems are practically compatible), epic level spells are based on Spellcraft. Generally speaking, the higher your check, the more powerful spells you can research & develop as well as cast.

3) You would qualify for the Feat Craft Magic Arms & Armor not on the basis that you're a level 5 character, but because you have 5 levels based on the combined number of caster levels (Magus accounts for 3, Wizard for 2). On a side note, this isn't a very good way to start an artificer build.

Mordar
2013-04-01, 04:36 PM
How does 7th sea work? what makes it different/special?

Though it has been a bit since I've played, making use of the terrain/situation to enhance the (melo)drama of the scene is specifically to be rewarded by the gamemaster, either through beneficial modifiers to the skill check, clear enhancement of the results, or through the award of game tokens (that can be used to modify future rolls, allow rerolls or the like).

In short, if you're in a 7th Sea game and someone says "I attack the thug", they're doing it wrong. You should set a good example by saying "I leap to the ship's railing and dive towards the water. Catching hold of one of the trailing sail lines, I use it to swing up and over the railing of the aftcastle, kicking the two pirates over the side and into the ocean." It'll still take a roll (and assumes you're the right kind of character for such a move), but so long as the pirates you're booting aren't the honcho and his number one guy, odds are good you'll succeed *because* you made it cinematic.

Feng Shui turns that idea up a notch or two...in 7th Sea, you might have had to know there was already rope lines trailing below the railing, either from the GM description or because you asked. In Feng Shui, don't ask. There is a rule (maybe even official :smallbiggrin:) that says if you have to ask, it isn't there. You simply incorporate any reasonably-appropriate items into the action and *poof*, there they are!

- M

killer_monk
2013-04-01, 04:40 PM
1) Basically, yes. It's a +20 to your next attack roll made before the end of your next turn. The reason why it's called an insight bonus is because bonuses of the same type do not stack (with the exception of dodge and untyped bonuses).

2) The spell tree stops at lvl 20. At 21 level, you're getting into epic tier. I am not entirely certain that Pathfinder has such rules for epic teir play yet, but referencing to 3.5 Epic Level Handbook (since the two systems are practically compatible), epic level spells are based on Spellcraft. Generally speaking, the higher your check, the more powerful spells you can research & develop as well as cast.

3) You would qualify for the Feat Craft Magic Arms & Armor not on the basis that you're a level 5 character, but because you have 5 levels based on the combined number of caster levels (Magus accounts for 3, Wizard for 2). On a side note, this isn't a very good way to start an artificer build.

Thanks, that helps me a lot.

I'm taking Magus/Wizard. If I take Universalist as my wizard school I can apply a metamagic feat to 7 (3+ my intelligence modifier) spells a day without raising there level. I will then be able to cast both wizard and magus spells in armor with no arcane failure rate by using Still Spell as my meta magic feat. At 14th level in magus I'll have access to my 7 favorite wizard spells, all my magus spells, can cast and make a full attack in the same round and do it all in heavy armor at no Arcane Spell failure rate. Correct me if I'm mistaken on any of this?

Not going for an Artificer Build. That's just a side note. Although what would you suggest to make me a better artificer?

Also, if I have a bound object, and it can cast 1 spells that I have in my spellbook once a day, do I apply arcane spell failure rate to that object if I'm in heavy armor? Even if its a weapon I'm holding and my armor isn't even really conflicting with it?

What's the names of these "Epic level books"? I'd like to get some.

killer_monk
2013-04-01, 04:44 PM
Though it has been a bit since I've played, making use of the terrain/situation to enhance the (melo)drama of the scene is specifically to be rewarded by the gamemaster, either through beneficial modifiers to the skill check, clear enhancement of the results, or through the award of game tokens (that can be used to modify future rolls, allow rerolls or the like).

In short, if you're in a 7th Sea game and someone says "I attack the thug", they're doing it wrong. You should set a good example by saying "I leap to the ship's railing and dive towards the water. Catching hold of one of the trailing sail lines, I use it to swing up and over the railing of the aftcastle, kicking the two pirates over the side and into the ocean." It'll still take a roll (and assumes you're the right kind of character for such a move), but so long as the pirates you're booting aren't the honcho and his number one guy, odds are good you'll succeed *because* you made it cinematic.

Feng Shui turns that idea up a notch or two...in 7th Sea, you might have had to know there was already rope lines trailing below the railing, either from the GM description or because you asked. In Feng Shui, don't ask. There is a rule (maybe even official :smallbiggrin:) that says if you have to ask, it isn't there. You simply incorporate any reasonably-appropriate items into the action and *poof*, there they are!

- M

Cool, that sounds pretty awesome. I'm going to have to go take a look at those games sometime!

*marks on to-due list

killer_monk
2013-04-03, 07:34 PM
Alright, I have another question in addition to my existing ones.

Say I'm a level 3 Magus/ 2 wizard/ 1 barbarian.

Now say I've got a spell that lasts 1 minute a level, so would it last 6 minutes(my ECL), 5 minutes(my caster level total) or 3 or 2 minutes(whichever casting class I cast from)?

Hendel
2013-04-03, 09:12 PM
Alright, I have another question in addition to my existing ones.

Say I'm a level 3 Magus/ 2 wizard/ 1 barbarian.

Now say I've got a spell that lasts 1 minute a level, so would it last 6 minutes(my ECL), 5 minutes(my caster level total) or 3 or 2 minutes(whichever casting class I cast from)?
If it were a magus spell 3 minutes. If it were a wizard spell 2 minutes. There are traits and such that you could use to increase caster level such as Magical Knack.

Your ECL or CR means nothing except for how relatively powerful you are in relation to other PC's, NPC's, and monsters.

In the case above the 5 caster levels (magus + wizard) does not mean anything.

Rhynn
2013-04-03, 09:57 PM
Adventurer Conqueror King (http://www.autarch.co/)
Basic Fantasy (http://www.basicfantasy.org/) (free)
Dungeon Crawl Classics (http://www.goodmangames.com/dungeoncrawlclassics.html)
Labyrinth Lord (http://goblinoidgames.com/labyrinthlord.html) (free)
Lamentations of the Flame Princess (http://www.lotfp.com/RPG/)
Mazes & Minotaurs (http://mazesandminotaurs.free.fr/revised.html) (free)
Swords & Wizardry (http://www.swordsandwizardry.com/) (free)
OSRIC (http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/osric/) (free)
Myth & Magic (http://www.newhavengames.com/?page_id=23) (free)

All familiar & accessible to someone with AD&D experience.

Slipperychicken
2013-04-03, 10:19 PM
Adventurer Conqueror King (http://www.autarch.co/)
Basic Fantasy (http://www.basicfantasy.org/) (free)
Dungeon Crawl Classics (http://www.goodmangames.com/dungeoncrawlclassics.html)
Labyrinth Lord (http://goblinoidgames.com/labyrinthlord.html) (free)
Lamentations of the Flame Princess (http://www.lotfp.com/RPG/)
Mazes & Minotaurs (http://mazesandminotaurs.free.fr/revised.html) (free)
Swords & Wizardry (http://www.swordsandwizardry.com/) (free)
OSRIC (http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/osric/) (free)
Myth & Magic (http://www.newhavengames.com/?page_id=23) (free)

All familiar & accessible to someone with AD&D experience.

Heh. I almost reported you for being a spambot, until I realized this was actually a valid response :smallbiggrin:

Rhynn
2013-04-03, 11:11 PM
Heh. I almost reported you for being a spambot, until I realized this was actually a valid response :smallbiggrin:

Well, I might qualify, because I think I'll be pasting that exact thing to a lot of threads in the future. :smallamused: I've linked all of those so many times as a response to somebody looking for a game, and it takes too much time to find and copy and type up the links every time. (Well, not too much as such, but it gets annoying to repeat.)

Edit: Actually, scratch that, I'm just going to put them in my sig.

killer_monk
2013-04-04, 11:03 AM
If it were a magus spell 3 minutes. If it were a wizard spell 2 minutes. There are traits and such that you could use to increase caster level such as Magical Knack.

Your ECL or CR means nothing except for how relatively powerful you are in relation to other PC's, NPC's, and monsters.

In the case above the 5 caster levels (magus + wizard) does not mean anything.

Thanks, this really helps!


Adventurer Conqueror King (http://www.autarch.co/)
Basic Fantasy (http://www.basicfantasy.org/) (free)
Dungeon Crawl Classics (http://www.goodmangames.com/dungeoncrawlclassics.html)
Labyrinth Lord (http://goblinoidgames.com/labyrinthlord.html) (free)
Lamentations of the Flame Princess (http://www.lotfp.com/RPG/)
Mazes & Minotaurs (http://mazesandminotaurs.free.fr/revised.html) (free)
Swords & Wizardry (http://www.swordsandwizardry.com/) (free)
OSRIC (http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/osric/) (free)
Myth & Magic (http://www.newhavengames.com/?page_id=23) (free)

All familiar & accessible to someone with AD&D experience.

Nice collection. I'm not currently able to download this but I will be this weekend. It's Adventure Time!

Alright guys, you've all helped me a lot, and I'd like to say that if anybody has pathfinder questions that they can post them on this thread.

Spreadin' the joy, and praisin' the sun.

Here's some more questions:

I may run an Evil/Neutral Game in the near future. I think my players will want to play monster races for this. I'm totally okay with Efreets, Djinn, Wyvern, Oni Ogre Mages, Lesser Devils, Some Undead and other Creatures well within this power range. Of course they won't get to use most racial abilities or monster Hit Dice, and I may remove more rediculous buffs if they're obviously OP, but my real question is has anybody done this before?

Any monster races that aren't obviously OP, but can seamlessly break the game irregardless? I'm probably not going to allow dragons as races, but I guess I could if they where accordingly scaled(:smallbiggrin:).

But really, you guys have any helpful advice on the matter? Also, it's not going to be Gestalt, so don't worry about that.

killer_monk
2013-04-22, 10:19 AM
Alright, I've been playing my Magus a lot. I really enjoy him and just hit 3rd level. This is pretty good sense we use the slow XP progression tables.

My question is that I can now become a Bladebound Magus(Ultimate Magic pages 47-48). This seems like a really huge bonus with no real penalty, so should I take it? It's not like It's going to effect anything else so it's basically just that I give up 1 arcana and get a sweet blade, right? correct me if i'm wrong.

Also, in the event that I do take this what type of blade would you all recommend? I was thinking Bastard Sword for the extra 2 possible damage but what do you guys think?

Slipperychicken
2013-04-22, 05:40 PM
Also, in the event that I do take this what type of blade would you all recommend? I was thinking Bastard Sword for the extra 2 possible damage but what do you guys think?

Well, any Intelligent Item is really just begging for a DM-screw. So if you take one, hope your DM isn't cruel, because he can pile on the Will saves and have your sword do all kinds of awful things to you.


I'd probably take a Scimitar for the 18-20 critical range, then make it Keen or something so I get that tasty 15-20/x2 spellstrike critical goodness. The critical stats matter more than the damage die if you're dealing more base damage (You're a Magus. Your raison d'etre is to spam Spellstrike Shocking Grasp at people, so base damage isn't an issue). The gist of it is,

Felhammer
2013-04-29, 01:02 AM
3.5/Pathfinder, 4E and Next are very "roll dice and blurt out numbers." The systems don't force you to roleplay, the way other games do. Honestly, I'd stick with AD&D or switch over to anything that isn't d20 based. If you like Fantasy, then go for Exalted. If you like Samurai, then go for Legend of the 5 Rings. If you like cyberpunk, then go for Shadowrun. If you like Super Heroes, then Marvel Heroic. If you like Star Wars, then FFG's new system. If you want a system that can be virtually anything, then go for Savage Worlds. Don't stick with D&D because, from the sounds of it, you won't necessarily enjoy any of the latest offerings.

Rhynn
2013-04-29, 01:05 AM
Don't stick with D&D because, from the sounds of it, you won't necessarily enjoy any of the latest offerings.

Or... does he!?


Alright, I've been playing my Magus a lot. I really enjoy him and just hit 3rd level.

Felhammer
2013-04-29, 01:06 AM
Or... does he!?

Well most everyone starts by playing D&D. As you grow and mature, you leave the game behind and enjoy different games (which from the sounds of it, he will probably like).

Krazzman
2013-04-29, 03:18 AM
If you like Star Wars, then FFG's new system.

Do you mean SWSE or the Beta one? Or is it out of beta already?

About fantasy:
Realism/Low-ish Fantasy (not a kick in the door style game and such stuff):
DSA - Das Schwarze Auge.

GURPS is mentioned when it comes to such things... but I think both are real Numbercrunchers as the building (at least for DSA) is complicated... and can take one day if you aren't that into the rules...

EDIT:
About the sentence: numberblurting instead of roleplay (diplomacy and bluff and so on)... I am of the opinion that these things aren't problems of the "system" but more or less problems of the players. In our current PF group a few guys said that they won't play pathfinder because you can't roleplay with this system...

Felhammer
2013-04-29, 11:59 AM
Do you mean SWSE or the Beta one? Or is it out of beta already?


I was referring to the new Star Wars RPG made by Fantasy Flight Games (Edge of the Empire). :smallsmile:

Although Star Wars Saga Edition is the best d20 modern/future chassis available, it is still d20 based and prone to all of the faults that lie therein.

killer_monk
2013-04-29, 03:20 PM
I've actually been seriously considering some of these other systems you've all suggested. Although, sense felhammer brought it up, what's the best super hero system? One that's really role-play based or just one you guys consider the best?

Also, went with bastard sword for the extra di size, and I'm co-DM, so I don't worry about DM screw overs. I don't screw my players either though, all by the book and the rolls when it comes to decisions.

Rhynn
2013-04-29, 04:13 PM
Although, sense felhammer brought it up, what's the best super hero system? One that's really role-play based or just one you guys consider the best?

Mutants & Masterminds 2E for me. No experience with 3E, it may be as good or better. 1E is pretty bad.

Felhammer
2013-04-29, 07:33 PM
I've actually been seriously considering some of these other systems you've all suggested. Although, sense felhammer brought it up, what's the best super hero system? One that's really role-play based or just one you guys consider the best?

Also, went with bastard sword for the extra di size, and I'm co-DM, so I don't worry about DM screw overs. I don't screw my players either though, all by the book and the rolls when it comes to decisions.

There's a lot of systems out there. Savage Worlds has a Super Hero system. Then there's Mutants and Masterminds. DC has its own official system. Don't forget about Palladium. Personally, my favorite is Marvel Heroic Roleplaying because it is very rules light and focused completely on making the player think in a narrative way.

killer_monk
2013-04-30, 07:50 AM
So Mutants and Masterminds and Marvel Heroics are the big votes? Any others? Also, could you give me the gist of how Mutants and Masterminds plays and how Marvel plays? Any instances or personal experiences would be appreciated, thanks!

Felhammer
2013-04-30, 12:54 PM
Here is an example Play, provided by MWP, which makes MHRP.
(http://www.margaretweis.com/images/stories/bonus_content/mhr_exampleofplay.pdf)