Books Speaking of the next book... [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

FlawedParadigm

2013-03-21, 11:25 AM

Peelee

2013-03-21, 11:33 AM

Although looking back, only 833 and 839 presented anything even remotely close to resembling a good stopping point recently, and even then the emphasis would be on remotely. I don't know if the KRAAAAAACKAKOOOOM is going to be the stop point for this book, though - at a guess, I would say 878 was the climax and we're about to hit denouement. If I'm not mistaken, Team Evil still needs to show up before the fate of the gate is decided, and between their arrival and the resolution of the three-way engagement, that still seems to be a long way off. Unless Rich is planning on the next book running to 256 strips or something, I think the fate of the Gate will be the territory of the next-next book.

Actually, looking back at the ones you linked, I could see 839 being the end of a book. I do fully expect it to not be the case, and for the book to actually end after the gate has been dealt with, but that would make the best stopping point we've seen so far, if it's to be finished before the gate.

Zerter

2013-03-21, 11:59 AM

I'm actually thinking that Burlew has the story worked out in his head, but not the exact amount of comics he'll need to tell it and is running long because he is having tons of fun doing this one.

I have to admit, I have selfish reasons for wanting this arc to be extra long. It is my personal favorite. Malack and Tarquin are characters I could imagine playing and I love desert settings. I also disliked the Dwarf and hope he grew some personality to go with the fangs..

JustWantedToSay

2013-03-21, 12:58 PM

Might even end the very next strip. I think it's clear that the Order has already lost. As soon as they receive the sending, it will be clear to them, if it isn't already. Moving to plan B starts a new book.

Porthos

2013-03-21, 01:11 PM

Aren't we about due? DStP was 188 strips, and stopped at 672. We're 208 past that now, and I'm sort of hoping the next book won't be long enough to be $50. Of course we're also in the middle of a major conflict, hence the nature of my worry.

It's not the strip count that matters. It's the page count. :smallsmile:

(Ignoring Dungeon Crawlin' Fools)...

Book
# of Online Strips
# of Online Pages
Total Book Pages

NCftPB
180
197
244

W&XP
183
242
288

DStP
188
226
272

Book 5
208+
233.75+
????

So we are in fact past Don't Split the Party. But we haven't quite reached the behemoth known as War and XPs. And if it does? Well maybe Rich figures that the Kickstarter drive proved that people are in fact willing to shell out for books as long as (or a bit more than) W&XPs. :smalltongue:

FlawedParadigm

2013-03-21, 01:33 PM

Porthos

2013-03-21, 02:37 PM

Oh sure, it's just that we're rapidly approaching that behemoth stage, especially considering pages set aside for author commentary and bonus strips. Once you figure that in, we can't be more than a few pages from WaXP's size already.

Already accounted for that in my chart above. :smallwink: I figure we're about 8-10 pages from a book the size of War and XPs.

Thrax

2013-03-21, 04:17 PM

I think #841 would make great book ending. Of course there's been no announcement so it may still be up in the air, but if I were to make that choice, that's what I'd do.

XxXU2XxX

2013-03-21, 04:29 PM

I think #841 would make great book ending. Of course there's been no announcement so it may still be up in the air, but if I were to make that choice, that's what I'd do.

#841 would be a TERRIBLE comic to end the book on. It's right in the middle of the arc for crying out loud! Let's face it everyone, we are still in Book 5 at this point. When it will end who can say, but it's story is still on-going.

SavageWombat

2013-03-21, 04:35 PM

The book will end when it ends, and no sooner. Length is not a critical issue.

And when it's complete, put it in a time machine and immediately send it to me dated Mar. 22, 2013.

Olinser

2013-03-21, 04:39 PM

The book will end when it ends, and no sooner. Length is not a critical issue.

And when it's complete, put it in a time machine and immediately send it to me dated Mar. 22, 2013.

If you can go ahead and stick the completed volumes of Naruto in there that would be cool too.

Thrax

2013-03-21, 04:44 PM

#841 would be a TERRIBLE comic to end the book on. It's right in the middle of the arc for crying out loud! Let's face it everyone, we are still in Book 5 at this point. When it will end who can say, but it's story is still on-going.

That's called a cliffhanger. Face it, leaving on such a note would be a major "Oh sh-, what happens now?" moment.

Porthos

2013-03-21, 04:51 PM

That's called a cliffhanger. Face it, leaving on such a note would be a major "Oh sh-, what happens now?" moment.

The better point is that Rich has always told us before when one book ends and another is about to begin. So what makes people think that he is suddenly going to go, "Oh, BTW, all of the people waiting for the book to end, it already ended 40 strips ago!!1!"? :smallconfused: :smallconfused:

genderlich

2013-03-21, 05:16 PM

We're about due in many ways. I just realized the other day that DStP was published in November of 2009...

FlawedParadigm

2013-03-21, 05:33 PM

We're about due in many ways. I just realized the other day that DStP was published in November of 2009...

Yeah, I was looking at that last night. That's what prompted me to make the thread. Like I said earlier though, I feel like we just hit climax and will be in denouement for the next few strips. I wouldn't be surprised if we hit book's end before 900, prior to Team Evil showing up and really rocking the boat. I think once they show up, unless they immediately go all-out on everyone present which might strain even their resources (assuming we're not so close to the end that MitD is going to be unleashed) that we're looking at 30 or more strips of additional conflict, and that would make for a very fat book, hence my thought that the gate may not be resolved this book.

NerdyKris

2013-03-21, 07:10 PM

If I'm not mistaken, Team Evil still needs to show up before the fate of the gate is decided,

That's not required. We only know that Xykon will pass within 1000 feet of the gate before being within 1000 feet of Kraagor's gate. Granted, they're on their way now, but for all we know, they might arrive to find the gate destroyed or otherwise inclined to go after Kraagor's gate instead, through some other means, be it illusion or a massive army from the Kingdom of Blood.

Dr.Epic

2013-03-21, 07:15 PM

Aren't we about due? DStP was 188 strips, and stopped at 672. We're 208 past that now, and I'm sort of hoping the next book won't be long enough to be $50. Of course we're also in the middle of a major conflict, hence the nature of my worry.

What part of the current comic implies we at the end of one chapter and about to start another? We still have a Gate, undead teammate, and evil group to deal with.

FlawedParadigm

2013-03-21, 09:09 PM

What part of the current comic implies we at the end of one chapter and about to start another? We still have a Gate, undead teammate, and evil group to deal with.

The part where I suspect Rich doesn't want a book so big he has to charge $50 for it and cut into the number of people who can afford it. Plain old practicality.

That's not required. We only know that Xykon will pass within 1000 feet of the gate before being within 1000 feet of Kraagor's gate. Granted, they're on their way now, but for all we know, they might arrive to find the gate destroyed or otherwise inclined to go after Kraagor's gate instead, through some other means, be it illusion or a massive army from the Kingdom of Blood.

Unless we have evidence to the contrary, Xykon's last plan was to teleport to this gate the moment he's done with whatever he's about off-panel. The original plan was to teleport two rounds after the phylactery was found. Either way, we know the plan is to teleport exactly where the gate is (because he's the person who knows exactly where it is.) He *may* have some kind of plan that hasn't been at all foreshadowed to begin assaulting Kraagor's Gate just a few minutes later, or simultaneously through other means, but I think the world is pretty much screwed if that's the case, and Elan has a happy ending coming.

Olinser

2013-03-22, 09:29 AM

The part where I suspect Rich doesn't want a book so big he has to charge $50 for it and cut into the number of people who can afford it. Plain old practicality.

Unless we have evidence to the contrary, Xykon's last plan was to teleport to this gate the moment he's done with whatever he's about off-panel. The original plan was to teleport two rounds after the phylactery was found. Either way, we know the plan is to teleport exactly where the gate is (because he's the person who knows exactly where it is.) He *may* have some kind of plan that hasn't been at all foreshadowed to begin assaulting Kraagor's Gate just a few minutes later, or simultaneously through other means, but I think the world is pretty much screwed if that's the case, and Elan has a happy ending coming.

He can't teleport 'exactly' where it is. Even Xykon isn't that stupid. He knows that an Epic illusionist defends the Gate, and has doubtless set up some heavy defenses - he has no idea that Girard and his entire clan have been wiped out.

He'll definitely teleport close in though - and as soon as he realizes the place is undefended he'll definitely be barging in the front door.

JustWantedToSay

2013-03-22, 10:23 AM

The part where I suspect Rich doesn't want a book so big he has to charge $50 for it and cut into the number of people who can afford it. Plain old practicality.

With the jump of price that USPS charges for priority mail to Canada: I'd much rather pay 21$ shipping on a 50$ book than on a 20$ book.

FlawedParadigm

2013-03-22, 10:34 AM

With the jump of price that USPS charges for priority mail to Canada: I'd much rather pay 21$ shipping on a 50$ book than on a 20$ book.

Well the larger books so far have been between 29-32 dollars US, and as this thread points out, this is already in that range, so 20 is right out. Me, I'm mostly paying for the author commentary and bonus strips. The only time I'm ever without internet is when the electricity I'd use to read the books by is also out. I see your point, but Rich can't do much about shipping charges. He doesn't get any of that money. :/

deworde

2013-03-23, 02:41 AM

With the jump of price that USPS charges for priority mail to Canada: I'd much rather pay 21$ shipping on a 50$ book than on a 20$ book.

Amen my international brother. I'm in the UK. I mean, at least *you* could cross the border to pick it up from a Friendly Seattlite. An ocean stands between me and such books.

zql

2013-03-28, 12:11 AM

It's not the strip count that matters. It's the page count. :smallsmile:

(Ignoring Dungeon Crawlin' Fools)...

{table]Book | # of Online Strips |# of Online Pages| Total Book Pages
NCftPB| 180 | 197 | 244
W&XP | 183 | 242 | 288
DStP | 188 | 226 | 272
Book 5 | 208+ | 233.75+ | ???[/table]

So we are in fact past Don't Split the Party. But we haven't quite reached the behemoth known as War and XPs. And if it does? Well maybe Rich figures that the Kickstarter drive proved that people are in fact willing to shell out for books as long as (or a bit more than) W&XPs. :smalltongue:

amazing job, pal

Nimrod's Son

2013-03-28, 02:22 PM

Amen my international brother. I'm in the UK. I mean, at least *you* could cross the border to pick it up from a Friendly Seattlite. An ocean stands between me and such books.
Forbidden Planet stocks them; I bought all the books (apart from SSaDT, obv.) at my local branch as they were released and they're still well stocked to this day. And they have a Newcastle branch, so they should be able to order them for you even if they don't already have them.

Porthos

2013-04-11, 10:31 PM

It's not the strip count that matters. It's the page count. :smallsmile:

(Ignoring Dungeon Crawlin' Fools)...

Book
# of Online Strips
# of Online Pages
Total Book Pages

NCftPB
180
197
244

W&XP
183
242
288

DStP
188
226
272

Book 5
208+
233.75+
????

So we are in fact past Don't Split the Party. But we haven't quite reached the behemoth known as War and XPs. And if it does? Well maybe Rich figures that the Kickstarter drive proved that people are in fact willing to shell out for books as long as (or a bit more than) W&XPs. :smalltongue:

It's been a while, so let's update this, shall we? :smallsmile:

As of Strip #883:

Book
# of Online Strips
# of Online Pages
Total Book Pages

NCftPB
180
197
244

W&XP
183
242
288

DStP
188
226
272

Book 5
211+
234.75+
????

So, according to raw online page count, Book 5 is just 4.25 pages away from W&XPs. And since that .25 of an empty page (which for completists is the lower quarter of this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0841.html)) will almost certainly be filled with something, we really are 4 online pages from tying the length of W&XPs.

Now that doesn't necessarily mean that Book 5 would be the same length of W&XPs. But the number of pages devoted to 'extras' in the books (pages devoted to chapter splash pages, commentary, bonus strips/art, assorted other extras) have been remarkably consistent. So imma gonna guess that, yes, there is all the likelihood in the world that we're gonna get a book of the same length (or bigger :smalleek:) than W&XPs.

Dr. Gamera

2013-05-07, 09:44 AM

It's been a while, so let's update this, shall we? :smallsmile:

As of Strip #883:

{table]Book | # of Online Strips |# of Online Pages| Total Book Pages
NCftPB| 180 | 197 | 244
W&XP | 183 | 242 | 288
DStP | 188 | 226 | 272
Book 5 | 211+ | 237.75+ | ???[/table]

So, according to raw online page count, Book 5 is just 4.25 pages away from W&XPs. And since that .25 of an empty page (which for completists is the lower quarter of this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0841.html)) will almost certainly be filled with something, we really are 4 online pages from tying the length of W&XPs.

4 online pages later, we've tied the number of online pages in War and XPs.

fergo

2013-05-07, 02:20 PM

sam79

2013-05-07, 02:37 PM

How about this book being split into two shorter volumes? Say, around the time the Order set off from the Empire of Blood? (Just a random suggestion).

The way things are heading, they won't be resolved any time soon, and the last book was long enough as it was.

The two volumes could still be released at the same time, or shortly after each other.

What do people think?

I'm not sure about this idea; a lot of the first part of this arc is build-up to basically where we are now. So a book that is just the build-up with no pay-off would be...not ideal. Also, two small books would cost more and probably be heavier/more expensive to post than one big one, so it would be a bit of a bind for the Loyal Customer, especially those of us who pay overseas shipping!

Sir_Leorik

2013-05-07, 03:12 PM

What part of the current comic implies we at the end of one chapter and about to start another? We still have a Gate, undead teammate, and evil group to deal with.

Two words: Page count. If the page count of the online comic gets too high then there won't be room for author commentary, bonus strips and other fun stuff.

There's also a pair of prophecies that Count Durkon has yet to fulfill by returning as a Vampire to the Dwarven Homelands. The Dwarven Homelands happen to be, conveniently, on the way to the polar regions where Kraagor's Tomb is located.

Also the Oracle only stated that Xykon would be within 1,000 feet of Girard's Gate; he didn't specify he would be in the same room as the Gate...

Dr. Gamera

2013-05-13, 08:04 AM

4 online pages later, we've tied the number of online pages in War and XPs.

Now 215+ online strips, 242.75+ online pages, longer than War and XPs by every online measurement.

I feel as if either we're very close to the end of the book -- within a dozen online pages, via yet another surprise twist -- or this book will have more online pages than War and XPs has pages. The margin is 45.25 and shrinking.

Olinser

2013-05-13, 09:49 AM

Now 215+ online strips, 242.75+ online pages, longer than War and XPs by every online measurement.

I feel as if either we're very close to the end of the book -- within a dozen online pages, via yet another surprise twist -- or this book will have more online pages than War and XPs has pages. The margin is 45.25 and shrinking.

Plenty of series got bigger and longer as they went along. I know it's not the same thing, but if you put all of the Harry Potter books on a shelf together, the last 4 books are all individually bigger than the first 3 books combined.

theangelJean

2013-05-13, 10:34 AM

Plenty of series got bigger and longer as they went along. I know it's not the same thing, but if you put all of the Harry Potter books on a shelf together, the last 4 books are all individually bigger than the first 3 books combined.

This is definitely true, and also the Giant has said that he tends to run long. But I also thought he'd said somewhere that he thought the sheer size (and resulting price point) of WAXPs might a turn-off for potential buyers. Not sure if I'm mis-remembering though, I can't find it in the Index. Maybe I'm just remembering the first poster in this thread, who was worried that the next book would cost $50.

Of course the size of the book did also end up being a problem for him when it came to re-printing, but I don't know if that would stop him from doing it all over again :) He has definitely said that WAXPs is the "biggest, fattest, most expensive book to print so far" ...

SaintRidley

2013-05-13, 10:36 AM

Plenty of series got bigger and longer as they went along. I know it's not the same thing, but if you put all of the Harry Potter books on a shelf together, the last 4 books are all individually bigger than the first 3 books combined.

Bigger than the first two combined. Prisoner of Azkaban pushes the total page count of the first three up to over a thousand, which is more than Order of the Phoenix, which was the longest individual book.

I say bring on a Book 5 that's bigger than War. It will look so nice on my shelf.

ChristianSt

2013-05-13, 10:55 AM

This is definitely true, and also the Giant has said that he tends to run long. But I also thought he'd said somewhere that he thought the sheer size (and resulting price point) of WAXPs might a turn-off for potential buyers. Not sure if I'm mis-remembering though, I can't find it in the Index. Maybe I'm just remembering the first poster in this thread, who was worried that the next book would cost $50.

Of course the size of the book did also end up being a problem for him when it came to re-printing, but I don't know if that would stop him from doing it all over again :) He has definitely said that WAXPs is the "biggest, fattest, most expensive book to print so far" ...

I think the prize point wouldn't be that bad.
I think splitting wouldn't really make it cheaper (probably even more expensive), since you would need two books instead of one big. Only problem would perhaps some limitation to print a longer book, but I don't think we have reached that point. (And for newer readers, I think it shouldn't really make a difference, since starting with book 5 isn't the wisest, and the first books are smaller)

Speaking of longer books: If someday OotS is finished, if it is possible, I would really like some gigantic hardcover complete edition! (Which would be really awesome)

Porthos

2013-05-13, 02:12 PM

This is definitely true, and also the Giant has said that he tends to run long. But I also thought he'd said somewhere that he thought the sheer size (and resulting price point) of WAXPs might a turn-off for potential buyers. Not sure if I'm mis-remembering though, I can't find it in the Index. Maybe I'm just remembering the first poster in this thread, who was worried that the next book would cost $50.

Of course the size of the book did also end up being a problem for him when it came to re-printing, but I don't know if that would stop him from doing it all over again :) He has definitely said that WAXPs is the "biggest, fattest, most expensive book to print so far" ...

No, I recall him saying something like that in the mists of time.

OTOH, he now might have 1,254,120 reasons to think he can get away with printing a longer book than W&XPs. :smalltongue:

===

As of Strip #887:

Book
# of Online Strips
# of Online Pages
Total Book Pages

NCftPB
180
197
244

W&XP
183
242
288

DStP
188
226
272

Book 5
215+
242.75+
????

Caractacus

2013-05-13, 04:50 PM

If someday OotS is finished, if it is possible, I would really like some gigantic hardcover complete edition! (Which would be really awesome)

Oooohhh...yesss!

Count me IN! I'll pay almost anything for that - imagine it, a book almost the size of a printer...mmm... :smallcool:

Rogar Demonblud

2013-05-13, 06:11 PM

By the time that comes out, printers will be smaller and I'm pretty sure the book will be huge, so it'll be BIGGER than the printer. Heck, it might be bigger than the computer you order is with.:smallbiggrin:

137beth

2013-05-13, 09:21 PM

David Argall

2013-05-14, 12:33 AM

The book can end quite soon, by my theory. A possible version, of which there are several...
X really does show in the next strip. Finding the party helpless, he decides it is no fun to kill them and so carries then to the Gate. In the meantime the LG is taking a different path to the Gate, and both parties arrive at about the same time. A "discussion" ensues. In the meantime, the party wakes up and likely joins in. But Belkar is too weak, and gets knocked into a corner, right onto the "Don't Press" button. For any of a dozen reasons, he presses, with the result all parties are tossed into the rift, and into the Snarl's world. End of book, and start of another.
If you really squeeze it, that's one page. Less tightening and it should fit in 2-3 pages, plus a splash page or two.

Shred-Bot

2013-05-16, 05:09 PM

Also the Oracle only stated that Xykon would be within 1,000 feet of Girard's Gate; he didn't specify he would be in the same room as the Gate...

That would be a funny, if anticlimactic, ending to the arc.

*outside the pyramid*

"-port!"

CCCCKKKKKKRAAACCCKKKACCCKKKOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

"Sounds like this one's all used up, Reddie. Greater Tele-"

*end scene*

FlawedParadigm

2013-05-17, 02:19 PM

Might be this dream sequence is wrapping things up for the book.

David Argall

2013-05-17, 02:37 PM

That would be a funny, if anticlimactic, ending to the arc.

*outside the pyramid*

"-port!"

CCCCKKKKKKRAAACCCKKKACCCKKKOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

"Sounds like this one's all used up, Reddie. Greater Tele-"

*end scene*

This seems to have problems for the storyline. X is dealing with the final gate, and the party is far, far away. How do we stop X & Red from doing their ritual before the heroes arrive to stop them?
Much better X show up at the gate and something happens to delay him, such as my suggestion he get tossed into the Snarl's world and can't get out until time for the grand climax.

sam79

2013-05-17, 02:45 PM

Might be this dream sequence is wrapping things up for the book.

Could be. There are a lot of real world things to wrap up, or at least deal with: The Illusion spell,re-uniting with V, Team Evil, Linear Guild, Girard's Gate, vamp Durkon. it seems clear that these can't all be dealt with in book 5, unless it is going to be really a lot larger than War and XP. It might be the plan to have all of these carry over into the next book, with the Order left stuck in their fake happy ending, and the overall tone of the conclusion being "I don't know HOW they're going to get out of this one"

Sunken Valley

2013-05-17, 02:47 PM

I propose this book ends in less than 10 strips

ManuelSacha

2013-05-17, 02:54 PM

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a behemoth book.
Bigger is always better.

sam79

2013-05-17, 02:58 PM

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a behemoth book.
Bigger is always better.

From a purely artistic standpoint, I agree. From the point of view of 1) paying for the book and 2) paying for said book to be shipped, I beg to differ.

ChristianSt

2013-05-17, 03:31 PM

Might be this dream sequence is wrapping things up for the book.

I had that thought, too. I think we will see in a few strip whether this happens or not.

It would be an interesting ending (and would increase the discussion how long the illusion persists), but it would be the first (compilation) book without a clear ending of some sort, but with a gigantic cliffhanger.

From a purely artistic standpoint, I agree. From the point of view of 1) paying for the book and 2) paying for said book to be shipped, I beg to differ.

I don't now, buying two smaller books doesn't appear to be cheaper normally. (Knowing that I would by them in either form :smallwink:)

Shred-Bot

2013-05-17, 04:09 PM

This seems to have problems for the storyline. X is dealing with the final gate, and the party is far, far away. How do we stop X & Red from doing their ritual before the heroes arrive to stop them?
Much better X show up at the gate and something happens to delay him, such as my suggestion he get tossed into the Snarl's world and can't get out until time for the grand climax.

Oh I agree that this is never how it would happen... just a way for the Oracle's prophecy to technically come true without Team Evil getting involved with Girard's gate at all.

(And actually I like your idea... after all, why show us a world within the Snarl if nobody's going to visit?)

Zmeoaice

2013-05-17, 04:28 PM

From a purely artistic standpoint, I agree. From the point of view of 1) paying for the book and 2) paying for said book to be shipped, I beg to differ.

Does shipping payment go higher as the book gets larger? I'd imagine that paying for the shipping of 2 medium books would be more expensive than one big book.

Rogar Demonblud

2013-05-17, 09:22 PM

Zmeoaice

2013-05-17, 09:38 PM

Shipping generally goes by weight, so two books may actually cost more (twice as many covers, another author intro, another preface, etc.).

Actually, I've been wondering if the swirly-eye was our end of book splash page, and the Dream Wedding is the start of the next book. Similar to W&XP ending with Roy on the cloud with his father, and DSTP picking up immediately thereafter.

I don't think so since we would have been told this like the last endings. Also, in WXP the main story has finished, and Xykon won, while the forces retreated or went underground, but here we still have the Linear Guild and Team Evil rushing to the gate.

Sylthia

2013-05-17, 11:18 PM

I never thought WXP was particularly long. I don't know what the profit margin on the books is, but the Kickstarter showed that there is definitely a market for the books. I didn't realize we had already passed DStP already. It doesn't seem like it's been that long, but I guess it has.

Dr. Gamera

2013-05-18, 01:42 AM

Now 215+ online strips, 242.75+ online pages, longer than War and XPs by every online measurement.

As of #888, 216+ online strips, 243.75 online pages. 0.25 online pages less than NCFtPB has pages, 28.25 online pages less than DStP has pages, 44.25 online pages less than W&XPs has pages.

David Argall

2013-05-18, 01:57 AM

As of #888, 216+ online strips, 243.75 online pages. 0.25 online pages less than NCFtPB has pages, 28.25 online pages less than DStP has pages, 44.25 online pages less than W&XPs has pages.

These other books all have almost identical amounts of expansion. And there seems to be no reason to expect different this time. The math says this will be the longest book so far, and maybe by a serious margin. The evidence is quite enough to have us predicting the end.

sam79

2013-05-18, 03:02 AM

Does shipping payment go higher as the book gets larger? I'd imagine that paying for the shipping of 2 medium books would be more expensive than one big book.

I don't now, buying two smaller books doesn't appear to be cheaper normally. (Knowing that I would by them in either form :smallwink:)

What I was trying (unsuccessfully) to say was; if the Order of the Stick ends up being an Epic Story In Seven Volumes, then the bigger each volume is,the better for me as a reader. But the worse for my wallet, because a big book is more expensive than a medium-sized book.

But yes, two smaller books with the same content as a larger book would end up being much more expesnive.

As for shipping; I don't really know exactly. Obviously size/weight affects shipping costs pretty directly, but I don't know if the difference between (say) On the Origin of the PCs and Book 5 is significant enough to make a big difference to the postage. Internationally, shipping is pricey enough already, even for the little books.

ChristianSt

2013-05-18, 04:01 AM

What I was trying (unsuccessfully) to say was; if the Order of the Stick ends up being an Epic Story In Seven Volumes, then the bigger each volume is,the better for me as a reader. But the worse for my wallet, because a big book is more expensive than a medium-sized book.

But yes, two smaller books with the same content as a larger book would end up being much more expesnive.

As for shipping; I don't really know exactly. Obviously size/weight affects shipping costs pretty directly, but I don't know if the difference between (say) On the Origin of the PCs and Book 5 is significant enough to make a big difference to the postage. Internationally, shipping is pricey enough already, even for the little books.

Yeah, but I think the number of pages of OotS is a (more or less) fixed number (we don't now yet). So If you have the choice to get say 7 big books or 12 small books, I think the 7 books are cheaper (and I think with each additional book, it does matter less and less that they get bigger, because you still start with the small/cheaper ones). Only bad thing with the bigger books would be the additional wait-time in between, but as most content is a recap, I have no problem to wait a bit longer.

And yes, I really hate international shipping, too. Sucks especially with board games on Kickstarter ("Hey, look at our awesome game, only 40 bucks. And because you live not in the USA you only need to add 30 bucks shipping." :smallannoyed:)

Because of this, I don't know how I will buy the next book. (Maybe pre-order it when/if Rich does it, like with SSaDT? Directly from Ookoodook? Or looking in my FLGS (which would probably be the cheapest solution)? I have no clue, yet)

davidbofinger

2013-05-18, 08:22 AM

Amen my international brother. I'm in the UK. [...] An ocean stands between me and such books.

[ACCENT=YORKSHIRE]

The UK! When I were a lad we dreamed of bein' as close as the UK. And t'ocean between us weren't no wee Atlantic pond, oh, no, it were the Pacific and full o' sea monsters with fangs as long as your arm that ate paperback books. The UK? Luxury, sheer luxury.

[ACCENT=AUSTRALIAN]

Dr. Gamera

2013-05-29, 03:30 PM

As of #888, 216+ online strips, 243.75 online pages. 0.25 online pages less than NCFtPB has pages, 28.25 online pages less than DStP has pages, 44.25 online pages less than W&XPs has pages.

As of #890, 218+ online strips, 247.75 online pages. 3.75 more online pages than NCFtPB has pages, 24.25 online pages less than DStP has pages, 40.25 online pages less than W&XPs has pages.

Ted The Bug

2013-05-29, 04:03 PM

We're probably somewhat near the end. I actually prefer medium-sized books a-la Paladin Blues to tomes like WAXP, they're easier to store and don't get spine cracks as easily. Then again, it's more OOTS, so I really can't complain!

Unless 5 comes out when I'm living in the EU later this year and would have to either wait or pay enormous shipping costs. Then I can complain.

David Argall

2013-05-30, 12:26 AM

As of #890, 218+ online strips, 247.75 online pages. 3.75 more online pages than NCFtPB has pages, 24.25 online pages less than DStP has pages, 40.25 online pages less than W&XPs has pages.
As noted before, this is an apples vs oranges comparison. In the current book, we are only counting online pages, but in the others, we are including the added pages, which naturally makes the current book look shorter. If we count only the online pages, or add the expected expansion pages, we find the current book has, or is becoming, the longest book to date.

Porthos

2013-05-30, 12:45 AM

As noted before, this is an apples vs oranges comparison. In the current book, we are only counting online pages, but in the others, we are including the added pages, which naturally makes the current book look shorter. If we count only the online pages, or add the expected expansion pages, we find the current book has, or is becoming, the longest book to date.

Yes, but Dr. Gamera isn't trying to make an comparison between apples and oranges. He's simply saying that there are so many online pages that it has surpassed the total page count of at least one (non DCF) compilation book, and is getting within spitting distance of another.

Basically he's using it as a metric of size.

FWIW, the non-online content of the compilation books since NCftPB has been pretty consistent:

NCftPB: 47 pages
W&XPs: 46 pages
DStP: 46 pages

Now past performance is no guarantee of future returns, and all that. But it probably is a pretty good guide. :smallwink:

SavageWombat

2013-06-03, 02:21 PM

You know, the final reveal of the dream sequence (the swirly-eyed team with drooling Elan) might make a good stop point for a "TO BE CONTINUED" ending. I can see it as the cliffhanger for a season finale episode.

Cizak

2013-06-03, 02:51 PM

I doubt it. The last two times a book ended, Rich made it extremely clear in-comic as well as on both the forum and the news page.

hamishspence

2013-06-03, 02:55 PM

300 also has the roaches comment on "the end of a story arc"

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0300.html

And in 120 they mention "giving them a good panel for the end of the trade paperback", and strike a pose:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0120.html

Cizak

2013-06-03, 02:58 PM

True. Every time a book has ended, it has been made clear.

veti

2013-06-03, 04:11 PM

Amen my international brother. I'm in the UK. I mean, at least *you* could cross the border to pick it up from a Friendly Seattlite. An ocean stands between me and such books.

OT, but I'm in New Zealand, and I just looked up the price of international shipping for the OOTS game from Ookoodook...

$60.95. $60 - freakin' - 95. I kid you not. There are two options, the basic ($60.95) and the deluxe 'boxed' (also $60.95). Not even NZ$, mind you, freakin' US$. Just for freight.

Now, I know what you're thinking: USPS's rapacious rates are not the store's fault, right? But then how does Amazon offer shipping - from the US, to the same address - at less than half that price?

If anyone reading this has any connections or influence with Ookoodook, please tell them to sort their ideas out, because this is unacceptable. (And I'm sure it wasn't like this 6 months ago, when I ordered a book as a Christmas present for my brother-in-law.)

sam79

2013-06-03, 04:19 PM

Now, I know what you're thinking: USPS's rapacious rates are not the store's fault, right? But then how does Amazon offer shipping - from the US, to the same address - at less than half that price?

I don't really know the answer for a certainty, but I suspect Amazon can negotiate better shipping prices because of the sheer quantity of goods it sends; bulk buy discount and all that. Ookoodook is way smaller, so I imagine they have to pay the 'standard' price. But yeah, that's helluva cost.

On topic; the dream sequence would make a good cliffhanger ending, but as this whole end-of-arc has been framed as The Race to Girard's Gate, I reckon we'll have o at least get there in this volume, and probably resolve the ensuing show-down too.

David Argall

2013-06-03, 07:11 PM

Now, as I have said before, it is possible to wrap up the book in about 1 page [X arrives and get in argument with LG. They ignore Belkar who sets off the Destroy-Gate goodie.] I assume several pages that will amount to the same thing. But our books have largely ended with a change of scene, which the party still battling here would not fit. We might be in doubt whether the book ends at xxx+1 or xxx+2, but even where we don't immediately know, we can routinely indentify which book is under discussion because there is a major difference in background. The story staying in the pyramid for the next book seems most unlikely.
Now we do need something to keep X from rushing to the final gate. That is what makes the Snarl's world so attractive. It can keep X from reaching the final gate.
We have been wondering about Durkon's prophecy. An idea here would be that the LG, including Durkon, heads North and causes trouble in dwarven lands as they try to reach the gate. [This might also mean the party is going to split again as some try to stop Nale while others go after X, but we don't have many party members left. So more likely we will just have cutaways.]
But we should be leaving the pyramid pretty soon.

The Giant

2013-06-03, 07:50 PM

OT, but I'm in New Zealand, and I just looked up the price of international shipping for the OOTS game from Ookoodook...

$60.95. $60 - freakin' - 95. I kid you not. There are two options, the basic ($60.95) and the deluxe 'boxed' (also $60.95). Not even NZ$, mind you, freakin' US$. Just for freight.

Now, I know what you're thinking: USPS's rapacious rates are not the store's fault, right? But then how does Amazon offer shipping - from the US, to the same address - at less than half that price?

Amazon is a multibillion dollar company with shipping centers all over the world and the ability to make drop shipments to their subsidiary warehouses. Ookoodook boxes its stuff up and brings it to the local post office. The two are not even remotely comparable. The fact that Amazon, the largest retail company in the world, is capable of doing something has no bearing on whether or not Ook can do it. Amazon probably ships more to New Zealand in a day than Ook has since it was founded.

(And I'm sure it wasn't like this 6 months ago, when I ordered a book as a Christmas present for my brother-in-law.)

The US Postal Service dramatically raised its overseas rates in January, bringing the cost of a medium Priority Mail box from around $45 to, yes, $59.95 (http://ircalc.usps.com/MailServices.aspx?country=10324&m=13&p=0&o=1&mt=12). With a $1 handling charge. This has been a huge drain of money on the Kickstarter project, in particular, because all of the autographed packages that I couldn't send out before then because of my injury had to pay the higher rate, essentially devouring all the surplus the drive had raised. If you ordered a single book before January, you probably paid no more than $17 in shipping; that envelope would now cost you $23.95. (http://ircalc.usps.com/MailServices.aspx?country=10324&m=13&p=0&o=1&mt=10)

It sucks. Ookoodook has no control over it. Every other shipping service available to it actually costs even more.

If anyone reading this has any connections or influence with Ookoodook, please tell them to sort their ideas out, because this is unacceptable.

Then don't order the game. You have that right. But unless you are volunteering to build us a Pacific distribution center, I don't see it changing in the near future.

137beth

2013-06-03, 08:09 PM

Could someone who has influence with Ookoodook please tell them to solve global warming? And don't say they can't do it because they are a tiny store and you would be asking them to solve a world-wide phenomenon, I mean, look at Pluto! It's so much colder there than it is here! If Amazon can manage to keep the average global temperature of Pluto below 0 degrees Celsius why the heck can't Ookoodook keep the Earth's temperature down!?!

Oh, and I bet it wasn't like that 200 years ago, when the world was getting hotter, but at a much slower rate. I mean, come on Ookoodook, can't you do something as simple as solve global warming and world hunger and sent me all my products for free while you're at it?

Sunken Valley

2013-06-03, 08:15 PM

Ten soul pieces the book ends before or on 900.

Current Strip (891) makes a good Denouement one.

CRtwenty

2013-06-04, 02:41 AM

Ten soul pieces the book ends before or on 900.

Current Strip (891) makes a good Denouement one.

I doubt it. I don't see the current arc ending in just nine strips.

rodneyAnonymous

2013-06-05, 09:31 PM

I doubt it. I don't see the current arc ending in just nine strips.

I can, especially if there are multiple pages per strip.

Amphiox

2013-06-07, 06:22 PM

ChristianSt

2013-06-07, 06:38 PM

There's no rule that says the books all have to have similar numbers of pages, or that some arbitrary number of pages is too much for a book.

There are limits how big books can be (or at least be mass market producible/usable), but I don't think that this will be relevant :smallwink:

Porthos

2013-06-07, 07:04 PM

There are limits how big books can be (or at least be mass market producible/usable), but I don't think that this will be relevant :smallwink:

Well the concern might more be price, but I'm fairly certain that the KS drive might have helped assuage some of his concerns. If he had any. :smallwink:

David Argall

2013-06-08, 11:39 AM

There's no rule that says the books all have to have similar numbers of pages, or that some arbitrary number of pages is too much for a book.

I seem to recall that Harry Potter 5 and Harry Potter 1 did not have anywhere near the same number of pages in them, for example....

The books will have the length that is most appropriate for the narrative, and end where it is most appropriate to end in the narrative.
Rules, no. But there are customs, barriers, market desires, ... To use a Dr. Phil, "The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior." That standard tells us the current volume is already long. and could end almost at any moment. We need a big confrontation scene, but what else? We have had an illusion scene, and our author is not one for revisiting territory. We can string in some ideas [Tarquin wandered away from the group. Why? V's moping might be leading to something...], but we don't seem to need much before we get to the big boom.
Betting on the book ending soon seems like the better bet.

sam79

2013-06-08, 12:01 PM

Well the concern might more be price, but I'm fairly certain that the KS drive might have helped assuage some of his concerns. If he had any. :smallwink:

I think the Kickstarter may well have eased some cash-flow/cost worries for the back catalogue, but not necessarily for the new book. There is no doubt that demand will be strong. However, I imagine that (as I think was the case for the previous print runs?) our author will rely on pre-orders to fund the cost of the new book. A concern there might be that a large(r) book (and one that will be in full colour) enforces a retail price-point that is beyond the reach of some potential customers.

Porthos

2013-06-08, 12:16 PM

I think the Kickstarter may well have eased some cash-flow/cost worries for the back catalogue, but not necessarily for the new book. There is no doubt that demand will be strong. However, I imagine that (as I think was the case for the previous print runs?) our author will rely on pre-orders to fund the cost of the new book. A concern there might be that a large(r) book (and one that will be in full colour) enforces a retail price-point that is beyond the reach of some potential customers.

Well the point I was trying to make was that the KS drive showed that a sizeable amount of people were willing to lay serious cash for OotS product.

Let me put it this way. Let's say that at one time Rich thought that he might only want to charge no more than $X for a book, for fear of pricing himself out of the market. But perhaps after the KS drive he now feels that he could indeed charge $X + $5 before he runs into that upper limit. Or maybe he's figured out a way to drive down costs.

Or maybe the story just ran long. Really long. :smalltongue: And as a side effect, he's going to bite the bullet and hope he doesn't price himself out of the market.

We'll know soon enough, I suppose.

137beth

2013-06-08, 04:11 PM

We need a big confrontation scene, but what else?
I don't need a "big confrontation," I just want a resolution to some of the character's developments and emotions. I don't really care about the fights.

Really, why the heck is it so hard for you to state your personal opinions as personal opinions?

sebmojo

2013-06-10, 09:53 PM

I don't need a "big confrontation," I just want a resolution to some of the character's developments and emotions. I don't really care about the fights.

Really, why the heck is it so hard for you to state your personal opinions as personal opinions?

Character develops through action. And confrontation is action, though not necessarily violence. But given the stakes and amount of murder potential we have converging on a single spot, can you see it not being violent?

sam79

2013-06-11, 07:22 AM

Well the point I was trying to make was that the KS drive showed that a sizeable amount of people were willing to lay serious cash for OotS product.

True enough, but there surely must be a point where some of that sizeable amount of people lose the ability, if not the willingness, to cough up for an OotS product (I'd include myself in that category).

Or maybe the story just ran long. Really long. :smalltongue:

This, I reckon.

And as a side effect, he's going to bite the bullet and hope he doesn't price himself out of the market.

We'll know soon enough, I suppose.

True. And I'm sure that our author has considered all the ramifications in far more detail and with far greater insight than us. This is his creation, his business and his livelihood, and he knows how many beans make five.

Porthos

2013-06-12, 01:59 AM

As of Strip #893:

Book
# of Online Strips
# of Online Pages
Xtra Pages
Total Book Pages

NCftPB

180

197

47

244

W&XP

183

242

46

288

DStP

188

226

46

272

Book 5

221+

250.75+

???

???

If the pattern holds, Book 5 is about 3 online pages or so from being 300 pages in total length.

More or less.

Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future returns.

These are only guidelines and should be used for entertainment purposes only.

Et Etc. :smalltongue:

theangelJean

2013-06-12, 06:41 AM

Something I'm not sure if anyone has brought up in the thread so far...

There is one limit on the potential size of the next book that hasn't been considered yet: the cost of actually printing a set of these books so that they can be sold, as compared to the amount of money The Giant has saved up. After all, this was an actual obstacle in the past when War and XPs cost $57k to reprint (for a non-full-size run), and Rich didn't have that money. I assume an even bigger book would cost more to print in the first place. And while plenty of webcomic authors nowadays run Kickstarter campaigns to fund the printing of new books, I suspect The Giant is no longer inclined to do so in the near future.

But I should probably refrain from speculating on the actual state of Mr Burlew's finances, so I'll just assume he's thought of that factor, and planned for it.

ChristianSt

2013-06-12, 11:23 AM

theangelJean

2013-06-13, 04:00 AM

That's a good point, one I'd forgotten. I guess that's the same reason the printing of Snips and Snails was funded by pre-orders. You're right, the demand for the next compilation should be more predictable.

David Argall

2013-06-13, 03:10 PM

Now that we are finally past the illusion, I start to worry[?] that the end of the book is not at all close.
We have Tarquin up to something. Might take a dozen strips.
V's moping is going to need some resolving. While much of that will fit in the next book, something will have to happen in this book, if nothing else, to get him to the next book.
X still needs to arrive, and once here, there will be a fuss
the Sending is apt to casue pages to go by.
Just about anything else could happen....
Of could we are thinking 5-10 pages more anyway, but those wanting a big book have grounds for hope [and for saving up some money.]

EmperorSarda

2013-06-13, 04:16 PM

X still needs to arrive, and once here, there will be a fuss

Xykon could arrive at or after the explosion of the Gate, while the sending to Haley gives them a greater sense of urgency.

Kish

2013-06-13, 04:30 PM

Xykon could arrive at or after the explosion of the Gate, while the sending to Haley gives them a greater sense of urgency.
*cough* "At," maybe, but I don't think the Oracle's prediction would be fulfilled by Xykon arriving within 1000 feet of the place where Girard's Gate used to be.

EmperorSarda

2013-06-14, 12:27 PM

*cough* "At," maybe, but I don't think the Oracle's prediction would be fulfilled by Xykon arriving within 1000 feet of the place where Girard's Gate used to be.

Crikey, you're right. I was thinking that Roy said rift for a moment in his question to the Oracle. I guess not. Well that definitely increases urgency then.

Olinser

2013-06-14, 12:33 PM

*cough* "At," maybe, but I don't think the Oracle's prediction would be fulfilled by Xykon arriving within 1000 feet of the place where Girard's Gate used to be.

BUT.... if in the destruction of the Gate, the Gate is catapulted somewhere else mostly intact (but no longer around the rift), and Xykon is within 1000 feet of THAT location, that would be exactly the kind of technicality the Oracle loves.

I know that's off the wall, but it's fun to think about :smallbiggrin:

KyrtFurey

2013-06-17, 10:50 AM

David Argall

2013-06-18, 12:04 PM

137beth

2013-06-18, 12:43 PM

And the worries become more and more serious. We could still wrap it up in a few pages, but this detour could be very long too. Better start saving money for the next book.

Unless it is a double bluff, or, oh, let's see:
maybe they won't find the gate in this book.

David Argall

2013-06-18, 11:11 PM

Unless it is a double bluff, or, oh, let's see:
maybe they won't find the gate in this book.
It does not fit the style shown so far. The booked is announced and features a splash page. Also we have a change of scenery and or theme. We thus have not had an end of the book yet, and so we need to dream up 200 pages instead of the 50? we can posit.
Now we could have had such a break when the party flew off to the gate. The picture becomes the pyramid instead of wandering the desert. And the theme changes from reaching the gate to fighting over it. But now we are well into the battle, and splitting that into another book won't do.
I have also suggested the next book is in the Snarl's world. That produces a change in location and theme. And having had one look at the world, we are very likely to get more. And we could have all sorts of ideas there.

137beth

2013-06-18, 11:57 PM

It does not fit the style shown so far. The booked is announced and features a splash page. Also we have a change of scenery and or theme. We thus have not had an end of the book yet, and so we need to dream up 200 pages instead of the 50? we can posit.
Now we could have had such a break when the party flew off to the gate. The picture becomes the pyramid instead of wandering the desert. And the theme changes from reaching the gate to fighting over it. But now we are well into the battle, and splitting that into another book won't do.
I have also suggested the next book is in the Snarl's world. That produces a change in location and theme. And having had one look at the world, we are very likely to get more. And we could have all sorts of ideas there.

So you defined an axiom which asserts that they have to find the gate by the end of the book...
and use it to show that they have to find the gate by the end of the book.

Do you have any justification for your Axiom of Gate Finding?

David Argall

2013-06-19, 11:01 PM

So you defined an axiom which asserts that they have to find the gate by the end of the book...
and use it to show that they have to find the gate by the end of the book.

Do you have any justification for your Axiom of Gate Finding?

I mentioned several.
We start with a splash page, which we have not had.
We have the strip taking a break while the volume is prepared, which has also not happened.
We have a change in theme. Dungeon delving, get to Azure city and getting the big plot, battle for the city/gate, The party trying to reunite, on the way to the next gate. [Now if we had stopped when the party was about to reach the next gate, or just had reached the pyramid, this would be met, but instead we just sailed past this point.]
We have a change in scenery. Dungeon-countryside-Azure city-various-desert. And we are still in the desert.
Dramatic end for the book-defeat of X, announcement of the army attacking Azure City, AC conquered, Party sailing off to the next gate. We just don't have such a dramatic picture until the Gate goes boom.
There just has not been the signs of the ends of the book.

ChristianSt

2013-06-20, 03:32 AM

Unless it is a double bluff, or, oh, let's see:
maybe they won't find the gate in this book.

It does not fit the style shown so far.
<snip>

So you defined an axiom which asserts that they have to find the gate by the end of the book...
and use it to show that they have to find the gate by the end of the book.

Do you have any justification for your Axiom of Gate Finding?

I mentioned several.
<snip>

137ben didn't say anything about when the book should end.
But the ending of the book (which I think we will instantly know that it is the ending of the book) doesn't require do have anything to do with finding the Gate.
While I think you are right with your arguments about the book ending in general, you have no arguments why 137ben's speculation about not finding the gate is right or wrong.
Unless you say the only way of having a possible ending is by finding the gate, but I'm not sure of that, Rich did surprise us numerous times, so I think he could end the book without a gate showing up. And I would say "party sailing off to the next gate" wasn't really dramatic, so no real need for that.

Dr. Gamera

2013-06-21, 11:49 AM

Unless it is a double bluff [...]

137ben for the win!

Gift Jeraff

2013-07-09, 08:29 PM

Updated Porthos's chart for #898 (because I was curious and Googled this thread):

{table]|Book | # of Online Strips |# of Online Pages | Xtra Pages | Total Book Pages|
|NCftPB|
180 |
197 |
47 |
244|
|W&XP |
183 |
242 |
46 |
288 |
|DStP |
188 |
226 |
46 |
272|
|Book 5 |
226+ |
257.75+ |
??? |
???|[/table]

FlawedParadigm

2013-07-10, 04:26 AM

Starting to think the title may need to be a pun off of "doorstop."

Porthos

2013-07-14, 02:50 PM

As of 900:

Book
# of Online Strips
# of Online Pages
Xtra Pages
Total Book Pages

NCftPB

180

197

47

244

W&XP

183

242

46

288

DStP

188

226

46

272

Book 5

228+

259.75+

???

???

12 pages away from the Online Comic portion of the book equaling the total size of DStP.

Rakoa

2013-07-14, 02:55 PM

Perhaps we are already into Book 6 now and Rich forgot to tell us.

Porthos

2013-07-14, 02:57 PM

Perhaps we are already into Book 6 now and Rich forgot to tell us.

I doubt it. Sometime last year he said the end of Book 5 was (paraphrasing) 'a long way off'. Considering we had three months of no updates, I'm figuring, once again, the tale grew in the telling. :smallwink:

I'll also note that when it comes to binding the book, I've seen far larger graphic novels. So that's not the issue. The only concern might be pricing himself out of the market.

But Rich is notoriously (and rightly) prickly when it comes to people critiquing his business model. So I will simply presume he's run the numbers and is comfortable with rolling the dice on a pricey book.

And, if need be, it's not like he doesn't have options when it comes to fundraising. :smalltongue:

NOTE: Yes, I KNOW he's said that he ain't doing another KS anytime soon. Especially with rewards yet to be delivered. I am simply sayin' that if need be he could run off a quick no-frills KS with minimal incentives that required almost no new work on his part and have little worries making whatever goal he needed to reach.

I highly doubt he will. I am simply noting, he could. If he needed to. Which I doubt he will. But he could.

Even if he won't. :smallwink:

SaintRidley

2013-07-14, 08:05 PM

Looks like I was wrong about it being 895 ± 5.

Looking forward to seeing what we get next.

FlawedParadigm

2013-07-15, 08:00 AM

Or at this point it might even be best to just run with it for awhile and then sell it as two books so people can get each separately if the price needs to be broken up.

Gift Jeraff

2013-07-15, 11:10 AM

While I highly doubt Book 5 has already ended, that did get me thinking: could the previous books be hypothetically split into two?

Book "1A" would end at either #043 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0043.html) or #072 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0072.html). While #043 is a better cliffhanger, the Hilgya/Banjo chapter is probably a better book opener.

Book 2A would end at #197 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0197.html). Big panel that ups the ante. Book 2B begins with character redesigns (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0198.html). Makes sense.

Book 3 works almost perfectly as 2 books, splitting at #400 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0400.html). #401 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0401.html) even works as a recap!

Book 4A would consist of #485 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0485.html)-500 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0500.html), #510 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0510.html)-540 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0540.html), #564 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0564.html)-581 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0581.html), #600 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0600.html)-622 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0622.html), and the "Get Roy" bonus chapter. Book 4B would be everything else. The Team Evil chapter (#541 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0541.html)-550 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0550.html)) could go in either book, really. This split would require some tweaking (namely a "X Months Later/Earlier..." for every time jump), but I can honestly see it working.

As has been suggested before, #822 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0822.html) and #833 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html) could work as decent endings. They both have a "the villains are on the move" thing going for them, like how Book 2 actually ends. #833 even has a nice big panel.

The problem all these hypothetical splits have is that things would get really dramatic/heated really early on (Nale stabbing Elan, OOTS vs Miko, Shojo's death, the Resistance falling, Tsukiko's death, the mummified Draketooths, etc.).

David Argall

2013-07-15, 12:06 PM

Looks like I was wrong about it being 895 ± 5.

Looking forward to seeing what we get next.
Well, you don't look to be far wrong. I'd say 905, plus or minus 5.

Sunken Valley

2013-07-15, 12:13 PM

Damn I lose my bet.

@Porthos: Where did Mr Giant say it was a long way. I vaguely remember such a quote happening Early 2011 (the Arena Arc) but not sure.

hamishspence

2013-07-15, 12:18 PM

While I highly doubt Book 5 has already ended, that did get me thinking: could the previous books be hypothetically split into two?

They're already split into chapters- that's probably the simplest way to divide them up.

Book 1 has 5 "Rounds"
Book 2 has 8 (and an Epilogue)
Book 3 has 8 (no Epilogue)
Book 4 has 9 (no Epilogue)

I'm not sure if 4 Rounds is enough for a minibook to work.

Gift Jeraff

2013-07-15, 12:36 PM

They're already split into chapters- that's probably the simplest way to divide them up.

Book 1 has 5 "Rounds"
Book 2 has 8 (and an Epilogue)
Book 3 has 8 (no Epilogue)
Book 4 has 9 (no Epilogue)

I'm not sure if 4 Rounds is enough for a minibook to work.

I know, but I was talking about being split specifically into two. You'll note that all of my hypothetical book splits are at the end of a round/chapter.

EDIT: Although speaking of rounds, I wonder how Book 5 will be divided. #673 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0673.html)-698 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html), #699 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0699.html)-709 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0709.html), #775 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0775.html)-822 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0822.html), and #823 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0823.html)-833 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html) seem like obvious chapters.

Nimrod's Son

2013-07-15, 06:13 PM

Although speaking of rounds, I wonder how Book 5 will be divided. #673 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0673.html)-698 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html), #699 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0699.html)-709 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0709.html), #775 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0775.html)-822 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0822.html), and #823 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0823.html)-833 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html) seem like obvious chapters.
So far I'd kinda seen it as:

Round One - Sandsedge (#673 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0673.html)-#682 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0682.html))
Round Two - Great Barren Desert (#683 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0683.html)-#698 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html))
Round Three - Gobbotopia (#699 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0699.html)-#709 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0709.html))
Round Four - Empire of Blood (#710 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0710.html)-#741 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0741.html))
Round Five - Reunion Festivities (#742 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0742.html)-#785 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0785.html))
Round Six - Return of the Linear Guild (#786 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0786.html)-#822 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0822.html))
Round Seven - Fall of the Resistance (#823 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0823.html)-#833 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html))
Round Eight - Girard's Pyramid (#834 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0834.html)-#863 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0863.html))
Round Nine - Vampires (#864 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0864.html)-#881 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0881.html))
Round Ten - Blowing the Gate (#882 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0882.html)-Present)

No comment on whether we're currently in the last chapter. :smalltongue:

That would give us at least ten rounds, which is more than any book so far but then this is looking to be the longest book to date, and that's where the story beats feel most right to me. I guess the Sandsedge & desert sections could easily be combined into a single first chapter but I kinda prefer it split between the two. Also interesting to note that the point Rich injured his thumb works pretty much perfectly as an interval in the Linear Guild fight in the pyramid. :smallamused:

Ted The Bug

2013-07-15, 06:19 PM

I've reached that point where I'm feeling so antsy for the book, even though it probably won't be available til at least October (considering the wait for DStP). I love the online comic and all, but nothing beats having a physical copy for me, and the author commentary is fantastic. I'm especially looking forward to what #5 might have regarding the Kickstarter, and the behind-the-scenes managing thereof.

Not to mention any bonus comics...even if Rich keeps those to a minimum because of the size of the book, I'm excited for em. I feel like there's a lot of fun to be had with Tarquin's big feast that couldn't be included in the online comic but would fit perfectly in a book.

Oh! And the color! I want to see the color scheme. And the title, of course. And the preface and intro and all that.

I might be anticipating this just a bit. Maybe.

Porthos

2013-07-15, 08:37 PM

Damn I lose my bet.

@Porthos: Where did Mr Giant say it was a long way. I vaguely remember such a quote happening Early 2011 (the Arena Arc) but not sure.

Buried somewhere in the KS drive comments, from what I recall. I remember this because it was in the context of KS purely for Book 5/letting people pledge an extra amount for Book 5.

I'm not about to go searching through it all to find it though. :smalltongue:

SaintRidley

2013-07-17, 02:32 PM

As of 901:

{table]|Book | # of Online Strips |# of Online Pages | Xtra Pages | Total Book Pages|
|NCftPB|
180 |
197 |
47 |
244|
|W&XP |
183 |
242 |
46 |
288 |
|DStP |
188 |
226 |
46 |
272|
|Book 5 |
229+ |
261.75+ |
??? |
???|[/table]

Now ten pages from the online pages equalling the total of DStP. And closing in on War & XPs as well.

Ninja Dragon

2013-07-17, 03:49 PM

Sylthia

2013-07-17, 04:51 PM

Porthos

2013-07-17, 05:00 PM

Well, I guess it's time. I don't give 10 more strips for this book to end. The McGuffin is gone and Xykon has left the scene. Only the Silicon elemental and the Linear Guild still pose a threat, but the later may also just leave since they also came for the gate.

Well, I dunno. Last time a Gate blew up, there was 20 more updates before the book ended.

Deal with the elemental.
Deal a bit more with the V storyline.
Some sort of sign of what is going on with Team Tarquin.
Team OOTS planning for the Next Step.

Even if they aren't resolved, I think there is going going to be some sort of look at V and Team Tarquin.

---

Climaxes of books:

DCF: Xykon defeated in #114. Book ends in Comic #121 (technically). Eight total online pages.
NCftPB: Miko defeated in #285. Book ends in Comic #301 (technically). Nineteen total online pages.
W&XPs: Gate Explodes in #463. Book ends in Comic #484. Thirty three total online pages.
DStP: V and O-Chul Escape in #661. Book ends in Comic #672. Fourteen total online pages.

I suppose if one wants to quibble with the climax of W&XPs instead being the when the boat set sail from the harbor in #481, I suppose I could buy that. But that seems to be in the anti-climax stage of the book, personally.

Now, as always, past performance and future returns blah blah blah. But I'm be willing to bet that we just saw the climax of this book when the Gate exploded. With Team Evil bugging out, we're in the mop-up stage.

Since W&XPs was probably the anomaly, the book might be anywhere from five to fifteen pages from ending (being three pages into the anti-climax). Five seems way to short to handle everything I noted above. But beyond that, I really can't hope to guess.

David Argall

2013-07-17, 11:11 PM

Well, I dunno. Last time a Gate blew up, there was 20 more updates before the book ended.
There were a lot of loose ends to deal with in Azure City. Far worse than here.

Deal with the elemental.
Deal a bit more with the V storyline.
Some sort of sign of what is going on with Team Tarquin.
Team OOTS planning for the Next Step.
Each of these are about a one page update. monster fights just don't get much space in this strip. Nor have the fiends have had extended appearances. And planning doesn't take much space either.

Climaxes of books:

DCF: Xykon defeated in #114. Book ends in Comic #121 (technically). Eight total online pages.
NCftPB: Miko defeated in #285. Book ends in Comic #301 (technically). Nineteen total online pages.
W&XPs: Gate Explodes in #463. Book ends in Comic #484. Thirty three total online pages.
DStP: V and O-Chul Escape in #661. Book ends in Comic #672. Fourteen total online pages.
DFC: Xykon was not defeated until 115. In 114 he was still "alive".
NCftPB: The defeat of Miko is only a minor plot point that signals noting about the new plot direction. It was Roy acceptance in 293 that marks a change in the plot.
W&XP: 463 is probably best here as it shows the scene is soon to change. But the party has several tasks to complete first, a situation different from the current case.
DStP: The escape is just another event in the book. It is raising Roy in 665 that marks the end of the book.

Since W&XPs was probably the anomaly, the book might be anywhere from five to fifteen pages from ending (being three pages into the anti-climax). Five seems way to short to handle everything I noted above. But beyond that, I really can't hope to guess.
Now we don't know how much our writer might pad the plot, but we can finish in 2-3 pages with no crowding. and since the book is already running long, keeping the rest tight is a possible goal. 10 pages is likely long.

Porthos

2013-07-18, 02:16 AM

Now we don't know how much our writer might pad the plot, but we can finish in 2-3 pages with no crowding.

What you call 'padding' others call 'telling a story'. :smalltongue: I kinda doubt Rich is all that concerned with racing through things 'with no crowding', as you put it.

Also, the last two books have ended on three page spreads, and the two before that* two page spreads. I kinda doubt Rich is going to end this book without some multi-page finale.

NOTE: I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong again. But I will think I will take the Over on a mooted Over/Under in regards to 3 pages before the end of the book. :smallwink:

* Not counting the Mail Call and Intermission strips

David Argall

2013-07-18, 12:13 PM

What you call 'padding' others call 'telling a story'. :smalltongue: I kinda doubt Rich is all that concerned with racing through things 'with no crowding', as you put it.

Also, the last two books have ended on three page spreads, and the two before that* two page spreads. I kinda doubt Rich is going to end this book without some multi-page finale.

NOTE: I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong again. But I will think I will take the Over on a mooted Over/Under in regards to 3 pages before the end of the book.
I would too, but by 10 pages I would take the under.
Let's look at what needs to be wrapped up. The LG...
...maybe is watching this bother. Our vampire says "now I get to kill Nale." Nale objects, "Wait, there still is another gate." And Taruin judges, "We will have to try for it." It would be crowding to get that in one frame, there is room to spare in a page.
And the other points are much the same, doable in a frame if we really want to, which we likely don't, but fully covered in a page, maybe 2. So we throw in a splash page to show the upcoming themes, and we have change left over from 10 pages. It's not like we have to find Roy's body and recover it from a powerful monster while fleeing a burning city. There really isn't much to do here.

ti'esar

2013-07-18, 01:45 PM

And it looks like I can now add "padding" to my list of critical terms the internet is not capable of using.

Surprised it took this long, really.

Gift Jeraff

2013-07-19, 11:35 AM

So far I'd kinda seen it as:

Round One - Sandsedge (#673 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0673.html)-#682 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0682.html))
Round Two - Great Barren Desert (#683 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0683.html)-#698 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html))
Round Three - Gobbotopia (#699 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0699.html)-#709 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0709.html))
Round Four - Empire of Blood (#710 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0710.html)-#741 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0741.html))
Round Five - Reunion Festivities (#742 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0742.html)-#785 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0785.html))
Round Six - Return of the Linear Guild (#786 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0786.html)-#822 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0822.html))
Round Seven - Fall of the Resistance (#823 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0823.html)-#833 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html))
Round Eight - Girard's Pyramid (#834 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0834.html)-#863 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0863.html))
Round Nine - Vampires (#864 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0864.html)-#881 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0881.html))
Round Ten - Blowing the Gate (#882 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0882.html)-Present)

No comment on whether we're currently in the last chapter. :smalltongue:

That would give us at least ten rounds, which is more than any book so far but then this is looking to be the longest book to date, and that's where the story beats feel most right to me. I guess the Sandsedge & desert sections could easily be combined into a single first chapter but I kinda prefer it split between the two. Also interesting to note that the point Rich injured his thumb works pretty much perfectly as an interval in the Linear Guild fight in the pyramid. :smallamused:

I like your split of Sandsedge/Great Barren Desert. Makes sense. And the Windy Canyon chapters seem right.

For the Empire of Blood I was thinking:
-Bounty Hunters (#710 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0710.html)-#731 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0731.html))
-Getting to Know the Empire (#732 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0732.html)-#752 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0752.html))
-Daddy Issues (#753 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0753.html)-#774 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0774.html))
-Battles (#775 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0775.html)-#822 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0822.html))

or
-Day 1 (#710 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0710.html)-#747 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0747.html))
-Day 2 (#748 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0748.html)-#774 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0774.html))
-Day 3 (#775 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0775.html)-#822 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0822.html))

I feel splitting the gladiator bit right before the LG attacks kinda spoils the surprise (for people reading the book first), even if everyone knew it was coming. Although I suppose if it's called Championship Match, Title Fight, etc. or something along those lines, it could work.

Porthos

2013-07-19, 12:43 PM

That would give us at least ten rounds, which is more than any book so far but then this is looking to be the longest book to date, and that's where the story beats feel most right to me.

True, but W&XP, the previously longest book, had 8 chapters while DStP had 9 and NCftPB had 10 (if one counts the epilogue).

So far, size really hasn't been the determining factor.

Furthermore, the chapters guessing for DStP was somewhat subverted since there were two chapters placed in the middle of the telling of the story that we had no way of knowing it was coming. If Rich does that again, a lot of our calculations go out the window. :smallwink:

137beth

2013-07-20, 01:36 AM

DFC: Xykon was not defeated until 115. In 114 he was still "alive".
NCftPB: The defeat of Miko is only a minor plot point that signals noting about the new plot direction. It was Roy acceptance in 293 that marks a change in the plot.
W&XP: 463 is probably best here as it shows the scene is soon to change. But the party has several tasks to complete first, a situation different from the current case.
DStP: The escape is just another event in the book. It is raising Roy in 665 that marks the end of the book.
Whuh?!? Miko being defeated is definitely the climax of Ncfpb, Elan even says so.
In DStp, there is virtually nothing climactic about Roy being resurrected, and everything climactic about the V vs Xykon fight, so...huh:smallconfused:?

sam79

2013-07-20, 03:22 AM

Whuh?!? Miko being defeated is definitely the climax of Ncfpb, Elan even says so.
In DStp, there is virtually nothing climactic about Roy being resurrected, and everything climactic about the V vs Xykon fight, so...huh:smallconfused:?

Agree somewhat for NCftPB.

Disagree for DStP. Roy's death (or rather his appearence in the afterlife) starts the book, and his ressurection ends it. It seems reasonable to regard Roy's return as the climax of the book's main arc.

Darth V's fight with the Big X is perhaps more dramatic, but it is not (IMO), a climax, because the story has not been building towards it in the same way as it has to Roy's return. V only decides to fight Xykon one strip before the fight starts (if I remember rightly). It is the climax of V's arc in the book perhaps, but not the climax of the book IMO.

Porthos

2013-07-24, 03:42 PM

(Apologies to Emmerson, Lake and Palmer and with Love and Affection to Rich Burlew :smallsmile:)

(To the tune of Karn Evil 9: 1st Impression, Part II
Popularly known as Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends)

Welcome back, my friends
to the book that never ends.
We're so glad you're onboard!
Read along, read along.

There behind a dune of sand
lies our noble band
making a valiant stand.

Read along, the plot's just gotten hot
It's going to blow your mind apart.
Never fear, you'll get your money's worth
The greatest book it happens a hell-a-lot.

You've got to read the book, its got quite the hook.
You've got to read the book, it'll roll and rock.

Et Etc. :smallsmile:

Kish

2013-07-24, 04:25 PM

DFC:
Would that be Dungeon Fawling Crools, or Dungeon Fools Crawling, Argall?

martianmister

2013-07-24, 08:45 PM

Would that be Dungeon Fawling Crools, or Dungeon Fools Crawling, Argall?

Dungeon Fooling Crawlers.

LadyEowyn

2013-07-24, 09:05 PM

Maybe this book won't have as many bonus strips as the previous ones, bringing its length more in line with theirs. There's not a lot of places in which to fit extra strips - the existing ones pretty much cover what everyone did in the Empire of Blood and at Girard's Gate - so unless Rich wants to add bonus strips of the Semi-Elemental Plane of Ranch Dressing, or ones focusing on characters other than the order (e.g., Tarquin's backstory, Ian Starshine, Team Evil) there's not a lot to add.

I expect this arc to last a little longer - we need to finish the battle with the Sand Elemental and still have a proper denoument, which will take some time, especially if V meets up with the rest of the Order before it happens. (Although I'm beginning to wonder if V will rejoin the rest of the Order before the book ends/they leave the desert; if the sand elemental only lasts 2 minutes, it's only been ~5 minutes, max, since the fiends took V; they've got another ~15 minutes, which is a long time in this strip.

It's pretty much unquestionable that Tarquin et al will be heading for the final gate for the big climax - this book has spent far too much time introducing them (over 100 strips) for their role to be limited to just one book.

I'd put the end of the book at 920 at earliest.

Porthos

2013-07-29, 02:02 PM

Well, I dunno. Last time a Gate blew up, there was 20 more updates before the book ended.

6 updates with 10 pages and counting. :smallwink:

Deal with the elemental.
Ongoing.

Deal a bit more with the V storyline.
Done, but I now suspect Team OotS will be reunited by books end. So more to do on this front, possibly.

Some sort of sign of what is going on with Team Tarquin.
:smalleek: :smalleek: :smalleek: :smalleek:

...

Ongoing. :smalltongue:

Team OOTS planning for the Next Step.
Not done yet.

====

As of 906:

Book
# of Online Strips
# of Online Pages
Xtra Pages
Total Book Pages

NCftPB

180

197

47

244

W&XP

183

242

46

288

DStP

188

226

46

272

Book 5

234+

267.75+

???

???

4 pages away from the Online Comic portion of the book equaling the total size of DStP.
20 pages away from the Online Comic portion of the book equaling the total size of W&XPs.

Ted The Bug

2013-07-29, 02:29 PM

Porthos

2013-07-29, 02:57 PM

This book is getting to be Epic Level...
I'm wondering if, however unlikely, its huge size will make it too large to fit much bonus content without making the book unwieldy, and instead contains some kind of coupon code for a print version of the KS stories.

99% not gonna happen. But would at least solve the size issue while still delivering extra content to the buyers.

Serching Amazon, I've found graphic novels over 500 pages in length. And that doesn't even get into regular novels that we all know of that are really long.

So I don't think having an unwieldy book is a huge concern. Or even if it was, Rich has already crossed that Rubicon without looking back. :smallwink:

Bubble

2013-08-02, 11:27 AM

It's gonna be a long one!

In terms of raw comic count (not pages), we have:
Book 1: 121
Book 2: 180
Book 3: 183
Book 4: 188
Book 5: 235 (as of strip #907)

Things seem to be wrapping up pretty quickly now. Give a few more strips for Durkon to take care of the Linear Guild, V to get back in the game, and the Order to finish off the sand elemental and we're looking at around 6 to 10 more comics in the book. At the rate Rich has been going, we'll finish up in a few months.

I'm curious if Rich has enough funds leftover from the Kickstarter to print book 5 sans preorders. I'd like to think I'll be getting book 5 for Christmas but more realistically I'm guessing spring of 2014 would be more realistic.

Getting excited! :smallsmile:

NerdyKris

2013-08-02, 11:38 AM

I don't believe any book has had pre-orders except for Snips Snails and Dragon Tales, due to it being a special case. All other books were only offered when they were printed and in stock. Also, he has to do all the extra material for the book, which could take several more months. I wouldn't expect to see it until next year at the earliest.

And that's assuming we're even wrapping up this book anytime soon. There could very well be another arc after this.

Chessgeek

2013-08-02, 11:45 AM

I'm curious if Rich has enough funds leftover from the Kickstarter to print book 5 sans preorders.

Nope. The Kickstarter money has been spent.

But yeah, I'm looking forward to another OotS book. The commentary for this one especially.

SavageWombat

2013-08-02, 12:02 PM

But yeah, I'm looking forward to another OotS book. The commentary for this one especially.

This x10.

I don't care how long the book is, but I wonder if it comes with some logistical problems.

David Argall

2013-08-02, 12:12 PM

And that's assuming we're even wrapping up this book anytime soon. There could very well be another arc after this.
Seems unlikely. X is on his way to the last gate and the party knows this. They are leaving the area ASAP. Another arc can be forced in, but it would be just that. And the book is long as it is.

Diadem

2013-08-02, 12:38 PM

Yeah the only way I see the current book last for significantly more than another dozen or so strips is if they fleet through the gate, causing an adventure there. However even if that happens Rich might still make that the next book. Probably will, given the length of the current one.

Porthos

2013-08-02, 01:10 PM

Nope. The Kickstarter money has been spent.

Well, Rich had said previously that he 'set aside' money from the KS drive toward the printing of Book 5. That may or may not still be the case, even with the increase of postal fees.

Spoomeister

2013-08-02, 01:20 PM

Porthos

2013-08-02, 01:22 PM

Who says he can't simply cut off the next book at some strip we've already seen?

Because he hasn't not told us before?

Because if he had, he'd have printed it to make money?

Besides, though I can't find it right now, during the KS drive he said, IIRC, that book 5 wasn't close to being finished yet.

So, no, I think we're just in for a doorstopper of a book. As we've been discussing in this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277004). :smallwink:

Bubble

2013-08-02, 01:26 PM

Who says he can't simply cut off the next book at some strip we've already seen?

The last strips per book are always fairly dramatic.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0120.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0300.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0484.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html

We haven't seen anything like this.

Plus, his books have a fairly contained central plot. The dessert continent plot line will most likely contained to just this book.

Chessgeek

2013-08-02, 01:59 PM

Well, Rich had said previously that he 'set aside' money from the KS drive toward the printing of Book 5. That may or may not still be the case, even with the increase of postal fees.

I missed it then, sorry. Either way it's a non-issue; I'm sure Rich is quite capable of managing his money and publishing the next book without pre-orders simply off of the reprint sales.

Randall Silver

2013-08-03, 05:16 AM

Hey guys, I've been a huge fan of OOTS for years now, and I bought all the books. As I'm hardly ever on the forum, can someone please answer this question?

When is the next book coming out? I mean, it's been YEARS since "Don't Split the Party!" Literally: I have the first print, and that was november 2009. Now, I know Rich is probably very busy with other stuff, which is why we sometimes have to wait 2 weeks for a new strip, but I'd love to at least get a date on this.

So, I'm hoping there's no other thread for this, as I didn't see one (as I said: I'm here once a year or so) , and I'm also hoping I didn't miss the book, because that would make me cry like Belkar who can't slit an old man's throat just because Roy told him so.

Bulldog Psion

2013-08-03, 05:20 AM

Well, you can fill in with Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales in the interim. :smallsmile:

Kish

2013-08-03, 05:21 AM

After the strips which will comprise it have all gone up on the site.

I'd say "probably pretty soon, relatively speaking," but people have been predicting the end of this book for at least fifty strips now.

Rich isn't going to tell anyone here how many strips are left in the currently-being-developed book, much less take a stab at a release date; that would be way too much of a giveaway.

Randall Silver

2013-08-03, 07:36 AM

Bulldog mind blaster: have it, read it about 3 times so far. :-( Good advice though.

Kish: I think all the strips are there now, don't you? "War and XP's" had 182 strips, "Don't Split the Party" had 187. So now, 235 strips (and three and a half years) later, there's still no new book in sight! And how big is that going to be when it already has 48 strips more so far??

I could be mistaken, but I think I remember Rich saying somewhere that it would take 7 books in total to finish this epic stick figure tale of awesomeness. That means, at this rate, it will take almost another decade to get there! Do the math!

Now, I don't have the attention span of a sparrow, but isn't that a bit extreme? I'll finish "A Song of Ice and Fire" before then, and Martin isn't exactly writing a book a year...

Disclaimer: please don't confuse this innocent rant with trolling, or hating Rich and/or OOTS. The reason why I post this, is because I love it so much, and I think it's going reeeaaaally slow these last years.

Case in point:

- Dungeon Crawlin' Fools: 02/2005
- On the Origin of PC's: 09(?) 2005
- No Cure for the Paladin Blues: 07 (?) 2006
- Start of Darkness: 05/2007
- War and XP's: 08/2008
- Don't Split the Party: 11/2009
- I'll add this little one as well, just to be precise, even if most were just a collection from earlier Dragon magazines and stuff: Snips, Snails and Dragon Tales: 03/2011

And then there was silence.

Kish

2013-08-03, 07:49 AM

Kish: I think all the strips are there now, don't you?
No, because this part of the story hasn't ended yet. Number of strips isn't the point; if we don't see any kind of "End of Book 5" panel or "This is a splash page for the end of the book" fourth-wall-breaking call-out, the book's not done. Yes, it will certainly be the largest book yet. No, it probably won't go on very much longer, but, again, people have been predicting its end for at least the last 50 strips.

Vinsfeld

2013-08-03, 09:43 AM

Kish: I think all the strips are there now, don't you? "War and XP's" had 182 strips, "Don't Split the Party" had 187. So now, 235 strips (and three and a half years) later, there's still no new book in sight! And how big is that going to be when it already has 48 strips more so far??!

It's not about the number of strips, it's about the story. No one would like to see this book ending right after, say, the explosion of the gate. It would leave some plots unfinished (like what happened to the Order, team evil and the Linear Guild). So, I don't think this is as bad as you think.

There's also the kickstarter rewards that the Giant is still working on and the injure he suffered last year. These kinds of things kinda delayed the comic. The Giant himself said that somewhere in the forums. So.... Just wait.

Given the story now, I don't think it will be long to end this arc and the book.

rgrekejin

2013-08-03, 10:48 AM

I think all the strips are there now, don't you? "War and XP's" had 182 strips, "Don't Split the Party" had 187. So now, 235 strips (and three and a half years) later, there's still no new book in sight! And how big is that going to be when it already has 48 strips more so far??

Number of strips doesn't matter. What matters is the number of pages. There have been far fewer double-page updates in the 235 strips that have come out since the end of "Don't Split the Party", so even though there have been way more strips, there haven't been quite so many pages. I know someone (I think it's Porthos, but I could be wrong) keeps a running count of actual pages per book, but I can't find it right now. At the moment, I believe that the latest book is indeed longer than "War and XPs", but only by a few pages so far.

LadyEowyn

2013-08-03, 11:34 AM

Physical size, though an issue, is less of a problem than having a book that remains within the financial constraints of most prospective readers. Prices go up with book size because print costs go up. DSTP is $30, W&XP is $33. This one has a fair ways to go before it ends (aside from ending the current fight, it needs to set up transport to the next gate and - especially - deal with V's and Vampire Durkon's troubled reunions with the party). Add bonus strips to that and the cost adds up. A little more is fine, but something around $40 is pretty steep and would probably attract less purchasers.

I believe that's the main reason why Rich has mentioned in the past that he'd prefer to keep future books smaller, or at least no larger, than W&XP. Clearly that didn't happen here. I've loved the story, though (especially the Gobbotopia events and stuff in Girard's pyramid; the first bit was just okay and events in the Empire of Blood, although they had some very strong points, seemed to drag out a little.)

Porthos

2013-08-03, 03:24 PM

I know someone (I think it's Porthos, but I could be wrong) keeps a running count of actual pages per book, but I can't find it right now. At the moment, I believe that the latest book is indeed longer than "War and XPs", but only by a few pages so far.

27 pages and counting for the online portions of the respective books. :smallsmile:

This thread is where I have been keeping track of it. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277004)

Porthos

2013-08-03, 03:27 PM

Since this is getting asked in other threads, might as well update the running totals. :smallsmile:

As of 907:

Book
# of Online Strips
# of Online Pages
Xtra Pages
Total Book Pages

NCftPB

180

197

47

244

W&XP

183

242

46

288

DStP

188

226

46

272

Book 5

235+

268.75+

???

???

3 pages away from the Online Comic portion of the book equaling the total size of DStP.
19 pages away from the Online Comic portion of the book equaling the total size of W&XPs.

ManuelSacha

2013-08-03, 03:35 PM

People counting the pages and then declaring that the next book can't possibly be that much longer than the previous ones (you see, it's impossible because it's never been done before).

People counting the pages and complaining that they don't see the end of it.

They always crack me up. :smallbiggrin:

Mad Humanist

2013-08-03, 04:13 PM

IGiven the story now, I don't think it will be long to end this arc and the book.

I can count at least five plot points that need to be resolved.

Nale escaping or appearing to die
Defeating the Silicon elemental
Tarquin returning
Varsuvius returning to the Party
The party heaving a sigh of relief

I'm guessing each will need a strip and with other plot twists I expect we'll finish at 920.

Randall Silver

2013-08-03, 04:18 PM

Who's complaining about the lenght of the story, exactly? I'm just saying it's a slow progress. Most books I read take a lot longer to finish the entire story (Deathgate Cycle, Wheel of Time, Song of Ice and Fire,...). So, the longer the story, the happier I am. It's just the waiting for the next part which can make me complain. One year? No problem. Close to four years? Well, that's a bit long, isn't it? It's like waiting for the next Blizzard game which has been anounced for years.

As for the people counting the pages: what's wrong with them? It helps to find out if this is going to be a huge and unwieldy book, which costs double for shipping and handling to some countries. Or indeed, how much longer it will be till we get to the end of the story arc.

So, despite my very elaborate sense of humour, I'm sorry: I don't see what there is to "crack up" about...

Randall Silver

2013-08-03, 04:22 PM

Mad Humanist: if you're off by no more than 2 strips, you shall win the internet and I shall buy you a beer. A good one. And as a Belgian, I know my beers! ;-)

Porthos

2013-08-03, 04:26 PM

Who's complaining about the lenght of the story, exactly? I'm just saying it's a slow progress. Most books I read take a lot longer to finish the entire story (Deathgate Cycle, Wheel of Time, Song of Ice and Fire,...). So, the longer the story, the happier I am. It's just the waiting for the next part which can make me complain. One year? No problem. Close to four years? Well, that's a bit long, isn't it? It's like waiting for the next Blizzard game which has been anounced for years.

There is a very real difference between ASOIAF and OOTS. You get the read the pages of the next book as Rich makes them. ASOIAF? Not as much. :smallwink:

Sure, bonus strips. But you still get to read the main story as it is being made.

OOTS is much more like a long running TV series. And in this case, the books are akin to DVD releases. Or reading a weekly comic book series that eventually gets released in graphic novel format.

So if one is ONLY reading the books, and not the strips online, I can see the complaint. Otherwise? Not so much.

RoboChap

2013-08-03, 04:27 PM

Who's complaining about the lenght of the story, exactly? I'm just saying it's a slow progress. Most books I read take a lot longer to finish the entire story (Deathgate Cycle, Wheel of Time, Song of Ice and Fire,...). So, the longer the story, the happier I am. It's just the waiting for the next part which can make me complain. One year? No problem. Close to four years? Well, that's a bit long, isn't it?

A Game of Thrones - Published 1996
A Clash of Kings - Published 1998
A Storm of Swords - Published 2000
A Feast for Crows - Published 2005
A Dance With Dragons - Published 2011
Winds of Winter - Who knows? 2014 at the earliest, 2015 maybe?

If you are a fan of Song of Ice and Fire books I would have thought 4 years isn't considered a long wait at all :)

Mad Humanist

2013-08-03, 04:29 PM

Mad Humanist: if you're off by no more than 2 strips, you shall win the internet and I shall buy you a beer. A good one. And as a Belgian, I know my beers! ;-)

I love Belgian beer. I have a Belgian beer T-shirt. I used to have my small collection of Belgian beer bottles on display but my wife objected.

Roland St. Jude

2013-08-03, 04:41 PM

Sheriff: I don't think we need one thread one this, it seems to trend quickly into discussions of Rich's business practices or the update schedule. But we definitely don't need three of them. Threads merged.

Ted The Bug

2013-08-03, 04:51 PM

Don't forget about all the Kickstarter stuff and the thumb incident! That pushed a lot of things back.

But the new book is likely to be soon. Big things are going down right now, which is usually a sign that the end (of a chapter, at least) is nigh.

So excited. I'm ready to get at that commentary-ish goodness.

Porthos

2013-08-08, 06:13 PM

Summoned monster defeated? Check.
Durkon back with the team? Check.

Still on the table:
Plant the seeds for the next arc set the stage for the next book plan for the future.
Getting V back in the party.
Cutaway of some sort on what remains of the Linear Guild, even if only a couple of panels.

Looks like it's getting real close to the end. Within five pages, maybe?

As of 909:

Book
# of Online Strips
# of Online Pages
Xtra Pages
Total Book Pages

NCftPB

180

197

47

244

W&XP

183

242

46

288

DStP

188

226

46

272

Book 5

237+

270.75+

???

???

1 page away from the Online Comic portion of the book equaling the total size of DStP.
17 pages away from the Online Comic portion of the book equaling the total size of W&XPs.

ti'esar

2013-08-08, 06:29 PM

We also still don't know what Tarquin and Kilkil were talking about here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0882.html). But I now suspect we won't find out this book (or maybe it'll be a cliffhanger).

ti'esar

2013-08-12, 07:22 PM

And now it appears the end may be a bit farther away.

Porthos

2013-08-19, 12:59 PM

Looks like it's getting real close to the end. Within five pages, maybe?

Maybe not. :smalltongue:

Still, I do think this book is real close to the end. Though I sometimes wonder if every time someone says that Rich adds another three pages to the book count just to spite us. :smallbiggrin:

I also still think that V's gonna return before the end of the book, though I now admit to being a little uncertain. I do think we're gonna see some sort of look as to what is happening with him since I doubt Rich would want to pull a What Happened to the Elf Mouse for the book-only readers. But I must admit that I could see it happening.

Anywho, update:

As of 912:

Book
# of Online Strips
# of Online Pages
Xtra Pages
Total Book Pages

NCftPB

180

197

47

244

W&XP

183

242

46

288

DStP

188

226

46

272

Book 5

240+

273.75+

???

???

14 pages away from the Online Comic portion of the book equaling the total size of W&XPs.

And for the first time I think it's actually possible that the Death Star can clear the planet the Online Comic Count can match the total size of W&XPs. Depending on just how much time is spent on the current meeting with Team Tarquin, and the fallout thereof, I can now see it happening if V reunites with the Order in this book.

And since Rich is now on record as saying that he'll put out seven books and only seven books, size be damned*, for the online strips any consideration about the constraints of page counts I think is entirely out the window. Now it is completely down to pacing, narrative structure, and the tale Rich wants to tell in an actual book.

Which makes for great fodder for people who like to guess away at how plot points are going to be addressed. :smallwink:

* Please, please, please I beg you DO NOT discuss the business ramifications of doorstopper sized books here. The Eye of Sauron is already on this thread and I'd like to keep it open. :smalltongue:

Porthos

2013-08-26, 07:27 PM

Been a couple of (eventful) comics, so time to update this bad boy. :smallcool:

As of 914

Book
# of Online Strips
# of Online Pages
Xtra Pages
Total Book Pages

NCftPB

180

197

47

244

W&XP

183

242

46

288

DStP

188

226

46

272

Book 5

242+

276.75+

???

???

11 pages away from the Online Comic portion of the book equaling the total size of W&XPs.

And, why yes, we ARE getting a look at what V is up to. :smalltongue:

(got permission to double post this from the mod team :smallsmile:)

Gift Jeraff

2013-08-26, 07:34 PM

How Book 5 will be shipped. (http://videogamerescue.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Huge-Xbox.jpg)

rgd20

2013-08-29, 05:11 PM

As of 915
{table]|Book | # of Online Strips |# of Online Pages | Xtra Pages | Total Book Pages|
|NCftPB|
180 |
197 |
47 |
244|
|W&XP |
183 |
242 |
46 |
288 |
|DStP |
188 |
226 |
46 |
272|
|Book 5 |
243+ |
278.25+ |
??? |
???|[/table]

9 pages away from the Online Comic portion of the book equaling the total size of W&XPs.

bob

Porthos

2013-08-30, 01:10 PM

I finally found that quote where Rich said that Book 5 was nowhere near completed last year (ironically looking for something else :smallannoyed:):

Book 5 is not happening right now. If it was happening, it would have been the very first thing I put up as a reward. I'm not going to take money for a book for which I don't know the exact length, the price, the date of delivery, what the cover looks like, or even if it will be printed this year. I am not willing to take that much risk that things will happen between now and whatever distant date that Book 5 is ready, and I guarantee you, it is not as close to being done as you think it is.

That would be at when Strip #831 was up.

So, no, there was NOT a break right about the time Team OotS entered the pyramid and The Giant just decided not to tell us for some reason. :smallsmile:

Porthos

2013-09-03, 02:15 AM

As of 916

Book
# of Online Strips
# of Online Pages
Xtra Pages
Total Book Pages

NCftPB

180

197

47

244

W&XP

183

242

46

288

DStP

188

226

46

272

Book 5

244+

279.75+

???

???

8 pages away from the Online Comic portion of the book equaling the total size of W&XPs.

Spoomeister

2013-09-04, 02:30 PM

LadyEowyn

2013-09-04, 02:56 PM

Porthos

2013-09-05, 12:43 AM

Well, I dunno. Last time a Gate blew up, there was 20 more updates before the book ended.

17 and counting...

Deal with the elemental.
Done.

Deal a bit more with the V storyline.
Nope.

Some sort of sign of what is going on with Team Tarquin.
OMGWTFBBQ!!!! :smalleek: :smalleek: :smalleek:

...

That is to say: Ongoing. :smalltongue:

Team OOTS planning for the Next Step.
Nope.

<analysis of previous climax to end of book SNIPPED>

Since W&XPs was probably the anomaly, the book might be anywhere from five to fifteen pages from ending (being three pages into the anti-climax). Five seems way to short to handle everything I noted above. But beyond that, I really can't hope to guess.

'Five to fifteen pages away from ending'

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

What a silly poster. Hahahaha.

Heh.

Yeah.

Maybe I should have stuck with my later observation of:

I do think this book is real close to the end. Though I sometimes wonder if every time someone says that Rich adds another three pages to the book count just to spite us. :smallbiggrin:

:smallwink:

David Argall

2013-09-05, 01:47 AM

Not knowing anything about what's coming up next as of 916, I have to think that 916 would make one hell of a great ending for book 5. As cliffhangers go, it doesn't get more cliffy than that, either plot-wise or just for that final panel.
The books have all ended on pretty clear breaks. We get the destruction of a castle/dungeon, the announcement of an invasion, the flight from Azure City, and the sailing to the new adventure. So no, we are not going to end a book with arrows seriously flying. [Now maybe with an army chasing the party, but not when it is doubtful they can get away.] If the party rushes into the rift, we could end the book in a strip or two. If they stay out, it could be quite awhile [and my current guess is that they will stay out of the rift.]

littlebum2002

2013-09-05, 08:42 AM

As of 916

{table]|Book | # of Online Strips |# of Online Pages | Xtra Pages | Total Book Pages|
|NCftPB|
180 |
197 |
47 |
244|
|W&XP |
183 |
242 |
46 |
288 |
|DStP |
188 |
226 |
46 |
272|
|Book 5 |
244+ |
279.75+ |
??? |
???|[/table]

8 pages away from the Online Comic portion of the book equaling the total size of W&XPs.

Just curious: Why don't you include Dungeon Crawlin Fools in your graphs? Does it not have extra strips or something?

Spoomeister

2013-09-05, 08:50 AM

The books don't generally end on complete cliffhangers - there's always some level of resolution combined with indications of what issues are going to arise in the next book. We've got at least a ways to go on this one still. How much depends on whether the Tarquin plot is resolved in this book or left to continue into the next one.

The books have all ended on pretty clear breaks. We get the destruction of a castle/dungeon, the announcement of an invasion, the flight from Azure City, and the sailing to the new adventure. So no, we are not going to end a book with arrows seriously flying. [Now maybe with an army chasing the party, but not when it is doubtful they can get away.] If the party rushes into the rift, we could end the book in a strip or two. If they stay out, it could be quite awhile [and my current guess is that they will stay out of the rift.]

Both valid points (or variations on the same basic point). I don't know if I agree that just because every other book ended with some sort of minor resolution / break / stopping point, that this one HAS to. If Rich has said before that there's 2 books to go after this one, perhaps we're far enough along in the overall plot that this one could be the Empire Strikes Back sort of moment.

But it's a reasonable conclusion to draw given how the other books are structured.

Now what I've been daydreaming about, far from now (possibly a decade?) is to see OOTS given the kind of treatment that say Calvin and Hobbes, Bloom County, Far Side, Peanuts, etc. have gotten, and have some sort of hardcover Complete Edition with all the everything from everywhere... main story, side stories, prequels, one-offs, Dragon Mag compilations... :smallbiggrin: I would also like a pony.

Kish

2013-09-05, 09:11 AM

I would also like a pony.
Because you'd need one to carry your massive many-thousand-page graphic novel?

Gift Jeraff

2013-09-05, 09:18 AM

So my original bet (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277896#7) of Book 5 ending on strip #916 turned out to be wrong.

FlawedParadigm

2013-09-05, 10:59 AM

Because you'd need one to carry your massive many-thousand-page graphic novel?

Now, now. It might only be two thousand, not many thousand. Figure 1,400-1,500 strips, 100-200 bonus strips, another 100 pages of commentary, and a couple of hundred strips from StickTales, SSaDT, et cetera.

Porthos

2013-09-05, 11:47 AM

Porthos

2013-09-05, 01:46 PM

Now, now. It might only be two thousand, not many thousand. Figure 1,400-1,500 strips, 100-200 bonus strips, another 100 pages of commentary, and a couple of hundred strips from StickTales, SSaDT, et cetera.

*checks running count on home computer*

Counting everything we are as of this exact second at:
Total Comic Pages: 1437.75
Total Pages: 1580.75

Includes Kickstarter comics, does not include Kickstarter update graphics.

Ok, subtract a few pages for getting rid of the superfluous Cover Pages/Library of Congress info. It's still a lot of pages out there. :smalltongue:

====

As of 917

Book
# of Online Strips
# of Online Pages
Xtra Pages
Total Book Pages

DCF

121

122.5

37.5

160

NCftPB

180

197

47

244

W&XP

183

242

46

288

DStP

188

226

46

272

Book 5

245+

281.75+

???

???

6 pages away from the Online Comic portion of the book equaling the total size of W&XPs.

NOTE: (DCF added by request)
NOTE: 'Xtra pages' = Bonus Strips (including Recaps), Commentary, Chapter Pages, Character Sketches, Cover Page/Library Info, and Other Assorted Extras

Cizak

2013-09-05, 02:11 PM

Just curious: Why don't you include Dungeon Crawlin Fools in your graphs? Does it not have extra strips or something?

Oh it does. But it has been fairly anomalous for being so short compared to the rest of the books, that it wasn't really worthwhile to include as a point of analysis. Most of us have concluded that there will never be another compilation book as short as DCF again.

But, I suppose, I could start throwing it in. If only for completeism. I have the info already compiled* just waiting to be plugged in.

* This should surprise no one, of course. :smallwink:

It's also worth noting that NCftPB was the first arc Rich knew was going to become a book when he wrote (most of) the strips it contains (thus being able to plan where he could throw in bonus strips) and WaXPs was the first arc that was planned entirely as a book.

littlebum2002

2013-09-05, 03:36 PM

Oh it does. But it has been fairly anomalous for being so short compared to the rest of the books, that it wasn't really worthwhile to include as a point of analysis. Most of us have concluded that there will never be another compilation book as short as DCF again.

But, I suppose, I could start throwing it in. If only for completeism. I have the info already compiled* just waiting to be plugged in.

* This should surprise no one, of course. :smallwink:

Thanks. I wanted to start getting the books, but I was going to skip that one if it didn't have anything extra. Now that you told me, I just ordered my copy. Can't wait!

Zmeoaice

2013-09-05, 03:38 PM

So my original bet (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277896#7) of Book 5 ending on strip #916 turned out to be wrong.

Man, what a cliffhanger that would have been.

Nimrod's Son

2013-09-05, 03:46 PM

Thanks. I wanted to start getting the books, but I was going to skip that one if it didn't have anything extra. Now that you told me, I just ordered my copy. Can't wait!
DCF often gets short shrift because of its length, but in terms of bonus material it's up there with the best of them - personally I'd rank DStP slightly higher because it includes two brand new scenes and significantly extends another, but the new intro that shows the order entering Dorukan's dungeon is maybe my favourite "deleted scene" of the entire saga.

littlebum2002

2013-09-05, 04:08 PM

DCF often gets short shrift because of its length, but in terms of bonus material it's up there with the best of them - personally I'd rank DStP slightly higher because it includes two brand new scenes and significantly extends another, but the new intro that shows the order entering Dorukan's dungeon is maybe my favourite "deleted scene" of the entire saga.

Good, that sounds like something to look forward to.

The only other "deleted scenes" that I am aware of are some submarine scene and How Xykon Got His Zombie Dragon. Oh, and something about another prophecy regarding Belkar. i'm very excited to read them all. I ordered the first 2 books today.

137beth

2013-09-05, 05:09 PM

DCF often gets short shrift because of its length, but in terms of bonus material it's up there with the best of them - personally I'd rank DStP slightly higher because it includes two brand new scenes and significantly extends another, but the new intro that shows the order entering Dorukan's dungeon is maybe my favourite "deleted scene" of the entire saga.

Yea, the introduction is among my favorites (although really, it does sorta use a plot point from Sondheim's Into the Woods.
Also, Elan's summary of DCF in the beginning of NcfPB.

FlawedParadigm

2013-09-05, 05:21 PM

Well we may hit a few thousand after all then. Son, we're going to tell the greatest story EVER!

Nimrod's Son

2013-09-05, 05:54 PM

The only other "deleted scenes" that I am aware of are some submarine scene and How Xykon Got His Zombie Dragon. Oh, and something about another prophecy regarding Belkar.
All the books have a handful of "throwaway gag"-type bonus strips scattered throughout them. In addition to these DCF has the aforementioned intro; NCftPB has an extended scene in Wooden Forest just before the bandit arc that shows how Roy got his club, and the extended of Team Evil's dungeon crawl that you mentioned; W&XPs extends the "New Year" and "Battle of Azure City" scenes considerably; and DStP has an extended ending (which contains the Belkar prophesy*) and two brand new scenes: Elan and Lien searching the ocean for clues to Therkla's identity, and the Thieves' Guild's retrieval of Roy's bone golem from Grubwiggler.

*Which, as far as I'm concerned, had already been fulfilled in perfectly satisfactory fashion by that point of the story anyway.

Porthos

2013-09-17, 03:47 PM

The Death Star is closer and closer to clearing the planet.... :smallamused:

As of 919

Book
# of Online Strips
# of Online Pages
Xtra Pages
Total Book Pages

DCF

121

122.5

37.5

160

NCftPB

180

197

47

244

W&XP

183

242

46

288

DStP

188

226

46

272

Book 5

247+

283.75+

???

???

4 pages away from the Online Comic portion of the book equaling the total size of W&XPs.

NOTE: 'Xtra pages' = Bonus Strips (including Recaps), Commentary, Chapter Pages, Character Sketches, Cover Page/Library Info, and Other Assorted Extras

Procyonpi

2013-09-17, 04:07 PM

This book is going to be massive.

Although I do think we're really on the final or penultimate round.

Porthos

2013-09-17, 04:28 PM

Although I do think we're really on the final or penultimate round.

Don't say that. :smalltongue:

Still, I do think this book is real close to the end. Though I sometimes wonder if every time someone says that Rich adds another three pages to the book count just to spite us. :smallbiggrin:

*throws salt over shoulder*
*recites the Blackadder Scottish Play mantra three times*
*wards off the evil eye*

et etc. :smalltongue:

Solse

2013-09-17, 05:25 PM

How do you know that the current arc won't be split into two books?

Solse

2013-09-17, 05:26 PM

Because you'd need one to carry your massive many-thousand-page graphic novel?

Because this is the internet. Everybody wants a pony.

Porthos

2013-09-17, 05:36 PM

How do you know that the current arc won't be split into two books?

Because:

A) Rich has said there will be seven total books, even if (paraphrasing) the last one has to be a doorstopper.

and

B) When the Kickstarter launched last year, he said that he wasn't taking orders for Book 5 because it was nowhere near completed yet.

Plus

C) He's always told us before when a book ends.

That last point might not mean much by itself. But when combined with Points A and B, I think it's pretty likely we're still in Book 5. :smallwink:

137beth

2013-09-17, 05:51 PM

The Death Star is closer and closer to clearing the planet.... :smallamused:

As of 919
{table]|Book | # of Online Strips |# of Online Pages | Xtra Pages | Total Book Pages|
|DCF |
121 |
122.5 |
37.5 |
160|
|NCftPB|
180 |
197 |
47 |
244|
|W&XP |
183 |
242 |
46 |
288 |
|DStP |
188 |
226 |
46 |
272|
|Book 5 |
247+ |
283.75+ |
??? |
???|[/table]

4 pages away from the Online Comic portion of the book equaling the total size of W&XPs.

NOTE: 'Xtra pages' = Bonus Strips (including Recaps), Commentary, Chapter Pages, Character Sketches, Cover Page/Library Info, and Other Assorted Extras

Yep, I think book 5 is going to clear the W&XP hurdle:smallbiggrin:

Solse

2013-09-17, 05:59 PM

Because:

A) Rich has said there will be seven total books, even if (paraphrasing) the last one has to be a doorstopper.

and

B) When the Kickstarter launched last year, he said that he wasn't taking orders for Book 5 because it was nowhere near completed yet.

Plus

C) He's always told us before when a book ends.

That last point might not mean much by itself. But when combined with Points A and B, I think it's pretty likely we're still in Book 5. :smallwink:

Very good points.

Neosmith

2013-09-17, 07:20 PM

Porthos, thanks for making that chart!

I had no idea that this was the longest arc in the OOTS history.

I guess that means we likely won't see a Book 5 until next year.

David Argall

2013-09-17, 08:27 PM

Porthos, thanks for making that chart!

I had no idea that this was the longest arc in the OOTS history.

I guess that means we likely won't see a Book 5 until next year.
We are within 5 strips of the end [but we have been within 5 for the last 20] and so the book will end this year. Now it can take quite a bit of time to write up those extra 45 pages, and January is a better guess than December.

NerdyKris

2013-09-17, 08:36 PM

Also, it takes a few months to print the book. I wouldn't expect this book before May, even if the book ends this month.

Gift Jeraff

2013-09-21, 09:36 PM

As of #920

{table]|Book | # of Online Strips |# of Online Pages | Xtra Pages | Total Book Pages|
|DCF |
121 |
122.5 |
37.5 |
160|
|NCftPB|
180 |
197 |
47 |
244|
|W&XP |
183 |
242 |
46 |
288 |
|DStP |
188 |
226 |
46 |
272|
|Book 5 |
248+ |
284.75+ |
??? |
284.75+|[/table]

3 pages away from the online portion of the book equaling the total size of yo mama.

137beth

2013-09-22, 02:01 PM

Well if yo'mama is only the size of a copy of WaXP, then you have a pretty small mama:smalltongue:

Gift Jeraff

2013-10-01, 08:58 AM

As of #922

{table]|Book | # of Online Strips |# of Online Pages | Xtra Pages | Total Book Pages|
|DCF |
121 |
122.5 |
37.5 |
160|
|NCftPB|
180 |
197 |
47 |
244|
|W&XP |
183 |
242 |
46 |
288 |
|DStP |
188 |
226 |
46 |
272|
|Book 5 |
250+ |
286.25+ |
??? |
286.25+|[/table]

Less than 2 pages away from the online portion of the book equaling the total size of WaXP.

rgd20

2013-10-01, 09:32 AM

... which comic had the .25 / .75 strip in?

Bob

Gift Jeraff

2013-10-01, 11:34 AM

... which comic had the .25 / .75 strip in?

Bob

Second page of #841 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0841.html).

NerdyKris

2013-10-01, 11:48 AM

... which comic had the .25 / .75 strip in?

Bob

And if you mean Dungeon Crawling Fools, it was strip 50, The Semi Secret Origin of Elan and Nale. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html) It was presumably before he started planning for the books, so there was no extra half page on the next strip.

As for the one in the current book, I'd assume he's going to make the discovery of the bodies a full page panel.

Gift Jeraff

2013-10-01, 11:57 AM

If Book 5 were to end with the current strip and receive the low end of extra strips (37, as in DCF), it would still be more than twice the size of DCF (160 vs 323).

Ted The Bug

2013-10-01, 12:50 PM

Second page of #841 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0841.html).

Huh, how's that gonna work in print? I didn't see an extra one-panel page on the next comic.

Porthos

2013-10-01, 01:01 PM

Huh, how's that gonna work in print? I didn't see an extra one-panel page on the next comic.

A) It's expanded to cover a full page.

B) There is commentary continued from a previous page. (<---- This is my guess)

C) There is something unrelated below. Either a doodle, one shot panel, or even a fake advertisment for something in-universe. Probably not a gag given the severity of the above strip though.

D) This Space Intentionally Left Blank.

NerdyKris

2013-10-01, 01:22 PM

Huh, how's that gonna work in print? I didn't see an extra one-panel page on the next comic.

It's a full page panel already. Most likely it would be expanded if it's not, but it definitely looks like a full page shot.

rgd20

2013-10-01, 01:23 PM

Second page of #841 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0841.html).

aha! thank you.

Bob

Porthos

2013-10-01, 01:51 PM

It's a full page panel already. Most likely it would be expanded if it's not, but it definitely looks like a full page shot.

It's not a full page yet. :smallsmile: I've compared the size of it to 'standard' size ones.

Porthos

2013-10-01, 02:10 PM

As of #922

Book
# of Online Strips
# of Online Pages
Xtra Pages
Total Book Pages

DCF

121

122.5

37.5

160

NCftPB

180

197

47

244

W&XP

183

242

46

288

DStP

188

226

46

272

Book 5

250+

286.25+

???

???

Less than 2 pages away from the online portion of the book equaling the total size of WaXP.

Pretty sure this should be:

As of 922

Book
# of Online Strips
# of Online Pages
Xtra Pages
Total Book Pages

DCF

121

122.5

37.5

160

NCftPB

180

197

47

244

W&XP

183

242

46

288

DStP

188

226

46

272

Book 5

250+

287.25+

???

???

Since there have been 2.5 pages added since 920. :smallsmile:

And so....

1 page away from the Online Comic portion of the book surpassing the total size of W&XPs.
8 pages away from Online Comic portion of the book equaling the total size of On the Origins of PCs, Start of Darkness, and Snips, Snails and Dragon Tales combined.

Gift Jeraff

2013-10-01, 02:22 PM

I forgot to carry the 1. :furious:

ChristianSt

2013-10-01, 02:48 PM

And if you mean Dungeon Crawling Fools, it was strip 50, The Semi Secret Origin of Elan and Nale. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html) It was presumably before he started planning for the books, so there was no extra half page on the next strip.

As for the one in the current book, I'd assume he's going to make the discovery of the bodies a full page panel.

Not every time there is a half/quarter page it is finished in the main comic, even after Rich started planning for books (other recent examples are 827 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0827.html)/828 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0828.html) or 839 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0839.html)/840 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0840.html)) - normally such space is filled with extra comments / bonus comics. The only panel I can remember that got bigger was the half page of 430 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0430.html) (it got a whole 2-page spread). And I don't think that panel of 841 will be stretched (because it would probably would lock awkward with changed aspect ratio - so Rich would probably need to complete redraw it, which wouldn't be a good time investment)

Porthos

2013-10-01, 03:03 PM

Not every time there is a half/quarter page it is finished in the main comic, even after Rich started planning for books (other recent examples are 827 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0827.html)/828 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0828.html) or 839 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0839.html)/840 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0840.html)) - normally such space is filled with extra comments / bonus comics. The only panel I can remember that got bigger was the half page of 430 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0430.html) (it got a whole 2-page spread). And I don't think that panel of 841 will be stretched (because it would probably would lock awkward with changed aspect ratio - so Rich would probably need to complete redraw it, which wouldn't be a good time investment)

Yes, I've been simplifying the 'Online Page Count' on the stat blocks I've been posting here a tad. Techincally the Online Page Count has covered 289 pages of a printed book so far (250 base + 35 full size/half size that is paired off in the next comic pages + 3 half pages that aren't paired off* + 1 three-quarter page). On the other hand, the 'Xtra Pages' will still fill in those gaps with material (or be blank). So it all works out in the end.

* Counting the current half page, which will probably be paired off in the next update.

It should probably surprise no one that the stat block I keep on my home computer for personal tracking is much more precise. :smalltongue:

Porthos

2013-10-09, 02:12 AM

As of 923

Book
# of Online Strips
# of Online Pages
Xtra Pages
Total Book Pages

DCF

121

122.5

37.5

160

NCftPB

180

197

47

244

W&XP

183

242

46

288

DStP

188

226

46

272

Book 5

251+

288.75+

???

???

The Online Comic portion of the book has now cleared the Death Star, I repeat the Online portion of the book has cleared the Death Star! has now surpassed the total size of W&XPs.
7 pages away from Online Comic portion of the book equaling the total size of On the Origins of PCs, Start of Darkness, and Snips, Snails and Dragon Tales combined.

ti'esar

2013-10-14, 02:58 PM

Well, looks like we're probably going over the limit now.

Porthos

2013-10-14, 03:09 PM

Well, looks like we're probably going over the limit now.

The next unit of measurement I was planning on using was: Online Portion of the book being twice the total size of Dungeon Crawlin Fools.

Didn't think we'd quite get close enough to start a countdown. But if this battle is of decent length....

Rogar Demonblud

2013-10-14, 03:34 PM

Given the size of Book 5 at this point, I think the Giant is setting things up for next book at this point.

Gift Jeraff

2013-10-22, 12:42 PM

As of 926
{table]|Book | # of Online Strips |# of Online Pages | Xtra Pages | Total Book Pages|
|DCF |
121 |
122.5 |
37.5 |
160|
|NCftPB|
180 |
197 |
47 |
244|
|W&XP |
183 |
242 |
46 |
288 |
|DStP |
188 |
226 |
46 |
272|
|Book 5 |
254+ |
291.75+ |
??? |
291.75+|[/table]

Porthos

2013-10-29, 09:27 PM

As of 927

Book
# of Online Strips
# of Online Pages
Xtra Pages
Total Book Pages

DCF

121

122.5

37.5

160

NCftPB

180

197

47

244

W&XP

183

242

46

288

DStP

188

226

46

272

Book 5

255+

292.75+

???

292.75+

2 pages away from Online Comic portion of the book equaling the total size of On the Origins of PCs, Start of Darkness, and Snips, Snails and Dragon Tales combined.

Procyonpi

2013-10-29, 11:58 PM

So since most of our Original guesses (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277896#7) as to the strip this book would end on have been proved wrong, anyone interested in another pool? I'd say 942ish, since it really feels like we're actually getting close to a conclusion at this point.

Darth V

2013-10-30, 06:31 AM

I am currently betting on the book ending (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16235165&postcount=63) by #950 or in a lampshading way exactly at #1000.

Sir_Leorik

2013-10-30, 02:31 PM

Probably between 940 and 950. I'm not willing to put an exact figure, because I honestly expected the book to wrap up after the Silicon Elemental was beaten. Then Tarquin showed up and insisted on creating drama. :smallannoyed:

martianmister

2013-10-30, 06:22 PM

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14982359&postcount=4 :smallcool:

Gift Jeraff

2013-11-04, 07:54 PM

As of 928
{table]|Book | # of Online Strips |# of Online Pages | Xtra Pages | Total Book Pages|
|DCF |
121 |
122.5 |
37.5 |
160|
|NCftPB|
180 |
197 |
47 |
244|
|W&XP |
183 |
242 |
46 |
288 |
|DStP |
188 |
226 |
46 |
272|
|Book 5 |
256+ |
293.75+ |
??? |
293.75+|[/table]

1 page away from the first printing encompassing half the known universe online portion of the book equaling the total size of On the Origins of PCs, Start of Darkness, and Snips, Snails and Dragon Tales combined.

Porthos

2013-11-11, 12:06 AM

As of 929

Book
# of Online Strips
# of Online Pages
Xtra Pages
Total Book Pages

DCF

121

122.5

37.5

160

NCftPB

180

197

47

244

W&XP

183

242

46

288

DStP

188

226

46

272

Book 5

257+

294.75+

???

294.75+

-======-

I don't actually think it'll make it, but I'll start the count to the Online Portion of the comic being Double the Size of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools counter if and when it crosses 20 pages to go. :smallwink:

As it stands right now, and presuming that there is more or less equivalent bonus content in Book 5 as there were in the last three, Book 5 is shaping up to be a 350+ page book.

Porthos

2013-11-20, 06:25 PM

As of 932

Book
# of Online Strips
# of Online Pages
Xtra Pages
Total Book Pages

DCF

121

122.5

37.5

160

NCftPB

180

197

47

244

W&XP

183

242

46

288

DStP

188

226

46

272

Book 5

260+

297.75+

???

297.75+

SaintRidley

2013-11-20, 09:38 PM

That should say as of 932.

Porthos

2013-11-20, 10:44 PM

That should say as of 932.

Yeah, I literally just noticed that as I was opening up the thread.

Changed. :smallsmile:

SaintRidley

2013-11-20, 11:38 PM

Rogar Demonblud

2013-11-21, 10:58 AM

Yeah, I'm going to have to make some more room on the oversized shelf. Oh well, it's not like I ever look at the yearbooks anymore.

Dr. Gamera

2013-11-25, 05:11 PM

ChristianSt

2013-11-25, 05:30 PM

Something we haven't noticed (or that I haven't noticed we've noticed) - Book 5 has over 1/4 of the strip's total online pages to its name.

We are also at the point where Book 5's online page count is more than 1/3 the number of pages in the other compilation books combined.

Those are the same point. x > y/4 if and only if x > (y-x)/3.

While your math is correct, that are not the equations that relate to the stated facts.

The first fact is: B_5_strips [currently 260+] > online_strips/4 [which is currently 233]
The second fact is: B_5_pages [currently 293.75+] > pages_of_previous_compilation_/3 [which is constantly 321.3]

So clearly the first fact is true, while the second fact is currently false (unless SaintRidley means online pages of the previous compilations, which is 262.5).

[But the key point still remains the same, since strips and pages are not the same]

SaintRidley

2013-11-25, 10:08 PM

Sorry, I think I mathed wrong when I typed that second one.

Dr. Gamera

2013-11-26, 05:37 PM

Book 5 has over 1/4 of the strip's total online pages to its name.

The first fact is: B_5_strips [currently 260+]

SaintRidley said total online pages, not strips.

Edited to add: Also, I think we are interpreting the bolded phrase in this sentence differently:

We are also at the point where Book 5's online page count is more than 1/3 the number of pages in the other compilation books combined.

Because "online" was a qualifier in the first part of the comparison, I interpreted it as also applying to the second part of the comparison, but the sentence is admittedly ambiguous.

ChristianSt

2013-11-26, 06:34 PM

Yeah, I got that wrong :smallredface:

Maybe we should drop that math about strips/page/online/books/whatever and just say book 5 will be masive :smallsmile:

Rogar Demonblud

2013-11-26, 08:23 PM

More likely Massive.:smalltongue:

Sir_Leorik

2013-11-26, 10:15 PM

More likely Massive.:smalltongue:

How about Gargantuan? :smalltongue:

(I'd say Colossal, but books six and seven could be even longer!)

Dr. Gamera

2013-11-27, 11:32 AM

Maybe we should drop that math about strips/page/online/books/whatever and just say book 5 will be masive :smallsmile:

NO! WE MUST FIGHT TO THE DEATH OVER THIS TRIVIAL POINT!

Er, that is to say, sorry that I was persnickety before, carry on.

Porthos

2013-11-29, 09:30 PM

As of 933

Book
# of Online Strips
# of Online Pages
Xtra Pages
Total Book Pages

DCF

121

122.5

37.5

160

NCftPB

180

197

47

244

W&XP

183

242

46

288

DStP

188

226

46

272

Book 5

261+

299.25+

???

???

I'd start the counter to the Online Portion of the Comic is Double the Entire Size of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, but we might, just might, have the end of the book in sight. :smallwink:

*throws salt over shoulder to ward off evil spirits*
*says the Blackadder Scottish Play Mantra three times*
Et etc.

Still, there is the Ian Starshine supbplot hanging over the story. That might be shifted into the next book though.

We'll know soon enough, I guess. :smalltongue:

Procyonpi

2013-12-03, 02:29 PM

Yeah, I got that wrong :smallredface:

Maybe we should drop that math about strips/page/online/books/whatever and just say book 5 will be masive :smallsmile:

Have you seen this forum? Random debates over minute points is to the GitP forum what plotting petty revenge over perceived slights is to the linear guild.

Gift Jeraff

2013-12-03, 09:55 PM

Something we haven't noticed (or that I haven't noticed we've noticed) - Book 5 has over 1/4 of the strip's total online pages to its name.

We are also at the point where Book 5's online page count is more than 1/3 the number of pages in the other compilation books combined.

On a similar note, the OOTS has been in the Windy Canyon for exactly 100 strips inclusive (834 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0834.html)-present)--over 1/10th of the online strips (not sure about actual page count). Similarly, they were in the Empire of Blood for 102 strips (717 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0717.html)-818 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0818.html)).