Rules for children and dynasties

[Dire Panda]

(First off: so as to avoid the usual "issues" which plague discussions of character pregnancy, in this topic we'll assume a mature DM with mature players)

An upcoming campaign of mine is going to focus on rebuilding civilization in a post-apocalyptic fantasy world. Due to the scope of the campaign world and the challenges to be overcome, it's likely that the campaign will take more than a century of in-game time - meaning that unless the heroes pursue lichdom or some other method of immortality, they will need to found dynasties and take control of their descendants when the original character dies or can no longer adventure. You folks have suggested some fantastic (in both senses of the word) political sourcebooks, but so far I haven't found rules for producing children and/or training successors. (This is going to be an all-caster campaign, so it's conceivable that a childless character could train a promising apprentice as their successor)

So my question to you, Giants, is twofold: can you suggest rules (published or homebrew) for reproduction and raising children, or for training apprentices? My first guess on the former question would go something like the following, but I'd prefer playtested rules:


Children of existing characters do not use rolls or the standard point buy to generate their ability scores: instead, their scores start as the average of their parents', subject to normal racial maxima, and then a sort of genetic shuffling is performed. Randomly pick three scores, subtract 1d2 points from each, and add those points to the other three (again at random).
Characters whose ability scores have permanently exceeded their racial maximum may produce superhuman (or -dwarven, or what have you) offspring. If a character's permanent ability score (including levelups, Wishes, and the like) exceeds the normal racial maximum for that score, their child's cap on that score is increased by two. For example, the daughter of two INT 24 wizards would start with an INT of 18, and if the "genetic shuffle" took two points off of her STR and put them into into INT, she would be born with a superhuman score of 20.
Heroic characters may create powerful bloodlines. When a character reaches level 10, they may choose a "bloodline ability" thematically related to their class abilities, favorite spell, deeds, or something of the sort. All offspring of that character will be born with that bloodline ability, as will their offspring. If both parents have bloodline abilities, the child receives both. Should a parent have more than one bloodline ability, they may only pass one down per child (player's choice). A fair amount of DM judgment will have to be exercised here, but generally a 0th- or 1st-level spell-like ability, a bonus to a small number of skills, resistance 5 to an energy type, etc. is considered balanced. When a character reaches level 15, and every five levels beyond, they may improve their bloodline ability (again, subject to DM balance).
To balance male characters' ability to sire many powerful offspring with different women (which might be considered legitimate heirs in the society the PCs design), children may gain special abilities from their mother. If the mother's caster level is at least five, prenatal magic exposure allows the child to take levels in the sorcerer class (or other spontaneous casting classes) even without the proper draconic bloodline, grants a +1 bonus on Spellcraft checks per five levels of the mother, or gives some other minor magical ability.


Anyway, these are just first thoughts - critiques, or better yet published rules, would be appreciated.

[Xervous]

I would just be rolling 4d6 keep 3 for their ability scores to reflect the fact that they are above normal, maybe 5d6best3 if the PCs have ludicrously massive starting ability scores.

the high numbers may be assigned in a manner to reflect their heritage, high int if daddy was a wizard, high str if... etc

However, it all depends on how much of the PC's power is inheritable

[Erik Vale]

Book of Erotic Fantasy and Book of Unlawful Carnal Knowledge both have pregnancy rules for the female characters, rules for children is a no though. I think they both have rules for creating their stats... [Good luck finding them from sites that wont try and gank your computer. I have BoUCK though]. Both are 3rd party/open source.

As for apprentices, there is both the Apprentice and Mentor feat. Fiddle with levels/specifics as needed.

[Coidzor]

Well, one comment I'll make is that unless you're specifically houseruling sorcerer to be a restricted class, no such restriction exists limiting the class to "those of the proper, draconic bloodline."

[ArcturusV]

After your "Genetic Reshuffling" I would also allow an "Upbringing" phase. I mean while there are some limits, if a parent is demanding and wants their child brought up some way, it's going to impact them regardless of their natural inclinations.

And part of stats in the system is not just your natural aptitude, but also the effects of your life.

So have something like:

Upbringing: Assign a +2 to a stat of your choosing to reflect their upbringing, and choose a skill that will always count as a class skill for that character. You may choose another skill to always count as a class skill, but to do so, you must give your character -1 to a stat (Other than the one you originally gave them a +2 in due to Upbringing).

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Dire Panda
Children of existing characters do not use rolls or the standard point buy to generate their ability scores....

I may be missing something, but...why? Not sure why you couldn't just roll 4d6, like Xervous said--or however your first generation rolled their scores--or simply use point-buy. If you want the feel of children taking after their parents, point buy allows the players a good deal more control.

Also, I really like your concept for a dynastic campaign. Among other things, it gives deeper piquancy to the loss of a character, if it also means that three generations of characters have come to an end without an heir.

[Sith_Happens]

The hypothetical rules in the OP kind of make me think of Pokémon. Especially the last one.

[Yogibear41]

For your suggestion number 2 about parents exceeding their races max ability scores causing their children to be faster/stronger/smart etc, if you want any sort of realism I would say no (realism is overrated though :smallsmile:) this was actually an early hypothesis for how evolution worked: parent starts weak works all its life to get stronger therefore next generation is born stronger!: false :smallfrown:

But I'm not here to debate science, I would however say that if perhaps the ability increases were do to magical or divine means: inherent bonuses from wish or prayer or something then they could potentially be passed down a generation causing increased scores as the magic could be partially passed down.


EDIT: I always thought about making a wish in a game I play in that all people descended of my line would receieve benefit X or something like that. For example if my werewolf ever got a wish he would wish something like: I wish all of those of my blood line to no longer feel the sting of a silver blow, aka make his and all his ancestors that were born werewolves to have damage reduction that was no longer overcome by silver.

[Phelix-Mu]

Well, hmm.

- I guess I feel that it would be weird for the children of people that started normal and then became super were superchildren. If you want your children to be magical, you probably should go with the obvious "enchant your children." There is no precedence that I can think of that coolness acquired in the characters life would be inherited; I guess they were aiming for not having characters that were children of heroes grandfather in bonuses from their parents.

- BoEF is a great resource.

- Children should realistically be born with ability scores that are fractions of what they have once they mature, especially Intelligence and Wisdom. The physical scores are mostly fixed by size adjustments. This really is only relevant if you determine that the children have somehow been modified to increase their growth rate (an excellent enhancement, since as is, childbirth rates among humanoids are SEVERELY restricted by inability of babies to do anything for literally a year or so (for humans). Compare humanoids and kobolds...laying clutches of eggs is faster).

- Inherited templates are probably the best core way to improve offspring. Breed with dragons, etc.

- Looking more closely at the suggested rules, the problem is iterations. Within 10 generations of your starting point (less than a hundred years), humans stand to no longer look like humans, especially if each successive generation has to level up in expanding the new civilization and such. This is fine, I guess, but unless you very strictly restrict the occurrence of the wunderkind the pcs are producing, then weird stuff may happen. Especially with bloodlines thrown in there. I'm seeing a variety of human subspecies evolving, along with all of the normal racism and elitism that comes along with normal human society and groups of exceptional people. Depending on just how big the population of normals is, this may or may not be a problem for the superhumans.

Good luck. It does sound like an interesting premise.

[Coidzor]

Well, hmm.

- I guess I feel that it would be weird for the children of people that started normal and then became super were superchildren. If you want your children to be magical, you probably should go with the obvious "enchant your children." There is no precedence that I can think of that coolness acquired in the characters life would be inherited; I guess they were aiming for not having characters that were children of heroes grandfather in bonuses from their parents.

Lamarck was Right. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LamarckWasRight) As long as they're conceived after the character is superhuman, whatever. Having 20 HD of womb environment as opposed to 1 HD of womb environment could be argued to make a difference, though you'd have to want to dwell on such things for longer than I want to.


- Children should realistically be born with ability scores that are fractions of what they have once they mature, especially Intelligence and Wisdom. The physical scores are mostly fixed by size adjustments. This really is only relevant if you determine that the children have somehow been modified to increase their growth rate (an excellent enhancement, since as is, childbirth rates among humanoids are SEVERELY restricted by inability of babies to do anything for literally a year or so (for humans). Compare humanoids and kobolds...laying clutches of eggs is faster).

Or if you're really going to be featuring them as set pieces while they're immature. I believe there's a couple of quick and dirty child and youth templates that could be tweaked or used as-is.


- Inherited templates are probably the best core way to improve offspring. Breed with dragons, etc.

Only good if the children are not going to be used as PCs later on. Fey are the best choice that I can recall offhand due to how swank the Half-Fey template is.

[Skysaber]

Quintessential Human by Mongoose has a section entitled Dynasties on the rearing of children, determining their ability scores and preparing them to serve as the next generation of adventurers, and includes such nitty gritty as how likely is a mother to lose a child if she is attacked while pregnant, their abilities while immature, or what changes it makes if you let your servants bring up your kids.

Interestingly enough, it also has rules on how to handle it if your parents hang around as ghosts. Mortality is very human.

Although, that said, I pretty much like your house rules as stated (Quint Human is depressingly realistic in that regard).

[Gildedragon]

Addressing the broodyness of one's legacy could also be handled by the leadership feat. So they 'raise' their cohort and that'd be what pick up after them. It gives the sense that the parents can still adventure and this one following them is the maturing next gen.

[dysprosium]

I also like the idea of this campaign/story.

In one of my own games I also have been using the average of the two parents' statistics to generate their abilities for their adult selves. I have not been able to playtest this idea though as these children are still in fact children.

[Greenish]

DMGII has the feat pair of Mentor and Apprentice.

[Dire Panda]

Comments:

-Yeah, I get that my proposed system sounds a lot like discredited Lamarckian inheritance, but remember we're talking magic here. The biochem student in our group made a very persuasive case that Wishing for improved ability scores does change the character's genetic code. =P

-I've never used random rolls for ability scores in my campaigns and don't plan to - after playing with several DMs who did, I'm convinced it's an archaic system that sacrifices balance and player enjoyment.

-Do templates exist that adjust childrens' ability scores as they age (infant, child, adolescent, etc.)? Having a few of those around would be great should the unthinkable happen and the PCs' enemies come after their family. Obviously the preceding discussion of ability scores refers to their adult stats (a baby with 20 STR would be an interesting character concept but better suited to a sillier campaign).

-I like the idea of upbringing modifying a child's ability scores. Maybe the parent can reassign one or two points.

-Apprentice/Mentor could be a good start, but eventually the PCs are going to have to think bigger and start teaching entire wizards' colleges, seminaries, druidic circles, and the like. If anyone can point me to rules for that, I'd be grateful.

-I'm not concerned about breeding 'super-children': the campaign is only going to last a few generations at most (I don't know where you got a 10-year generation time from, Phelix-Mu; that's biologically impossible for humans) and I do want the PCs' offspring to feel special. (Plus, an 'antagonist' race in this campaign has been doing exactly that: after thousands of years of eugenics, they scarcely resemble the elves they came from, and they survived the extinction of the rest of elvenkind)

-Well, drat, I gotta buy another book. Adding Quintessential Human to the list...

Keep the ideas coming! If nothing else, maybe this topic will inspire me to do a comprehensive homebrew.