Associated classes

[Jesterface]

I totally understand the idea of associated and non-associated classes for monsters, but there are a few monsters where I can't 100% say "That's definitely an associated class." or vice versa.

I'm currently trying to make a couple of elite-mook villains for a game, using Ogre Mages, and was considering giving them levels in Warmage (as opposed to Sorcerer), and wondered if Marmage were an associated class. I get the feeling this is probably a totally pointless question, but I'd rather be sure and at least see what other people thought.

[hamishspence]

Depends on if the class plays to the monster's strengths or not.

[Jesterface]

Exactly the kind of problem I'm encountering. The ogre side obviously leans towards a bruiser-style class, whilst the spell-like abilities and the favoured class being sorcerer push it towards magic use. So I was seeing Warmage as somewhat fitting due to the amount of 'make sh*t go boom' spells and the ability to use armour without affecting spellcasting.

[hamishspence]

Duskblade is another "gishy" class that might fit.

[Jesterface]

True, but there's already a Duskblade villain in the pipeline for the game, and while I'm not above utlising cookie-cutter mooks, I'd like to have a few monsters that maybe stand out a bit more.

[Jeraa]

IF you don't mind using Pathfinder material, the official PRD (Pathfinders version of the SRD) has a list of monsters and their appropriate role. (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/monsterRoles.html) Ogre Mages (which appear in Bestiary 1) are a Combat role monster, so warrior-type classes are associated.

[Jesterface]

That seems weird given that the MM gives their favoured class as sorcerer.

[Jeraa]

Well, the ogre mage doesn't have spellcasting. It has a few spell-like abilities. Adding levels of a spellcasting class on top of that won't actually improve any of the ogre mages abilities, it just adds new abilities. Adding combat-oriented levels instead does improve the ogre mages fighting ability.

Despite the creatures name and favored class, an ogre mage isn't a spell-casting ogre. Its basically just a stronger ogre with a few neat tricks. Compare it to creatures like the couatl, which casts spells as a 9th level sorcerer. Or the rakshasa who casts as a 7th level sorcerer. Adding more sorcerer levels on top of that does improve the monsters existing abilities.

[Jesterface]

Yeah, I get ya. So adding a handful of Warmage levels shouldn't raise the CR too high. Cheers for the help :)

[nedz]

Ogre-Mage is basically a double threat monster. So both melee and certain arcane classes would be associated.

[Jesterface]

I understand how an arcane class would 'play to the strengths' of an ogre mage, but as Jeraa said, it doesn't really advance its abilities.