Why don't the Szarkai and Drow have different stats?

[gurgleflep]

I know one's an albino version of the other, but why don't they have some form of different stats? It seems a bit redundant and unimaginative.

In the book Drow of the Underdark it states:
Albino Drow as Characters
Szarkai have identical game statistics to ordinary drow. See MM 103 for information on drow as characters.

This is rather aggravating! :smallmad:

[Aegis013]

You could homebrew some differences if you wanted to, but really, it makes pretty good sense. An albino human and a non-albino human aren't going to have any difference that's significant enough to represent mechanically, so likely the same will apply to most other races.

[Coidzor]

You're mad that an albino is not noticeably different from a non-albino in any way save for the pigmentation? :smallconfused:

Being albino doesn't make someone acclimated to natural light. If anything it makes them more sensitive to it.

[gurgleflep]

You're mad that an albino is not noticeably different from a non-albino in any way save for the pigmentation? :smallconfused:

Being albino doesn't make someone acclimated to natural light. If anything it makes them more sensitive to it.

Not mad, just aggravated. I feel they could have at least given it SOME form of change. They're apparently used as spies, why not a bonus to bluff or something?

[LTwerewolf]

There are sooooooooo many other things in 3.5 that could be addressed. There's no reason just being white means they're different. Even if they're used as spies most of the time, that just means those that choose them put ranks into bluff and/or disguise, etc.

[gurgleflep]

There are sooooooooo many other things in 3.5 that could be addressed. There's no reason just being white means they're different. Even if they're used as spies most of the time, that just means those that choose them put ranks into bluff and/or disguise, etc.

Thanks to the tidbit I've bolded in your comment, I now realize how racist I now appear.
This saddens me. :smallfrown:

[Rethmar]

I feel like your point is, "Why are they even listed as a separate race if they are just albinos?"

Maybe they should have just put the info in a paragraph in the Drow section.

[Tokuhara]

The Szarkai aren't a subspecies of a subrace: they're a sect, much like the Clergy or the Wizards. The Szarkai, due to their rare mutation, are a social caste all their own. It isn't a race, but I'd give the Szarkai sect a different favored class (beguiler) and be done with it.

[cogminded]

I feel like your point is, "Why are they even listed as a separate race if they are just albinos?"

Maybe they should have just put the info in a paragraph in the Drow section.

That is what I would read the point as

It's not so much "Why don't they have different stats?" as "why did they bother giving it a separate race if it's no different?"

And it is a fair question, it is a redundant entry that could have been done in a way that at least made it feel worth reading

[gurgleflep]

I feel like your point is, "Why are they even listed as a separate race if they are just albinos?"

Maybe they should have just put the info in a paragraph in the Drow section.

That would have made it less annoying.


The Szarkai aren't a subspecies of a subrace: they're a sect, much like the Clergy or the Wizards. The Szarkai, due to their rare mutation, are a social caste all their own. It isn't a race, but I'd give the Szarkai sect a different favored class (beguiler) and be done with it.

Thank you for explaining it like that. It's not so aggravating now.


It's not so much "Why don't they have different stats?" as "why did they bother giving it a separate race if it's no different?"

And it is a fair question, it is a redundant entry that could have been done in a way that at least made it feel worth reading

I prefer your version of the question. It seems more... fitting? Appropriate? Either way.
I'm glad I'm not the only person who feels this/that way.

[Tokuhara]

Thank you for explaining it like that. It's not so aggravating now.



You're welcome. I've run just about every 3.5 drow-themed campaign, as well as trying to do a rewrite of the GDQ 1-7 AD&D Module (Web of the Spider Queen), as well as played every kind of drow subrace in the books (Aquatic Drow, Deepwyrm, Szarkai, "Standard," and Fey'ari, along with the halfblood versions) as a player. One could say that if there's ever a drow question, I can probably answer it.

[thethird]

Here is a drow question :smalltongue:

Were are those varieties found? I normally kept myself away from drow but Fey'ari sounds like an intriguing name.

[Jeraa]

Here is a drow question :smalltongue:

Were are those varieties found? I normally kept myself away from drow but Fey'ari sounds like an intriguing name.

I'm not familiar with Fey'ari, but assuming he actually meant Fey'ri, they aren't a drow subrace. They are a race of half-fiend elves from Forgotten Realms, descended from sun elves and demons. They can be found in Races of Faerun.

[thethird]

I knew those ones and they are pretty cool. Potentially broken with lesser planetouched RAW.

[Slipperychicken]

You are aggravated that a make-believe race of evil black people has the same stats as their white counterparts.


Think about that. You could probably see my point better if you replace "Drow" with "Human".

[Spuddles]

Why are drow black. Subterranean species very rarely have melanization.

Was TSR just that racist?

[Jeraa]

Why are drow black. Subterranean species are almost very rarely have melanization.

Was TSR just that racist?

Helps them blend in with the night when they do surface raids.

[TuggyNE]

One could say that if there's ever a drow question, I can probably answer it.

You should start a thread for drow questions! :smalltongue:

[Slipperychicken]

Helps them blend in with the night when they do surface raids.

IIRC, having dark skin doesn't give a bonus on Hide checks in darkness.

[Flickerdart]

Why are drow black. Subterranean species very rarely have melanization.

Was TSR just that racist?
Because Lolth doesn't care about things like "making sense".

[Jeraa]

IIRC, having dark skin doesn't give a bonus on Hide checks in darkness.

So? Its a descriptive thing, not a mechanical thing.

[Tokuhara]

Here is a drow question :smalltongue:

Were are those varieties found? I normally kept myself away from drow but Fey'ari sounds like an intriguing name.

Sorry folks. I misspelled the Fey'ri, who, while not being drow have much more in common with them in practice, so I keep them grouped with the Drow and often use them in drow-themed encounters (usually having a Drow Priestess, two Fey'ri bodyguards, and some spider-like critters as punching bags)

As for the others:

Deepwyrm Drow are from Dragon Magic. They are descendants of Drow interbreeding with Deep Dragons. They have deep violet skin instead of ebony

Aquatic Drow were never a 1st party race, coming from Plot and Poison, a 3rd Party Drow book akin to Drow of the Underdark. Very fun to use in the Underdark against an unsuspecting party. Think Aquatic Elves with Drow Abilities.

And Half-Drow are from the Faerun Books. Basically, take Half-Elves and give them Darkvision. You now have Half-Drow. Give them Aquatic stuff and you have Half-Aquatic Drow. Dragon Magic also has Deepwyrm Half-Drow (my favorite version of Half-Drow), and without changes to the Half-Drow, you can call a Half-Drow a Half-Szarkai.

And for those who are truly demented, that book (Plot & Poison) also has a Half-Drow template for use. It's 1LA, but slap that on a Deep Imaskari or on a Grimlock and you now have even more options for Drow-Themed Encounters.

And let's not forget the two Drow sub-monsters: Driders and Scorrows (Half-Drow Half-Spider/Scorpions) and if you are truly sick, you can drop in some more demented things like Lolth-Touched and one could take the Godblooded template and make a Lolth-Blooded template out of it.

Drow are a cool monster that I feel are underutilized and should be given more screen time.

[gurgleflep]

You are aggravated that a make-believe race of evil black people has the same stats as their white counterparts.


Think about that. You could probably see my point better if you replace "Drow" with "Human".

I'm aware of how racist this seems, I pointed that out five comments before your comment which I've just quoted.


Sorry folks. I misspelled the Fey'ri, who, while not being drow have much more in common with them in practice, so I keep them grouped with the Drow and often use them in drow-themed encounters (usually having a Drow Priestess, two Fey'ri bodyguards, and some spider-like critters as punching bags)

As for the others:

Deepwyrm Drow are from Dragon Magic. They are descendants of Drow interbreeding with Deep Dragons. They have deep violet skin instead of ebony

Aquatic Drow were never a 1st party race, coming from Plot and Poison, a 3rd Party Drow book akin to Drow of the Underdark. Very fun to use in the Underdark against an unsuspecting party. Think Aquatic Elves with Drow Abilities.

And Half-Drow are from the Faerun Books. Basically, take Half-Elves and give them Darkvision. You now have Half-Drow. Give them Aquatic stuff and you have Half-Aquatic Drow. Dragon Magic also has Deepwyrm Half-Drow (my favorite version of Half-Drow), and without changes to the Half-Drow, you can call a Half-Drow a Half-Szarkai.

And for those who are truly demented, that book (Plot & Poison) also has a Half-Drow template for use. It's 1LA, but slap that on a Deep Imaskari or on a Grimlock and you now have even more options for Drow-Themed Encounters.

And let's not forget the two Drow sub-monsters: Driders and Scorrows (Half-Drow Half-Spider/Scorpions) and if you are truly sick, you can drop in some more demented things like Lolth-Touched and one could take the Godblooded template and make a Lolth-Blooded template out of it.

Drow are a cool monster that I feel are underutilized and should be given more screen time.

You, sir, have helped me further advance any and all quests I use. I quite like drow elves (and all related species and sub-species). With this information you've given me, my players are now going to hate me even more (but in a good way!).

[Tokuhara]

You, sir, have helped me further advance any and all quests I use. I quite like drow elves (and all related species and sub-species). With this information you've given me, my players are now going to hate me even more (but in a good way!).

Glad to help. If you need any more information, just ask on the thread I just posted on Drow Questions.

[Spuddles]

IIRC, having dark skin doesn't give a bonus on Hide checks in darkness.

It does in FATAL!!

[Coidzor]

It does in FATAL!!

*le gasp* That which must not be named!

[gurgleflep]

It does in FATAL!!


*le gasp* That which must not be named!

I'm sorry, but what is fatal?

[TuggyNE]

I'm sorry, but what is fatal?

That which must not be named! :smalleek:


Or, more precisely, a game awful in its awfulness, filled with NSFW random tables and pointless precision in its stats, not to mention a generally worthless set of mechanics. It allegedly had playtesters, but no word has ever come from those forsaken souls.

It is generally considered the worst roleplaying game ever created and published.

[gurgleflep]

That which must not be named! :smalleek:


Or, more precisely, a game awful in its awfulness, filled with NSFW random tables and pointless precision in its stats, not to mention a generally worthless set of mechanics. It allegedly had playtesters, but no word has ever come from those forsaken souls.

It is generally considered the worst roleplaying game ever created and published.

Something tells me I'd regret looking it up. So I'm not going to!
Thanks for filling me in on this though :smallsmile:

[LOTRfan]

I personally believe that one doesn't have the right to criticize a work until they have experienced it themselves. So I spent a weekend looking over it.

It lives up to its horrific reputation.

[gurgleflep]

I personally believe that one doesn't have the right to criticize a work until they have experienced it themselves. So I spent a weekend looking over it.

It lives up to its horrific reputation.

Indeed it does. I've read up on them as much as I could (couldn't find them outside of DotU), listened (and replied) to a lot of the comments in this thread, and fought them in a campaign I was in. Thanks to all of you guys and girls, I want to play as one now. I'm not aggravated so much as bummed now.

[Spuddles]

That which must not be named! :smalleek:


Or, more precisely, a game awful in its awfulness, filled with NSFW random tables and pointless precision in its stats, not to mention a generally worthless set of mechanics. It allegedly had playtesters, but no word has ever come from those forsaken souls.

It is generally considered the worst roleplaying game ever created and published.

Roll for anal circumference!

[Coidzor]

Something tells me I'd regret looking it up. So I'm not going to!
Thanks for filling me in on this though :smallsmile:

The reviews are pretty lulzy though, and you get to savor the suffering of the reviewers. Like fine wine and bitter tears.

[LTwerewolf]

Thanks to the tidbit I've bolded in your comment, I now realize how racist I now appear.
This saddens me. :smallfrown:

Didn't intend to make you feel racist at all, just that biologically there's little difference between an albino something and the original in nearly all cases.

^Notice the use of nearly, yes I am aware there are select cases where this is not the case for those of you that want to be irritating.