Whips in Pathfinder

[LadyBriar]

Does using a whip on a creature in melee suffer the same -4 penalty as a bow would, and if not, why wouldn't it? I know that for some things it is considered a melee weapon, but for things such as attacks of opportunity is is regarded as ranged... so I would LOVE some clarification on this. So far I've ruled that if the whip user is adjacent to his target than he may forgo the penalty due to proximity, but if he's using it from a range, then in regard to the in melee penalty, I'm treating it as suffering the -4.

Thoughts?

[JackRose]

Does using a whip on a creature in melee suffer the same -4 penalty as a bow would, and if not, why wouldn't it? I know that for some things it is considered a melee weapon, but for things such as attacks of opportunity is is regarded as ranged... so I would LOVE some clarification on this. So far I've ruled that if the whip user is adjacent to his target than he may forgo the penalty due to proximity, but if he's using it from a range, then in regard to the in melee penalty, I'm treating it as suffering the -4.

Thoughts?

I would say no.

A whip is not a ranged weapon, it is a melee weapon. There are a few ways in which it does not act like other melee weapons (having both reach and targeting adjacent creatures, provoking AoOs, not threatening) but I would in general say that except in the cases where it behaving in another manner is specifically noted, treat it as a melee weapon.

By the same token, I don't think you'd take a penalty for attacking into melee with a lance or a longspear. That said, depending on the positioning of the melee combatants, one of them might have cover from the other WRT you.

[LadyBriar]

I would say no.

A whip is not a ranged weapon, it is a melee weapon. There are a few ways in which it does not act like other melee weapons (having both reach and targeting adjacent creatures, provoking AoOs, not threatening) but I would in general say that except in the cases where it behaving in another manner is specifically noted, treat it as a melee weapon.

By the same token, I don't think you'd take a penalty for attacking into melee with a lance or a longspear. That said, depending on the positioning of the melee combatants, one of them might have cover from the other WRT you.

My issues is that a spear or javelin is a rigid object, a whip is not. I dunno... I'll have to think on it more.

[Hendel]

Per the rules, the whip is a one-handed melee with a 15 foot reach. There is no -4 penalty for attacking into a melee as with ranged weapons.

It also states that it does draw attacks of opportunity for use like a ranged weapon, but that is the only aspect of it that is like a ranged attack.

[TuggyNE]

It also states that it does draw attacks of opportunity for use like a ranged weapon, but that is the only aspect of it that is like a ranged attack.

Technically, like all reach weapons (including halberds, etc), it determines cover like a ranged weapon.

But no, a whip does not and need not take -4 for attacking into melee, aside from possible soft cover.

[NikitaDarkstar]

You seem to be confusing ranged weapons (projectile weapons) with reach weapons (weapons able to attack things not directly in the wielders face). As for the whole "ridged" reasoning, I'm sorry, but it's an exotic weapon, if you have the feat for proficiency in it you know how to use it properly, despite it being a somewhat unique weapon.

Other than hat the others have covered my thoughts on this.

Also for future reference, you're much more likely to get fast, knowledgeable, answers if you post in the D&D 3e/3.5/D20 forum (yhea they need to add PF to the name, really) as the forum is dedicated to such things and the regulars in there really knows their stuff. :)

[Hendel]

Technically, like all reach weapons (including halberds, etc), it determines cover like a ranged weapon.

But no, a whip does not and need not take -4 for attacking into melee, aside from possible soft cover.
You are correct! I failed to mention that as it is applicable to all reach weapons.

[Souju]

And then there are Scorpion Whips...which depending on how the DM feels to interpret the very confusing entries about them (there are two different entries in two different source books that basically say two different things) either count as the same proficiency as whips or their own proficiency, has the 15 foot reach a whip has or just 10 foot reach, threatens squares or doesn't threaten squares...
Made my head hurt a bit looking into THAT errata...throw in the feats that let you grapple with a whip and the damned things make baby Space Jesus cry...

[Daftendirekt]

The rules for whips are the same in PF as in 3.5:

-Melee weapon with non-threatening 15' reach.
-Provoke AoOs from adjacent enemies just like attacking with a ranged weapon does.


However, there's a new group of feats that actually make whips pretty effing awesome.

Whip Mastery (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/whip-mastery-combat), Improved Whip Mastery (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/improved-whip-mastery-combat), Serpent Lash (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/serpent-lash-combat), and Greater Serpent Lash (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/greater-serpent-lash-combat).

I had a Maneuver Master Monk/Lore Warden fighter that was going to take those feats and be a total badass with a whip, but didn't get a chance to play it because the campaign ended.