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View Full Version : [3.5] "New" combat mechanics : trip, sunder, parry (peach)



Nolthestranger
2013-03-23, 06:26 PM
“The world as we have created it is a process of our thinking. It cannot be changed without changing our thinking.”
― Albert Einstein

I’m here today to do just that ! People, I must say this to you, martial combat is boring (only speaking about actual in fight options, not talking about ToB related awesomness)

Therefore I, (We for those of you who actually read this, and not only spamm refresh to make me cry myself to sleep with the Answers/read ratio) We then, need a change.

Ever wondered why nobody ever uses grappling, bullrush, trip, disarm or sunder* ? Except for those highly specialized one trick pony like the chin tripping fighter ? Well, that’s because :
1) It sucks if you were not born with an acute sense of tripping (understand perfect stats, racial feats and astrological traits fitting that one goal : becoming the world’s greatest leg-sweeper)
2) It is just a frakking pain to explain to a lvl 1 party made of beginners (and that old timer in the back, recording your struggle on camera)

It is for that reason that new, simpler rules need to be made :
Why is my fighter stronger at disarming than my monk (yeah I know) ? Irl, I have absolutely no sense of sword fighting, yet a 25h course of krav maga may provide me with the knowledge to disarm and steal an opponent’s weapon !

Why can’t my mage or my ranger follow a similar course, in the ever increasing case that someone reaches melee range and hulk-smash them ?

Granted, Hurrdurr the lvl 1 pureblooded half giant/half orc’s strength might make him slightly better at it, but that doesn’t mean the leg sweep is out of the question !

I’ve read a decent amout of systems on these, and I’m an advocate of the “the simpler, the simpler” motto, I hereby suggest :

-Skill checks

-Making a trip attack :
Step I : hitting with a tripping weapon, or as part of a touch attack if unarmed
Note : Still provokes aoo if unarmed

Step II : Opposed rolls of “Trip” (str) versus” Balance”

Step III : You win : opponent prone,
you lose, reverse the skill checks or drop your weapon.

“But why would it be “better”?”
Having a named skill will always be easier to remember than a random set of unique rules
And this way, anyone can learn how to trip (using my “no class skills” variant)
There would of course be bonus’s :
The opponent is larger : he gets +4 to balance per size category
The opponent is smaller : he gets -4 to balance per size category
More than two legs/racial stability : +4 to balance
Opponent unaware : undetermined large malus
Opponent successfully feinted off balance : undetermined large malus

-Making a disarm attempt :
Step I : Parrying with a disarming weapon, or an unarmed attack
Or : Attempting a parry from scratch : Incurs an Aoo from defender

Step II : Opposed rolls of “Disarm” (dex?) vs “Discipline” (wis?)

Step III : You win : Opponent disarmed,
you lose : reverse skill check

“But why would it be “better”?”
We lose the opposed attack rolls, thus negating bab effect. Note that fighters using a disarming weapon will still have a slight edge (no aoo, free disarm from a parry)
I’m opened to suggestions as to Associated characteristic on Discipline and Disarm.
I was thinking of using discipline vs feint also, as a trained warrior will see a feint coming, unlike your city’s attorney. (though he is exceptionally good at judging people ! I don’t understand I was told it was related !)

-Making a bull rush attempt :
I never used bull rush, can anyone do this for me ?

-Making a sunder attempt :
Let’s see we want to hit the guys weapon with brute strength, so how about faking a slow and easily countered blow, to suddenly accelerate and hit his weapon at full speed ?
That sounds like something an experienced fighter would see coming, so Discipline it is.

Step I : Opponent successfully parried one of your strikes
Or : Attempting one from scratch with an opposed attack roll. If you win, go to step II. If you lose, you get thrown off balance and suffer an aoo.

Step II : Opposed rolls of “Sunder” versus “Discipline”

Step III : you win : apply damage to the item you’re sundering,
You lose : You get cleanly deflected, thrown off balance and suffers an aoo.


“But why would it be “better”?”
Not sure about everything here, but it allows low bab/high parry rate to try this
Standard bonus still apply :
-4 for light weapons to Sunder
+4 for 2H weapons to sunder
+4 per size category

-Making a parry attempt :

Step I : beat an the attack roll with your own attack roll
Step II : You win : blow is deflected
You lose : You take it in the groin and look clumsy

Problems :
Do we make it an immediate action, limited by the amount of aoo you have
Every one’s gonna try and parry every blow : Not good, so we’d need a disadvantage

Do we make it so that you have to forgo attack actions, saving them for later that turn ?
Well that’s going to be boring at low level

Do we want it to happen Before the enemy’s attack roll ?
Well if I have to forgo my attacks to finally suffer a miserable attempt at hitting me, resulting in a fumble, I’ll have wasted a turn, besides, I’m not convinced about trying to gess which attack will hit, and from where this turn

Do we want it to happen After the enemy’s attack roll ?
Could be a nice second chance, especially with the Dr from armor variant from UA, but it’s going to push things in favor of the defender

Do we want it to apply only to the focus of your dodge, or similar feat ? (or simply against a designated opponent ?)
More realistic, and implies gauging each round where the stick’s coming from.

Do we want it to be opened to every incoming strike ?
Could be a nice feeling, but that and multiple aoo’s and you get yourself one hell of a target to hit, and swarming enemies are supposed to have some kind of advantage here aren’t they ?

As of now, I’m inclined toward this :
Immediate action, limited by aoo, but each failed check gives a free Aoo to the attacker
May forgo an attack action for a fixed bonus (like +5) to your parry check
Before the attack roll, but compensated by :
One enemy only

With feats to add aoo, multiple enemies, and bonus to the check, countering.

Shoot !

-Nol