Cleric to Rez Durkon [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Olinser

2013-03-24, 11:24 AM

NerdyKris

2013-03-24, 11:35 AM

Because they'd have to kill vampire Durkon first. And his body is currently walking around with another high level vampire and doesn't really seem into the whole idea of getting staked.

Shred-Bot

2013-03-24, 12:07 PM

Well, Resurrection is above the cleric of Loki's caster level, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0602.html) and since that is also level 7 he must have used a scroll for Regenerate.

Bottom line, though, there just aren't a whole lot of high level clerics wandering around ... the ones we know of that can cast Resurrection as a spell are: Redcloak, Durkon, and (maybe) the one who raised the Oracle (though that might be a scroll also, and in any case they don't appear to be advertising their services for the general public). Hilgya is a possibility, but we don't know if she survived the exploding dungeon or if she counted as enough of a rival to get the leveling boost that Crystal did.

torugo

2013-03-24, 01:11 PM

I think raise dead would work as well. Its a much lower level spell and works wonders ^^

hamishspence

2013-03-24, 01:14 PM

Doesn't work on people who have been turned to undead, then their undead bodies slain, though- only Resurrection or above does that.

Copperdragon

2013-03-24, 01:15 PM

I think raise dead would work as well. Its a much lower level spell and works wonders ^^

A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can’t be raised by this spell.

Sorry, Raise Dead is useless for this. You need Resurrection.

Olinser

2013-03-24, 02:50 PM

Shred-Bot

2013-03-24, 03:00 PM

Yes, but the fact he was pretty easily able to secure a scroll and was able to cast it shows that it's really not that difficult to find a cleric if you actually LOOK for one.

Presumably someone does have to be making these scrolls, yes. But the Order doesn't actually have time to go searching for clerics, Xykon and Redcloak aren't going to agree to a timeout while they get everything back in order. (and since Elf can't cast Teleport, any search is going to take a while)

exenia

2013-03-24, 03:02 PM

Heck, even before Durkula I've been convinced we'll see the unnamed cleric of Loki resurface again. Just can't think of any contrived reason for him to be hanging around near Girard's fort, and the party has no way to pull him in.

Mike Havran

2013-03-24, 03:12 PM

The Order know that there is a High Priest of Thor somewhere in the dwarven lands, who will probably be willing to help.

Zallera

2013-03-24, 05:07 PM

Id imagine most High Priests of a major deity would be capable of casting Resurrection, I'm guessing in Oots you get to be the high priest via some combination of seniority and class level. Barring that their best bet would be to head north to the elven lands, they live long enough that they must have a high level cleric or 2 hanging around.

hamishspence

2013-03-24, 05:11 PM

The High Priest of the Twelve Gods was roughly Redcloak's equal going by that fight:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0456.html\

and Azure City is huge for a D&D city- population of a quarter million living within the city walls alone.

Though the city is also said to be smaller than Cliffport, in the War & XPs section on Azure City.

Skamandros

2013-03-24, 06:32 PM

Funny, Roy is the one person in the party who knows exactly where and when they can find a cleric capable of casting Resurrection:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0571.html

If they don't want to wait that long, there's a good chance that they could find those guys by checking up on temples to Tiamat.

Grogmir

2013-03-24, 08:44 PM

It'll be the cleric of thor most likely, back in D's homeland.

Time is an issue. And we know D will bring

Death and destruction to his homeland... So He'll turn up there as a vamp "worshipping" Nurkel most likely.

Cavenskull

2013-03-24, 09:44 PM

So, I was reading Roy's rant again, and I realized something.

What exactly is so hard about finding a high-level cleric to resurrect Durkon?

Honestly, the only reason that Roy spent so long dead was that Haley wasn't actually LOOKING for a Cleric to bring him back. She and Belkar were just camped out raiding Azure City.

And even then, other than the Oracle, the only city that they even visited was Greysky - where they actually FOUND a Cleric that could have brought him back, when they were holed up in somebody's basement. (Pete's cleric pal had previously Regenerated his eyes - a 7th level spell).

So what exactly makes Roy think it's so hard to find a cleric to resurrect him, other than he's just freaking out?
The problem isn't finding a cleric. The problem is finding a cleric RIGHT NOW, before the next fight. The Linear Guild is still out there somewhere regrouping, and thanks to Belkar's bad news report, the Order of the Stick knows there's still at least one very deadly threat inside the temple. On top of this, they know Xykon could show up at any moment. It took the Order of the Stick days to get to Windy Canyon. They don't have the three days needed to travel back to Bleedingham. They don't have the week or so it would take to get back to Sandsedge. And they don't have the days or possibly weeks to check all the other oppressive regimes for a cleric to do the job.

Even if they had Durkon's corpse on the ground right in front of them, they might have maybe three hours (probably a lot less) to locate a qualified cleric, all the while knowing that the Linear Guild is lurking about and that Xykon could show up at any time. At this point, they need a cleric to barge in from a side door with a snappy greeting while a studio audience claps and cheers. That's not going to happen, and since they can't even walk out of the temple without risking another combat encounter with an enemy that has already killed one party member and incapacitated another, the absence of an immediately available cleric is a major problem.

Sky_Schemer

2013-03-24, 10:14 PM

The problem isn't finding a cleric. The problem is finding a cleric RIGHT NOW, before the next fight.

I would suggest that, even without the time constraint, there is still a more complicated issue: finding a cleric that is willing to even do it at all.

As adventurers one can think of death as being a temporary inconvenience, but to the vast majority of people in the world, death is permanent and the natural order of things. One can't just walk in to a random temple and ask for a sufficiently high level priest or priestess to raise the dead and expect that they will say yes. The first question is likely to be, why should they disturb the natural cycle of life and death? The second is likely to be, are you and the deceased followers of insert-the-temple's-deity-here? And then, the cleric must ask their deity for the spell, and there's no guarantee that he or she will provide it, especially if would not directly serve the deity's will.

The world of adventuring clerics is very different from those who spend their lives in a church or whatnot. One can't just assume that they have the same view of the world, even if they worship the same god.

Bogardan_Mage

2013-03-24, 10:29 PM

I would suggest that, even without the time constraint, there is still a more complicated issue: finding a cleric that is willing to even do it at all.

As adventurers one can think of death as being a temporary inconvenience, but to the vast majority of people in the world, death is permanent and the natural order of things. One can't just walk in to a random temple and ask for a sufficiently high level priest or priestess to raise the dead and expect that they will say yes. The first question is likely to be, why should they disturb the natural cycle of life and death? The second is likely to be, are you and the deceased followers of insert-the-temple's-deity-here? And then, the cleric must ask their deity for the spell, and there's no guarantee that he or she will provide it, especially if would not directly serve the deity's will.

The world of adventuring clerics is very different from those who spend their lives in a church or whatnot. One can't just assume that they have the same view of the world, even if they worship the same god.
That argument doesn't really hold up when those spells actually exist, though. The "natural cycle" is disturbed on a daily basis, even if it is just by adventurers. Malack and other clerics of death deities might be reluctant to overrule their patrons, so to speak, but for a cleric of a deity with no direct stake in the allegedly natural cycle of life and death such an argument strikes me as one formulated in a world where death is unavoidable and awkwardly crammed into one where it is not.

That's just speaking generally. For OotS in particular, there is zero evidence that anyone holds such a view of Resurrection-type spells, and given that the cleric in Greysky city was willing and able (I mean, someone had to scribe that scroll, didn't they?) to do it, there is evidence to the contrary.

Tre of the Wood

2013-03-24, 10:38 PM

Heck, if they manage to find a scroll, couldn't Belkar presumably use it?

Bogardan_Mage

2013-03-24, 10:47 PM

Heck, if they manage to find a scroll, couldn't Belkar presumably use it?
Resurrection isn't on the Ranger list, and he doesn't have the Wisdom for it either. Haley probably has enough Use Magical Device to do it, though.

Sky_Schemer

2013-03-24, 11:12 PM

That argument doesn't really hold up when those spells actually exist, though. The "natural cycle" is disturbed on a daily basis, even if it is just by adventurers.

The costs of these spells are not trivial, so no, I doubt that they are distributed frequently, much less on a daily basis.

That's just speaking generally. For OotS in particular, there is zero evidence that anyone holds such a view of Resurrection-type spells, and given that the cleric in Greysky city was willing and able (I mean, someone had to scribe that scroll, didn't they?) to do it, there is evidence to the contrary.

Greysky City is the black market on a city-wide scale. It's one giant Tenderloin District.

MoleMage

2013-03-25, 12:02 AM

OtOoPCs spoilers:
In the graveyard scene, and in the fighter college scene with Roy's dad, it's revealed that there are indeed clerics capable of raising the dead. Roy's "uncle" (really an old adventuring buddy of his dad's) is probably dead at this point, but there was also the unfortunate soul who got killed like 5 times in the same year and just gave up; someone had to bring him back all those times.

Not to mention the guy in Celestia who was using the revolving door and would be staying just until morning. The question isn't whether it is possible to find clerics to raise people. It's how much hassle it is going to be to get to them, and how much it is going to cost for the service.

Lord Torath

2013-03-25, 03:05 PM

Shred-Bot

2013-03-25, 03:10 PM

Don't forget that the Thieve'd Guild paid the Temple of Loki in Greysky City to have all the rogues Haley and Belkar killed (and one of the ones nameless cleric killed) raised. Again, that's Greysky City, and leagues away from the remains of the Order, but the point remains there are many clerics capable of Resurrection. Just none close enough and willing to help the Order.:smallfrown:

Well... don't forget that Raise Dead != Resurrection (Level 5 spell vs. Level 7). I don't think any of the rogues who died in that battle needed a Resurrection, as they were all (as far as I remember) standard damage kills. Durkon, however, would need the Resurrection due to the undead transformation.

Olinser

2013-03-25, 03:20 PM

Well... don't forget that Raise Dead != Resurrection (Level 5 spell vs. Level 7). I don't think any of the rogues who died in that battle needed a Resurrection, as they were all (as far as I remember) standard damage kills. Durkon, however, would need the Resurrection due to the undead transformation.

Belkar definitely cut at least one into pieces - Resurrection needed.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0611.html

TheYell

2013-03-25, 04:04 PM

Shred-Bot

2013-03-25, 04:06 PM

Belkar definitely cut at least one into pieces - Resurrection needed.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0611.html

Shouldn't you still be able to use Raise Dead if you have all the pieces and arrange them back together? I was under the impression that Resurrection only became needed if parts were missing (assuming no time, death effect, or undead issues). The SRD wording is not super clear either:

While the spell closes mortal wounds and repairs lethal damage of most kinds, the body of the creature to be raised must be whole. Otherwise, missing parts are still missing when the creature is brought back to life.

It seems that a DM could kind of screw you over if their description of your character death involved cutting them in half rather than lethal damage that didn't separate body parts. (Which doesn't mean you're wrong... just that they did a subpar job writing the rule :smallbiggrin:)

Olinser

2013-03-25, 04:12 PM

Shouldn't you still be able to use Raise Dead if you have all the pieces and arrange them back together? I was under the impression that Resurrection only became needed if parts were missing (assuming no time, death effect, or undead issues). The SRD wording is not super clear either:

It seems that a DM could kind of screw you over if their description of your character death involved cutting them in half rather than lethal damage that didn't separate body parts. (Which doesn't mean you're wrong... just that they did a subpar job writing the rule :smallbiggrin:)

Well, the spell says specifically, "missing parts are still missing when the creature is brought back."

You could either interpret that to mean that if his arm got cut off, as long as you have the arm there it will heal back on, but I was under the impression that if you lost a limb, raise dead would NOT heal it back on.

Belkar cut that guy into 3 equal parts - I doubt very much that a simple raise dead is going to cut the mustard.

Cavenskull

2013-03-25, 06:11 PM

I've said before Roy wasn't thinking clearly there.

He's got what's left of the Sapphire Guild to help find a cleric, and they have friendly relations with a number of kingdoms. There's also anybody on the Western Continent who doesn't dig vampires. Also Celia could help look.
I'm sure he's aware of all that, but what's the point in contemplating a bunch of useless options? It's not simply that he needs a cleric to resurrect Durkon, he needs a cleric to keep them alive long enough to protect the gate from two groups of high-level villains. Every option you've listed is already too late to do any good, even if the party writes off the resurrection of Durkon completely. And in the case of Celia, the last "cleric" she found ended up making the party's problems a lot worse.

But yes, nobody at hand immediately, which must be frustrating.
Not just frustrating, but a potentially deadly problem. When a lich, a goblin high-priest, and two vampires are merely part of the opposition lined up against the Order, the odds of surviving without a capable cleric look pretty bleak.

Grogmir

2013-03-25, 06:15 PM

two vampires are merely part of the opposition lined up against the Order

One of those Vampires is only temporary part of the opposition.

Yes they've lost this battle for this gate. They currently don't have a cleric, but give it a few days. Durkula will have his free will back. He'll be back with the order and they'll all move on to the final climatic battle for last gate.

Kish

2013-03-25, 06:21 PM

And in the case of Celia, the last "cleric" she found ended up making the party's problems a lot worse.
Wow, and I thought I had a low opinion of Belkar.

MoleMage

2013-03-25, 06:26 PM

Wow, and I thought I had a low opinion of Belkar.

He means Grubwiggler. The guy who made Roy into a bone golem.

dps

2013-03-25, 06:29 PM

Well, the spell says specifically, "missing parts are still missing when the creature is brought back."

You could either interpret that to mean that if his arm got cut off, as long as you have the arm there it will heal back on, but I was under the impression that if you lost a limb, raise dead would NOT heal it back on.

Belkar cut that guy into 3 equal parts - I doubt very much that a simple raise dead is going to cut the mustard.

I take it to mean that you have to maybe sew the severed parts back on first if you want them to heal.

Rogar Demonblud

2013-03-25, 08:36 PM

Resurrection isn't on the Ranger list, and he doesn't have the Wisdom for it either. Haley probably has enough Use Magical Device to do it, though.

Actually, thinking it over, I'm not sure we've ever seen Haley use UMD. She has the boots and bag, but everything else has been arms, armor or potions. None of those need UMD.

Kish

2013-03-25, 08:43 PM

Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tails.

Belkar<3

2013-03-25, 09:00 PM

Olinser

2013-03-25, 09:36 PM

Hey, I think you're all forgotten something . . . Durkon's last request, which is why Malack let Belkar go. I have sufficient faith in Lawful Evil that two high-level vampire clerics will be able to dissuade the LG from attacking them. Any thoughts?

To be blunt, if they ever seriously challenged his authority, Tarquin would kill them both. I'd honestly be more surprised if he DIDN'T have some kind of contingency in place to immediately destroy Malack if he ever turned on him.

The two of them may book it for the hills, but there is no way Tarquin would ever agree to give up his prize if he weren't forced to retreat from Xykon.

Bogardan_Mage

2013-03-25, 10:18 PM

The costs of these spells are not trivial, so no, I doubt that they are distributed frequently, much less on a daily basis.
Well I doubt that any cleric has any qualms about your "natural order". Would you like to address the core of my point or are you content to nitpick the frequency of their use?

Greysky City is the black market on a city-wide scale. It's one giant Tenderloin District.
It's still evidence, whereas you have presented none.

isoriveil

2013-03-25, 10:39 PM

Hey, I think you're all forgotten something . . . Durkon's last request, which is why Malack let Belkar go. I have sufficient faith in Lawful Evil that two high-level vampire clerics will be able to dissuade the LG from attacking them. Any thoughts?
My guess is, they won't "dissuade", they will either simply not take part in the fight (but Tarquin alone is a threat, let's be real) or with Durkula's knowledge persuade Tarquin to join forces against TE.

Cavenskull

2013-03-25, 10:40 PM

One of those Vampires is only temporary part of the opposition.

Yes they've lost this battle for this gate. They currently don't have a cleric, but give it a few days. Durkula will have his free will back. He'll be back with the order and they'll all move on to the final climatic battle for last gate.
They don't have days. Hell, they might not even have hours. Considering that every gate they've seen has been accompanied by a massive explosion, they can't be sure they can destroy the gate without killing themselves, and even something as apparently simple as running away can be deadly when they have to run through a party (or two) of high-level villains in the process. Sure, we know that as being a story, the main characters will get through this somehow, but they don't know that.

Wow, and I thought I had a low opinion of Belkar.

He means Grubwiggler. The guy who made Roy into a bone golem.
That is correct.

veti

2013-03-25, 10:40 PM

To be blunt, if they ever seriously challenged his authority, Tarquin would kill them both. I'd honestly be more surprised if he DIDN'T have some kind of contingency in place to immediately destroy Malack if he ever turned on him.

Tarquin would kill the Count Formerly Known As Durkon without a second thought, sure. But Malack is a different matter. They go way back, and Malack is one of a very select few people whom Tarquin relies on to make his plan work. He'd be extremely hard, perhaps impossible, to replace.

So I don't think Tarquin would kill Malack willingly. As a last resort, maybe - but not in response to a mere 'challenge to his authority'. I'm pretty sure Malack is one of precisely five people in the world who have the license to do that with impunity, when they consider it necessary. (How else could an adventuring party work?)

Surfing HalfOrc

2013-03-25, 11:58 PM

I can think of a cleric who is of high enough level, and has a reason to raise Durkon:
Hilgya. :smallcool:
I am firmly of the theory that she became pregnant with Durkon's Love Children, twins that she named Death and Destruction.

Think about it. Nothing says character growth more than becoming a parent, IF you attempt to live up to your responsibilities.

Hilgya is Durkon's "rival," which means she levels up the same time as Durkon. (Worked for Crystal!) So since she now is of the same level as Durkon, she can Raise Dead on him and get him back on his feet before the final show down.

It all fits. Zzidr't came back, so why not Hilgya? Crystal got "Free" levels, and Hilgya may now have a reason to Raise Durkon. The only flaw I see is the repetitiveness of "killed/becomes a monster/raised/back in the game" storyline.

EDITED for Spelling errors...

Grogmir

2013-03-26, 06:34 PM

They don't have days. Hell, they might not even have hours. Considering that every gate they've seen has been accompanied by a massive explosion, they can't be sure they can destroy the gate without killing themselves, and even something as apparently simple as running away can be deadly when they have to run through a party (or two) of high-level villains in the process. Sure, we know that as being a story, the main characters will get through this somehow, but they don't know that.

Indeed, agree completely. To them it sure will look hopeless, to us as well, unfortunately we know that its always darkest before the dawn and that somehow, using OotS mad cap tactics the party will survive.

No they don't have the time to defend this gate. And the action will probably quickly move on to the final gate but I think D will be back i(n Vamp form) with the party before that happens. (For reasons I spoilered in my previous post)

Its only 2 days by magic carpet back to bleedingham, when D should be release. I'm pretty sure The Giant didn't turn D just to say. Thats it, he's dead. Character over.. move on, nothing to see. Seeing how D deals with his new undead status will be the "major character growth" The Giant has hinted at in the past.

Now if i seemed dismissive of your point, i'm sorry, I actually agree, I just wrapped it in with the ongoing posts about "Who will join the order now D has gone?" "Who will be the OotSs cleric" Etc... When imo that cleric is D.

In fact, pretty sure in the short term at least, that D and therefore the OotS, just got a serious power up and once he's got his freewill back, learnt how to deal with his Vamp Status and hooked back up with the order, they'll actually be in a better position to take on Xykon for the final gate.

Now, those are all big big "once's" to us if we subjectively judge their situation right now. But alas, we are readers of a story and we know the power of plot compels it.

dps

2013-03-26, 11:50 PM

The two of them may book it for the hills, but there is no way Tarquin would ever agree to give up his prize if he weren't forced to retreat from Xykon.

I tended to agree, but OTOH, in re-reading recent strips, Tarquin might be of a mind to fall back and regroup. When they teleported out, he was disappointed that they didn't end up back in Bleedingham.

zero

2013-03-27, 09:39 AM

Resurrection isn't on the Ranger list, and he doesn't have the Wisdom for it either. Haley probably has enough Use Magical Device to do it, though. Oh has she? First she must pass a decipher scroll check at DC 27. No biggie if she has about 15 ranks in Use Magic Device. Then comes the tricky part...

She must then simultaneously pass two checks, one for "Use Scroll" at DC 27 and other for "Emulate Ability Score" (as I don't suppose Haley has 17 wis) at...32 :smalleek: Even if she has maximized "Use Magic Device" and a fairy good Charisma (no real evidence against or for), that's a difficult one...

Sky_Schemer

2013-03-27, 03:11 PM

Well I doubt that any cleric has any qualms about your "natural order". Would you like to address the core of my point or are you content to nitpick the frequency of their use?

It's still evidence, whereas you have presented none.

Oh, I certainly don't have any evidence, I am just making an observation that, hey, just because you walk up to a cleric in a temple and ask for a Resurrection spell there's no guarantee that they will say "yes". I was presenting one possible reason why. You don't have to agree, of course, but I still believe the problem facing the order is more difficult than just finding a cleric. They have to find a cleric that will say yes. Whether having the money to pay for it is all that is needed will depend on the cleric.

In terms of where to look, Greysky City is out of the question given the manner of Haley's departure. That cleric that helped them is probably also out unless they can somehow find him now that he's skipped town. The Order does not have a long list of (known) options here.

I don't think the frequency argument is nitpicking. The ratio of commoners/average citizens to adventurers/high-level characters (NPC or otherwise) is very large. We get a skewed view in a comic that by necessity can only focus on major characters, but there is no denying that, for the vast majority of humans and humanoids, death is effectively permanent.

Bulldog Psion

2013-03-27, 03:35 PM

I seriously doubt that Durkon is ever going to be alive again. :smallfrown:

Kish

2013-03-27, 03:38 PM

I seriously doubt that Durkon is ever going to be alive again. :smallfrown:
I won't say it's impossible that he's permanently dead. However...as things stand right now, "The Order doesn't resurrect Durkon" strikes me as far less likely than "the Order does resurrect Durkon."

Bogardan_Mage

2013-03-28, 03:23 AM

Oh, I certainly don't have any evidence, I am just making an observation that, hey, just because you walk up to a cleric in a temple and ask for a Resurrection spell there's no guarantee that they will say "yes". I was presenting one possible reason why. You don't have to agree, of course, but I still believe the problem facing the order is more difficult than just finding a cleric. They have to find a cleric that will say yes. Whether having the money to pay for it is all that is needed will depend on the cleric.
Beyond "Ooh, I bet Redcloak is 17th level" I don't see that as being an issue. I don't know, maybe they find a cleric but that cleric can't speak Common? That's possible, I guess, but just because I've suggested a reason a given cleric might not be able to help them doesn't mean it's even remotely likely to actually be an issue. The cleric in a world with life-restoring magic who holds views about life and death that could only have been formulated in a world without life-restoring magic is exactly the kind of nonsensical fantasy cliche that Rich has proven himself adept at evading in the past, so with respect I don't think it illustrates your point very well.

In terms of where to look, Greysky City is out of the question given the manner of Haley's departure. That cleric that helped them is probably also out unless they can somehow find him now that he's skipped town. The Order does not have a long list of (known) options here.
I think you've taken this as a specific option when it was never meant to be more than an example of the kind of culture we've seen. Clearly they can't go back to that specific cleric and I never meant to suggest they would or would consider doing so. But that entire sequence demonstrates that such requests are not dismissed off hand, and indeed it's implied that were the other Greysky clerics not in the Thieves' Guild's pocket they'd have been more than happy to help.

I don't think the frequency argument is nitpicking. The ratio of commoners/average citizens to adventurers/high-level characters (NPC or otherwise) is very large. We get a skewed view in a comic that by necessity can only focus on major characters, but there is no denying that, for the vast majority of humans and humanoids, death is effectively permanent.
There is also no denying that the Order are not the vast majority. They are PCs in a world where people can tell the difference. Do you think these guys (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0122.html) wouldn't resurrect whomever had enough diamonds and gold?

JackRackham

2013-03-28, 11:06 PM

Vaarsuvius could eventually emulate resurrection. I think Durkon will be vamped for a while, but I could see him being put right after Kraagor's gate is dealt with, and I think Vaarsuvius is the most likely elf for the job.

On a related note, estimates of the Order's chances seem to be ignoring the fact that a high-level wizard with a full spell complement is likely to join the fray within a couple panels of the next cut-scene in his/her direction. Hell, he was presumably prepared for a lich, so his spells should even be relevent. I mean, they're still boned, but ya know.

GnomeGninjas

2013-03-29, 09:01 PM

Vaarsuvius could eventually emulate resurrection.

Why do you think this?

Kish

2013-03-29, 09:04 PM

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wish.htm

Of course, whether Rich will ever actually give either Wish or Miracle to anyone in the comic, and particularly one of the protagonists, is...questionable.

Rakoa

2013-03-29, 09:13 PM

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wish.htm

Of course, whether Rich will ever actually give either Wish or Miracle to anyone in the comic, and particularly one of the protagonists, is...questionable.

Questionable at best. I recall V having barred Conjuration as a school so that he wouldn't simply be able to Teleport out of every risky situation. In other words, there would be consequences for failures rather than just being able to pop out. Imagine if Darth V vs. Xykon had ended with "Oh, guess this isn't going to work. Poof."

For the same reason, I doubt Wish and Miracle will ever become options.

JackRackham

2013-03-30, 12:41 AM

Questionable at best. I recall V having barred Conjuration as a school so that he wouldn't simply be able to Teleport out of every risky situation. In other words, there would be consequences for failures rather than just being able to pop out. Imagine if Darth V vs. Xykon had ended with "Oh, guess this isn't going to work. Poof."

For the same reason, I doubt Wish and Miracle will ever become options.

Well, I don't think the elf will learn it while they're adventuring (frankly, I think Rich is avoiding giving V and Durkon 9ths, for good reason), but maybe after this gate business is wrapped up?

Stormlock

2013-03-30, 02:50 AM

There's the option of finding a scroll of Wish as well. V could read that rather than save it for memorizing at a later level. And such a situation would make what to wish for a very intriguing bit of story. In fact, Girard just might have such an item hanging around the gate for emergencies.

Scarlet Knight

2013-03-30, 07:43 AM

Heck, if they manage to find a scroll, couldn't Belkar presumably use it?

:vaarsuvius: He "could, if he didn't possess a wisdom score normally reserved for lemmings."

Kish

2013-03-30, 08:11 AM

Actually no. Resurrection is not on the ranger spell list; Belkar couldn't at all, even if he had a Wisdom in the 30s.

Haley probably could, with Use Magic Device. If she doesn't have enough ranks in Use Magic Device...then any cleric with a Wisdom of 17 or higher could. Or any cleric with a Wisdom of 17 or higher after Vaarsuvius cast Owl's Wisdom on him/her. So...pretty much any cleric.

Silverionmox

2013-03-30, 09:05 AM

phoamslinger

2013-03-31, 09:48 AM

yes, I think that the power of a wish is just the thing to get things right.

I don't think that Rich would give V access to a scroll, because it would end up in his spellbook too easily.

so a ring of wishes would be a good fix with a limited amount of potential plot abuse.

alternately, they are in a desert sequence. finding an efreet or a djinni in a lamp (couldn't you just see Elan with a djin lamp?) could also make a wish possible.

I did have a thought for some comedic value (if a bit of work for Rich). Roy has an 18 Int and knows the (very old school, very traditional) blowback potential for wishes. Therefore Rich drops in one of his BIG cartoon windows, with the full text of Roy's wish, with all clauses, conditions, exceptions, avoided twists, etc, in five hundred words or so.

Anyone who played an early edition with a sadistic DM would get the joke immediately.

pearl jam

2013-03-31, 10:18 AM

yes, I think that the power of a wish is just the thing to get things right.

I don't think that Rich would give V access to a scroll, because it would end up in his spellbook too easily.

so a ring of wishes would be a good fix with a limited amount of potential plot abuse.

alternately, they are in a desert sequence. finding an efreet or a djinni in a lamp (couldn't you just see Elan with a djin lamp?) could also make a wish possible.

Although these are possibilities, I think it's more likely that the Order will simply have to work for a solution that doesn't involve Wish-ing their problem away.

I did have a thought for some comedic value (if a bit of work for Rich). Roy has an 18 Int and knows the (very old school, very traditional) blowback potential for wishes. Therefore Rich drops in one of his BIG cartoon windows, with the full text of Roy's wish, with all clauses, conditions, exceptions, avoided twists, etc, in five hundred words or so.

Anyone who played an early edition with a sadistic DM would get the joke immediately.

This doesn't seem so different from the attempt to prepare a question that would force a straightforward easy to interpret answer from the Oracle that we've already seen previously.