Artificer/ Effigy Master

[Pesimismrocks]

I was recently going through complete arcana and I saw the effigy master prc. I loved the look of it and it appeared at first glance to stack well with artificer. However on further inspection it appears not. Does the prc improve infusions like a spell casting class? I would really apriciate tips and advice in a good build. The campaign is level 12 and I rolled the following stats: 7, 16, 14, 11, 12, 17

[Waker]

As it is written, it cannot be entered by artificer nor does it progress infusions. You need the simulacrum spell on your spell list, which the artificer doesn't have. You could see if your DM is willing to houserule it differently though.

[mattie_p]

As it is written, it cannot be entered by artificer nor does it progress infusions. You need the simulacrum spell on your spell list, which the artificer doesn't have. You could see if your DM is willing to houserule it differently though.

Technically, you can enter with Planar Touchstone feat (Catalogues of Enlightenment [Envy Domain]), as you can get three castings of spells from the domain. Envy domain greater power via the touchstone allows you to cast simulacrum provided you have enough wisdom (see Planar Handbook). You can also dip wizard or cleric with envy domain to get the spell on your spell list.

Then, because it advances +1 spellcaster level, you can use it to advance artificer (See Magic of Eberron, p53).

[Waker]

Technically, you can enter with Planar Touchstone feat (Catalogues of Enlightenment [Envy Domain]), as you can get three castings of spells from the domain. Envy domain greater power via the touchstone allows you to cast simulacrum provided you have enough wisdom (see Planar Handbook). You can also dip wizard or cleric with envy domain to get the spell on your spell list.

Then, because it advances +1 spellcaster level, you can use it to advance artificer (See Magic of Eberron, p53).

You are technically correct, which in TO is the best kind of correct.
To the OP, I would still suggest seeing if the DM is willing to handwave the spell requirement or say that because you can emulate the spell in item creation that you qualify. Unless you want to travel to another plane and debate theology in order to cast simulacrum.

[mattie_p]

You are technically correct, which in TO is the best kind of correct. Why yes, yes I am. I researched this exact topic for a build that never saw the light of day.


... Unless you want to travel to another plane and debate theology in order to cast simulacrum.

Why wouldn't you want to? The fact you can do so by RAW is awesome. :smallwink:

By the way, it won't advance your Craft Reserve, though. Nor do you get bonus artificer feats.

[Waker]

By the way, it won't advance your Craft Reserve, though. Nor do you get bonus artificer feats.

Fortunately you can still cannibalize other magic items to get your xp to spent though. Losing the bonus feats does hurt a bit.

[mattie_p]

Fortunately you can still cannibalize other magic items to get your xp to spent though. Losing the bonus feats does hurt a bit.

Effigy master is only 5 levels. Could easily do alternating levels in some pattern. If I recall correctly, effigy master 5's capstone is underwhelming. 2 and 4 give nothing. So a logical exit would be level 3, gaining +2 artificer in the process.
Just checked it out, yeah, Effigy Link really doesn't do much. For that matter, to build in effigy all you need is Craft Construct, which can be attained as an artificer bonus feat (and probably should be, if you want a horde). Effigy master level 3 isn't really incredible either.

[Pesimismrocks]

My DM is ok with taking the prc. Are there any ideas on feats, good effigies or magic items for example?

Is effigy master useless at 3rd and 5th levels. I was under the impression a fine effigy would make a wonderful scout. I expect then to make an artificer 11/effigy master 1.

[mattie_p]

OK, so let's do this.

A couple of things. You will want to select effigy creatures carefully, based on what they offer you. I recommend you take a look at a Druid Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868802/Druid_Handbook_revived) for wildshape forms, as adding the effigy template works a lot like alternate form (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#alternateForm), the base ability wildshape is based off of.

Hydra is almost always good.

You will want the Craft Construct feat anyway, even though you can make effigies via the 1st class level of Effigy Master. Why? Because you can repair constructs for a small expenditure of GP. Use a dedicated wright from Eberron Campaign Setting to do the work for you - put it and the effigy in a bag of holding you made to do the work while you adventure.

As an artificer, you can add infusions directly to your effigy because it is a construct. Take a look at the artificer handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2829.0) for suggestions, paying close attention to the Hordeficer section. Keep some scrolls or wands of repair light/serious damage on hand.


Effigy master isn't quite useless at levels 3 and 5. But almost. Level 3 grants a small boost to your effigies, the effigy link makes a single effigy into something like a familiar. If all you want is a scout, you can use your Craft Homunculus feature at level 4 to make an expeditious messenger for scouting (Eberron Campaign Setting). Improved effigy isn't terrible, but the Improved Homunculus feat from Magic of Eberron gives you similar benefits - and you can increase your homunculus each level.

Anyway, good luck and let us know how it turns out.

[Alienist]

Doesn't work. Artificers don't have a spell list, therefore a single class Artificer cannot ever qualify. Dipping Sorc or Wiz for one level is the only way.

[mattie_p]

Doesn't work. Artificers don't have a spell list, therefore a single class Artificer cannot ever qualify. Dipping Sorc or Wiz for one level is the only way.

Been there and done that, DM says he qualifies. Plus see above, where I told him how to qualify (you missed Envy domain).


Relating to the highlighted section - are you serious?

In addition to infusions and wands, not a bad way to go. And in addition to actually, you know, being able to make golems.

[Alienist]

Been there and done that, DM says he qualifies. Plus see above, where I told him how to qualify (you missed Envy domain).



In addition to infusions and wands, not a bad way to go. And in addition to actually, you know, being able to make golems.

Well, instead of slapping each other on the back about how technically correct you are, you should have admitted it was a houserule upfront.

Technically speaking an Artificer doesn't have a spell list. If you think that the planar envy domain trick gives you one, I invite you to post the relevant sections of the rules.

As for the second bit, I was going to refer to the fact that since you're an Artificer, who can spontaneously heal constructs, why bother spending a feat so that you can spend gold to do it instead? I thought you might not be familiar with the infusion list, but then when I saw you mentioned repair light damage I realised that the whole thing was just recursively illogical, and resolved that there was no point trying to discuss it rationally, and hence deleted that post.

[mattie_p]

Well, instead of slapping each other on the back about how technically correct you are, you should have admitted it was a houserule upfront.

Technically speaking an Artificer doesn't have a spell list. If you think that the planar envy domain trick gives you one, I invite you to post the relevant sections of the rules.

As for the second bit, I was going to refer to the fact that since you're an Artificer, who can spontaneously heal constructs, why bother spending a feat so that you can spend gold to do it instead? I thought you might not be familiar with the infusion list, but then when I saw you mentioned repair light damage I realised that the whole thing was just recursively illogical, and resolved that there was no point trying to discuss it rationally, and hence deleted that post.

Planar Handbook, p42: Planar Touchstone. You gain the base ability of that touchstone. If you visit the site, you gain the higher order ability for that location. You visit the Catalogues of Enlightenment, as described on p166, to gain the Envy domain. The higher order category is the ability to cast from that domain 1/day, 3 times, as though you had prepared the ability normally. You now have a spell list of that domain, even without sufficient wisdom to cast simulacrum. You don't even need the level, for that matter, due to the wording of Effigy Master.

Regarding repair light damage infusion, there might be other infusions that the artificer might want to put into his constructs. This is "free" repairs, not consuming his infusion slots (yes, consuming gp, but artificers can abuse WBL anyway, they basically are the class that says WBL = yes).

Look, I already said that effigy master, while cool, doesn't really help an artificer out. At least, I think I did (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14958846&postcount=7). It is decidedly suboptimal. But artificers really don't need much help, so if he wants to detour for cool flavor, who am I to stop him?

[Alienist]

Planar Handbook, p42: Planar Touchstone. You gain the base ability of that touchstone. If you visit the site, you gain the higher order ability for that location. You visit the Catalogues of Enlightenment, as described on p166, to gain the Envy domain. The higher order category is the ability to cast from that domain 1/day, 3 times, as though you had prepared the ability normally. You now have a spell list of that domain, even without sufficient wisdom to cast simulacrum. You don't even need the level, for that matter (yeah, not so well written).

Regarding repair light damage infusion, there might be other infusions that the artificer might want to put into his constructs. This is "free" repairs, not consuming his infusion slots (yes, consuming gp, but artificers can abuse WBL anyway, they basically are the class that says WBL = yes).

Look, I already said that effigy master, while cool, doesn't really help an artificer out. At least, I think I did (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14958846&postcount=7). It is decidedly suboptimal. But artificers really don't need much help, so if he wants to detour for cool flavor, who am I to stop him?

So it doesn't actually say that you get a spell list, that's just another houserule you made up for convenience?

[mattie_p]

So it doesn't actually say that you get a spell list, that's just another houserule you made up for convenience?

Spell list is not a defined game term. Therefore we have to default to the english language or standard conventions. A spell list is having the ability to cast the spell, either in the present or in the future. If having the explicit ability to cast the spell doesn't mean you have a spell list, I don't know what it means.

[Alienist]

Spell list is not a defined game term. Therefore we have to default to the english language or standard conventions. A spell list is having the ability to cast the spell, either in the present or in the future. If having the explicit ability to cast the spell doesn't mean you have a spell list, I don't know what it means.

So what you're telling me is that when you read something like this in the SRD

"A sorcerer casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list."

You have no idea what they're talking about?

Spell list is very much a well defined game term.

[mattie_p]

So what you're telling me is that when you read something like this in the SRD

"A sorcerer casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list."

You have no idea what they're talking about?

Spell list is very much a well defined game term.

A spell list which can be heavily modified via other means, such as gaining a domain, or taking Radiant Servant, or unseen seer, or... yeah. It means that once you get the ability to cast the spell, you are able to do so; by memorizing it, adding it to your spells known, via fixed list casters, or some other means (domain wizards from UA are a combination). So how does planar touchstone not meet that criteria?