Seeking druid advice

[Chronos]

So, my gaming group has decided to try a new adventure idea. We're all going to be dwarves, and I've decided I'll try a druid (probably focusing mostly on elemental spells, especially earth and fire). Problem is, I've never done either a druid nor a dwarf before, so I'd like some advice.

The game is starting at 6th level, and I'd be surprised if it goes past 8 or 10. Books are core only (note: Not SRD only, just the PHB, DMG, and MM). We'll have five or six people in the party, so we should have all the bases covered, though I'll probably be the only full divine caster. Stats are 32 point buy.

So far, about all I've decided build-wise is that I'll probably go with a dire badger as my animal companion. Oh, and of course putting my stats mostly into Wis and Con, and skills to include Listen, Spot, and Concentration, but that's just common sense.

Questions: First, are there any good wildshape options (preferably subterranean ones) I should know about at this level? Another dire badger, maybe? Or should I just stay humanoid and wade in with a shillelagh? Second, any can't-miss spells? I'll probably have to prepare a Cure Serious, in case someone needs big healing quick, and there's some decent utility in the elemental spells up to 3rd level, but is there anything that stands out? Third, what magic items are useful? We're going with standard WBL, so wild armor is still too expensive, and wilding clasps are of course non-core. Should I just stock up on things that I can use out-of-combat? CLW wands and scrolls of fix-up spells (remove curse, restoration, etc.); anything else?

Oh, and finally, any tips on the role-playing side? I've sort of got the notion that my character was lost in the dark of the mines for a couple days as a child, and had a mystical experience down there. What else can I work in with that? If it matters, the background from the DM suggests our foes will be mostly orcs (though that usually means there's some non-orc bossing them).

[eggynack]

Well, starting with the basics, you're going to want natural spell. It's basically the only feat that's strictly necessary for a druid to take. At level 6, I tend to like a riding dog as an animal companion, but at 7 I'd probably change it to a brown bear or something. Those guys are great. At level 6, your wildshape forms are going to be mostly utility, because the medium animals aren't great at combat. Find some kinda flying animal, because flight is great, and keep track of the utility options like underwater and possibly fighting if you need it.

Druids don't need much in the way of items, especially because their constant wildshape makes it difficult, but monk's belt and a periapt of wisdom are nice to have. At 3rd level, I always like stone shape, call lightning, greater magic fang, sleet storm, wind wall, and dire wolves make pretty good summons. At first, you're probably going to want entangle, obscuring mist, and whatever utility you want. I always like having faerie fire around, and maybe a cure light wounds for emergencies. I don't like much in the way of 2nd level core druid spells. Fog cloud is neat, and the stat boosting spells are nice to have, but there's not really a must have as far as I know.

You're probably going to want to avoid cure serious. Just spend some money on a wand of cure light wounds, and cure everyone out of combat. In combat healing is generally a trap, as D&D rewards being proactive. That's about it I'd say. I tend to like having the spell focus (conjuration), augment summoning line, especially because druids don't have that many core feats. I think that's about it in general. At 8th, you can start becoming some variation of brown bear, and eating face en masse, but for now I'd stay towards the back and kill folks with the stuff I mentioned. Druids are neat.

[Spuddles]

Produce flame can be shared with your animal companion. It gives him a flaming attack for CL attacks! If you stay within 5ft of the companion, you both get to use it!

Barding. It is essential for animals. This includes you if you want to go into combat, because animals have abysmal AC.

Wildshape- things with burrow speeds can take the less traveled route- under or around. Climb & fly speeds get you over. Swim speeds are cool too, but if there's water, there's probably something nasty in it.

At this level, I would dump your physical scores and pump mental. You can wander around as a baboon with 15 str and 14 dex. Play skill monkey until level 8 when you get ape morph. With shillelagh and bull str and an animal companion, your melee damage output should be comprarable to a that of a fighter. Ape morph has 21 str.

You can also be an eagle and lob produced flame at enemies. Sleet Storm is a great 3rd level spell, for battlefield control.

Entangle is a top notch spell. Anytime you are overlanding, you win.

Remember, if a prepared spell isn't going to work for you that day, you can always turn it into a summoned ally for flanking or very nice damage. Crocodile is a level 2 summons that is awesome, as are hippogriffs (if you need to have someone in your party fly).

[Chronos]

Given that we're all dwarves, and that the enemies we know of are orcs, I'm guessing we're going to be underground, in areas with stone floors, most of the time. This decreases the usefulness of some old standbys like Entangle and burrowing or flying movement.

But I never even noticed that Produce Flame was sharable, and I had forgotten all about the ape-with-a-weapon trick. Thanks!

And I know that in-combat healing is usually a bad idea, but I've still seen enough cases where a party member has just taken one bad crit and is suddenly in serious danger that it's a good idea to have one, for emergency use.

[Spuddles]

In combat healing gets a bad rap, but it's actually pretty useful.

If your party member is taking one cure spell of damage every X rounds, is currently one cure spell of damage from negatives, and your one cure spell of actions cannot accomplish what that party member can do in X rounds of actions, then you cure him.

Simple as that.

[eggynack]

I usually like just having a few copies of cure minor wounds in my 0th level slots, so I can stabilize downed allies for later healing. Cure light is about enough to push from negatives into positives a lot of the time. Also, as a druid, your actions are usually going to be worth more than your allies actions. For the cave stuff, I mentioned stone shape, but in a cave setting it gets even better. I also mentioned sleet storm, and that spell is some pretty cool beans if I do say so myself. The lack of out of core stuff is a bit sad, because heart of water is just about the greatest thing ever. At 6th, I like to just fly around and shoot dire wolves at people. It's pretty fun.

[Chronos]

I usually like just having a few copies of cure minor wounds in my 0th level slots, so I can stabilize downed allies for later healing.
Oh, I forgot to mention: We're using a houserule that cantrips are free... But the tradeoff for that is that the Cure Minor Wounds spell no longer exists, so we can't get infinite out-of-combat healing. I might be able to get the DM to allow the Stabilize spell (no HP healing at all, but auto-stabilizes) instead.

[eggynack]

Oh, I forgot to mention: We're using a houserule that cantrips are free... But the tradeoff for that is that the Cure Minor Wounds spell no longer exists, so we can't get infinite out-of-combat healing. I might be able to get the DM to allow the Stabilize spell (no HP healing at all, but auto-stabilizes) instead.
That's a pretty sad thing. It's tricky using a wand while being a bear, so it might be worthwhile to prepare a cure light wounds or two. Cure serious just seems vaguely inefficient, when you consider the other options at 3rd. the opportunity cost of losing a first level spell to cure light is a lot less than the cost of losing a 3rd level slot to cure serious.

[Chronos]

Sorry I didn't have a chance to reply to this for a couple of days, but I've just double-checked a couple of things. First, Produce Flame has "effect: flame in your palm" and "range: 0", instead of "target: self" and "range: personal", so it wouldn't actually be sharable with one's companion (it's still worth the spell slot even just for myself). Second, a Monk's Belt, while awesome, is still well outside my budget, for another couple of levels at least (the cheapest Periapt of Wisdom is still on the table, though). So, any other suggestions for magic items?

Also, does anyone have any suggestions for my other two feats? Augment Summoning looks good, except that it has a prerequisite of Spell Focus: Conjuration, and I'm not seeing many conjurations with saves on the druid spell list. Is it worth the two-feat investment? Alternately, any other good feats?

[eggynack]

There's really not much in the way of either feats or items for a druid in core. I don't think there are any conjurations that require saves on the druid list at all, though there might be one. It's just about the purest expression of a feat tax out there. Augment summoning is pretty sweet though, by my estimation. The problem with items is that if you're in wild shape then they all disappear, and if you're not in wild shape then you should probably be in wild shape. There aren't many items out there that give you that big of a benefit, especially in core. As a druid, for feats you basically have standard casting stuff. That boils down to metamagic and item crafting. Extend spell is pretty sweet at low levels, but past that just take what looks good. Life is pretty slow moving for a druid in search of items and feats in core.

[Spuddles]

Wilding clasp in anticipation of better gear?

Girallon's blessing is a 3rd level spell that gives you to extra arms, with claws, and a rend attack. Useful for being a bear with arms.

[Gavinfoxx]

At level 6, both you and your animal companion can be a Dire Bat.

Do you have any idea whatsoever how useful strategic flight is to a Core party at level 6???

See if you can pay some Expert / Commoner who has a crazy high Handle Animal score to train one of your previously released Dire Bat animal companions as a tame animal, and have more than one. That way, you should be able to ferry the entire party by air, if you have enough of them.

The Core item for 'this lets me communicate while wild shaped' is the Amulet of Thought Projection, in the cursed parts of the DMG.

Make sure to get Barding for a few of your favorite forms and your animal companion. For those that aren't proficient, make sure that the armor check penalty is 0.


Decide whether it is more important for you to get Improved Natural Attack or Augment Summoning... there aren't a lot of good Druid feats other than those at this point. Maybe Power Attack, Flyby Attack, or Multiattack. Some of those are in the Monster Manual.

[Chronos]

Girallon's Blessing and Wilding Clasps are both non-core.

Dire Bats are Large, and Large wildshape doesn't become available until level 8. And I've already decided on a Dire Badger as my companion, due to the likely-underground dwarvish setting.

The Medallion of Thought Projection has potential, though you can't silence it, and it competes in item slot with the essential Periapt of Wisdom. My current plan for communication is to speak using only the word "Ook" while in baboon form (at least three of the other players are Discworld fans, so this should work).

Barding is a given, but it's pretty cheap: I still have plenty of budget left.

And I'm not seeing much value in most of those feats, and it seems a bit iffy to me to take feats I only qualify for while wildshaped. Yeah, yeah, it's probably technically legal, but I don't want to push the envelope too far: I am, after all, playing a druid. It's not like I need to push it.

[Gavinfoxx]

Oh, right. Level 7 for some things, forgot that. Underground setting, eh? And yea, you can't turn the Medallion off... that's why the non-core versions are cheaper. You should consider at least having it available; your party can put it on and take it off when needed, eh?

[eggynack]

Core druid optimization is kinda the inverse of that whole "all you need is natural spell at 6th and you'll be fine" thing. For the most part, all you can take is natural spell to be fine. Now that you've picked an animal companion, and decided on the wildshape forms you want to use, there's really not much you can do from a character build perspective. If you have too much money after buying a periapt then you can always save up for a bigger periapt, or push that money into crafting fancy things for your party members. The reason why augment summoning is worth two feats is because in core you have very few other options, and out of core it's the pre-requisite to most of the cool summoning feats. I can't even come up with something that's worth a feat slot at 15th, after I've taken craft wondrous and extend spell. Fortunately you're a druid so it doesn't matter much. I guess there's always generically ok things like improved initiative, but by the time it actually comes up you probably won't even care what you take. You could even take something pointless and flavorful for no reason.

[Gavinfoxx]

Agreed, Craft Wondrous Item and Extend Spell are quite good in core...

Also, Wands of Cure Light Wounds for healing.

[Spuddles]

Core druid optimization is kinda the inverse of that whole "all you need is natural spell at 6th and you'll be fine" thing. For the most part, all you can take is natural spell to be fine. Now that you've picked an animal companion, and decided on the wildshape forms you want to use, there's really not much you can do from a character build perspective. If you have too much money after buying a periapt then you can always save up for a bigger periapt, or push that money into crafting fancy things for your party members. The reason why augment summoning is worth two feats is because in core you have very few other options, and out of core it's the pre-requisite to most of the cool summoning feats. I can't even come up with something that's worth a feat slot at 15th, after I've taken craft wondrous and extend spell. Fortunately you're a druid so it doesn't matter much. I guess there's always generically ok things like improved initiative, but by the time it actually comes up you probably won't even care what you take. You could even take something pointless and flavorful for no reason.

Arguably, the best "uber"charger is a druid. Dire bat companion with MWP: lance and the spirited charge feat chain. Alternatively, turn into a dire ape and ride a rhino.

But yeah, there isn't a whole lot to work with, featwise, for anyone in a core only game. I suppose spell focus: conjuration & greater: conjuration may be worth picking up if you nabbed augment summoning. Druids have some decent conjurations. Spell focus: transmutation may be worthwhile for the SoD effects.

[Urpriest]

If you're going to want to fight in wildshape, your armor is going to start falling behind. I'd recommend saving up for Wild armor, since that's one of the few ways a Core Druid can get decent AC short of barding and otherwise putting items on after you wildshape, which annoys some DMs (though if yours is cool with it it's definitely a cheaper way to go).

[Hyde]

Since it's underground, and all, you might consider reflavoring your spells (I know it's not a build, per se, but Ur-Priest has showed up, so really I got nothing to say:smallbiggrin:) Basically, anything that might be trees might manifest for you as merely big-ass mushrooms. Grass is moss and lichen. birds are bats, etc.

[eggynack]

Arguably, the best "uber"charger is a druid. Dire bat companion with MWP: lance and the spirited charge feat chain. Alternatively, turn into a dire ape and ride a rhino.

But yeah, there isn't a whole lot to work with, featwise, for anyone in a core only game. I suppose spell focus: conjuration & greater: conjuration may be worth picking up if you nabbed augment summoning. Druids have some decent conjurations. Spell focus: transmutation may be worthwhile for the SoD effects.
I dunno if greater spell focus: conjuration is the best idea in the world. I may be mistaken on this, but I'm pretty sure that despite their wealth of conjurations, druids have an utter lack of conjurations with a saving throw. Even if they have one, it's probably not worth the feat. As I noted, spell focus conjuration is effectively a pure feat tax on a druid.

edit: I did a quick read through up to fifth level spells or so and found nothing. Druids have very few saving throw requiring spells in general. I think they have a couple out of core or something, but I don't remember what they are, or if they even exist.

Double edit: It's stretching the limits of usefulness a little, but if you cast a cure spell on an undead guy, there's a will save. Also storm of vengeance, but that's at 9th. And word of recall, apparently. I think that's it for core.

[Spuddles]

I dunno if greater spell focus: conjuration is the best idea in the world. I may be mistaken on this, but I'm pretty sure that despite their wealth of conjurations, druids have an utter lack of conjurations with a saving throw. Even if they have one, it's probably not worth the feat. As I noted, spell focus conjuration is effectively a pure feat tax on a druid.

edit: I did a quick read through up to fifth level spells or so and found nothing. Druids have very few saving throw requiring spells in general. I think they have a couple out of core or something, but I don't remember what they are, or if they even exist.

Double edit: It's stretching the limits of usefulness a little, but if you cast a cure spell on an undead guy, there's a will save. Also storm of vengeance, but that's at 9th. And word of recall, apparently. I think that's it for core.

For some reason I was thinking they had more conjurations than they did. It looks like most of the stuff they have worth casting that has a save is transmutation or evocation.

[Pilo]

As they are cheap and allow you to cast more spell per day, I think you should buy some Pearl of Power.

[Krazzman]

About the Wild enchantment...

I thought it was in the Magic Item Compendium, not core... could be misremembering it though.

As for advice... I think Summon Natures Ally 3 can give you an unicorn... which could do the infighthealing...

Else: Augmentsummoned Wolf is badass. Seen just this tuesday evening. Level 1 Party with a wolf dealing 10 damage. And packing around 25 hp. Or something around that value. Remember every hit on a summoned creature is a hit that your party won and you won't need to heal.
Furthermore SNA 2 for Crocs... deadly. If you want something to be grappled: summon crocs. And I don't talk about the shoes. Depends on environment but you can justify that by having your druidcircle set in a Jungle if your DM needs such justifications. Or since you are level 6 and have seen some parts of the world knit it into your backstory.
SF:COnjuration might not work... if you are set in Faerun although you could ask for the Initiate of Malar Feat. Gives Augment Summoning for Animals only. On a more Hilarious note (that might not work for you) there is a Campaign Specific Augment Summoning in faerun, having a similar but not exactly same effect as PHB Augment Summoning and has Casterlevel 2 as Prereq if I remember it correctly.


Hope this helps.

[Chronos]

I've sent out an e-mail to the group asking about their opinions on some things. The DM hasn't yet replied, so nothing's official yet, but the respected elder of the group has, and this is the DM's first time, so he's likely to agree. Said player says that he has no problem with a baboon-shaped druid donning a periapt of wisdom or custom-made barding, but that baboons aren't naturally tool-users and probably have a different grip, so wielding a weapon is probably out. He did say that he might allow a custom feat for it, though. If that's the case, then I'd probably take that and one other, and pass on the two-feat Augment Summoning.



As for advice... I think Summon Natures Ally 3 can give you an unicorn... which could do the infighthealing...SNA 4, actually, so not quite there yet... But yeah, unicorns are definitely awesome. 5d8+20 worth of healing, Remove Poison, and a magic circle against evil, plus a half-decent combatant, all for the cost of a single 4th-level slot that's spontaneously castable. I'll take that.

Pearls of Power definitely look like a good idea, as does Craft Wondrous Item. I'll have to scan through and see which core items a druid can craft.