Good Liches in D&D / Archlich

[Nornalhorst]

I saw an entry for good liches in Monsters of Faerun, one of them I saw was the Archlich, a good lich, but I haven't seen anything else related to good liches in my other books, and the entry for the Archlich didn't include any detailed templates just a simple entry showing they exist and that they can cast animate dead at will.

So I was wondering are there any templates/other info for good liches, specifically for the Archlich?

[Psyren]

There is a good lich template in Libris Mortis (pg. 156) which is 3.5 unlike Monsters of Faerun. There is also the Baelnorn, which is a good-aligned elf lich also found in Faerun, whose source I forget.

[The Viscount]

It is also in Monsters of Faerun, right along with the archlich, if memory serves.

[hamishspence]

There is a good lich template in Libris Mortis (pg. 156) which is 3.5 unlike Monsters of Faerun. There is also the Baelnorn, which is a good-aligned elf lich also found in Faerun, whose source I forget.

The Player's Guide to Faerun web enhancement also updates Monsters of Faerun, and several other 3.0 Faerun books with monsters.

[ArcturusV]

Well there's also the "Dry Lich" from Sandstorm. It's not a "Good" lich necessarily. But it's also not necessarily an Evil Lich. Neutral characters can go through it just fine.

But that's the only other one that really comes to mind.

[RedDragons]

MoF was not updated in the way that you could use the Good Elf Lich , or the Good Archlich ,


The fact your a good creature that has to deal with all the undead issues, UPTO and including, good aligned adventures think your a bad lich. The power it gains, are not really all that broken. You gain immunity to good things turning you * plot device more then anything* and you get to walk on water.


Baelroon on the other hand, gets its psychiatry waved for free, and can project itself up to a mile away, and cast spells from the sky with no risk to itself.

[Nornalhorst]

MoF was not updated in the way that you could use the Good Elf Lich , or the Good Archlich ,


The fact your a good creature that has to deal with all the undead issues, UPTO and including, good aligned adventures think your a bad lich. The power it gains, are not really all that broken. You gain immunity to good things turning you * plot device more then anything* and you get to walk on water.


Baelroon on the other hand, gets its psychiatry waved for free, and can project itself up to a mile away, and cast spells from the sky with no risk to itself.

Arch Liches also get animate dead (strange a good character can be a necromancer?) as a spell-like ability at will. At least according to Monsters of Faerun unfortunately though I believe it is 3rd edition.

[hamishspence]

3rd ed- but, updated to 3.5 in the Player's Guide to Faerun web enhancement.

[Zerter]

I played a Good Lich once. A Cleric that had built and preserved a major temple/library dedicated to the concepts of Knowledge and Magic. A crusade came and wrecked the place. I tried to reason it out with the Paladins and the Clerics and the whatnot, but they would not listen to reason. So I gathered a bunch of evil high-ups and led a counter-crusade. My Good alignment was never in jeopardy despite leading an army of the damned to destroy an order of Paladins :smallsmile:.

[Xuldarinar]

Well, lets consider who all can become a lich.

You need to be able to make a Phylactery, which requires the following; Craft wondrous item, able to cast spells, Caster level of 11th or higher.

-Full Arcane casters
-Full Divine casters
-Certain casting PrCs, though Practiced Spellcaster (which adds +4 to caster level) may be required.
-With transparency, you could argue Psionic users can qualify.
-With how they function, you can argue an artificer qualifies.
-Due to special mechanics, mystery users (shadowcaster) can qualify using a gem of night for their phylactery.
-You can argue binders can. But the only way I could find is the following: Binding tenebrous grants access to a mystery. So, then follow the path for a shadowcaster to become a lich. Its a stretch but some DMs may accept. Then again, Acererak grants some lich abilities.
-Hexblades, Paladins, Rangers, and Spellthieves (and similarly advancing classes) can qualify technically at level 22 (Epic levels..), or at 18 if you take the practiced spell caster feat.
-Anyone who enters a class/prc that grants lichdom (Dread Necromancer, Walker of the wastes, ect.)

[137beth]

The core rules say that becoming a lich is an "unspeakably evil act." On the other hand, they don't say that you necessarily have your alignment change to evil--or that your alignment can't change after becoming a lich. So under the core rules only, it is possible to become a lich, then commit only good acts with good intentions for the next thousand years, and have your alignment change to neutral and then good:smallbiggrin:

[Steward]

I think the idea is that someone who would be willing to become a lich the "normal" way is so corrupt that they would never be willing to redeem themselves no matter what. But I think that 137ben that a lich could theoretically choose to walk the path of goodness.

The dry lich / walker in the waste is another path for such a lich. The method for becoming a dry lich does not require any explicitly evil acts and it is so well laid out (unlike the normal way which is kept deliberately mysterious) that it's certainly possible for a Neutral caster to do it without ever coming close to falling towards evil.

[Xuldarinar]

The core rules say that becoming a lich is an "unspeakably evil act." On the other hand, they don't say that you necessarily have your alignment change to evil--or that your alignment can't change after becoming a lich. So under the core rules only, it is possible to become a lich, then commit only good acts with good intentions for the next thousand years, and have your alignment change to neutral and then good:smallbiggrin:

So, in theory, without a variant. A Paladin could become a lich, but by doing so they could lose access to their abilities.

[Invader]

Generally I always found alignment restrictions foolish and usually unfounded in 3.5.

[137beth]

So, in theory, without a variant. A Paladin could become a lich, but by doing so they could lose access to their abilities.

But get them back when their alignment switches back to LG:smalltongue:

[Cirrylius]

Ah, 3.0. For a brief, shining moment between 2nd Ed. and 3.5, undeath wasn't alwaysforever awfulbad baby-punching darkety-dark-dark.

...then somebody upstairs remembered that D&D isn't allowed to have subtlety, shades of gray, or things that are unsavory but morally neutral, and it all came crashing down.

Anyway. I am fortunate enough to own Van Richten's Guide to the Lich, from 2nd Ed., and I can tell you even back then, the process that created a lich was still Evil But Undefined. The only thing that was outright stated to be even close to Evil in the lichdom process was consuming a complicated poison in which one ingredient was the heart of a sapient. And having played adventurers, every man jack of us, we know there's ways to get the heart of a sapient that aren't themselves inherently Evil, don't we:smallwink:

[137beth]

...then somebody upstairs remembered that D&D isn't allowed to have subtlety, shades of gray, or things that are unsavory but morally neutral, and it all came crashing down.
And then they published Eberron, which fixed that problem. And then they decided to abandon Eberron publications, and now necromancy is all pure evil period no exceptions again:smallfrown:

[Xuldarinar]

And then they published Eberron, which fixed that problem. And then they decided to abandon Eberron publications, and now necromancy is all pure evil period no exceptions again:smallfrown:

Except for what is contained in BoED. Necromancy with deathless is good, apparently.