E6 magic item list

[Yogibear41]

I'm looking at the magic item list for e6 that I found on both RPG net and the wikia, and it seems as though they are missing items that could still be created before level 6 for example I don't see any of the +2 to a stat item, is there a reason none of these are on this list? Am I missing something?



Thanks for your time :smallsmile:

[Grod_The_Giant]

All require caster levels of 8 to create, according to the SRD. Apart from Gauntlets of Ogre Power, for some reason, which only seem to want CL 6.

[Yogibear41]

All require caster levels of 8 to create, according to the SRD. Apart from Gauntlets of Ogre Power, for some reason, which only seem to want CL 6.

Thats the items caster level, it says nothing about that in the prereqs that level is used for things like dispelling etc. Unless I've been misunderstanding the rules the whole time. I thought thats what It might be but I looked through the DMG and PHB and never found the caster level listed under an item as a prereq


"Caster Level: The next item in a notational entry gives the
caster level of the item, indicating its relative power (just as a
spell’s caster level measures its power). The caster level determines
the item’s saving throw bonus, as well as range or other
level-dependent aspects of the powers of the item (if variable).
It also determines the level that must be contended with should
the item come under the effect of a dispel magic spell or similar
situation. This information is given in the form “CL x,” where
“CL” is an abbreviation for caster level and “x” is an ordinal
number representing the caster level itself."

from the DMG page 215

[Lonely Tylenol]

/points to signature

[avr]

The argument about whether items require the CL listed for them to create was waged in FAQ and forums, and finally was won by the side arguing that they don't; the losing side retreated to E6.

[JusticeZero]

How odd. Is there an E8 items list? I'm planning to have level 4 spells available through ritual, which would allow some of the spells requiring level 4 spells to be made. Also, on the side of allowing people to make items without requiring casterlevel as a prerequisite (the 'winning' side)

[Yogibear41]

/points to signature

+1 to you sir!

Its so long lol!

[Lonely Tylenol]

How odd. Is there an E8 items list? I'm planning to have level 4 spells available through ritual, which would allow some of the spells requiring level 4 spells to be made. Also, on the side of allowing people to make items without requiring casterlevel as a prerequisite (the 'winning' side)

My list includes items up to CL8, because it assumes that artificers exist (and an artificer can make items at its class level +2, at least for determining what it can make). These items are assumed to be at reduced availability, subject to DM approval, as they require not only a 5th or 6th level spellcaster, but also that the "spellcaster" in question be an artificer. With this in mind, my list should work perfectly for your needs (although it will not include CL9 and CL10 items for your artificers!).

For convenience, the Google docs listed in the first post lists items with a CL7 or CL8 requirement, or a fourth-level spell or equivalent class feature, highlighted in yellow. If these items are rarer in your setting, this should make them easier to sort out.


+1 to you sir!

Its so long lol!

63 pages in Microsoft Word--and I still have quite a few books to go through. :smallsmile: (I'm missing many Eberron splats, such as Secrets of Sarlona/Xen'drik, and books published at the end of 3.5's run, like Drow of the Underdark.)

[8wGremlin]

It should be noted that there are many ways of increasing your CL above 8 for the purposes of crafting magic items. And that most items do not have a caster level prerequisite.

E6 Aficionadi, fall in two camps:

They believe that the item's Caster level becomes a prerequisite.
They believe only the items that state 'requires x caster level' as a prerequisite, is a prerequisite and that the items caster level is just that


Choose which camp your in...

Saying that Lonely Tylenol's work is superb, and you can't go wrong with it.

[Yora]

The facts are pretty obvious. The prerequisites are separated by commas, the Caster Level is separated by a semicolon. That means caster level is not part of the prerequisite entry.

Also, the rules for magic items say you can set the caster level at anything you want, as long as it is high enough to cast the prerequisite spells.

And in Pathfinder, even ignoring these facts does not make the whole thing ambigous. The caster level for an item is listed at the very top of the entry, the prerequisites at the very end.

I've never seen anyone who could give a reason why CL would be a prerequisite, except for "because".

[Alienist]

The facts are pretty obvious. The prerequisites are separated by commas, the Caster Level is separated by a semicolon. That means caster level is not part of the prerequisite entry.


Completely agree. The caster level and pre-requisites are separate entries.



Also, the rules for magic items say you can set the caster level at anything you want, as long as it is high enough to cast the prerequisite spells.


Almost agree. If you had said that the rules for custom items allow you to choose the caster level like you do for scrolls and potions then I would unreservedly agree.



And in Pathfinder, even ignoring these facts does not make the whole thing ambigous. The caster level for an item is listed at the very top of the entry, the prerequisites at the very end.


I'm going to treat pathfinder as a separate thing and talk about 3.5



I've never seen anyone who could give a reason why CL would be a prerequisite, except for "because".

Three reasons:
(1) because Skip Williams said so
(2) because Skips Williams referenced page 215 of the DMG, and page 215 of the DMG clearly and unambiguously states that prerequisites are in addition to meeting the caster level requirement
(3) because there is a vast body of printed material that seems to hint at this interpretation, and is difficult to interpret otherwise.*

So RAI, RAW and Context all support the CL as a 'prerequisite' point of view.

*E.g. the Artificer:
"For purposes of meeting item prerequisites, an artificer's effective caster level equals his artificer level +2. If the item duplicates a spell effect, however, it uses the artificer's actual level as its caster level. Costs are always determined using the item's minimum caster level or the artificer's actual level (if it is higher). Thus, a 3rd-level artificer can make a scroll of fireball, since the minimum caster level for fireball is 5th. He pays the normal cost for making such a scroll with a caster level of 5th: 5 X 3 X 12.5 = 187 gp and 5 sp, plus 15 XP. But the scroll's actual caster level is only 3rd, and it produces a weak fireball that deals only 3d6 points of damage.

An artificer can also make Use Magic Device checks to emulate nonspell requirements, including alignment and race, using the normal DCs for the skill. He cannot emulate skill or feat requirements, however, including item creation feat prerequisites. He must meet the caster level prerequisite, including the minimum level to cast a spell he stores in a potion, wand, or scroll."

Emphasis added. It is difficult (but not impossible) to interpret that as written without also interpreting the caster level as being a 'prerequisite'**

**Yes, I know that caster level is not a prerequisite per se, but clearly by RAW (DMG p215) prerequisites are in addition to the requirement that the creator meet or exceed the caster level requirement.***

***It's an issue of semantics, but the requirement is clear.


---

That said, for many items there is an easy loophole, just make it as a custom item and dial the caster level to whatever you desire. Unfortunately that really only works if you're straight up duplicating a spell effect, if you're doing something like making a pearl of power, you really do have to be at least level 17 (or 15 in the case of an artificer, or 18 in the case of a sorcerer making one for 9th level spells, 17th otherwise)

Now, we could argue about whether that loophole for custom items also applies to 'off the shelf items'. I suspect that many will do so. However, that would be a different argument. I am only addressing your assertion that there is no basis for it, and there clearly is.

[8wGremlin]

Alienist, Yora I totally agree...
But some still cling to the fact that they think E6 has a hard limit on stuff(TM), it doesn't.


ION:
I believe, that in the first version, the only thing that E6 limited is the level of which the characters can progress, nothing more.

Now other versions of E6 have appeared, and some of them may put such limits in, the original doesn't.

[Yogibear41]

So i've ready that page 215 like 3 times and apparently every time I've missed the sentence where it says: "in this case the creator's caster level must be as high as the item's caster level"

Well that pretty much solves my question right there.

Very bottom of the left side of the page and very top of the right side of the page on 215 for those interested that don't want to read a wall of text to find it.

[Alienist]

But wait! The errata for the DMG says:

Caster Level
Dungeon Master’s Guide, page 215
Problem: The last two sentences in the section on Caster Level are ambiguous and potentially misleading.
Solution: Replace with this text: For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.

----

Hilariously, we now get the text in the SRD:

"For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator."

So for potions, scrolls and wands the creator sets the caster level, and for everything else the creator sets the caster level.

Lolburgers. 'ambiguous and potentially misleading'? Surely not.

In any case, the clause explicitly tacking on prerequisites as additional requirements after caster level seems to have vanished into the ether, thus vastly increasing the ambiguity and potential for people to be misled.

----

The rest of the game system (what I referred to as context) seems to have been written with the pre-errata wording firmly in mind. Due to the mystical whimsy of the casual treatment of dates in the US, it isn't clear to me whether the Eberron Campaign Setting stuff which I quoted was written pre or post errata. I think it was published after the errata, but was probably written before the errata was released. (They both date to 2004)

----

So those firmly in the 'thou shalt have no other prerequisites besides those in the semicolons' camp can rest easy.

As for Yora's question about why some people think one way and another group doesn't: it was most likely based on wording that has subsequently disappeared from the DMG for reasons of clarity. Sadly (and ironically) the wording which was removed was quite unambiguous, whereas the wording which replaced it leaves some pretty important things unspecified.

**face palm**

----

For what it's worth, Pathfinder doesn't appear to have the troublesome wording either.

[Greenish]

63 pages in Microsoft Word--and I still have quite a few books to go through. :smallsmile: (I'm missing many Eberron splats, such as Secrets of Sarlona/Xen'drik, and books published at the end of 3.5's run, like Drow of the Underdark.)DotU has some great stuff, like Ring of Anticipation, Shadow Cloak, and Trackless Boots (all of which should be doable).

[Lonely Tylenol]

DotU has some great stuff, like Ring of Anticipation, Shadow Cloak, and Trackless Boots (all of which should be doable).

Yeah, I know; I just haven't had both the ready book access and the time/energy required to do this all at once. I figure the first step is finding out all of the books worth mentioning that I'm missing, and then work from there. (For example, I don't think I included a lot of early 3.0 material, such as Tome and Blood and Sword and Fist, because... Well, most of that stuff I assume was reprinted and I wanted to avoid duplicates. I did, however, include some LATER 3.0 material, such as the Book of Vile Darkness and Savage Species, so I need to split up which books I did use and which I didn't.) I don't know which of the books I don't have already listed include magic items, and/or are not adventure paths (though I suppose some adventure paths have magic items?)... It just gets more and more confusing from there. :smalleek:

I guess if I could get help figuring out which books I'm missing, I could do the busy work from there, but my book knowledge is not complete...

Anyway, I dare not wade into that conversation above. I don't want to get controversial about this. If you ascribe to the notion that, in E6, magic items have a prerequisite of their caster level, then my list is a valuable resource (if not a complete one). If you do not, then my list is still a valuable resource in lower-level play, since it contains a large subset of items still worth mentioning, and you can sort by price--it's just less so, because it does not contain the full spectrum of items available to you.