[3.5 E6] Stone to Flesh

[Mr Tumnus]

So our party is faced with a problem. Due to a careless Wizard's irresponsible disposal of the magical equivalent of nuclear waste an entire town has been turned to stone. In the E6 Homebrew Feats there is a way to turn people back from stone.


Stone to Flesh [General]
You learn to turn stone back into flesh.
Prerequisites: 6th level, ability to cast 3rd-level arcane spells, Intelligence 18, Craft (Alchemy) 9 Ranks
Benefit: You can use stone to flesh, as the spell, with an expensive and secret magical ingredient with a market value of 1000 gp and a casting time of 1 day. This is a spell-like ability that is usable once per week.

Obviously it has some severe drawbacks but right now it's the only thing we've got. We have a way to solve the gold problem but I was wondering if there wasn't an easier solution. Lesser planar ally works but only if ritually cast with a number of other spellcasters, I was wondering if anyone knew off the top of their heads of any niche monsters that had either break enchantment or stone to flesh (or abilities that could duplicate this) as spell like abilities.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Break Enchantment won't work:


If the spell is one that cannot be dispelled by dispel magic, break enchantment works only if that spell is 5th level or lower.

Focus on Stone to Flesh.

[Juntao112]

Before you rescue them, loot the town of everything that isn't nailed down and on fire, then blame it on the wizard when they are demedusafied.

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, looks like a good place for ritual magic.

Trip to the local magic library (bandit fight along the way!) Do some research!

Now to go get supplies.

Lets say...

Hand of a stone golem
Eye of a Gorgon
Wings of a Gargoyle

Plus lots of gems and quite a bit of time.

Well, better get adventuring.

Ooooooooor go find a Very old gold dragon or some such creature with native 6th level spells. Beg for help and run whatever fetch quest it requires for crafting you a bunch of scrolls of stone to flesh.

Do find a way of boosting fort saves before using the spell though. It would be a pain to go through the hassle of getting a stone to flesh for the town mayor only to have him keel over after failing the fort save.

[Crake]

Break Enchantment won't work:



Focus on Stone to Flesh.

considering that flesh to stone is explicitly stated as something break enchantment can get rid of, I'd say its safe to assume that it works against instantaneous spells of any level, only those that explicitly state that they arent reversible by dispel magic wouldnt work above 5th level, which no instantaneous spell would, because they're invalid targets for dispel magic.

[TuggyNE]

considering that flesh to stone is explicitly stated as something break enchantment can get rid of

Hmm, where is that stated again?

[Darrin]

Hmm, where is that stated again?

PHB p. 207:

"Break enchantment can reverse even an instantaneous effect, such as flesh to stone."

For some reason, this line was dropped from the SRD version.

[Lonely Tylenol]

PHB p. 207:

"Break enchantment can reverse even an instantaneous effect, such as flesh to stone."

For some reason, this line was dropped from the SRD version.

For some reason. :smallamused:

EDIT: OK, I guess I'll turn cheeky bastard mode off and try to be helpful.

I'm the DM of this particular game. I'm aware of the wording in the PHB version (the OP actually brought it to my attention independent of this thread; I was using the SRD pretty much exclusively for my convenience). I see Flesh to Stone as being mentioned as an example of an instantaneous transmutation. I also see it as a bad example. It is, to me, no different from the Abjurant Champion's Abjurant Armor ability singling out Mage Armor, a conjuration spell. (Complete Mage, p. 50)

TL;DR D&D 3.5 is poorly worded and often self-contradictory, surprising no-one.

I'm open to changing my ruling on that if Crake's logic (that only spells that explicitly mention that they are resistant to Dispel Magic are ruled out, and not simply spells that cannot be dispelled) is correct, because the word is RAW and all that, but this is my understanding going into this, so until that happens, it is probably best to suggest easy routes for Stone to Flesh as the preferred option.

[Jack_Simth]

Hmm, where is that stated again?
In the summery line of the spell. Nowhere else.

[Slipperychicken]

Before you rescue them, loot the town of everything that isn't nailed down and on fire, then blame it on the wizard when they are demedusafied.

Take it as payment. Also, bring your crowbars and waterskins, so you can take every item in the village. Basically, be the Grinch.

See if they had any magic item shops to loot.

[Darrin]

TL;DR D&D 3.5 is poorly worded and often self-contradictory, surprising no-one.

I'm open to changing my ruling on that if Crake's logic (that only spells that explicitly mention that they are resistant to Dispel Magic are ruled out, and not simply spells that cannot be dispelled) is correct, because the word is RAW and all that, but this is my understanding going into this, so until that happens, it is probably best to suggest easy routes for Stone to Flesh as the preferred option.

Ok, I looked up the original 3.0 wording of break enchantment, to see if there's some reason the designers were trying to remove that feature from the spell:

"This dispelling spell frees creatures from enchantments, transmutations, curses, and petrification (as well as other magical transformations). Break enchantment can reverse even an instantaneous effect, such as flesh to stone."

So in 3.0, petrification is explicitly called out twice. In 3.5, only once. In the SRD, none. I... have no idea what this means, from the standpoint of designer intent. I can't tell if they were trying to remove this feature, or just trying to clean up the text and make it shorter.

From the standpoint of finding an easier route to cast stone to flesh... it doesn't exist, near as I can tell. My last campaign, to a certain degree, was based entirely on another quirk of that spell. The Good Guys the PCs were working for had figured out how to hide the Super-Powerful Artifact/MacGuffin from the Bad Guys (who had access to 9th-level divination spells) by exploiting the "not dead/not alive" aspect of petrification (discern location can't find a creature if it's neither alive/dead). So basically the entire metaplot of my campaign was based around the quirks of this spell. For that reason, I searched the entire 3.x canon for anything that could reverse or dispel it. More specifically, I was looking for stone to flesh or break enchantment as a SLA on some creature that could be summoned/called. But there aren't any low/mid-level creatures with such an SLA. The closest you get is an efreet/noble djinn's wish ability, at which point, well, Pun-Pun.

I would argue that you keep the anti-petrification feature of break enchantment because petrification is one of the oldest schticks in epic fantasy (see Perseus v. Kraken, circa 3000ish B.C.). With cockatrices, gorgons, medusae, and basilisks running around, PCs frequently run into petrification well before they have access to 6th level spells. Break enchantment as a "fey magic" counter fits the theme: PC got himself petrified, how do you counter it? Go find a fey creature and beg/plead/borrow whatever you can to get the "enchantment" broken, frog turned back to a prince, etc. Having a somewhat level-appropriate counter for it should be in the game, if not from a thematical standpoint, then at least for the sake of game balance. Break enchantment as a 5th level spell is a much better counter than stone to flesh as a 6th level spell.

(Meaningless tangent: The same issue drives me nuts with neutralize poison as a 3rd level spell. Poison at low levels is incredibly deadly, so the counter for it should be available as a 2nd level spell, not 3rd. While you're at it, knock delay poison down to 1st where it belongs.)

From an E6 standpoint... lesser planar ally/binding, if you can manage it in E6, may be the only way to go, but the only way that works is by getting early access to wishes, which, if not handled very delicately, could lead to a lot more problems than an entire town turned to stone.

[Fouredged Sword]

Neutralizing poison is available as a 2nd level cleric spell. Guidance of the Avatar allows for a heal check of 30+wis, and that can be used in place of the fortitude save to resist the poison's secondary effects.

Also useful for disease.

[Darrin]

Neutralizing poison is available as a 2nd level cleric spell. Guidance of the Avatar allows for a heal check of 30+wis, and that can be used in place of the fortitude save to resist the poison's secondary effects.

I love that spell. But whenever I suggest using it in an actual game, the DM sees that "+20" modifier and threatens to throw a hissy-fit.

I think I found something that can cast flesh to stone, but you're going to need to find a Shaman (OA) or Wu Jen (OA/CArc) to cast that ritual. You need to cast lesser spirit ally or lesser spirit binding from Oriental Adventures. This allows you to call or bind an 8HD Large Nature Spirit (OA pp. 177-178). As part of its SLAs: "A Large nature spirit can also use any wu jen spell associated with the element most closely related to the nature spirit’s essence. Thus, a mountain spirit can use any earth spell, while an island spirit can use any water spell. A Large nature spirit can use any given spell once per day." Stone to flesh is a 6th level [Earth] spell for Wu Jens.

If you use lesser spirit ally, then you'll have to work out some form of payment or service/favor in return. That gets you at least one stone to flesh per day... not sure if you can ask the same nature spirit to wait X-many days to depetrify the village, or just call it over and over again every day. However, if you allow the nature spirit access to greater spirit binding as an [Earth] spell, then they might be able to call multiple large nature spirits for more SLAs per day. Likewise, if you are able to add the undermaster spell as an [Earth] spell to the Wu Jen list, then that would allow a large nature spirit to cast flesh to stone every round for 5 rounds.

If you use lesser spirit binding, then the cost will be considerably cheaper, but you'll have to work out the whole magic circle thing and make sure the nature spirit can't break free. Afterward, you may have one large nature spirit extremely angry at you that might be able to bind 24HD of [earth] creatures to make your life more interesting.

Another method involves getting your hands on a Formian Taskmaster (same type of ritual, more or less) and a Mirror Mephit (summonable via a 2nd level spell from Expedition to the Demonweb Pits). But that treads awfully close to chain-gating solars and wish abuse.

[karkus]

With the amount of loot that a city has, you're bound to find a magic item or five of Stone to Flesh, be it a staff or an unlimited-usage wondrous item.

Don't waste feats, time, and most importantly, money on this little side-quest.

[TuggyNE]

In the summery line of the spell. Nowhere else.

Ouch. And since the detailed spell text overrides short summaries … :smalleek:

[Lonely Tylenol]

Take it as payment. Also, bring your crowbars and waterskins, so you can take every item in the village. Basically, be the Grinch.

See if they had any magic item shops to loot.


With the amount of loot that a city has, you're bound to find a magic item or five of Stone to Flesh, be it a staff or an unlimited-usage wondrous item.

Don't waste feats, time, and most importantly, money on this little side-quest.

Uh... Hi. DM of the game, here. You guys act like I, much less anybody else at the table, hasn't thought of this yet.

The town is not a large city with all the trimmings; if it was, it would simply be too cost-prohibitive to even consider bringing everyone back (as the wealth of entire nations wouldn't be enough to manage it). It had a couple minor magical items, a few pieces of fine artwork, and some high-quality furniture, but the town looked well and ransacked long before the PCs arrived (the PCs kind of... Tabled this order of business for a few months). The place was too small to really bother with any sort of magic item shop, and the only spellcaster worth mentioning is precisely the person who caused these problems... And they already ransacked his place of residence and destroyed his laboratory. We're well and past that.

If there as a magic item or five of Stone to Flesh in a small town (in an E6 campaign?), for some reason, or an unlimited use item of "Solve the Problem" in the middle of "the Problem", I imagine there wouldn't have been a problem--somebody else would have picked up the "Solve the Problem" item and solved "the Problem" (even the problem-causer, if for no better reason than to avoid suspicion).

The group had a lead on somebody else who could do it, but they sort of... Burned that bridge... Using the blood of her tribesmen as fuel... So they're looking for alternatives.

Speaking of... Darrin, I'll look into that suggestion. Thanks. Shamans and Wu Jen are a relative rarity in the game, but they do exist--I just have to familiarize myself with how the spirits work, because I don't know exactly how they work, but as a principle, using low-level spell slots in order to do things exclusive to higher-level spell slots seems sort of... Unbalancing to me. (You know--like Planar Binding into Wish.) I guess it's just something I have to check out to make sure that everything is on the level without it being the go-to solution for a bunch of high-level spells I obviously never intended to exist in the world anyway.