3.5 - Help me with my badger dream!

[gurgleflep]

Hello everybody! I've been lurking around this site for some time now and have seen numerous people mentioning stuff like Bearington Bearman the Barbearian, bears with class levels and the like. All of this has inspired me to try to do something along the lines of this, but with an animal I truly find amazing... THE BADGER!!

http://bioweb.uwlax.edu/bio203/s2007/steinmey_isaa/badger-badger.org.jpg

Here's where my problem lies though. Would this even be possible? How well would this work? I've not seen any badger related lycanthropes or wildshapes, playable badger races, or badger modified classes.

Thank you all in advance! I look forward to seeing what everybody's got in mind. Please use puns. I like them.

[avr]

Summon Monster I gets you celestial badgers, Summon Monster III celestial dire badgers, Summon Nature's Ally II normal dire badgers. So most spellcasters can shoot badgers at their enemies if they really want. Obviously druids can wildshape into them if desired.

It'd be easy enough to stat up a werebadger if you wanted. 1 animal HD, 2-3 LA depending on natural or afflicted lycanthrope.

[gurgleflep]

Summon Monster I gets you celestial badgers, Summon Monster III celestial dire badgers, Summon Nature's Ally II normal dire badgers. So most spellcasters can shoot badgers at their enemies if they really want. Obviously druids can wildshape into them if desired.

It'd be easy enough to stat up a werebadger if you wanted. 1 animal HD, 2-3 LA depending on natural or afflicted lycanthrope.

Spells are a new area to me, so this is going to be an interesting playthrough for me. Are Druids able to use summon monster?
I've already began stating the werebadger :smallsmile:
Between natural and afflicted, which would have the lower LA?

[avr]

Afflicted gets +2 LA by the rules, Natural +3 LA. The difference is in the DR (5/silver vs 10/silver) and the need for afflicted lycanthropes to make rolls to control their lycanthropy. Rules near the bottom of this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lycanthrope.htm) page. It doesn't give ability mods for badger form but they'd be -2 STR, +6 DEX, +4 CON if they follow the same pattern as the others.

IMO the LA's a bit harsh. The benefits of natural lycanthropy for +2 LA seems more fair considering how bad animal HD are.

Druids get summon nature's ally but not summon monster. Clerics, bards & sorcs/wizards get summon monster.

[Juntao112]

You sure know how to badger us with questions...

[gurgleflep]

You sure know how to badger us with questions...

I do ask a lot of questions, but it helps me out quite a bit. Woo, a pun!

[Juntao112]

To begin, we must ask ourselves: What is a badger?

Well, in D&D, it's a small furry woodland creature with one defining attribute: it gets really angry. Any Badger themed build should likewise be able to get really angry.

So I suggest you start with Barbarian.

From here on, you must seek to become one with the essence of the badger. This can best be achieved with the Animal Lord (http://dndtools.eu/classes/animal-lord/) prestige class. The Badger Lord does not exist, but I'm sure you could talk with your DM to adapt it, or rename one of the existing options. (Maybe Bear Lord?)

[Cranthis]

To begin, we must ask ourselves: What is a badger?

Well, in D&D, it's a small furry woodland creature with one defining attribute: it gets really angry. Any Badger themed build should likewise be able to get really angry.

So I suggest you start with Barbarian.

Next, we must consider how a Badger fights. It fights with its claws. Thus, you should probably go into a class that either gives you claws, or the ability to fight unarmed. I suggest Fist of the Forest, as it grants you good unarmed damage and Scent, which a badger also has.

From here on, you must seek to become one with the essence of the badger. This can best be achieved with the Animal Lord (http://dndtools.eu/classes/animal-lord/) prestige class. The Badger Lord does not exist, but I'm sure you could talk with your DM to adapt it, or rename one of the existing options. (Maybe Bear lord?)

One take on this would be to use Warlock, and use most of your invocations to give you the sense and abilities of said mystical badger. Also the Eldritch claws feat.

[ArcturusV]

Well, you have the Hengeyokai, which have a Badger subset. So there you got race nailed down. Badger Hengeyokai. So you don't need a "Were" template as you already have a Hybrid Form, and can turn into a full badger for badgering all the time.

Go with the Druid Class for Badger Summoning, and Badger Wildshaping into Dire Badgers. Then you tack on the Shapeshifter prestige class for even more frequent shapeshifting for extra badgering.

[Diovid]

Option 1: Gnome Barbarian 5 / Beastmaster 1 / Badger Lord 10 / something 4 with the Natural Bond and Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) feats.

Option 2: Gnome Druidic Avenger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger) with the Wild Cohort feat.

[Baroncognito]

Okay, a search for badger lord comes up with a lot of Redwall series hits, but not any D&D links.

[Diovid]

Okay, a search for badger lord comes up with a lot of Redwall series hits, but not any D&D links.
As Juntao112 said, it's an Animal Lord (the prc from Complete Adventurer) with badger as it's totem.

[gorfnab]

Anthropomorphic Dire Badger Bard/ Marshal
http://www.greene.k12.ia.us/wpdevelopment/spring2010/kball/finalproject/buckypic.jpg

[Mephibosheth]

Anthropomorphic Dire Badger Bard/ Marshal

*snip*

If you wanna be a badger, just come along with me
By the bright shiny light, by the light of the moon
If you wanna be a badger, just come along with me
By the bright shiny light of the moon!
Evidence that Bucky is actually a were-badger.

This is the first thing I thought of when I saw this topic. Now I want to make a bunch of Bucky Badger-themed homebrew!

[gurgleflep]

To begin, we must ask ourselves: What is a badger?

Well, in D&D, it's a small furry woodland creature with one defining attribute: it gets really angry. Any Badger themed build should likewise be able to get really angry.

So I suggest you start with Barbarian.

From here on, you must seek to become one with the essence of the badger. This can best be achieved with the Animal Lord (http://dndtools.eu/classes/animal-lord/) prestige class. The Badger Lord does not exist, but I'm sure you could talk with your DM to adapt it, or rename one of the existing options. (Maybe Bear Lord?)

Barbarian and Badger Lord sound easy enough, I've made a Cephalapod Lord before (Squid, octopus, kraken... funny stuff!). The DM gave me a mobile fish-tank.


One take on this would be to use Warlock, and use most of your invocations to give you the sense and abilities of said mystical badger. Also the Eldritch claws feat.

What book can I find the Eldritch feats in? I hear so much mention of them, but never took it upon myself to look them up.


Well, you have the Hengeyokai, which have a Badger subset. So there you got race nailed down. Badger Hengeyokai. So you don't need a "Were" template as you already have a Hybrid Form, and can turn into a full badger for badgering all the time.

Go with the Druid Class for Badger Summoning, and Badger Wildshaping into Dire Badgers. Then you tack on the Shapeshifter prestige class for even more frequent shapeshifting for extra badgering.

With a name like that, I'd guess it's in the Oriental Adventures book. Am I right?


Option 1: Gnome Barbarian 5 / Beastmaster 1 / Badger Lord 10 / something 4 with the Natural Bond and Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) feats.

Option 2: Gnome Druidic Avenger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger) with the Wild Cohort feat.

Thank you for linking to these and giving ideas. :smallsmile:


If you wanna be a badger, just come along with me
By the bright shiny light, by the light of the moon
If you wanna be a badger, just come along with me
By the bright shiny light of the moon!
Evidence that Bucky is actually a were-badger.

This is the first thing I thought of when I saw this topic. Now I want to make a bunch of Bucky Badger-themed homebrew!

Ah-ha! Now I've got a badger theme song! :smallbiggrin:

Thank you all so much! :smallbiggrin:

[ArcturusV]

Yeah, Hengeyokai was in Oriental Adventures. I heard it got Errata'd for 3.5 edition in a Dragon Mag. The only detail I've heard about the errata is that they removed the LA from it, so it's LA 0. Bonus points.

Shapeshifter is also from Oriental Adventures. It's not great. But hey, one off dip level gives you +3 Wildshapes per day, which is nice.

[WhatBigTeeth]

Shapeshifter is also from Oriental Adventures. It's not great. But hey, one off dip level gives you +3 Wildshapes per day, which is nice.
Plus for Hengeyokai non-Druids, one level gives Dire Badger wild shape, for all that tunneling goodness.

The Mole Handbook might also apply. (Ugly archived version of the complete thread here (http://web.archive.org/web/20080117020004/http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=961599))

[gurgleflep]

Yeah, Hengeyokai was in Oriental Adventures. I heard it got Errata'd for 3.5 edition in a Dragon Mag. The only detail I've heard about the errata is that they removed the LA from it, so it's LA 0. Bonus points.

Shapeshifter is also from Oriental Adventures. It's not great. But hey, one off dip level gives you +3 Wildshapes per day, which is nice.

No level adjustment is great, I can get class levels sooner :smallsmile:
Have they got a burrow speed?


Plus for Hengeyokai non-Druids, one level gives Dire Badger wild shape, for all that tunneling goodness.

The Mole Handbook might also apply. (Ugly archived version of the complete thread here (http://web.archive.org/web/20080117020004/http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=961599))

Tunneling would be awesome, I could - in theory - burrow into the middle of an enemy encampment, pop up and badger them with badgers!
Thank you for the link, I'll check it out now :smallsmile:

[ArcturusV]

10' burrow.

[gurgleflep]

10' burrow.

This is great. What check would people use against something burrowing to see if they notice it?

[ArcturusV]

Probably a Listen check with modifiers for X amount of material between sound and listener.

[gurgleflep]

Probably a Listen check with modifiers for X amount of material between sound and listener.

Sounds simple enough. Pun intended. :smallsmile:

[ArcturusV]

Also: Anything with Tremorsense would logically detect you, I'd think.

[gurgleflep]

Also: Anything with Tremorsense would logically detect you, I'd think.

Makes sense. Umberhulks have that, don't they? Edit: Just realized I punned.

[Paintomancer]

Play an Awakened badger maybe? I don't see why Awakened animals shouldn't get class levels.

You won't get that much Int and Cha, but if you want to play a Badger Barbarian, that shouldn't hurt that much.

[Phelix-Mu]

Has no one yet suggested wildren from Planar Handbook? They seem to have lots of the traits being mentioned here, and some great stats for a barbarian. I skimmed the posts pretty quickly, so apologies if I'm rehashing old suggestions, but this race seems perfect, only +1 LA (not that attractive, but hella better than lycanthrope template). Also some nifty dwarf traits, as per the flavor.

[gurgleflep]

Play an Awakened badger maybe? I don't see why Awakened animals shouldn't get class levels.

You won't get that much Int and Cha, but if you want to play a Badger Barbarian, that shouldn't hurt that much.

How do Awakened animals work? Is it a template or something?


Has no one yet suggested wildren from Planar Handbook? They seem to have lots of the traits being mentioned here, and some great stats for a barbarian. I skimmed the posts pretty quickly, so apologies if I'm rehashing old suggestions, but this race seems perfect, only +1 LA (not that attractive, but hella better than lycanthrope template). Also some nifty dwarf traits, as per the flavor.

Nobody has mentioned the Wildren as of yet, so thank you for bringing it up. It's an outsider IIRC, keeping it from being affected by certain spells and spell-like abilities. Planar Handbook, right?

[Phelix-Mu]

Yes, they are found in the Planar Handbook, a nice supplement (even though I have a personal soft spot for the 3.0 Manual of the Planes).

Yes, they are outsiders. However, note: they don't have the native subtype when on the Prime Material Plane (they are native to the Beastlands), and so are subject to some spells that affect extraplanar critters (dismissal, banishment are the two that come immediately to mind).

Not a huge issue, especially when weighed against immunity to hold person, charm person, dominate person, and other stuff that is often a threat to offensive, low-Will save types. Having dimensional anchor cast on yourself before major fights with spellcasters might be wise (as I've been told this blocks dismissal effects), though this is obviously a double-edged sword.

[ArcturusV]

It's an acquired template granted by a spell (similar to how Mineral Warrior works in that way). A druid casts it on an animal or plant. You get to roll dice for Int, Wis, Cha... I think 2d6? It wasn't much. Plants that weren't mobile become mobile.

It's an odd spell that gets used for kinda silly purposes, or for the random "I want my own personal Ent Army" thing.

[gurgleflep]

Yes, they are found in the Planar Handbook, a nice supplement (even though I have a personal soft spot for the 3.0 Manual of the Planes).

Yes, they are outsiders. However, note: they don't have the native subtype when on the Prime Material Plane (they are native to the Beastlands), and so are subject to some spells that affect extraplanar critters (dismissal, banishment are the two that come immediately to mind).

Not a huge issue, especially when weighed against immunity to hold person, charm person, dominate person, and other stuff that is often a threat to offensive, low-Will save types. Having dimensional anchor cast on yourself before major fights with spellcasters might be wise (as I've been told this blocks dismissal effects), though this is obviously a double-edged sword.

Are Wildren located in Manual of the Planes as well? Their immunities come in handy - especially considering the DM likes using magic quite a bit - so thank you for bringing that up, I'd forgotten about them. How would that be a double-edged sword, though?

[hamishspence]

How would that be a double-edged sword, though?
It means with Dimensional Anchor up, you can't escape if you need to, I guess.

[Yogibear41]

I've seen people say that playing a dire badger lycanthrope that has been advanced to 4 hit die is the best thing you can do badger wise. Normaly a dire badger is 3 hit die, but you go by the MM rules for advancement adding 1 hit die makes it large in size so a 4 hit die dire-were badger would be large sized in animal and hybrid form.


Also a few weeks ago at a DnD session one of my fellow players infromed me that honey badgers sneak into cheetah dens and steal the cheetah babies and eat them. Thought you might like to know this.

[Phelix-Mu]

It's an acquired template granted by a spell (similar to how Mineral Warrior works in that way). A druid casts it on an animal or plant. You get to roll dice for Int, Wis, Cha... I think 2d6? It wasn't much. Plants that weren't mobile become mobile.

It's an odd spell that gets used for kinda silly purposes, or for the random "I want my own personal Ent Army" thing.

It's actually a very poorly defined spell with immensely open-ended effects; thus it has all the hallmarks of something that just begs exploitation.

There is no actual template, to the best of my knowledge. It's just a type change. Animals become magical beasts with better mental stats, plants become plant creatures with stats as animated objects.

The abusable part, IMHO, is the plants, and the Will save = HD of awakened creature. Thus, find some colossal plants (tree tokens), pump your Will save in sync with the end of the casting time, and boom, a very big ally is born. The druid has to role play to maintain the friendship, but the creature starts out friendly, so is a very useful soldier as long as you don't toss it at the great red wyrm.

The real sadness is that it has been demonstrated that you can metamagic awaken, as in maximize and empower it, tweaking the rolls for the resulting creature's stats. As a DM, I pretty much cried when I read about this, since it moves the spell (one of my favorites) much closer to the top of the "To Ban" pile.

So off-topic, though.

Awakened animals are usually not great, though. Animal HD are terrible HD for a melee type, and damage and such is fairly mediocre.

[Phelix-Mu]

I've seen people say that playing a dire badger lycanthrope that has been advanced to 4 hit die is the best thing you can do badger wise. Normaly a dire badger is 3 hit die, but you go by the MM rules for advancement adding 1 hit die makes it large in size so a 4 hit die dire-were badger would be large sized in animal and hybrid form.


Also a few weeks ago at a DnD session one of my fellow players infromed me that honey badgers sneak into cheetah dens and steal the cheetah babies and eat them. Thought you might like to know this.

Nice honey badger fact. The truth though, is that cheetah babies are rather helpless, and rely mostly on being hidden in the den while the mother is away, from what I recall. Even an adult cheetah isn't that badass, being fairly lightweight and having a very specialized hunting style.

The trick with advancing the dire badger's size category is beyond the scope of normal templating, as normally only DMs can introduce creatures advanced by HD as per the MM entries.

[gurgleflep]

It means with Dimensional Anchor up, you can't escape if you need to, I guess.

And you wouldn't go with your group if they teleported out.


I've seen people say that playing a dire badger lycanthrope that has been advanced to 4 hit die is the best thing you can do badger wise. Normaly a dire badger is 3 hit die, but you go by the MM rules for advancement adding 1 hit die makes it large in size so a 4 hit die dire-were badger would be large sized in animal and hybrid form.


Also a few weeks ago at a DnD session one of my fellow players infromed me that honey badgers sneak into cheetah dens and steal the cheetah babies and eat them. Thought you might like to know this.

Just increasing the HD by one raises your size? That doesn't seem right.


Awakened animals are usually not great, though. Animal HD are terrible HD for a melee type, and damage and such is fairly mediocre.

Would it's HD be terrible even after adding on the class stuff?

[Phelix-Mu]

If you are going barbarian, it's not that great. 3/4 BAB, d8, low skill points for existing HD before Int increase. But, on the other hand, barbarian's strengths make up for some of this. Losing BAB for a melee class isn't like losing caster levels for a caster, as there are myriad ways to boost combat damage. But you don't want to loose more that 4 BAB so you can still gain four attacks by 20th, but I don't see this happening.

The other downside is non-humanoid form, meaning a lot of found treasure will be useless; can't drink potions, can't hold or probably activate items with manipulation activation, may not be able to hold most things (no thumbs). Magic can fix like 90% of these problems, but it will soak up some wealth to do so.

I'd go with wildren and ask the DM about LA-buyoff, personally.

[Yogibear41]

Just increasing the HD by one raises your size? That doesn't seem right.


Well it is a Dire Badger with 3 hit die to begin with where a regular badger only has 1 hit die, so if you think of it in a way its really like going from 1 hit die to 4 for a size increase.

[Phelix-Mu]

Well it is a Dire Badger with 3 hit die to begin with where a regular badger only has 1 hit die, so if you think of it in a way its really like going from 1 hit die to 4 for a size increase.

Player's can't edit monsters in this fashion, though. If the DM permits it, of course, it's kosher (happy passover!), but a size increase is usually good for some kind of level adjustment...though I guess that would be hard to do because of the funky template.

[gurgleflep]

I'd go with wildren and ask the DM about LA-buyoff, personally.

Wildren's probably what I'll go with. Well, that or the Oriental Adventures creature that has a badger subset.
Where would I find these buyoffs though? I've looked them up before but couldn't find any specific book.

[Mephibosheth]

Reducing level adjustments (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) or, in common parlance, LA buyoff. Basically, at a certain level, you can pay an amount of experience to get rid of all or some of the level adjustment of your race.

[gurgleflep]

Reducing level adjustments (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) or, in common parlance, LA buyoff. Basically, at a certain level, you can pay an amount of experience to get rid of all or some of the level adjustment of your race.

Thank you for linking to this. When you use a buyoff though, do you gain a class level?

[Paintomancer]

How do Awakened animals work? Is it a template or something?


Awaken is a 5th level druid spell that grants an animal quasi-human sentience. The animal physically stays the same, but learns to talk in one language, rolls new Int like a new character would, keeps Wis and gets a bonus to Cha. It's in the PHB.

RP bonus: An Awakened animal automatically befriends the druid that awakened it, I think. Your character could have a mentor and an uncommon backstory.

[gurgleflep]

Awaken is a 5th level druid spell that grants an animal quasi-human sentience. The animal physically stays the same, but learns to talk in one language, rolls new Int like a new character would, keeps Wis and gets a bonus to Cha. It's in the PHB.

RP bonus: An Awakened animal automatically befriends the druid that awakened it, I think. Your character could have a mentor and an uncommon backstory.

So, my backstory could be that a druid (possibly a party member) used the awaken spell on a badger, and that's how my character/beast came to be? Sounds pretty reasonable.