EVE Online I: A Terrible Game for Terrible People [Archive]

Venetian Mask

2013-03-25, 07:01 AM

I have removed the original post of this thread and replaced it with this recruitment ad, you can find the original post spoilered at the bottom of this post. Yes, I am abusing my power as thread started, deal with it :smallamused:

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/7744/bannercfw.png
EVE Online in the Playground
Or: Playgrounders in space, what could possibly go wrong.

So what’s this all about?
There is a game where you can fly around in space, mine ores, exploit planetary colonies, manipulate the markets to become a billionaire. A game where you can be a swashbuckling pirate, a grizzled commander of battlefleets, a CEO leading hundreds, or the leader of an alliance with its own space and thousands of pilots under your command. A game where choice has meaning because no action is scripted. A choice where the mistakes of a capital fleet commander can mean the loss of thousands of dollars in in-game ships. Yes, I am talking about Asakai (”http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/eve-online-battle-of-asakai” ).

This game is EVE and the guys behind it are probably better at marketing it than I am, so check out the trailers here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08hmqyejCYU&list=PLF614A7A6461E61E1).

Who are you?
A little bit about myself: I have played EVE intermittently for the last two years. In those years I went from a rookie tackler in EVE Universities lowsec roams to a fleet commander in a large nullsec alliance. I burned out on EVE and gave away my stuff and biomassed my characters. (Hint: this is a terrible idea, if you ever leave EVE keep your accounts around)

After hearing about the battle of Asakai I decided that I really wanted to get back into game. Instead of rejoining my alliance though I felt like trying something new, building up a corp from scratch. So I contacted two good friends, CJ Gallante and Daniel Raen, and started making preparations to start this corporation.

And what is Giant in the Sandbox?
Giant in the Sandbox [GITS.] (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FunWithAcronyms) is a corporation for and by playgrounders. We are currently based out of Teonusude, giving us access to the Molden Heath ring and through it to the Great Wildlands (NPC controlled null security space) and Etherium Reach (Sovereign (player controlled) null security space). This is a region of space which has a special place in my heart as it was the first region where I started leading fleets.

We are lead by a curious bunch, a warmongering CEO (what can I say, I was raised on a PVP background), a pacifist operations director (yes, in EVE, I was as surprised as you when I found out) and a logistics director who is a bit of both. As such we have a directorate that has experience with most things in EVE, name anything and we have probably tried it.

What do you have to offer?
A poor start is a bad start, so we already have quite a few services up and running. Out of game we have a TS3 server, forums, killboards and a wiki. We are currently looking at a jabber server as well (which should be launched over the next week). In game we offer a free ship program, providing free frigates and destroyers for PVP and free ventures, industrials and retrievers for both mining and PI. We also have a skillbooks program, providing a lot of skillbooks that new players need for free. Topping that we have a reimbursement program in place, reimbursing cruisers lost in fleet battles.

I am a veteran player, why should I join?
I’m not going to try and sell this corporation to the veterans of nullsec. We can’t offer sovereign space, or fleet fights numbering the thousands. What we can offer is a fun community and the chance to be at the ground floor of something great. If you are a long term EVE player, but don’t have a corporation, or don’t feel at home in your corporation you should definitely give us a try. We are laid back and don’t really care about killboard stats or fleet activity. We care about creating a fun community to play this terrible game with.

I am a new player/interested in starting to play EVE, why should I join?
EVE is an incredibly fun game once you get into it. A common cause for new players to give up on EVE is the scale though. You get dropped in a gigantic, cold and heartless universe with a few starting ships and some capital and are told: “Good luck, try not to get killed.”

We can help. We have a mentor program, have more free ships than you can die in and can get you started on a path to earning tons of money and flying the largest, most powerful warships. You’ll be flying under at least two experienced nullsec FC’s (Duncan Scone and CJ Gallante) and may one day lead a huge fleet across the universe too.

If you are more industrially oriented we can help you start mining (I heard CJ say something about leading mining operations, but that must’ve been the crazy talking :smallamused”). Alternatively we can get you started in PI, giving you your first industrial, command center and everything you need to set up a running colony. If industry is more your thing we can get you started producing items for the corporation or the wide public, making a nice living on the side.

If you haven’t created an EVE account yet please consider using a corporation trial key. (https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=7b56659c-625a-41d8-a629-064173c09e89&action=buddy) You get a 21-day trial to see if you like the game (instead of a 14-day one with a normal trial) and the reward is shared with you 75:25 (netting you around 375 million ISK (depending on market prices) to start playing with).

Okay you’ve got me convinced, how do I join?
http://v.cdn.cad-comic.com/comics/cad-20120625-8bb4c.png
Especially the submersion in peanut butter. Don’t ask why, its vital, trust me :smallamused:
Glad you ask, our HR drones are always ready to process new applications. We ask only two things of new applicants:
1. They must’ve been a member of the Giant in the Playground community for over 3 months.
2. They must be relatively active on the forums.

If you are confident you meet those standards please follow the steps laid out here (giantinthesandbox.com/wiki/index.php?title=Joining_GITS). If you do not meet the requirements, don’t worry, you can still be vouched in by a full member.

After you are approved and pulled into corp we ask that you make your way to Teonusude and join us on voice comms and the forums.

Do you have any final words?
I hope to see you all in corp soon. Regardless of if you join I would like to say: Fly Safe/Dangerous and I hope to see you all in space (in my fleet or in the sights of my guns) in the near future.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT1U2r7Iph0hUHL9H4TB4ZHASpqlyXus QpOCp9K50iJxOXaDaHW
"That's a nice ship you have there, would be a shame if anything... Happened to it. :smallamused:" ~ Every EVE Pirate Ever

So, I saw that the last thread for this game died out back in may. This simply will not do. I'm wondering: how many playgrounders actually play/want to start playing this terrible game for terrible people (disclaimer: the game is actually not that terrible and the players- well... okay :smallamused:)

I did some FC-ing and nullsec pvp back in the day and I'm probably going to start losing at EVE again soon.

For those of you who haven't heard about EVE yet: It's a big spaceship MMO with an incredibly expansive sandbox, a nigh-completely player-driven economy and players with some of the worst Machiavelli complexes and the most trust issues ever in a MMO, ever. (And with good reason, the game actively encourages bastardry of the highest order, or as the devs call it "content generation" (http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/10/28/eve-evolved-top-ten-ganks-scams-heists-and-events/))

Janwin

2013-03-25, 08:06 AM

Eve Online: You Will Never Find a More Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy

...and I love it.

...hate it. But love it.

Craft (Cheese)

2013-03-25, 08:19 AM

Brother Oni

2013-03-25, 02:03 PM

I like a lot of the high concepts behind EVE: I just wish we could see some of these concepts in a game that strips away the weeks and weeks and weeks of extremely repetitive resource gathering and management in between the interesting parts.

It depends really on what you term 'interesting'.

If you mean flying around in capital ships, then I agree that will take a long time to get the resources.
If you mean contributing meaningfully in PVP, that can be done by the end of the tutorial.

Resources also take a different meaning in Eve as well - I still have an Excel spreadsheet somewhere of the members of a corp that war-decced us, along with various ships I've seen them fly in (sitting cloaked outside a station for an evening sounds really boring, but it's highly entertaining when combined with alcohol and corpchat is having a bluest joke competition).

Venetian Mask

2013-03-25, 02:46 PM

Also it takes literally no effort to take a few thrashers, throw fits on them and go running around kicking ass and taking names with them. :smallbiggrin:

maratek

2013-03-25, 05:11 PM

Triaxx

2013-03-25, 06:49 PM

Trust no one, especially not the admins.

Brother Oni

2013-03-25, 06:51 PM

I'm playing a little, well more so logging on setting skills and browsing over what updates there have been. But the whole untrustworthy aspect of the game kinda ruined any idea of a playground get together I seem to remember. Not that I don't trust anyone but in eve you DON'T trust anyone you don't know in person and even then as my brother reminded me but I'll watch this thread see if anything develops :smallsmile:

My corp ran a hands and throat policy on corp hangar access rights to the really valuable stuff - if the CEO or a director can't physically get their hands on your throat, you're not getting access. :smalltongue:

tigerusthegreat

2013-03-25, 07:20 PM

i love eve but just dont have enough time to play it.

Venetian Mask

2013-03-25, 09:02 PM

My corp ran a hands and throat policy on corp hangar access rights to the really valuable stuff - if the CEO or a director can't physically get their hands on your throat, you're not getting access. :smalltongue:

And a good policy it is, for small corps anyway. When you get larger the best policy is probably the don't want that **** anyway policy - you give access only to stuff that's simply not valuable enough to care about. Stuff like small ammo stockpiles and cheap fitted ships.

I wouldn't mind starting something up with other playgrounders, if there's any interest.

Togath

2013-03-25, 09:18 PM

I've become somewhat interested in trying it ever since reading about it on, but have been wondering how newbie friendly the gameplay is.

Venetian Mask

2013-03-25, 09:25 PM

It has improved quite a bit since the days where they'd kick you into space with a noobship and "Don't die" as your only advice. Your best bet would be to play through the tutorial missions and do some reading over here: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page

If you have any questions you can always post them here and I'll be more than happy to answer them.

illyrus

2013-03-25, 10:58 PM

Just moved back into W-space here for PvP without local and all of that.

Jonzac

2013-03-26, 08:02 AM

I fight the urge every six months or so to get back in. I really don't have the time to do it right and I don't want to pay for the two accounts needed to industrialize at this small of level...and I don't know anyone.

EVE is often like the girlfriend you broke up with, you know she's bad for you and she'll break your heart and pocketbook, leaving you a wreck...but the sex is so good your tempted to go back ALL the time.

Cikomyr

2013-03-26, 08:13 AM

Fjolnir

2013-03-26, 09:50 AM

It is the best end user mod for Excel EVER!!! Spreadsheets in space ftw!

Janwin

2013-03-26, 01:10 PM

I have been tempted playing the game for years now. If I ever play it, it'll be somewhat as a Blockade Runner/Courier.

In every MMO I played, I love being the highly-mobile person who ran through high-leveled areas just for the exploration xp points. Sooo much fun.

Get an interceptor and then just fly around through 0.0 space. Doesn't matter what alliance. Just have fun and see what you can get away with.

Cikomyr

2013-03-26, 01:15 PM

Get an interceptor and then just fly around through 0.0 space. Doesn't matter what alliance. Just have fun and see what you can get away with.

But there is little profit to that, isn't there?

I mean, it'd be nice to actually be paid to do just that. Like I said, Courrier/Blockade Runner :smallbiggrin:

Venetian Mask

2013-03-26, 02:15 PM

But there is little profit to that, isn't there?

I mean, it'd be nice to actually be paid to do just that. Like I said, Courrier/Blockade Runner :smallbiggrin:

In the grand scheme of things shipping stuff in blockade runners is a lot less efficient than just getting someone with a JF to do it for you. Stealth bombers and recons are also hilariously fun to fly if you want to go for the whole sneaky flying behind enemy lines thing.

Apparently people have been sneaking into class 5 wormholes with ventures (1 million ISK ships meant for gas harvesting) and made off with 100-200 millions of ISK under the nose of it's inhabitants. Now that's fun. :smallamused:

Aesthetic Peace

2013-03-27, 10:00 PM

I've been playing on and off for a few years now. I always seem to find new parts of the game to explore and keep myself interested. As janwin said, I also tend to have a love-hate relationship with the game lol. Altogether solid game though when all is said and done.

illyrus

2013-03-27, 11:33 PM

But there is little profit to that, isn't there?

I mean, it'd be nice to actually be paid to do just that. Like I said, Courrier/Blockade Runner :smallbiggrin:

As Venetian Mask said its not the most efficient method but yes, you can make some good money with it. Especially if you're dishonest or willing to work for "the bad guys".

Venetian Mask

2013-03-27, 11:50 PM

As Venetian Mask said its not the most efficient method but yes, you can make some good money with it. Especially if you're dishonest or willing to work for "the bad guys".

Good point. It's not something I've done that much of, (I tend more to the shooty-shooty gameplay to be honest) but it may net you a decent profit doing stuff like supplying lowsec hubs. (It's going to be incredibly risky though, so keep that in mind.)

Draconi Redfir

2013-03-27, 11:50 PM

I haven't played this game in at least two years now, but as a proud Minnmatar warrior, i present to any and all Minmatar brothers and sisters here on the playground, a proud Minny battle song, passed down to me from Minmatar warriors before me.

*Ahem*

If your happy and you know it Pod Amarr!
If you cannot find Caldari Pod Amarr!
If the Minnies are to Frisky, Gallente's actin shifty, and the Jovies are too risky
Pod Amarr!

*bows*

Venetian Mask

2013-03-27, 11:54 PM

Draconi Redfir

2013-03-28, 12:02 AM

Those holes are intentional. Less surface area for enemy bullets to hit you see.

Venetian Mask

2013-03-28, 12:21 AM

It's not a flaw, it's a feature? :smallwink:

Regardless, our fine Caldari missiles seem to do just fine hitting those garbage dumps you call ships.:smallamused:

NeoVid

2013-03-28, 03:52 AM

I'll have you know that the Minmatar make ships from the finest spit and baling wire in the galaxy!

NEO|Phyte

2013-03-28, 07:33 AM

I'll have you know that the Minmatar make ships from the finest spit and baling wire in the galaxy!

Importing Amarr spit must get pretty expensive.

Venetian Mask

2013-03-28, 08:09 AM

I'll have you know that the Minmatar make ships from the finest spit and baling wire in the galaxy!

I do have to give you guys that you do make some fine capital ships, unlike the Amarr who build half a ship and call it a day.

Pekiti

2013-03-31, 11:33 AM

Having played just about everything EVE has to offer over the years, I can say that it offers a pretty realistic social model and cool explosions...but it is not 'new player friendly'. Ever.

Someone else already mentioned its dark allure, and the need to resist going back to play it....it will eat all of your spare time and social life...

Loved it, from being a care bear asteroid mining noob to a lone pirate in a Rifter (best solo T1 frigate ever made) to a corp ECM specialist to a nullsec Manticore pilot to a treacherous espionage agent who stole billions of ISKand crippled a megacorp...EVE is a great game...for people of questionable morals.

Love it
Hate it
...must stay away from it...

Draconi Redfir

2013-03-31, 02:48 PM

Importing Amarr spit must get pretty expensive.

We make up for it by stealing your wine, replacing it with our piss, and then selling said wine at a high price to the Caldari:smallwink:

Venetian Mask

2013-03-31, 04:32 PM

We make up for it by stealing your wine, replacing it with our piss, and then selling said wine at a high price to the Caldari:smallwink:

Which we resell to the Gallente, you don't actually think we're so decadent that we have to import fine wines, do you?:smallamused:

Aesthetic Peace

2013-04-02, 03:08 PM

Which we resell to the Gallente, you don't actually think we're so decadent that we have to import fine wines, do you?:smallamused:

Good thing we Gallente simply re-brand said wine and ship it BACK to those Caldari stiffs. Otherwise I would be quite upset about this news. O.O

PS: For those of you who haven't seen this yet, this is my favorite video of the battle of Asakai (The one where DBRB jumped his leviathan on grid instead of bridging the goon fleet.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLqb-m1ZZUA&feature=youtu.be&t=3m43s

~The above URL has been modified so it skips the intro of the video which contains some "colorful language" as I like to call it. Just a warning that the first few minutes DO contain some language, however this link skips it all.~

Were any of you there? If so who were you flying with? And what did you fly? How would you rate the experience from 1-10?

Hiro Protagonest

2013-04-02, 06:35 PM

Shouldn't you get back to repairing your ship? Your ships fall apart at the lightest nudge if they aren't ducttaped up. Nothing compared to superior Caldari ships really.:smallamused:

Duct tape is cheap.

It's not a flaw, it's a feature? :smallwink:

Regardless, our fine Caldari missiles seem to do just fine hitting those garbage dumps you call ships.:smallamused:

Aren't you a faction that mostly uses lasers?

Venetian Mask

2013-04-02, 07:11 PM

Aren't you a faction that mostly uses lasers?

...

:smallannoyed:

You must be talking about our allies, the Ammar.

View this video for a primer on our most common tactics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eAIQR01ZLw

Glory to the State.

Good thing we Gallente simply re-brand said wine and ship it to those Caldari stiffs. Otherwise I would be quite upset about this news. O.O

I'll reiterate, we Caldari don't suffer from your decadence. We don't need to import those "fine" wines when we have . You must obviously be mistaken.

PS: For those of you who haven't seen this yet, this is my favorite video of the battle of Asakai (The one where DBRB jumped his leviathan on grid instead of bridging the goon fleet.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TLqb-m1ZZUA&feature=fvwp

Were any of you there? If so who were you flying with? And what did you fly? How would you rate the experience from 1-10?

A warning as with all things EVE for strong language is in order. It isn't really all F-bombs, but some strong language is used. Use this link (http://youtu.be/TLqb-m1ZZUA?t=3m43s) to go to the same vid when the music starts to evade all strong language (2-3 occurrences of the F-word in the ~4 minutes before that)

I wasn't there, but it was one of the main reasons to start a new account. (Though you already knew that :smallamused:) I did hear the TiDi was simply idiotic for that fight. Many hamsters must have died to bring us a battle this big.

Hiro Protagonest

2013-04-02, 07:22 PM

...

:smallannoyed:

You must be talking about our allies, the Ammar.

View this video for a primer on our most common tactics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eAIQR01ZLw

Glory to the State.

Well, I don't actually play EVE (naval combat, whether or not there's water or it allows for 3D battles, doesn't interest me, nor does spreadsheet finances). I just thought it was that Gallente and Caldari weapons are mostly lasers.

Venetian Mask

2013-04-02, 07:25 PM

Well, I don't actually play EVE (naval combat, whether or not there's water or it allows for 3D battles, doesn't interest me, nor does spreadsheet finances). I just thought it was that Gallente and Caldari weapons are mostly lasers.

Nah, the Caldari use missiles and hybrid turrets as their primary means of DPS and focus on shield for defense. The Gallente use drones and hybrid turrets and focus primarily on armor as defense. The Amarr make good use of the beam spam and use armor for defense. The Minmatar use autocannons as their primary weapon and are very versatile on the defense, some ships focussing on shields, others on armor, others taking both and many more using duct-tape.:smallamused:

And honestly, you should give it a try. It's more like submarine combat anyway and the spreadsheets aren't required. Besides that there is so much more you can do. You can attempt to create and run a space-empire, which actually takes territory and fights wars with other great empire (Civilizations in Space?). Or you can lead huge fleets (anywhere up to 256 players is a possibility) in combat with other fleets while collaborating with allied fleets on and off field (Supreme Commander in Space?). Or you can infiltrate and rob an entire alliance or even collapse it from within. The possibilities are endless.

Click for a trailer that actually explores the metagame of EVE. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGplrpWvz0I) Also wololol overreacting over the loss of a Merlin? :smallamused:

Or one that shows the strategic battles off. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDVEHE10nHc) Russians vs Allies (I count american, british and aussie voices there)

Draconi Redfir

2013-04-02, 08:09 PM

Venetian Mask

2013-04-02, 08:25 PM

Joining a corporation helps a lot with that. Apart from the obvious companionship and community corporations and alliances help a lot by providing free ships and/or reimbursements. (Also, and this is purely personal opinion so ymmv, but mining is one of the most tedious ways of making ISK and probably also one of the less efficient)

NEO|Phyte

2013-04-02, 08:37 PM

Actually, mining is very efficient.

If you're multiboxing a half dozen or so accounts and stripmining belts.

Aesthetic Peace

2013-04-02, 10:38 PM

Actually, mining is very efficient.

If you're multiboxing a half dozen or so accounts and stripmining belts.

There are a lot of people who do that. Some of them even use up to 30 accounts at a time! Although that may seem a little ridiculous of a thought from a starter's perspective, you've got to do what you've got to do in order to establish your spaceship empire. The thing that makes this prospective at all is the fact that you can buy game time with in-game currency through the in-game market. In EVE you can actually play for "free" while still complying entirely with the ToS and EULA. CCP (The company that started EVE) encourages players to buy, sell, and trade gametime as a virtual asset.

Granted who really wants to run 30 accounts all day every day; But I've seen a few people here mention they don't want to pay for the game / it's a second job so why would I pay for it etc. The glorious thing is, you don't have to. Startup yes, but if you have a corporation or friends to help you get established, you can easily begin playing for free within your first 6-8 months.

illyrus

2013-04-03, 11:18 AM

Sadly some have compared it to a seccond job that you have to pay for, and at times it seems that way. personally i'd live to get into pvp fights and blow myself up some Amarr, but i could never get the money for the stuff so i mostly just wound up hauling minerals a freind mined up back to a staition for him and getting half or so of the resulting cashflow.

All of wich unfortonately occors in Gallete space, when i am much more comfortable in Minny space:smallsigh:

I think this is a common misconception. You can fit out an entire fleet of frigates and destroyers with minimal income and find a lot of fights.

I'm not saying you are this way, but I hear from newbies quite often that think they need to save up to buy some 2 billion ISK deadspace fit tengu, vindicator, or carrier to actually PvP. So they'll spend hours upon hours miserable doing PvE activities then when they finally save up for their solowtfpwnmobile they'll be too afraid to lose it and will not undock. Or they'll undock and lose it to the first battlecruiser they encounter because they had not learned how to PvP in the first place.

Yes it is a lot of fun to fly a tengu solo against 7+ people and wipe the floor with them but it can be just as much fun to take a frigate and beat 2 other frigates or take out a few cruisers with your cruiser etc.

Even in a fleet setup frigate tacklers can be very useful.

Venetian Mask

2013-04-03, 11:59 AM

I think this is a common misconception. You can fit out an entire fleet of frigates and destroyers with minimal income and find a lot of fights.

I'm not saying you are this way, but I hear from newbies quite often that think they need to save up to buy some 2 billion ISK deadspace fit tengu, vindicator, or carrier to actually PvP. So they'll spend hours upon hours miserable doing PvE activities then when they finally save up for their solowtfpwnmobile they'll be too afraid to lose it and will not undock. Or they'll undock and lose it to the first battlecruiser they encounter because they had not learned how to PvP in the first place.

Yes it is a lot of fun to fly a tengu solo against 7+ people and wipe the floor with them but it can be just as much fun to take a frigate and beat 2 other frigates or take out a few cruisers with your cruiser etc.

Even in a fleet setup frigate tacklers can be very useful.

This.

You can fly a basic tackle frigate or an ewar frig within the first 7 days of training. You can fly them for the payout of a level 2 mission too (or a single tick of ratting if you are in null security space).

Also don't make the solopwnmobile mistake. Without player skill you are going to be a shiny lootpiñata waiting to happen.

maratek

2013-04-03, 12:37 PM

So I logged on last night for the first time in a couple of weeks (training BC5) and seen some patches realised my shiny mission runner is all screwed up now I lost a high slot but does more damage who knew. But it seems I'm at a loss as what to do my account is a good 4 months in now still in the starter corp and not really doing much so if anyone feels like doing something or knows of something to do I'm still pretty green in pvp but I'd give it a go or knows anything about this wormhole stuff shoot me a message :)

Venetian Mask

2013-04-03, 12:53 PM

Triaxx

2013-04-03, 01:39 PM

I didn't play a lot, but it seemed to me that PvP was best done as a group activity. It seemed much more prudent and profitable to split the loot among a few players and be able to crush a bigger target, instead of trying to hunt down and single out targets of the same size.

Of course, then you come down to trusting your seller or dealing with a middleman, who gives ISK in exchange for the stuff, even if you might be able to turn it for more.

Venetian Mask

2013-04-03, 01:55 PM

Heh, for me PvP has mostly been an end in itself, not so much a means. Sure you have the large strategic operations, but I personally always preferred the senseless slaughter of spaceships for fun and bragging rights. That's the kind of stuff you do while having fun on comms with corpmates and is what made the game worth it for me.

Guancyto

2013-04-03, 02:49 PM

Just recently picked up EVE and am in a small industrial corporation with some friends from other endeavors. I'm a bit out of place because I prefer blowing things up to making things (battlecruisers are best, capships are overrated and I'll knife fight anybody who says different), but I provide a steady supply of salvage components from my mishing and can fly a 9 container Mammoth, so it's gone pretty well.

I'll second a recommendation for EVE University, not only because they have an excellent base of articles but because learning the game from more experienced players is the best way to do it. And they'll fund your early skillbook needs as well!

It is a bit amusing that, like everything in EVE, the best tutorials are player-generated.

illyrus

2013-04-03, 03:06 PM

Solo consensual PvP is very unforgiving and is like playing an already hard game on hard mode. You have to be willing to engage at a disadvantage in numbers from 1 v 2 to 1 v overview to even get a fight unless you're flying something small like a frigate. This is because the vast majority of the playerbase will only engage when they have a sizable advantage and feel confident in winning. I personally feel very satisfied if I can come out on top in those situations even if it more likely to lead a loss or draw.

Not that I'm saying anything against small gang PvP, I enjoy that as well though I actually find it harder to locate challenging fights at the same frequency. With the prevalence of logi I've seen more "play to sweep" fleets where whoever wins the fight is unlikely to lose a single ship. This makes me very unwilling to commit to a fight where the opponent holds a large advantage as I'm not even going to get the joy of taking someone down with me. There are of course counters to it but it is harder to field them if you're running as the smaller force.

Venetian Mask

2013-04-03, 04:16 PM

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait...

...

EVE has consensual PVP? :smallconfused:

illyrus

2013-04-03, 07:01 PM

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait...

...

EVE has consensual PVP? :smallconfused:

By that I mean both sides are looking to fight. If I'm roaming and encounter a gate camp both of us are looking for a fight.

A bear ratting in a site is not looking for PvP.

I'm going to shoot both but one is clearly going to be more of a fight than the other.

Sprinter

2013-04-04, 10:39 AM

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait...

...

EVE has consensual PVP? :smallconfused:

Way back in those ancient times when i played EVE we called it honourable one on one in my last corp. It didnt happen too often but it happened. All who honoured one on one had our respect regardles of outcome and if you dishonored one on one by calling in backup you were expelled from corp. of course this being EVE we didnt expect other side to always act honourably. Had to count with that before asking one on one and be pleasantly suprised when he held his word.

Story time (good old times rant) :

Remeber having honourable one on one with someone while on solo run in Fountain. day before his alliance mates blobbed and killed my ship so i had one more reason to engage him other reason was the new ship type i flew for first time and i wanted to test my fitting against another ship of same type. I would engage him on gate but wasnt sure he was alone this time so i asked him on one on one. He agreed and we had a very close one on one. I won with only a slice of hull left. It was satisfying to beat older gallente char in gallente ship i could barely fly as Amarr.

Day before i was flying with a friend who was dual accounting a covops frig ( covops cloack alone costed 5x worth of my fitted ship back then ) and a t2 fitted curse we all were on gate looting remains of a ship that belonged to different aliance that was hostile to his corp (his corp didnt engage neutrals back then) Interdictor jumped in ignoring much more valluable targets engaged and bubbled me. Not knowing what was on other side i fired back then suddently 20+ ships jumped in. It was over fast but they werent fast enough catch friends ships nor my pod i somehow managed to get it out of bubble just in time. It proved costly mistake for them unlike me flying solo in Fountain friend had organised his corps gang few jumps away in meantime and even had time to join them in engaging hostile gang and chasing what remained out of Fountain.

There are many things that you never heard off that actualy happened in EVE. For example one of corp mates ransomed someone on local while docked in station.

I guess you havent heard of haiku ransoms either. :smallbiggrin:

Erloas

2013-04-04, 10:48 AM

Daniel Raen

2013-04-05, 07:22 PM

This is how I felt the first time I tried EVE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu_mXUpIzcc)

Sandbox games don't really have a plot, but they give you all the tools you need to make one. I didn't quite get that back then, so I kept waiting for 'things' to happen.

Venetian Mask

2013-04-05, 07:37 PM

For example one of corp mates ransomed someone on local while docked in station.

How'd he get away with that? That's awesome.

I really regret biomassing my character last year. I thought I wouldn't be playing EVE anymore, but the game has a way of sucking you in again. Now I get to enjoy the whole not having the proper skills for anything again. :smallsigh:

Here's a tip: If you ever think about quitting EVE keep your character. Once you've played it once you'll keep coming back to it and you'll hit yourself in the head because you have to train all those skills again.

Aesthetic Peace

2013-04-07, 05:27 PM

I think a lot of people enter into the racial armies (forget the exact term) to get mostly smaller fights. Since they are mostly mid to low sec space that can't be controlled by large alliances and while there are gangs they aren't as common or as big as you would run into otherwise and not everyone can attack you without some consequence.

There are also a lot of tournaments, mostly t1 frigates but I've seen others as well which are all consensual PvP. And with the most recent changes to the aggression tagging system they added essentially a "duel" feature where you can engage a specific other person in high-sec space without drawing concord.

Yeah there is consensual PvP, however the kind I like is pirating around low sec, or null sec to be honest. It's fun to engage all types of people in small scale combat because it really gives you more of a chance to control the outcome, and to play with your own individual style. There's no better feeling than taking down a tough opponent by yourself or in an even fight with freinds. High sec PvP can be fun but it requires war's or tricky games. Also, LOVE the new dueling feature.

Sprinter

2013-04-08, 04:11 AM

How'd he get away with that? That's awesome.

To explain it maybe good start is to explain how corp operated. Neutral but very active PvP corp that used to change 0.0 regions every month or two with very short friend list. That is to ensure max possible range of targets because after month or so number of targets in region starts to drop.

So this happened in Curse after more then month of PVP. So some bear jumps into system sees corp members on local. He panics didnt check scanner (it was in off hours all members are docked) instead he convoes one of the members and ask him for safe passage through system. He tell him ok but you have to send me 15mil ISK. bear pay him 15 mil he screenshots the whole convo and post it with screenshots to prove he was docked on corp forums with title Lazy pirate.

Folytopo

2013-04-10, 12:04 AM

A few of us on the mumble server were thinking of taking the jump. Outside of eve university are there any tutorials to check out. What are some interesting things to do as a group of 3ish?

BoredAshley

2013-04-10, 05:44 AM

I've never played EVE before, but I think I'll let you know about this. There's a contest at http://www.go2arena.com/eve/promo/open/u/fanfest/. You can win tickets for FanFest in Reykjavik. To enter the contest you have to like Go2Arena facebook page.

Venetian Mask

2013-04-10, 09:19 AM

A few of us on the mumble server were thinking of taking the jump. Outside of eve university are there any tutorials to check out. What are some interesting things to do as a group of 3ish?

That depends wholly on what you want to do. As an E-Uni graduate I can attest to the fact that if you've done 3 months in E-Uni you've got a very good broad basis. The best way to continue learning is to figure out what you want to learn and do it. If you know more experienced people (in your corp or alliance for instance) you can check if they'll give you advice or even mentor you. Some corps even have a mentorship program in place to begin with.

The best school after E-Uni is the school of hard knocks anyway.

On that note: shameless self-plug. Me, Aestetic and Daniel (yes, we've all posted in this thread :smallcool:) have been busy the past few weeks setting up infrastructure for a corporation for playgrounders. I think it may be time to open up recruitment for that.

Join us and we'll go and make Teonusude unsafe with the help of our free (corporation provided) dessies. Or subsidised (I'll have to look at Aesthetic here to see if he doesn't kill me for suggesting this) cruisers.

You can find the recruitment thread here: http://gits.webege.com/forums/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7

The corporation is called Giant in the Sandbox [GITS.]
If you have questions or just want to chat you can join GITS.Public or convo me (Duncan Scone), Daniel Raen (our operations director, in charge of HR amongst other things), or CJ Gallante (our logistics director). Our chat windows are always open unless we're incredibly busy.

Cikomyr

2013-04-10, 10:05 AM

To explain it maybe good start is to explain how corp operated. Neutral but very active PvP corp that used to change 0.0 regions every month or two with very short friend list. That is to ensure max possible range of targets because after month or so number of targets in region starts to drop.

So this happened in Curse after more then month of PVP. So some bear jumps into system sees corp members on local. He panics didnt check scanner (it was in off hours all members are docked) instead he convoes one of the members and ask him for safe passage through system. He tell him ok but you have to send me 15mil ISK. bear pay him 15 mil he screenshots the whole convo and post it with screenshots to prove he was docked on corp forums with title Lazy pirate.

And this is why Eve is a terrible game for terrible people...

Venetian Mask

2013-04-10, 10:07 AM

And we all love it for it :smallamused:

The Succubus

2013-04-11, 05:51 AM

I resubbed. Blame Foly and Lena for that. -.-

Character name is Anyura. Currently freelance and I have a...diverse...range of skills to make someone very unhappy.

Daniel Raen

2013-04-11, 07:24 PM

Lets find a way to play together :smallsmile:

A few of us on the mumble server were thinking of taking the jump. Outside of eve university are there any tutorials to check out. What are some interesting things to do as a group of 3ish?Which mumble server, the one in the League of Legends thread?

Astrella

2013-04-11, 07:34 PM

Lets find a way to play together :smallsmile:
Which mumble server, the one in the League of Legends thread?

Hm hm~

I'm probably going to be checking out the trial over the weekend with some mumble folks. (Reading war stories has really made me feel an itch for it. :smalltongue: I'm reading through a huge history about the GoonSwarm v. BoB/Kenzoku conflict.)

Folytopo

2013-04-12, 02:47 AM

I will as well.

Borgh

2013-04-12, 03:21 AM

I can probably boosh a few of you into Dreddit if you feel like it. The culture is pretty much the antithesis of Giantitp but the newbie infrastructure is awesome and 0.0 is neat.

Venetian Masks corp sounds good too, go for that if you think tight-knit is the thing for you.

All the newbies in this thread give me the warm fuzzies by the way.

The Succubus

2013-04-12, 03:23 AM

I'm working on my cloaked ship skills, such as Cov-ops, Recon and Stealth Bombers. It'd be nice to think that one day I'll be able to afford a Black Ops BS. ^_^

Brother Oni

2013-04-12, 04:05 AM

All the newbies in this thread give me the warm fuzzies by the way.

Is that because of the tears you're anticipating when you scoop their burnt frozen corpse from the shattered remmants of their egg, all ready to stuff and mount on the wall of your quarters? :smalltongue:

Borgh

2013-04-12, 04:47 AM

Is that because of the tears you're anticipating when you scoop their burnt frozen corpse from the shattered remmants of their egg, all ready to stuff and mount on the wall of your quarters? :smalltongue:

No its more the feeling you get when a puppy licks a lemon for the first time. You know that in a few seconds there will be a Yelp-and-Squeel but for now you are going "ahh look at that little guy exploring the world and thinking lemons taste like they smell wuddawudda whosagoodboy?"

Same with newbies in eve. You know they will burn out eventually (everyone does, perfectly normal, done it twice myself now) but the hopefull optimism gives me the feels.

Take Succubus up there for example: happy about warping cloaked and hoping to evenually buy a Blackops. I trained covops somewhere in 2009 and affording a blackops is more about finding one on the local market then it is then ISK.

So being reminded that there are still people excited about the little things in this game helps stave of the enui and spreadsheets-online burnout that many veterans of this game get.

I'm happy I'm currently excited again because soon I will be able to fly carriers! Yay! I'll have to scrounge up cynos! do stuff! my personal Logistics will be so much easier :D

The Succubus

2013-04-12, 04:50 AM

Guancyto

2013-04-12, 04:58 AM

Puppy licking a lemon is a positively adorable comparison. (We're probably more like cats trying out hot sauce, but regardless!)

As far as newbie shenanigans, go, I'm having a go at being a trader but it's hard! Not necessarily because of the competition (as a noob I'm free to grab some very low-hanging fruit that isn't worth the industry giants' time), but because of my own spending habits. Namely, the more money you have the more money you can make, but whenever I get more than a hundred million, that always seems like a good time to start spending.

Ooh, got a little money, time to grab level 3 implants. Ooh, got a little money, let's see if a Cyclone's any good. Hmm, traded for a bit more, try out a Hurricane instead. Hum, ammo is expensive, how about a Harbinger?

Whoops, got killed and podded. Well, got a little money, time for level 4 implants. Oh hey, a Noctis might help with that missioning, let's pick one up. Hmm, is that a sale on researched BPOs?

And so on and so on. Mind you, for two months into the game I've a probably-not-terrible list of assets, but it is a bit hilarious to continually bleed money as fast as I can make it.

Brother Oni

2013-04-12, 06:37 AM

So being reminded that there are still people excited about the little things in this game helps stave of the enui and spreadsheets-online burnout that many veterans of this game get.

Yeah, I know the feeling. I was about a month off Cap Ships V and was looking up the prices for the Caldari Titan 1 to achieve my initial goal of being able to get into every Caldari ship (only the Leviathan left) and I thought 'what's the point?'.

Whoops, got killed and podded. Well, got a little money, time for level 4 implants.

Two questions - why were you flying around in space where there's a danger of being podded with a jumpclone with learning implants instead of a blank clone, and what's the price of a full set of +4s these days?

When I got my set of +4s, the prices were so high, it took me about 2 months to get them all.

Janwin

2013-04-12, 08:38 AM

Hm hm~

I'm probably going to be checking out the trial over the weekend with some mumble folks. (Reading war stories has really made me feel an itch for it. :smalltongue: I'm reading through a huge history about the GoonSwarm v. BoB/Kenzoku conflict.)

As someone who fought in said conflict on the GBC side, I can tell you that it's considerably less interesting than it probably reads. :smallwink:

1. BoB disbands.
2. All sov lost.
3. Everyone and their mother grab their kitchen sink and bum rush Delve/Querious/Period Basis.
4. General cluster**** ensues.

No lack of people to shoot at at any time, but to be honest I think I had more fun back when I was in FATAL defending Branch from Razor and its 17 friends (since they couldn't take us alone). Holding BKG, which was the choke point and only entrance to our space, for days on end against overwhelming numbers. Felt like Spartans.

I've been fighting against Goons and friends for...a long time... >.>

I can probably boosh a few of you into Dreddit if you feel like it. The culture is pretty much the antithesis of Giantitp but the newbie infrastructure is awesome and 0.0 is neat.

Venetian Masks corp sounds good too, go for that if you think tight-knit is the thing for you.

As someone in the HBC, I will also highly recommend Borgh's offer. TEST is VERY noob friendly, gives 0 ****s about killboard stats (so if you suck, you don't get reamed a new one for it, so it's a little kinder to new players who are learning), and offers free ship fittings to people who can't afford a ship (there's a channel where noobs can go to ask for a ship). If you think you want to get a taste of 0.0 warfare, it is definitely one of the better organized alliances I've seen as far as supporting their newer members.

If 0.0 doesn't sound like your thing, then Venetian Mask's corp is probably the better bet, though.

Erloas

2013-04-12, 09:27 AM

A quick search of Eve-Central puts the +3s at about 9M and the +4s at about 20-21M.
I found that +3s were generally the acceptable limit for me, if I made more isk I could risk a bit more, but the +3s aren't too bad to loose since I don't expect to be loosing them too much.

Right now I'm working towards skills that are going to change in the summer ship skill patch. I have about 10 days to get into a command ship right now but if I wait I'll have a lot more then that with the 4 (or so) level 5 leadership (category) skills to get in after the change. By the weekend I should be able to fly all of the T2 cruisers except the heavy interdictor, which I need propulsion jamming 5 for.

I was thinking about it the other day and I have the skills to fly Amarr BS, and quite a few of their T2s through cruisers, as well as T2 lasers through BS and I have never actually flown a single Amarr ship (other then a shuttle). I trained them up because it is what most people in our alliance are running for PvE (having Sansha rats around) but haven't actually got a ship yet.

I also need a new PvE ship (we moved home systems recently and I was able to move everything but my tempest with a jump freighter) and was thinking its about time to pick up an Amarr ship for that. I'll probably just paper up a BS build and see what I think and then buy it and give it a try, but are there any suggestions on builds?
Most of the pirate BSs are out of my price range, I might be able to afford a Strategic Cruiser. The command ships and T2 cruisers I can also do but for a normal PvE ship they don't seem to be worth the cost over a normal BS. At this point I'm just looking at 0.0 PvE for the ship, I've got other ships for PvP.
I could just go with my normal Minmatar ships but I'm trying to get away from projectiles for PvE because they aren't always in ready supply where I'm at because not a lot of people are using them where I am. Although the Muninn and Vagabond do have the right resistances built in.

Janwin

2013-04-12, 09:44 AM

I can sell you a Tengu char if you want. :smallwink:

Sansha are EM/Thermal, and the best to shoot at them is EM. Minmatar are the best ships for killing Sansha, with Ammar as second best.

So, you have a few ships as choices.

1. There's the Tengu. This is pretty much your generic go-to ratting/plexing ship. It's fast, maneuverable, can do long range damage with HMLs or tons of close damage with HAMs, can move without fear due to cov ops and interdiction nullifier, and can get the hell out of dodge in a hurry if it has to. Load EM missiles and watch rats melt.
2. There's the Loki. For Sansha, the Loki is probably better than the Tengu, but it's not able to shoot as far as an HML can (means you can't kite as well to evade much of the damage). Use the EM damage ammo.
3. Ishtar. I can't remember if Sansha cap drain, but if they do, making a ship that doesn't care at all about cap is a good choice. An Ishtar can be fit with a pretty absurd passive shield tank, using drones to do all its damage.
4. Minmatar or Amarr BSes.
5. Dominix with drones.

Erloas

2013-04-12, 10:01 AM

I wouldn't need too much time to get into a Tengu anyway, but I can already fly the Loki and Legion (though my subsystem skills need a bit of work still, saving that training time until I think I might actually put it to use).

Sansha are basically Amarr, so deal EM/thermal and are weak to EM/thermal.

Guancyto

2013-04-12, 11:01 AM

Two questions - why were you flying around in space where there's a danger of being podded with a jumpclone with learning implants instead of a blank clone, and what's the price of a full set of +4s these days?

When I got my set of +4s, the prices were so high, it took me about 2 months to get them all.

Got impatient with standings grind, went trading and exploring in nullsec before I had finished the standings for a jump clone. (CVA is the closest nullsec to my home, and they're NRDS so it's not instant death to hang out there. This was also before I discovered corporations that provided jumpclones for free.)

Because making bad and expensive decisions is part of the learning process! Better that than going out to PvP in a faction battleship and barely any skills, I think.

But yeah, +4s are around 20-22million each; I get the impression that there's a huge number of LPs floating around so there's a good supply of them. Still wound up kinda poor after that for a long time.

Venetian Mask

2013-04-12, 11:17 AM

The problem with CVA space is that due to their NRDS policy and their position next to TEST space you're going to come across a lot of gatecamps and roams that are quite NBSI.

Erloas

2013-04-12, 01:18 PM

So I tried two potential fits in EFT, one Apoc and one Abaddon and here is what I came up with.

Apocalypse

Cap stable at 56%, 77.5/70.8% EM/Ther resist, DPS 474 (before drones), active repair is 138 hp/s.
[Apocalypse, PvE]
Capacitor Power Relay II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Power Diagnostic System II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II

Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Abaddon

Cap stable at 35%, 82.0/76.6% EM/Ther resist, DPS 436 (before drones), active repair is 172 hp/s.
[Abaddon, pve]
Capacitor Power Relay II
Reactor Control Unit II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Heat Sink II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
100MN Afterburner II

Mega Beam Laser II, Gamma L
Mega Beam Laser II, Gamma L
Mega Beam Laser II, Gamma L
Mega Beam Laser II, Gamma L
Mega Beam Laser II, Gamma L
Mega Beam Laser II, Gamma L
Mega Beam Laser II, Gamma L
Mega Beam Laser II, Gamma L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

With both I didn't have a lot of room to work with unless I changed the weapons down. This puts the range about where it needs to be, as the complexes I have done before with the corp we pretty much sat at around 40k and perma-tanked the enemies. I don't have Advanced Weapons Upgrades to 5 yet, and that caused all sorts of fitting problems (I also remapped away from Perc/Will a while ago so it would take forever to train it at this point).
The Apocalype the last medium slot I could fit either a tracking computer, web, target painter (seemed to be worthwhile against a lot of cruisers but not totally sure) or maybe something else. I had an AB there at first but I was always running into either CPU or PG limits.

As long as the tank holds the Apocalypse is better. Not sure what kind of DPS I need to be tanking though, because I could always switch some damage out for more tank in the low slots if necessary. I don't have my Tempest build handy to estimate its tank and resists, it could perma-tank quite a few of the complexes I did but not all of them. And at this point I don't really remember what level I was doing.

Janwin

2013-04-12, 02:25 PM

If you're planning to do plexes and not just rat, I feel like both of those are a bit behind where I'd want them to be.

If you can fly a Loki, it's probably your best bet due to strong resists against these targets.

Using 53% EM/47% Thermal damage profile for Sansha to determine resists...

Cap stable at 80%, pulse the repairer as needed. 2m 31s of repairer running constantly. (All lvl 5 skills.)

Resists: EM - 93.8%; Therm - 86.5%; Kin - 55%; Exp - 62.5%
Sustained defense: 347 EHP/s
Burst defese: 512 EHP/s
DPS: 375 (however, remember that you're using medium guns instead of larges, with better tracking, so you're better off against the smaller ships in plexes)
[Loki, Plexing]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

10MN Afterburner II
Medium Shield Booster II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
EM Ward Field II
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier

720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
Prototype Cloaking Device I

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network
Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Loki Offensive - Turret Concurrence Registry
Loki Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier

Erloas

2013-04-12, 04:55 PM

I'll be doing anomalies rather then complexes (not sure if I said that before or not, was thinking complexes but just got the names mixed up). I'm not sure if there are any good complexes near where our home system is.

I was kind of surprised that the Loki wasn't that much more then the BSs, I thought they were a lot more, but the medium modules make up for some of that. Although I wouldn't use the Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier as that is about 25% of the cost of everything else. I'm not sure why you picked the Propulsion Subsystem that you did, for a PvE fit I don't see the point and the extra low slot could be useful as well as the extra speed.
I'm also wondering if the Projectile Scoping Array might work out better then the Turret Concurrence Registry in the end because the light drones should do a lot more damage then the small increase in weapon damage (as ROF increase is pretty much equivalent to a damage increase).
The EFT damage numbers shows the loki is only slightly lower damage against BSs and a lot better damage against cruisers and frigates compared to my builds. Not sure if the tank is that much better, but with the speed it could speed tank a whole lot of damage and that is harder to put a number on.
I would also have to play around with it and see how cap-stable it would be with my skills.
I might also have to play with an armor tanking setup, wouldn't even need an EM damage resist module then.

Aesthetic Peace

2013-04-12, 05:25 PM

If you're planning to do plexes and not just rat, I feel like both of those are a bit behind where I'd want them to be.

If you can fly a Loki, it's probably your best bet due to strong resists against these targets.

Using 53% EM/47% Thermal damage profile for Sansha to determine resists...

I agree with janwin on the point that those tanks are pretty light; Tech 1 battleships are not really the thing to use for complexes. I used to do Blood Raider complexes in a somewhat expensive Machariel. I find that they are awesome for ratting because of their ability to do different damage types, and their ability to hit any target regardless of size. I could 2-3 shot elite frigates and clear all the frigates before they got to me about 90% of the time, and trust me when I tell you that not having to worry about being webbed or scrammed by frigate rats is very relieving in 0.0 space. Even still, I needed logi even with a 1.5 bil tank on a fast, manouverable faction BS. I have heard of many people using Lokis for PVE vs BR / Sansha rats due to it's built in resists and it's mobility and diversity of being a T3. Ishtar's work well with T2 sentries or even Ogre II's if you don't mind spending a little more time in each site and also has the tank (sig/speed tank + high resist) built in and easily fits up nicely with an active armor tank.

Tengu's also work, however they take a bit more damage than usual and you run the risk of running into very painful webbing tower setups in some complexes.

Erloas

2013-04-12, 06:47 PM

So I didn't realize that Minmatar BSs had an extra 10% EM armor resist compared to Amarr. Because checking my current tempest setup and the apocalypse the Tempest as an ehp/s of 415 and the apoc has at 319 (switching one of the rigs to an auxillary nano pump, which I had forgot about until I looked at the tempest fit, and for whatever reason the Apoc is still cap stable with that when it wasn't when I was ETFing it at work)
And yeah, I wouldn't want much less of a tank then what the Tempest has, I had just assumed the Apoc would be as good, if not better, at armor tanking. The tempest also does it with only slightly less DPS, 463 vs 474.

I wonder if this would be one of the few cases where a Reactive Armor Hardener would work out pretty well. A very set incoming damage and it could stay active long enough to get fully adapted before I get into trouble.

I guess I'll be looking through my options some more. I know a few people in my corp had better tanks then me with the Amarr BSs... I know at least one had a Navy Issue and that could have been what I was thinking of.

Grim Portent

2013-04-12, 07:03 PM

This threads making me want to get back onto EVE and give my Drones an airing. Kind of miss pottering about salvaging ships while my drones fought for me.

Jonzac

2013-04-12, 10:26 PM

I know. I had just finished training T2 sentries when I stopped.

Must fight. The urge.

Venetian Mask

2013-04-12, 11:05 PM

I know. I had just finished training T2 sentries when I stopped.

Must fight. The urge.

No you musn't, come join me and we shall rule the galaxy as... Stranger and random guy I just met? :smallcool:

Erloas

2013-04-12, 11:44 PM

So I've been playing around some more in EFT and I was very surprised to see that the Maelstrom handily out tanks and out DPSs the Amarr BSs. At least on paper.
I also found the Loki handily beats the Legion with almost the same tank and better damage. And the Maelstrom doesn't even out-damage the Loki against BSs until the drones are added in even though the DPS number that EFT gives is 531 vs 373. It is never even close for the cruiser and frigate. Although the Loki still ends up with the ammo dependency I was trying to avoid... at least artillery don't eat through it quite as fast as ACs.
I'm kind of surprised, through all of my playing around in EFT that my original Tempest fit is almost the same in terms of defense (at least by the numbers, the loki has a pretty good speed tank going) and the damage is better by a noticeable amount against the BSs and the cruiser and frigate damage is about proportionately worse then the BS is better.

So here are the two builds:

Loki
Damage is 373, defense is 420 ehp/s (vs sansha) 92/88.3% em/them resist, and a max speed of 737 with AB (cap stable at 48%)

[Loki, PvE long]
Power Diagnostic System II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

10MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Stasis Webifier II
Target Painter II

650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

Hobgoblin II x5

Not sure if I'm happy with the medium slots, not really sure what to do with them. Could also switch the Dissolution Sequencer subsystem for an Immobility Drivers, which helps against the frigates but not a whole lot else.

Tempest
Damage is 576, defense is 415 ehp/s (vs sansha) 82/78.4% em/them resist, and a max speed of 140, cap stable at 45%
[Tempest, 1200 t2]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Gyrostabilizer II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II

1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Phased Plasma L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Phased Plasma L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Phased Plasma L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Phased Plasma L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Phased Plasma L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Phased Plasma L
Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher, Mjolnir Light Missile
Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher, Mjolnir Light Missile

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Anti-Thermic Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Curator I x2
Infiltrator II x2
Acolyte II x1

The light missile launchers are because I didn't have much PG left and it is the frigates that are the hardest to deal with. And of course the drones can be changed (just what I had in EFT not what I'm actually using), and the medium slots might do with a bit of change.

Tempest also running about 100m cheaper.

Arutema

2013-04-13, 01:23 AM

I prefer autocannons for my minnie boats. Here's my current general-purpose Loki:

[Loki, Passive]
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

10MN Afterburner II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I

Medium Core Defense Field Purger II
Medium Core Defense Field Purger II
Medium Core Defense Field Purger II

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

Hobgoblin II x5

557 DPS at 30KM falloff, and 302DPS generic tank (415 Sansha). The naturally good tracking of autocannons means hitting frigates isn't too hard, and there's drones to back it up. Truly a fun little ship.

Erloas

2013-04-13, 07:44 AM

I prefer ACs too, well at least I did until I moved into 0.0 space in an alliance that doesn't seem to use too many Minmatar ships. I think a big part of that is because it is Sansha space most of the rats are weak to lasers as well as dropping laser and armor tanking loot, so a lot of people rat in Amarr ships.
It isn't that there aren't projectile rounds for sale, but they aren't nearly as quick to pick up as in empire space and cost a lot more too. The corp can make them, but with limited factory slots and not a lot of other people using them it didn't seem right to burn through so much ammo if I could help it. (I don't have access to the corp BPs to make more myself)

I'm going to try building a pulse Legion and see how that stacks up.

edit: well here is an attempt.
EHP/s is 503, damage is 319, cap stable
The wed does little except against frigates and really only necessary if they are AB frigates (not sure how common that actually is in PvE). But not sure what else to put there either, nothing else that does anything for PvE really helps against anything but frigates again and even then it isn't as much.
[Legion, PvE short heavy pulse]
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Power Diagnostic System II

Stasis Webifier II
10MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Energy Collision Accelerator I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I

Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers
Legion Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network
Legion Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

I also tried a focused pulse build, defense drops to 427 and damage increases to 335, didn't really seem worth it in the end. Still not as good as the Arty Loki in damage, better tank but lower top speed.
The drones seem to make all the difference in damage on the Loki, I might have to try a drone build with the Legion as well...
edit: edit:
So a drone build doesn't gain me much except damage range. Obviously the hammerheads do good against frigates, the only scenario where the Legion beats the Loki in damage, and it is the only situation where the Legion does damage outside of about 12km (with multifrequency crystals at least), and with the free high slots I can fit a drone link augmenter for additional range.

Right now it is hard to see a reason to use anything but the Tempest. Caldari or Gallente BSs are another option, but my drone and missile skills are mediocre at best and I can't fit T2 hybrids.

Astrella

2013-04-13, 09:10 AM

Venetian Mask

2013-04-13, 09:16 AM

So, less than a day of playing and I already managed to embarrass myself. >>'

Was doing the scanning tutorial but it seemed like I couldn't find any anomalies. Lots of tried fixings, and then it turns out that the window was too compressed to show the results and I had driven Succubus silly by then... :smallredface:

Hehe, at least you didn't lose your ship or all your money :smallamused:

Anyway, I've updated the mainthread with a propaganda blurb for Giant in the Sandbox. If you want to join GITS. you can find the instructions in the first post. If not I'd love to have you over in the GITS.Public channel. While it's technically a channel for the corporation it's also meant as a place for all playgrounders to socialize.

illyrus

2013-04-13, 08:22 PM

Keep in mind all the BSes are being redone for summer as well so builds that may be good now may not work in 2 months time.

Daniel Raen

2013-04-14, 12:20 AM

A Typical EVE Morning:

Player: brush teeth

Eve: you don’t have a toothbrush

Player: buy Electric Toothbrush I

Eve: are you sure? that item is 43 jumps away

Player: fly to item

Eve: autopilot disabled. waypoint reached

Player: dock

Eve: docking permission requested

Player: dock

Eve: docking permission requested

Player: dock

Player: dock

Player: dock

Eve: docking request...... accepted

Player: buy Electric Toothbrush I

Player: equip Electric Toothbrush I

Eve: you don’t have the skills necessary to use that item

Player: buy Teethbrushing

Player: train Teethbrushing I

Eve: skill training complete

Player: equip Electric Toothbrush I

Eve: you don’t have the skills necessary to use that item

Player: buy Electric Toothbrush Operation

Player: train Electric Toothbrush Operation I

Eve: skill training complete

Player: equip Electric Toothbrush I

Eve: insufficient power

(copypasted from elsewhere)

Erloas

2013-04-14, 12:35 AM

I missed those DevBlogs, though I haven't been following them that closely lately either.
The Maelstrom isn't changing at all. The only downside to the Tempest is a larger signal radius, but everything else it is getting is positive. It will be able to fit my arty setup easier without advanced weapon upgrades V now, and it has a larger HP pool but won't really change much in terms of its active tanking ability.

It looks like for the most part it is really only the less useful BSs for each race that are getting much changed.

I would be interested to see what the prices do with the changes. I would imagine all of the BSs are going to fall about into the current "middle" BS prices.

I guess the thing to do is watch what is going on and you could potentially make some money on the change. If those "cheap" bottom tier BSs go up in value and use, there could be a decent amount of money to be made there.
For instance the minmatar BSs go (cheapest 5% listed on EVE-central) 97m/140m/200m and the Amarr ships are about in that range too.
If they go for the middle you could potentially make upwards of 45m per BS you buy so long as you buy them early before others notice the same thing. I would also expect to see demand for those ships jump a lot with the new changes because people will want to see what they can do even if they don't end up being all that amazing.

illyrus

2013-04-14, 11:36 AM

BS changes are not final yet for any of them. The hyp and mega changed from the initial proposal to current by quite a bit and I doubt they're done yet. For the tempest there has been some talk on shifting the slots around a bit.

Also they're talking about changing cruise missiles and torps some (my guess is to be a bit more effective against smaller ships). And you have the navy battlecruisers (harby, drake, brutix, hurricane) that should be coming out with the expansion as well.

I suspect the prices will go up for at least all the lower tier BSes as their build materials will be increased (as they've done for nearly everything prior with tiercide).

Tychris1

2013-04-14, 03:29 PM

Well hotdog, this sounds like fun on the bun. Going to join as soon as I can, albeit the link to go to the GITS forums is busted. Does anyone have a link that works?

Edit: Forget about it, got the link.

SlyGuyMcFly

2013-04-14, 04:46 PM

Ah hell.

I'l try EVE again. Maybe this time it'll stick. I looooove the concept, have never quite got the hang of it. Being in a friendly corp with knowhow and support probably goes a long way.

Last time I free-trialed I actually had decent fun, flying around empty 0.0 space with a day-old toon and a Rifter, fancying myself some sort of pirate. After a few of hours and spooking away a couple of miners, a Caldari missile boat of some description showed up and blew me to bits rather unceremoniously.

...I'm still confused as to how that constitued "fun", but it was. :smalltongue:

Tychris1

2013-04-14, 08:45 PM

Quick question.

Is this Cormorant (http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/62675-Cormorant-Best-destroyer-in-the-game.html) build any good? I tried to participate in PvP but nothing happened and my ship feels a little, well, crappy to be doing anything rash like going in guns a blazing. As of such I want to outfit my current ship to the best of my abilities so that I can actually contribute, and plan on getting that money via the epic arc (Speaking of which, would anyone be interested in helping me through that?). But before I devote time and isk to this I want to be sure it's worth it (Mainly because I can't afford to screw up too much).

Thanks.

Erloas

2013-04-14, 10:30 PM

Not that I'm all that good at PvP, but it looks reasonable to me.
Like every ship smaller then a T2 cruiser you really have to pick your battles. ECM is one of those all or nothing sort of defenses, if it works you'll be fine, if not you could be in trouble. Although being a destroyer you can probably just DPS down anything smaller then you or not ready for short range PvP. Although someone with a web and a range over 5k can probably either force you to run at ECM break or kill you.

illyrus

2013-04-15, 02:32 AM

Fit your destroyer with a tank and not ECM for 4 reasons.

1. Playing with ECM teaches you little for 1v1, you're depending upon random chance and nothing more

2. You can be torn apart in seconds when it doesn't work

3. For bigger ships fighting on gates you've basically told them to run when you jam them so you'll have people start waiting out their jump timer much earlier and get away, causing you to lose some kills you would have had.

4. People will be less willing to fight you in the future if they know you like to use ECM or else will just blob and kill you as they consider it a very cheap tactic reducing repeat fights.

As destroyer skills are still merged I'd probably try something like the Algos or Catalyst as they do a bit better job at brawling. If you have decent rocket/drone skills you might want to try the Dragoon or Corax as they can more easily achieve their dps on paper. If you do let me know and I can paste a build for those.

You may want to use a simple frigate like a Merlin:
[Merlin, New Setup 2]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Damage Control II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Medium Shield Extender II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I

Downgrade as needed for fitting/ISK. Carry null and fed navy antimatter as well.

You really need to have a web and scram to use blasters effectively against a smart opponent as you need to be able to get within ~1 km to start dealing good damage. Personally I run with activate tanks on frigates but that takes some getting used to and requires thermodynamics to be effective.

Tychris1

2013-04-15, 02:30 PM

I have decent rocket skills, so a Corax is probably for me (Woop! Caldari!). Alright, i'll start looking up Corax builds then. Thanks for the advice.

The Succubus

2013-04-15, 03:15 PM

Just a heads up but I'm thinking about holding a frigate tourney in Teonusude at some point later this week. There may be shinies for the winners. Only rule so far is tech 1 stuff only, so no tech 2 or faction things. This extends to the hull as well.

Tychris1

2013-04-15, 03:20 PM

You know, I wish I could say I was mad, or that I didn't see it coming. But setting your ship on autopilot while you watch youtube videos because "The station is just 5 jumps away" is the worst idea ever.

Now instead of a banging awesome Cormorant I have this...... green space potato.

Atleast I still have my skills......

illyrus

2013-04-15, 03:36 PM

I have decent rocket skills, so a Corax is probably for me (Woop! Caldari!). Alright, i'll start looking up Corax builds then. Thanks for the advice.

I think I ran around in LS a few times and killed some destroyers/frigates/AFs with:
[Corax, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Emergency Damage Control I

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

Carry some Mjolnir rockets as well for using against Gallente, Caldari, and to a lesser extent Amarr T2 ships thanks to their resistance profile. If you're fighting something like a blaster or AC frigate/destroyer just set Keep At Range at about 7.5 km or manually orbit* anywhere in the 7 to 8.5 km range. Basically they'll be doing anywhere from 0% to 50% of their paper dps to you while you'll be doing around 70% to 100% of your paper dps to them (depends if they have an afterburner for that damage difference).

Wait till you hit 70% shields before using the booster and always thermo it without wasting charges on over repping. Really most frigate/destroyer fights are so quick you can afford to thermo everything for half to all of the fight. Hope that helps.

*Manual orbit is one of those tricks that it seems like while everyone kind of understands the concept of clicking in space a bunch to having your ship make an orbit few understand the strength behind it. Whether it is kiting 10 guys in some nano ship or getting under the guns of a battlecruiser with your torp battleship to the extent that their gun dps approaches zero it is a very useful skill to master for PvP.

Tychris1

2013-04-15, 03:41 PM

illyrus

2013-04-15, 03:52 PM

Hmmm, how much does all this cost anyway? I'm currently barely scraping by to even get a Corax (After the autopilot incident) and i'd like to start building this fantastic sounding build as quickly as possible.

Here is a cheaper version of the above:
[Corax, New Setup 2]
Ballistic Control System I
Damage Control I

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50
Patterned Stasis Web I
Warp Scrambler II

OE-5200 Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
OE-5200 Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
OE-5200 Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
OE-5200 Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
OE-5200 Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
OE-5200 Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
OE-5200 Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

The only thing that is expensive is the scrambler at around 1.2 million ISK I believe. I think it is really worth it for the range boost it gives over the lesser warp scramblers.

For this cheaper build you're looking at about 2 million ISK for fittings and ammo. For the previous one quite a bit more, probably in the 7 million ISK range for just fittings.

Tychris1

2013-04-15, 03:59 PM

Here is a cheaper version of the above:
[Corax, New Setup 2]
Ballistic Control System I
Damage Control I

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50
Patterned Stasis Web I
Warp Scrambler II

OE-5200 Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
OE-5200 Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
OE-5200 Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
OE-5200 Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
OE-5200 Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
OE-5200 Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
OE-5200 Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

The only thing that is expensive is the scrambler at around 1.2 million ISK I believe. I think it is really worth it for the range boost it gives over the lesser warp scramblers.

For this cheaper build you're looking at about 2 million ISK for fittings and ammo. For the previous one quite a bit more, probably in the 7 million ISK range for just fittings.

Hmmm, that all seems pretty legit. Well, I'll probably pick up some rust bucket P.O.S in the current 0.0 sec space i'm in right now, and start grinding level 1 missions to get this. Thank you oh so very much for this! A 4 million (Counting the Corax) build is alot more affordable.

Folytopo

2013-04-15, 04:37 PM

Venetian Mask

2013-04-15, 05:12 PM

Astrella

2013-04-15, 05:44 PM

I joined up with the gits guys. So far so good. Yesterday we went around low sec and got to see a player was not on my team blow up for once. That was cool. Apparently he had good loot. I am looking forward to doing again some time this week.

I'm the best at being bait. :smalltongue:

But it was fun though, the whole command structure and organizing thing and tension is neat.

The Succubus

2013-04-16, 03:30 AM

Aha. I do believe I've found an ideal prize for our tourney winner, in addition to the GitS 100M. =3

Grim Portent

2013-04-16, 06:39 AM

Well I've added some time to my account and taken the dust sheet off my Megathron. Time to glance over what I still have laying around.

Edit: Good grief how did I wind up with so much junk scattered around the nearby systems. Spaceships stranded everywhere and upgrades sitting forlorn 9 jumps away.

Janwin

2013-04-16, 07:49 AM

Aha. I do believe I've found an ideal prize for our tourney winner, in addition to the GitS 100M. =3

An Avatar? Ooh ooh, please say it's an Avatar. :smallbiggrin: :smallwink:

Tychris1

2013-04-16, 10:18 AM

An Avatar? Ooh ooh, please say it's an Avatar. :smallbiggrin: :smallwink:

Pfft, Leviathan's are where it's at :smallamused:

Cikomyr

2013-04-16, 10:26 AM

Guancyto

2013-04-16, 10:45 AM

Hmm, I'm not in the GitS (in a tiny industrial corp with friends instead), is this frigate tournament open to outsiders?

And what're the rules on Meta 1-4 equipment?

Erloas

2013-04-16, 12:46 PM

So just after making the movie to the new system the corp CEO sent out a mail saying we're going to be leaving the alliance. It mostly has to do with the fact that we get a lot of war decs all the time (think we currently have 3 against us right now) which makes it a pain to do anything in high-sec.

So we're going to move to high sec for at least a while. The corp has also slowed down because the more active players have had life come up a lot. So I might join GITS in a little while. Although it does depend on when other people are actually on, I know there are a few Europeans posting here, and some without a location, so I want to make sure there are going to be people on when I'm on if I'm going to join.
Not on much during the week, but when I am it is usually around 9pm MST (which I think is around 3-4 Eve time... I'll have to check when I get home). And on the weekends I'm more likely to have time to play in the morning, such as 8am to noon MST (which I think works out to around 1500 to 1900 Eve time, DST obviously messes with it some).

The Succubus

2013-04-16, 02:05 PM

Hmm, I'm not in the GitS (in a tiny industrial corp with friends instead), is this frigate tournament open to outsiders?

And what're the rules on Meta 1-4 equipment?

The aim of the tourney is for it to be open to our very newest players, so basic equipment (Autocannon I, Small Armour Repairer I, Pulse Laser I - that sort of thing, rather than Fleet Murky Prototype Weird Thing).

So yes, Meta 1 only.

It's not going to be a massive thing, so please don't broadcast it to all and sundry - the folks that post in this thread only will be accepted.

Janwin

2013-04-16, 02:37 PM

There's considerable difference between Fleet X and Fleeting X.

But from what you're saying, the tournament is all Meta 1, it sounds like. Confirmation on that would be good, though.

Guancyto

2013-04-16, 03:26 PM

Meta 0. That's Meta 0. =P

Understood! I'll keep it on the down low.

Venetian Mask

2013-04-16, 03:33 PM

The aim of the tourney is for it to be open to our very newest players, so basic equipment (Autocannon I, Small Armour Repairer I, Pulse Laser I - that sort of thing, rather than Fleet Murky Prototype Weird Thing).

So yes, Meta 1 only.

It's not going to be a massive thing, so please don't broadcast it to all and sundry - the folks that post in this thread only will be accepted.

This isn't my tournament so it's completely up to you but I'd suggest allowing meta modules. Everyone can use them, they're relatively cheap and sometimes easier to fit, which is another plus for newbies.

I'm also debating adding a cute newbie price that only folks under x months or x sp can win. More on that later.

Erloas

2013-04-16, 03:37 PM

I would think through Meta 4 would be fine, as even those are not prohibitively expensive (I think there are a few exceptions to that), which leaves out all T2 and faction equipment.
I think it leaves a bit more room for playing with builds too because in many cases they have better fitting requirements then the standard items.

Any other rules or guidelines? Is there going to be a random location where we meet, are we going to start out at a certain range or already locked? Any items not allowed? If we're running an active tank can we disengage and warp off to regen before heading back in (which would also imply whether or not we worry about something like warp scramblers)?

The Succubus

2013-04-16, 04:49 PM

Hmmm, okay. A few suggestions then:

* Allow Meta modules
* No faction or Tech II
* No ECM (tracking disruptors, sensor damps and painters are fine)
* Seriously, no ECM

I think I'll allow the warp off and warp back in but maybe set a time limit on it? If you spend longer than a minute off the grid, you're disqualified, with time accumulating.

Have a bookmarked can that people warp to 30km out from.

Oh, one final thing - make sure you have a spare frig. Because once the tourney is over, we're going to pop into low sec for a Battle Royale. All ships warp in, one ship warps out. :smallbiggrin:

Janwin

2013-04-17, 08:33 AM

So the fights are 1v1 and allow warp off? k That certainly changes the fittings I was contemplating.

Erloas

2013-04-17, 10:51 AM

Janwin

2013-04-17, 12:46 PM

No way. Armor tank pro tank. :smallwink: :smallbiggrin:

NEO|Phyte

2013-04-17, 01:11 PM

Hull tank is best tank.

Guancyto

2013-04-17, 05:14 PM

Hull tank is best tank.

This man speaks truth. Damage Controls are the best tank. :smalltongue:

And yeah, dunno, warpoff and no ECM does strange things to the fittings I was throwing together. Maybe I'll just bring a triple-RR Scythe to rep up the winners and watch the thing unfold...

illyrus

2013-04-17, 06:00 PM

Not sure what I want to do. I've had several different ideas and not sure what I want to go with yet, as (like everything in Eve) they all have their advantages and disadvantages.

And either the online missile calculators that I have found are kind of broken or explosive velocity doesn't work the way I think it does, as they are showing virtually no damage reduction when going upwards of 4x the explosive velocity.

I'm going to guess we'll be seeing a lot of ancillary shield boosters.

Try EFT's dps graph as it works fine for me. Ship sig and speed does make a big difference for missiles though a sig many times larger than the explosion radius is going to make the explosion velocity not matter much. So for example flipping on an MWD is not an effective damage reduction tool due to sig bloom which is my guess on why your numbers are looking odd.

Assuming no cap used:
M ASB: 1022 hp per reload
S ASB: 364 hp per reload

for shield extenders you have:
MSE II: 1050 *1.25(skill) = 1312.5 hp
SSE II: 263 * 1.25 = 328.75
MicroSE II: 131 * 1.25 = 163.75

reference: http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?6788-TMA-The-mechanics-of-Ancillary-Shield-Boosters&p=641063&viewfull=1#post641063

Erloas

2013-04-17, 06:19 PM

I had been messing with EFT to figure out how things worked and it didn't seem like the rockets had any damage reduction based on speed which is why I was trying to see if it was actually taken into account.

It has been a long time since I've actually flown a frigate. I was thinking about some unconventional builds and looked at the Vigil and it seems that it is about as different from what I remember as it could be.

Would it be good to put an upper price limit on the ship and modules? With that you might even allow some T2 equipment, because in some cases t2 equipment is cheaper then the meta 4 modules and some of them are very easy to train, t2 guns not so much, but many of the other types of modules only require level 4 skills.

Are rigs ok? I don't think it has been mentioned but quite a few beginner frigate tournaments seem to have that restriction.

Venetian Mask

2013-04-17, 06:26 PM

Giant in the Sandbox will be contributing the following to the tournament:

1. 100 Million ISK to the prizepool.
2. An as of yet undetermined newbie prize for the best player younger than 3 months.
3. A schwanky medal to the winner (and based on the amount of players the second and third place as well).

On the topic of rigs, this is The Succubus' call, but if fitting them is an issue experienced players can rig the ships for the newer players (just put a limit on the ISK cost for rigs)

The Succubus

2013-04-18, 08:34 AM

Huh, I always thought you needed the skills to fly a rigged ship...I'd prefer doing without rigs but I'll follow the popular vote.

As it stands now, I'm going to run the tourney on Saturday night (6pm-8pm) GMT.

* Maximum ship value is 1 mil at Jita prices, including hull and all fittings.
* Meta 0 - 4 is allowed but no faction or tech II stuff.
* You are allowed a maximum of 1 minute off grid (i.e. warping out of the area), with the time starting from when you warp off. Time adds up, so warping off for 40 seconds, coming back, fighting and warping off for another 30 seconds will see you disqualified.
* No ECM. Being perma jammed is no fun for anyone.
* Tracking Disruptors, Target Painters and Sensor Damps are okay.

Bring at least two frigates - you'll need one for the Battle Royale after the tourney.

Erloas

2013-04-18, 09:01 AM

Ah, that is a very limited price fitting, but it should make things much more interesting in possible fits that we could be facing. I might look at another frigate hull just because the "good" frigates run about 400-500k from what I've been seeing.
As an aside, how "hard" is the 1m limit? Say I buy stuff at Rens and it ends up slightly more expensive at Jita, will there be an issue? (or should I just specifically build from Jita's numbers... anyone know where EFT pulls its pricing from?)
(As an aside, I think Goons Burn Jita "event" is this weekend, so be careful)
I hope I can make it, I might be taking a bit of a trip this weekend.

Tychris1

2013-04-18, 10:30 AM

Does the battle royale follow the same principles? I might be getting my Plex sooner then expected and I want to know how upwardly I can scale for the big fight.

The Succubus

2013-04-18, 10:49 AM

I'm not going to say it's to the nearest ISK but I would ask that you don't take the mick either and get your buddy to sell you a full set of Meta 4 items for 10,000. Remember - this tourney is primarily about encouraging new pkayers to play EVE and join in PVP stuff - it's not an opportunity for people to show off and be jerks. Be sensible, is all I ask.

Same deal applies for the Battle Royale, except instead of 1 on 1, it's everyone shooting at everyone else.

Oh, and no warping off in the Battle Royale. All ships warp in, only one ship warps out.

Tychris1

2013-04-18, 10:58 AM

Venetian Mask

2013-04-18, 11:02 AM

Brother Oni

2013-04-18, 12:48 PM

Trust me, I am far and away from being good at PvP (Flying in 0 Sec space on autopilot) and I don't even have a frigate to my name (Well I do have the starting one, but that's 36 jumps away) I was just curious.

I believe if you dock at a NPC station in just your capsule, you get given a racially appropriate starter frigate.

Erloas

2013-04-18, 12:54 PM

That is really cool, I hadn't seen that before. I have been using Eve-central for my market checking but it wasn't that fast for large lists of items.

I would also say general empire space rather then Jita specifically, because Jita's prices are really bad for some items.
The Rifter, Breacher, and Vigil can all be found in empire space for 300-350k, but in Jita they are all 400-600k, which is about 1/3 of the budget lost in just Jita prices. Even Amarr ships like the punisher are <450k in The Citadel but 530k in Jita. The most extreme I've noticed right off is the 280mm Prototype Siege Cannon is 340k in Rens, but it is 1.2M in Jita. Obviously the meta weapons will be cheapest in empire space where the rats drop them.

As an aside, Sunday would be better for me then Saturday. But whatever works for the most people is what has to be done.

I really haven't done much PvP either, I've been in 0.0 space a lot but not actually done a whole lot of PvP. Been ganked a few times (mostly at gatecamps), and I've joined some fleets and small gangs which spent a lot of time flying or waiting around and never really did any actual fighting.

SlyGuyMcFly

2013-04-18, 01:21 PM

Welp, I'll be travelling this weekend, so no tourney for me. Pity, that.

That aside, after three days of tutorials I feel I've got a hang for the basics. I should get around to joining the corp after my trip.

Silverraptor

2013-04-18, 08:10 PM

Well, I might as well let you guys know I play this game and have been for about a year straight now. I already have a corp with some friends and were in the process in moving out to null sec. However, I'm industry based and I'm starting to have the ability to make tech 2 ships and I'm willing to help sell and supply any fellow playgrounders anything they want or need at a discount. If you guys have group chat channel, I would like to be invited to it.

Pilot name: Silver Davis

Edit: Also, since I'm minmatar, I think this is highly appropriate.

A wise man once said that "Flying Minmatar is like riding an armchair down a flight of wiliest stairs firing an uzi."

He's quite correct. Except that he forgot to entail that said armchair must be covered in rust, preferably have a wingy bit or two, and most importantly; one uzi is nowhere near sufficient. Gonna need 5 or 6. Just strap 'em on somewhere with belts of ammunition, if they fall off, **** it. They were out of ammo anyhow.

Also, that little stream behind my ship. "It's the Ion stream from your propulsion exhaust ports." **** you. It's empty shell casings and unburnt raw petrol from the half dozen V8 diesels running this heap. Get it right.

Tychris1

2013-04-18, 09:27 PM

Silverraptor

2013-04-18, 09:30 PM

That reminds me!

Pilot Name: Lamianos Angelos

Anyway, i'm considering it Silver, a slightly cheaper drake would be pretty good (Or even a Night Hawk, although apparently they are equal to if not worse then Drakes in the pvp department).

What a coincidence, I have a BPC for a drake.

Also, for everyone else in Gitp, if you really want any ship or anything, let me know. I'll find a BPC, give you a time estimate, and then work on it. Keep in mind that I'm playing this game by Plex to Plex, so my standard production and sale takes priority.

Tychris1

2013-04-18, 09:33 PM

Why that sounds pretty good! If it isn't too much of a hassle I would appreciate it. I have 1.7 mill of the average 2 mill I see it go for, I can probably scrounge up another 100k in a jiffy if you want (Flying around in my noob ship doing low level missions). I can wait, really thinking it over i'd prefer to watch the duels/royale on saturday anyway.

Silverraptor

2013-04-18, 09:45 PM

Tychris1

2013-04-18, 09:53 PM

Hmmmm? 50 mill? Hold on....... all these Caldari ships look exactly the same; Giant flying bricks in dark colors. Pretty cool at first, but I can't differentiate them all too well.

Silverraptor

2013-04-18, 09:55 PM

Hmmmm? 50 mill? Hold on....... all these Caldari ships look exactly the same; Giant flying bricks in dark colors. Pretty cool at first, but I can't differentiate them all too well.

Tell me what kind of ship you want and I can look it up based on description. Like is it a frigate, destroyer, crusier, BC, or BS?

Erloas

2013-04-18, 10:07 PM

Given the price I think only destroyers fit the bill. Although even 1.7m is a lot for destroyers, but cruisers I think are more in the 8m+ range. And if someone only has 1.7m Isk, I couldn't see it being more then a destroyer.

I'm Erloas on Eve too.

Silverraptor

2013-04-18, 10:21 PM

So, a Corax or a Cormorant? The former focuses on missiles and rockets while the latter on hybrid turrets.

Tychris1

2013-04-18, 10:43 PM

THAT WAS IT! Corax! Something with a really cool name that was actually pretty decent! That makes alot more sense now. Yeah, the Corax. I'm a fan of missiles (And my old cormorant was a hunk of junk that ended up getting scrapped in null sec space anyway). Corax corax corax.

Venetian Mask

2013-04-18, 10:45 PM

I pointed him to the Corax (it's a decent boat for first and some 2nd level missions). So probably the Corax.

Silverraptor

2013-04-18, 11:03 PM

Alright, I'll see about getting it. Can you put this policy of mine in the OP?

"The price of any discounted ship or equipment you want me to make for you is the highest buyer price in the market cut in half. I do this since buyer price is usually cheaper then the sellers price, and gives me a good general discount price line to give you guys. If there is no buyer price, then some private negotiations will need to be had."

Erloas

2013-04-18, 11:15 PM

Silverraptor

2013-04-18, 11:17 PM

Aren't you building at a loss that way though?
I would think the most practical way would be some small % over mineral cost. Little bit tricker with T2 ships, but component costs can be figured.
Selling a destroyers at a loss is not a big deal, but for most other things that can add up quickly.

That's why I say my other means of production take priority. My friends and I have made the corp I'm in with the concept of, "Oh hey friend, you blew up your ship? Well here, have another one." I'm in no rush to strike it rich, just as long as I make enough for my next plex each month.

Brother Oni

2013-04-19, 02:24 AM

That reminds me!

Pilot Name: Lamianos Angelos

Anyway, i'm considering it Silver, a slightly cheaper drake would be pretty good (Or even a Night Hawk, although apparently they are equal to if not worse then Drakes in the pvp department).

The Nighthawk is a Command Ship and takes considerably more training than a Drake.
I also seriously doubt they're worse performance wise than a Drake in PVP - cost effectiveness is a different issue.

That said, if you're not fitting a Warfare Link Module, then you should be flying a Drake.

The Succubus

2013-04-19, 05:02 AM

All tech II ships have inherently better resists and therefore more ehp than their tech I counterparts. They also often have more fitting slots and drone space.

It terms of survivability, yes, a Nighthawk will be better but in terms of damage, that's a considerably more complex question.

Brother Oni

2013-04-19, 06:29 AM

It terms of survivability, yes, a Nighthawk will be better but in terms of damage, that's a considerably more complex question.

Agreed, especially since a NH has a 25% ROF bonus inherent since you need BC5 to even get into the thing, giving it effectively 7.25 launchers to the Drake's 7.

illyrus

2013-04-19, 07:34 AM

On Nighthawks in PvP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=six5kCxjQSA&t=1m46s

As a note I do not endorse this guy's opinions.

Janwin

2013-04-19, 08:55 AM

The price of any discounted ship or equipment you want me to make for you is the highest buyer price in the market cut in half. ... If there is no buyer price, then some private negotiations will need to be had."

Half price, eh?

WTB Erebus - 50b

Silverraptor

2013-04-19, 09:56 AM

Half price, eh?

WTB Erebus - 50b

Hahaha. Your funny.

Maybe I should modify it to battleship sized ships and smaller.

Janwin

2013-04-19, 10:23 AM

Was worth a try. :smallwink: :smallbiggrin:

Silverraptor

2013-04-19, 10:30 AM

Was worth a try. :smallwink: :smallbiggrin:

If I were to make a capital, you'll have to get in line. Between the Naglfar that I want to build myself, and the Aeon that my friend is acquiring all the BPCs and material for it himself, but just needs my skills to make it, you're looking at a loooooooong time of waiting.

Janwin

2013-04-19, 10:40 AM

>.> I'd just use my industry char to make it myself.

Silverraptor

2013-04-19, 10:41 AM

>.> I'd just use my industry char to make it myself.

Good, glad we came to an agreement. However, I'd be willing to help your character acquire the material.

Folytopo

2013-04-19, 06:14 PM

I will not be able to participate in the tournament. I have already booked that slot of time.

Guancyto

2013-04-19, 06:31 PM

Huh.

In truth, I'd kind of be a sucker to not take advantage of that offer.

Sign me up for a Maelstrom, if that's on the table.

Silverraptor

2013-04-19, 06:53 PM

Huh.

In truth, I'd kind of be a sucker to not take advantage of that offer.

Sign me up for a Maelstrom, if that's on the table.

Oh, I have a Maelstrom BPC. However, its currently used for collateral from a 600 mil loan. I'm working on trying to get the isk to get it back, but with buying plexes, it hasn't been easy.

Now if you want a tempest, I have plenty of BPC runs of those easy.

Venetian Mask

2013-04-19, 09:58 PM

Hahaha. Your funny.

Maybe I should modify it to battleship sized ships and smaller.

Battleship sized or smaller, eh? Deal:

I'd like a Raven Fleet Issue @ 190B (Last sold for 380B so the going price would be 190B)

Please have a contract up in the following week :smallamused:

Silverraptor

2013-04-19, 10:20 PM

Battleship sized or smaller, eh? Deal:

I'd like a Raven Fleet Issue @ 190B (Last sold for 380B so the going price would be 190B)

Please have a contract up in the following week :smallamused:

You are all terrible and should feel bad.

illyrus

2013-04-19, 10:30 PM

So reasonably speaking is something in the sleipnir range doable or should it be more in the prophecy range of ships?

Silverraptor

2013-04-19, 10:59 PM

So reasonably speaking is something in the sleipnir range doable or should it be more in the prophecy range of ships?

Well I am starting to be able to make tech 2s. Just be advised that the more complicated the ship, the longer the wait.

Guancyto

2013-04-19, 11:16 PM

I can procure a Maelstrom BPC for you without much trouble (saw a few ME30/PE10 ones going for 600k per run, they'll probably still be there in the morning). What system do you want it dropped off in?

Silverraptor

2013-04-19, 11:25 PM

Erloas

2013-04-20, 08:39 AM

I thought Teonusude sounded familiar, that was the system I had picked to live in before I joined the corp I'm in now. I've since moved most of my equipment away from there but I still have a jump clone stuck there and about half a dozen ships that didn't seem worth the time it would take to move them, and also as a backup in case things went to crap in 0.0 and I needed a place to restart from.

The Succubus

2013-04-20, 12:37 PM

Hmmm...not seeing many folks online. Are people still interested in running this, or should I postpone it a week?

Oh, my player name is Anyura and I advise those that want to follow this frig tourney thing to join GITS.Public.

Silverraptor

2013-04-20, 12:51 PM

Is there any other channel you guys have made? Or is that the channel for all Gitpers to hang out in?

The Succubus

2013-04-20, 01:04 PM

I think most of us dwell in there. I know there's a few folks that can't make it this week.

The Succubus

2013-04-20, 01:27 PM

Judging by the relative quietness of the GITS channel, I'm going to postpone the tourney to next weekend, probably the Sunday. Can I get a show of hands for what sort of time people would prefer?

Silverraptor

2013-04-20, 01:41 PM

To whoever I said to drop off the Maelstrom BPC at Jita, DON'T! Goon is burning Jita again and is shoot everyone in the skies there. Just wait it out until they stop.

Guancyto

2013-04-20, 03:50 PM

Hmm.

Are they burning the salvagers too? :smallwink:

Erloas

2013-04-20, 04:22 PM

They will shoot anything and everything in space. The best you can hope for is either a fast ship and try some ninja looting, or just get close and wait until they leave and see what you can get before it disappears.
I wouldn't be surprised if they have their own salvager alts out though.

Grim Portent

2013-04-20, 04:52 PM

Can anyone tell me how the Ishkur performs as an assault ship?

Crow

2013-04-20, 06:25 PM

Can anyone tell me how the Ishkur performs as an assault ship?

All of the assault ships perform pretty well for what they are set up to do.

Beowulf DW

2013-04-20, 08:52 PM

To whoever I said to drop off the Maelstrom BPC at Jita, DON'T! Goon is burning Jita again and is shoot everyone in the skies there. Just wait it out until they stop.

I don't actually play EVE, myself. I just watch from the sidelines and read stuff on Kugu and TheMittani. I saw the article they had on the new Burn Jita thing. Apparently, they're hoping that with less fanfare than last time, they'll get more kills.

Folytopo

2013-04-21, 04:35 PM

So are there any times people want to do fleet stuff?

Venetian Mask

2013-04-29, 02:37 AM

Sorry folks, with the forums going down and me having to do other things (study and play Elder Kings mostly :smallamused:) I didn't have much time for EVE. I'll be back up for shenanigans either today or tomorrow. In the meantime I've set up a jabber client (only need to go through the final admin setup). I can not guarantee that I'll always be on EVE, but I will idle in jabber when available, so always feel free to ping me there.

I'll post the information for the server here in an hour or so when I've done the setup.

Silverraptor

2013-04-29, 02:44 AM

For those of you who are new or don't quite know what the story behind eve is, CCP just released a video explaining everything and its really well done! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZPCiqBLPM8):smallbiggrin:

Venetian Mask

2013-04-29, 02:46 AM

Every CCP video ever has been really well done. If EVE ever fails they should go produce feature length films.

The Succubus

2013-04-29, 03:31 AM

Ugh - lost a Prophecy yesterday to the same <expletive deleted> that podded me before. I could have probably taken his Caracal if that frigging Tornado hadn't shown up as well. -.-

I think I'll just stay out of low sec for a while, until I'm making money again.

Astrella

2013-04-29, 04:58 AM

Yeah, I got podded myself when getting back from installing a blueprint for research in null sec. I should have known better, decided to take a longer route back that lead me through more of high sec, but one of the systems in that one is often being bubbled. So choosing the safer path was actually more risky. >.>

Oh well, it actually got me home quicker cause I was flying a Reaper without anything in it and had no note worthy implants.

I have a question now though, what's the cheapest way to get a stealth capable ship? Doesn't need to be able to transport anything beyond blueprints. And is stealth enough to ensure that getting caught into an interdictor bubble won't get me killed? Basically I'm looking for something that can safely get me into nullsec with small transporting capabilities. (Cause researching in high sec is just awful with how long the queues are. At least null sec has open slots.)

-----

Another question as well; I was looking at old null sec maps cause I was reading about the Goonswarm - BoB war, and I noticed that even back then the Great Wildlands weren't claimed. Is there any reason why they're not claimed by anyone?

The Succubus

2013-04-29, 06:18 AM

Cheapest stealth ship would be a Covert Ops - it's a tech II scanning frigate, with a cargo hold of ~150m3. Hulls are around 20mil, cov-ops cloak is around 5 mil.

Janwin

2013-04-29, 08:45 AM

I have a question now though, what's the cheapest way to get a stealth capable ship? Doesn't need to be able to transport anything beyond blueprints. And is stealth enough to ensure that getting caught into an interdictor bubble won't get me killed? Basically I'm looking for something that can safely get me into nullsec with small transporting capabilities.

I'm going to use the mantra of Chinese food here:

Cloak
Cheap
Bubble safe

Pick two.

Basically, if you're looking for cheap and cloak, you can use a stealth bomber or a covert ops ship. Fit an MWD and a cloak. When you jump into a bubble/gate camp, double click in a random direction (out of the bubble), pulse your MWD, and immediately cloak. Once you're out of the bubble, align and warp. The point of the random direction and MWD is that you want to be anywhere except where you showed up when a ceptor tries to drop your cloak.

If you want cheap and bubble safe, you can go with an interceptor. MWD yourself out of the bubble away from anyone, and as long as you pick the fastest ceptor available and prop mod it to hell and back, you can outrun anything that tries to catch you. You should be out of web range and scram before they can lock you.

If you want cloak and bubble safe, you're looking at a T3 cruiser. With interdiction nullifier and covert ops configuration and cloak, you have very little to fear from bubbles or gate camps in 0.0.

The Succubus

2013-04-29, 08:53 AM

I believe Lena is still a little while away from being able to fly a T3.

Hell, I'm still a little while away from being able to fly a T3. :smalleek:

Janwin

2013-04-29, 09:36 AM

I'm aware of it. Just pointing out that it's the safest (by far) method of flying around 0.0 if you're worried at all about gate camps/bubbles. :smallbiggrin:

The other ships CAN do it, but you also run the risk of your enemy being a little bit faster than you and you getting caught anyway.

Folytopo

2013-04-30, 05:09 PM

So is the jabber server up?

Venetian Mask

2013-04-30, 06:05 PM

It is, under giantinthesandbox.com

You'll want to use service discovery on public.giantintheplayground.com right now it's kind of empty though because I caught a bad case of the sleep.

Erloas

2013-04-30, 11:50 PM

Have you guys read the last set of DevBlogs? (http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/resource-shakeup-blog/)
There are quite a few changes coming up that should have some pretty big impact.
Changes in moon mining as well as T2 production.
Changes to mining and ice mining. Including a large increase in pyrite and trit in the high end 0.0 asteroids. Ice belts disappear and become (it seems smaller) anomalies instead, as well as halving the mine cycle times for ice harvesting.
Outposts get a lot more slots for everything.
And nulsec anomalies get a bit more dangerous with elite frigates.

Silverraptor

2013-04-30, 11:55 PM

Oh yeah, saw that a few days ago. Sorry should have made note of it.

The Succubus

2013-05-01, 04:53 AM

SlyGuyMcFly

2013-05-01, 05:08 AM

Venetian Mask

2013-05-01, 05:51 AM

If one wanted to suicide gank a T3 in high sec, how would one go about doing so....?

You'll need 3-7 friends all in thrashers, pick the ammo that aims for its resist hole (depends in the rats in the area) and all open fire at the same time (keep him webbed and scrammed too).

It's a pretty good way of making ISK as well, highsec tengus usually have upwards of a billion isk in faction mods. Your 20-30M ISK fleet just got you a reward in the hundreds of millions of isk or even in the billions.:smallamused:

Oscaver

2013-05-01, 06:00 AM

I do beleive that by registering on gits forums it means to post a reply to it. As such, I am informing you that I am considering applying for the corporation.

illyrus

2013-05-01, 08:10 AM

If you're willing to hit the tengu as after they jump through a gate (and thus all their mods are off) a single tornado with artillery will do it too.

That or just run the site in a non-pricey ship that can kill a ratting tengu and "steal" the loot at the end (after checking their killboard to see if that's exactly what they're expecting you to do or not).

If you feel reasonably sure the tengu is going to be using a particular damage type this can be pretty easy. A single kinetic hardener and if you're armor tanking a reactive armor hardener on top of that will drop their dps on you to that of a child swinging a pillow. A neut or two will probably take care of their tank if they're active and riding that cap line like so many people do.

Borgh

2013-05-01, 08:33 AM

I read those. I'm not sure what half of the stuff means, but I gather it adds up to "interesting times"?

quite, quite intersting times.

the redistribution of technetiium is a huge deal. Goonswarm relies on its near-monopoly of tech to fund most of its war efforts (space communism as they call it) so if they don't want to empty their warchest they'll have to find alternative ways of making isk or limit the reimbursements.

The people in alliances responsible for probing moons have been crying ever that got released. I know, I'm one. Come June a dozen guys per alliance will have to scan about 10.000 moons.

Ice goin into anomalies is another huge deal. It will become harder to mine ice and as such it will become less bot-heaven. this will limit supplies of fuel for capital ships and posses, making both more expensive to use. Nullsec empires might have to institute icemining ops (gasp!) to continue their stuff.

The addition of trit and pyerite to the ABC ores will make them vastly more usefull to mine. Add to this the boost to null stations industry will have shift more and more into nullsec itself, wich is awesome.

Erloas

2013-05-01, 10:16 AM

I was tengu'd last night and greatly displeased as a result. :smallannoyed:

tengu(v): To find an combat exploration site and to commence clearing of it, only to have some some jerk in a T3 cruiser come along and steal the faction spawn at the end. Verb stems from the most popular cruiser used in this activity.

If one wanted to suicide gank a T3 in high sec, how would one go about doing so....?
Couldn't you just steal the loot from the dead rat and call it good? That would of course also flag you allowing the cruiser to attack you freely, but it also means you could fight back without having to worry about Concord. Of course 1 of 2 things would most likely happen, either they know they can take you and just kill you (or not, chances are they aren't running a warp scrambler unless they are baiting you and I would imagine without one most PvE ships can tank long enough to get to warp) or they know they can't and don't bother attacking (which isn't necessarily a problem).

I read those. I'm not sure what half of the stuff means, but I gather it adds up to "interesting times"?
I don't specifically know either, but as Borgh said, it will clearly have some impact.
Reducing the availability of ice in high-sec will have a major impact on its price. It was implied that right now high-sec ice fields can supply more ice then is currently being consumed across the entire server. A lot of null-sec groups mine their own ice because it is risky to run it through low-sec, but a lot also buy it from high-sec as well. By making it more expensive it makes it more risky to move as well as making POSs and jump-capable ships more expensive to run. They are limited high-sec ice fields to not produce more then 80% of the total ice used (at least currently), so ice *has* to come from null-sec as well.
That along with the changes to high-end ores in null sec to make them more profitable should increase the rewards for mining in null sec. I'm not sure how much of an impact it will have, but the increase of tritanium and pyerite on high end ores seems like they are "very big" increases which should drive down the price of those minerals. Seeing as how those two are the most common minerals in the game it could drive down the price of every item in the game. I also think that now null-sec ores are going to be the most productive sources for trianium, pyerite, mexallon, and isogen; which are currently all most productive in high-sec ores, which will make high-sec mining less profitable. Which should decrease the influence and profit of botting.
That combined with the increase in research and production slots in outposts are all designed to make industrialists more appealing to null-sec alliances as well as making null-sec more appealing and potentially lucrative to industrialists as well. In theory this will weaken "combat only" alliances and strengthen "mixed" alliances, and in the process increase the number of potential targets in null sec.

I don't know much about the moon mining but from what I gather the "most needed" components from moon mining happened to be concentrated in a relatively small section of space. This will make other areas of moon mining more profitable as well as breaking the monopoly of those currently limited areas. It also sounded like a lot of the t2 production of race specific ships and modules are moving to race specific resources that come from moons only in the areas around those races' territory.
Which, if I'm following everything correctly, will mean the costs of t2 ships and modules from each race will be able to separate more because they are using different resources which might make the most used ones more expensive and the least used cheaper.

And for example, it would also mean t2 production of Minmatar ships in Amarr space would be harder because materials would have to be moved long distances across the universe. So you might see alliances specializing more in whichever race's ships and modules are cheaper and easier for them to produce which should diversify which ships "everyone is running." It would also make industrialists that focus more on logistics (as in moving goods rather then the Logistics ships) more profitable.

edit: So I decided to run the numbers on the ores to see how they changed. I was a bit surprised when I found an ore calculator from 2007 that had the old "average" mineral values and the lower value minerals are 2-8x more valuable then they were then but the high end ones are close to half the value. The best ore for each mineral hasn't changed but the high end ores' supply of lower end minerals have gotten a lot closer.
{table]||old value|new value|5.13|12.03|41.62|127.48|810|915|2465|7737
Ore|m3|isk/m3||Tri|Pye|Mex|Iso|Noc|Zyd|Meg|Mor
Veldspar|33.3|154.05|154.05|1000|0|0|0|0|0|0|0
Scordite|49.95|185.74|185.74|833|416|0|0|0|0|0|0
Pyroxeres|99.9|189.63|189.63|844|59|120|0|11|0|0|0
Plagioclase|116.55|155.53|155.53|256|512|256|0|0|0 |0|0
Omber|300|140.64|140.64|307|123|0|307|0|0|0|0
Kernite|480|173.67|173.67|386|0|773|386|0|0|0|0
Jaspet|1000|243.11|243.11|259|259|518|0|259|8|0|0
Hemorphite|1500|264.78|264.78|212|0|0|212|424|28|0 |0
Hedbergite|1500|270.85|270.85|0|0|0|708|354|32|0|0
Gneiss|2000|104.09|209.34|3700|0|3700|700|0|171|0| 0
Dark Ochre|3200|198.45|238.93|25500|0|0|0|500|250|0|0
Crokite|4000|219.11|267.42|38000|0|0|0|331|663|0|0
Spodumain|4000|87.59|204.40|71000|9000|0|0|0|0|140 |0
Bistot|3200|229.10|273.57|0|12000|0|0|0|341|170|0
Arkanor|3200|304.46|320.01|10000|0|0|0|0|166|333|0
Mercoxit|10000|410.06|410.06|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|530
[/table]
So Geniss and Spodumain pretty much double in price other changes not too bad. All of the high sec ores are now worth less then the null-sec ores but some of the low-sec ores are still worth more. In some cases the cost difference between high and low sec ores might not make it that much more worth the risk.

Silverraptor

2013-05-01, 11:26 AM

Folytopo

2013-05-01, 05:55 PM

How hard is it to secure a moon? How many people do you need?

Silverraptor

2013-05-01, 06:10 PM

<-------Question

O: My Head

NEO|Phyte

2013-05-01, 06:27 PM

Not an expert on moons, but I suspect the difficulty in claiming/holding one depends a lot on how valuable the moon is, and how much effort its current owners have put into securing it.

illyrus

2013-05-01, 08:03 PM

If the moon will make you big bucks through moon mining, then very hard. If you just want a POS and don't care about moon mining at all, then very easy.

C1 WHs with HS "statics" are very popular for doing alchemy reactions in, you can't bring battleships or caps through any connections to the C1 so a POS is a real pain to blow up. Some groups will setup 20 POSes and make billions of ISK of profit a week just running alchemical reactions and go largely untouched by enemies.

Astrella

2013-05-02, 07:49 AM

Does anyone have any advice on good (beginner) Cruisers for mostly PvE-related activities? Doesn't really matter which faction they're from.

Janwin

2013-05-02, 08:42 AM

It sort of depends on where your skills lie and what PVE-related activity you're planning.

I'm going to guess missions...

For PVE/missions, a shield tank is considerably better than an armor tank. This is because your tank will fit on mid slots which aren't needed for EWAR, leaving your low slots open for weapon upgrade modules.

If you are doing an armor tank, though, you can still pull off a good fit, and make it very cap stable.

Without knowing what you're planning to kill, though, it makes it a little hard to determine which ship is best for your purposes. Races having different resists and such.

The Succubus

2013-05-02, 09:56 AM

Minmatar, I suspect, as that's where our little hideyhole is. So Mostly Angels, with the occasional Amarr/Caldari NPCs.

Guancyto

2013-05-02, 01:36 PM

For Minmatar Cruisers and missioning, it's hard to beat the Rupture. Double damage bonuses, a nice complement of turrets, enough dronebay for a full wing of light drones, the slots to be either shield or armor tanked.

Slower than the Stabber but so much more firepower and durability.

The various medium projectile turret-related skills will also help you move up to the Hurricane, which is also a mission boat par excellence.

Janwin

2013-05-02, 02:36 PM

Alright, here are a few cruiser fits that would do you pretty well against Angels... I'm going to ignore the Amarr/Caldari ones for now, since they do completely different damage from Angels (Angels are Ex/Kin while Amarr are EM/Therm and Caldari are Kin/Therm).

Stabber Fleet Issue:
467 dps, 840 m/s, 100 ehp/s sustained, 155 ehp/s max, 35933 ehp
12.5% EM | 30% Therm | 63.3% Kin | 80.3% Exp

[Stabber Fleet Issue, PVE]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Photonic CPU Enhancer I

10MN Afterburner II
Medium Shield Booster II
Explosive Deflection Field II
Large Shield Extender II

425mm AutoCannon II, Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Fusion M

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Valkyrie II x3
Warrior II x2

Moa:
506 dps, 587 m/s, 122 ehp/s sustained, 291 ehp/s max, 82269 ehp
54.1% EM | 63.2% Therm | 79.6% Kin | 89.1% Exp

[Moa, PVE]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

10MN Afterburner II
Medium Shield Booster II
Explosive Deflection Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Warrior II x3

Rupture:
469 dps, 649 m/s, 94 ehp/s sustained, 147 ehp/s max, 28801 ehp
12.5% EM | 30% Therm | 63.3% Kin | 80.3% Exp

[Rupture, PVE]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

10MN Afterburner II
Medium Shield Booster II
Explosive Deflection Field II
Large Shield Extender II

425mm AutoCannon II, Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Fusion M
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Nova Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Warrior II x5

Erloas

2013-05-02, 03:42 PM

While those are t1 cruisers, I would hardly call any of them good for a beginner since they are all full of T2 modules. Also the shield booster and shield extenders seem like an odd combination because I didn't think the buffer style of tanking was ever used in PvE and there isn't enough for a passive tank. I would think the rat specific hardener would be a more practical fit.
Of course the general build is fine, just specifics that I would tweak to skills and the specific goal.

Although it has been a long time since I've flown lower level PvE, I found the destroyer to be more fun but just about as good as a cruiser. It depends exactly what is being done and to some extent the longer term plans and which ship fit into that better. IE moving up in size or working towards a specific specialization.

It would be nice to know some more specifics, seeing as how PvE could include exploration, or all sorts of other things.

I'm at a bit of a lull and trying to figure out what I want to do. Old corp has went into hibernation, not that I was doing a lot with them either. I'm vaguely looking at high-sec mining simply because I can log on and do it for short periods of time and not have to worry about whether or not some cloaked afker is camping the system 24/7. Could run missions again for a while, not the most fun but fairly compartmentalized and makes some money, but some can run long for the time I have.
Wouldn't mind joining another more active group in null sec, but so far I just haven't had (or at least made) the time to take part in group PvP. Some of that might be because our old alliance was more defensive and the few times I had the time to join nothing really happened. Pirating might be worth giving a shot, but not really sure, low-sec is already so cut-throat that everyone is already paranoid so it would probably be a lot of time searching with only a little bit of time finding anyone.
Was thinking about maybe checking out some of the exploration things like WHs, gas harvesting, code breaking, archeology and salvaging. Don't really know much about those yet.

So what is the at least mid-term goals of the GITS corp going to be? Wasn't really clear.

Borgh

2013-05-02, 03:54 PM

How hard is it to secure a moon? How many people do you need?

You'll really have to pick your location carefully because while anchoring a tower is a minor effort the local nobility might not take kindly to you pitching a tent on your lawn. If you do it wrong you'll find out that a tower will die to a dread-driveby. If you do it very wrong you'll have three hundred battleships baying for your blood.

Edit: I always forget about highsec. No idea really but it'll be slower and there usually won't be anyone claiming a system.

Astrella

2013-05-02, 03:55 PM

The Cruiser would be for running Lvl 2 missions and doing exploring mostly, probably a bit more slanted towards exploring since that's what me and a couple of friends have been doing recently. Some of the sites are just though when it's just me and our scanner sometimes.

SlyGuyMcFly

2013-05-02, 04:33 PM

Speaking of exploration, I've tried my hand at that, but after going through a half-dozen of basically empty .5 and .6 systems, I came up with zilch. Is this a case of "keep looking" or a case of "you're looking in the wrong places"?

Guancyto

2013-05-02, 05:19 PM

Yeah, a Large Extender/Medium Booster combo is kind of weird. For PvE anyway you either want just a shield booster for active boosting (possibly with cap modules) or an extender in combination with modules/rigs that increase shield recharge rate for passive regeneration. Projectile and missile ships are particularly good for passive shield tanking since their guns don't take any cap, so you can fit Shield Power Relays without too much trouble.

In either case you'll want to fit hardeners. An Adaptive Invulnerability Field plus the explosive hardener would work pretty well since Angels do a bit more than explosive damage.

Toss in an Anti-EM shield rig (shield resist rigs are super cheap) if you think you'll ever fight Bloods or Sansha in it. Then swap the explosive/omni hardeners out for kin/therm hardeners against serpentis/guristas/mercenaries and call it golden.

Janwin

2013-05-02, 05:38 PM

Ultimately, the premise behind the extender and booster:

Passive tank is always nice to have, which expands with more shield.
A buffer if you end up taking more than you think you're going to is nice to have as well.

Yeah, the T2 modules probably weren't the best for a new player, but they can downgrade and the premise remains the same.

Guancyto

2013-05-02, 06:12 PM

I don't really know about the Moa because I don't fly Caldari, but.

The Stabber Fleet Issue is a great cruiser, but it's 50 million for the hull, more than a lot of battlecruisers. Not a 'newbie doing level 2s' ship by any stretch of the imagination.

Also, autocannons look great on paper (and they are really great for what they do), but putting them on the Ruppy for missioning is going to slow down your mission time a lot for anybody but Angels (even them a fair bit), because the ship isn't that fast and it'll have to close in on every ship to engage at autocannon range. It needs to have the range that artillery provides to be able to effectively clear rooms. Autos are a good choice if you're just doing Angel missions because those guys love to orbit insanely close, but I don't think he's looking for an exclusively anti-Angel cruiser.

You also have Field Extender rigs, which cost about 70% of what the hull did for not a whole lot of gain (you already have a 'save your bacon when everything is FUBAR' module, it's the damage control). For the same price, put Purger rigs on it and go for a beefy passive shield tank.

Janwin

2013-05-03, 08:39 AM

To be honest, I pretty much exclusively rat in bigger ships, and don't do missions except ones where it's high enough to bring bigger ships...soooo... My cruisers may well suck.

Also, yes, the ACs were for Angels. I did say...

I'm going to ignore the Amarr/Caldari ones for now

...when posting the fittings. Thought that gave it away. :smallwink:

The ones I'm much more used to fitting are things like AHACs, T3s, BSes, BCs, etc. >.>

I guess maybe I'm a little out of date on high sec low level missioning...

Looked up some dps/tank requirements for various level missions. At level 2, you need 100 DPS and 100 tank. Sooooo...here are some revised fittings, using active tanking:

Thorax (Swap T2 for T1 Meta as needed):
404 dps, 735 m/s, 42 ehp/s sustained, 132 ehp/s max, 13774 ehp
38.7% EM | 51% Therm | 63.3% Kin | 85.4% Exp
This one uses rails, which gives you the range benefit, while still doing plenty of damage. If you're fighting something other than Angels, swap the Explosive hardener to whatever primary damage type they do (ie: if fighting Amarr, EM hardener). I've gotten rid of the shield rigs (particularly the damage type) as you don't want to be swapping that around all the time.

[Thorax, Missions]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Co-Processor I

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Medium Shield Booster II
Explosive Deflection Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Valkyrie II x5

Rupture (Swap T2 for T1 Meta as needed):
358 dps, 623 m/s, 100 ehp/s sustained, 136 ehp/s max, 15223 ehp
38.7% EM | 51% Therm | 63.3% Kin | 85.4% Exp
Using artillery, it follows the same premise as the Thorax above. With slightly less damage, this may well be the better fit overall as it does the damage types Angels are weak against, and can swap ammo as needed for other rats. The same premise on the hardener. This fit also has room for a probe launcher since you say you want to do exploration, meaning you can still do it even if you don't have a second probing ship around. If you have a prober already, swap the probe launcher for an arbalest heavy missile launcher and add a little more dps.

[Rupture, Missions]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Medium Shield Booster II
Explosive Deflection Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Fusion M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Fusion M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Fusion M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Fusion M
Core Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Warrior II x5

And one for passive tanking, if you prefer that.

Vexor (Mini-Ishtar) (Swap T2 for T1 Meta as needed):
343 dps, 627 m/s, 98 ehp/s sustained, 98 ehp/s max, 15280 ehp
38.7% EM | 51% Therm | 63.3% Kin | 85.4% Exp
This one is basically a miniature ratting Ishtar. It uses a purely passive tank, drones and railguns. If you need a probe, you can swap out a railgun for a probe launcher as needed. Same concept on the hardener: swap for whatever the primary damage of what you're fighting is. Also, swap your drones for whatever the primary weakness of your enemy is. This is, however, one where you want as many of those modules to be Tech II as possible, as swapping to Tech I can significantly affect your ability to tank incoming damage.

[Vexor, Mini Ishtar]
Damage Control II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Explosive Deflection Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Shield Recharger II

250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M

Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I

Valkyrie II x5
Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x5

Erloas

2013-05-03, 11:32 AM

So one issue with a game that has been around so long but is still being regularly and extensively updated is that it seems very easy to find guides that were written 4-5 years ago that is hard to tell how much has changed since then. I can recognize that some things have changed, but if I'm looking for a guide then I obviously don't know too much about the specifics.

Wasn't there a ship that had a bonus of being completely ignored by sleepers? Either it was an old bonus that is gone now, a new bonus that doesn't show up on some of the wikis (the official wiki is outdated in a lot of places), or I'm remembering incorrectly.

The Ore frigate is the only one with a gas harvesting bonus right?

NEO|Phyte

2013-05-03, 11:37 AM

Wasn't there a ship that had a bonus of being completely ignored by sleepers? Either it was an old bonus that is gone now, a new bonus that doesn't show up on some of the wikis (the official wiki is outdated in a lot of places), or I'm remembering incorrectly.

The zephyr (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Zephyr).

Teln

2013-05-04, 04:28 AM

Brother Oni

2013-05-04, 04:36 AM

Star Trek Online has gone offline for the second time in as many days, so I'm thinking about cashing in my 30-day free trial for EVE. In case I decide to take the plunge, do any of you have advice for a newbie capsuleer?

1: Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

2: Seriously, don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

3: Do the tutorial, all of it. Not only does it teach you all the mechanics you need to know (the EVE UI can be somewhat unfriendly at times), the tutorial gives you a nice pot of starting ships and modules, it's the only time the game holds you by the hand, before kicking you headfirst off the cliff (http://mmoreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/LearningCurve1.jpg).

4: If it looks too good to be true, it probably is and hot flamy death awaits you, followed by your corpse being stuffed and mounted on some pirate's wall somewhere.

Erloas

2013-05-04, 08:51 AM

The zephyr (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Zephyr).I did find it a bit after posting. I had originally thought it was a trait of the t2 exploration frigates because it does look a bit like a Vigil and a quick glance. Oh well, doesn't really help me.

Star Trek Online has gone offline for the second time in as many days, so I'm thinking about cashing in my 30-day free trial for EVE. In case I decide to take the plunge, do any of you have advice for a newbie capsuleer?
Beyond the "don't fly what you can't afford to loose" the main thing about EVE is that it doesn't tell you what to do so don't expect it to. I haven't done the tutorial (it didn't exist when I started) to say what all it covers, but it will be giving you options but not everything you can do.
Early on the key to being productive is specializing. A lot of new players get stuck in the skill point trap, the huge variety of skills to train and their associated time. For example, don't worry that it will take a year to fly a carrier, if you are interest in carriers then learn and fly the low end drone ships, get used to them and have fun, you can worry about the carrier specifically later. Don't try to do everything and do what you enjoy not what "seems like the easiest way to make ISK." If mining is boring to you don't spend your time training it just because it seems like easy money because there are almost limitless ways to make money so find one that you do enjoy even if it might be a little slower.
And you will loose ships sooner or later, so don't get too attached to any one, just buy a new one and start going again.

And come back later and ask more questions as you get them, there is a lot to learn.

Silverraptor

2013-05-04, 11:30 AM

Teln

2013-05-04, 02:11 PM

Silverraptor

2013-05-04, 06:01 PM

Thanks for the advice you guys've given so far, it's certainly been helpful. Another question: Roughly how long does it normally take for a new player to be able to start buying subscription time with ISK instead of real money? Is this even a realistic option for most players?

Well, I started to be able to buy my subscription with isk money after about 7 months. Of course, I was doing it by ear at the time and only figured out how to make that much isk on my own. Depending on what you want to do, I can give you some pointers.

Brother Oni

2013-05-05, 04:29 AM

I haven't done the tutorial (it didn't exist when I started) to say what all it covers, but it will be giving you options but not everything you can do.

They had the tutorial (how to play) back in RMR when I started playing - when did you start? :smalleek:

The Succubus

2013-05-05, 04:30 AM

I started in 2010ish, back when your starting skills were decided by bloodlines.

Erloas

2013-05-05, 09:14 AM

They had the tutorial (how to play) back in RMR when I started playing - when did you start? :smalleek:

The first time, right about when WoW came out... so 2004-05. So around Exodus?
edit: starter corp: Pator Tech School 2004.11.08 13:49
I was playing DAOC and most of the people from my guild left for WOW but I didn't want to so I went to EVE instead. Played for about 8 months to a year, went to WoW for about as long, then did another 4-6 months in EVE. Started up again sometime mid last year. EVE is the only MMO I have ever left and came back to. So I have a very old character, but not necessarily a ton of skill points or personal experience.

There was some level of tutorial at that point but it wasn't very good, it basically had you talk to an agent kill one frigate, mine a little bit of ore, and that was about it. And obviously a lot of new things have been added since then, so they couldn't possibly have been in the tutorial. There also wasn't free ships or modules or skill books.

Astrella

2013-05-05, 03:59 PM

Did anyone else here check out Flight of a Thousand Rifters by any chance?

Guancyto

2013-05-05, 07:26 PM

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=17634935

Oh and I guess I got involved in killing a supercarrier too, that's something.

Flew in a Slasher, took a while shooting at the Nyx before the logi gang showed up to troll us.

Then I decided screw it, time to kill something. Blew up someone's stealth bomber before a destroyer descended on me for vengeance, took me out and podded me with the help of his buddies.

All in all a good day's work.

Silverraptor

2013-05-07, 03:00 PM

I was just linked this by a friend in EVE and thought it was so funny and so accurate.:smallbiggrin:

What scouting means in EVE. (http://i.imgur.com/JAW8Wqf.gif) (Warning: Language)

Erloas

2013-05-08, 10:00 AM

So I tried probing for the first time yesterday. I got my Cheetah and some core probes, hoped into a close by high-sec system with no stations assuming that would mean fewer players and a higher chance of something that hasn't been found. It worked, first try I found something and started to scan it down, it took a while but I found a Ladar site.
So after many attempts at getting used to moving the probes around and scanning, I managed to loose it a couple times, but eventually got it scanned down. It was rather annoying and took a while, at one point I had it to 99.99% and figured it probably had to do with having too many probes too close then lost it and ended up with 2 versions at 50%. Once I did get it then I figured I should get a Venture and get the gas clouds harvested. Of course I didn't have a venture yet and hadn't actually purchased the gas harvesting skill and had to run around and pick those things up. So after about 2-3 hours and 28m in skills and equipment I managed to harvest the entire site. Of course it was the second cheapest type of gas and will probably sell for about 5-6m, so a very poor use of my time in terms of isk but I do have a better feel for probing at least.

Considering that was the strongest signal type at 10% and I was in a Cheetah with probing bonuses I thought it would be easier and faster. Granted my skills aren't that great yet, but I thought the ship would make up for a lot of that.

Astrella

2013-05-08, 10:07 AM

Skill and practice help a lot I'm given to understand. We usually skip Ladar though, there's more money in getting escalations and just got drops of the other sites. (Especially escalations. One of our first trips we got lucky and ended up with a Daredevil Blueprint.) Low sec also has better sites.

Erloas

2013-05-08, 10:59 AM

Well yes, lower sec will have better stuff, but even in a covert-ops I didn't want to be sitting in open space for 45 minutes while I figured out how to do everything. As for harvesting the gas, I had heard gas is always valuable, but I guess that is relative. Some of the other gas types seemed to be worth closer to 25-50m even in high-sec. A quick estimate without a lot of bonuses puts a retriever making about 7m and a hulk about 10m per hour doing Veldspar without the downtime (at least before the mineral price collapse following the Odyssey announcements, not sure where they will steady out at)

Silverraptor

2013-05-08, 11:23 AM

Which 2 asteroids are getting the rework? Is Gniess one of them?:smallconfused:

Astrella

2013-05-08, 11:29 AM

Erloas

2013-05-08, 12:19 PM

Which 2 asteroids are getting the rework? Is Gniess one of them?:smallconfused:

The 6 "normal" 0.0 asteroids are all being changed some (mercoxit is the only one not changing) with all of them getting a lot more Trit and/or Pyerite, with Gniess also getting more Mex and Iso.
On page 7 is a link to the dev-blog as well as a table with the new mineral make-up of each and the new isk/m3 value of each (at least with mineral prices where they were when I posted it, just includes the new numbers, not what the changes were)

Silverraptor

2013-05-08, 12:49 PM

The 6 "normal" 0.0 asteroids are all being changed some (mercoxit is the only one not changing) with all of them getting a lot more Trit and/or Pyerite, with Gniess also getting more Mex and Iso.
On page 7 is a link to the dev-blog as well as a table with the new mineral make-up of each and the new isk/m3 value of each (at least with mineral prices where they were when I posted it, just includes the new numbers, not what the changes were)

Awesome. Hey, can you do me a favor? I'm in the middle of preparing for mid-terms right now, but can you help me update the percent of different minerals per asteroid that's being changed so I can update the chart in my bio?:smallsmile:

Erloas

2013-05-08, 01:24 PM

I'm not sure what you mean by percentage of each mineral because 1 trit is not worth (in terms of isk and production needs) nearly what 1 iso is. These are the changes as per the Dev Blog and so far I haven't heard anything about it being adjusted again since then.

Arkonor: 10000 Tritanium (+9700), 166 Zydrine, 333 Megacyte
Bistot: 12000 Pyerite (+11830), 341 Zydrine, 170 Megacyte
Crokite: 38000 Tritanium (+37669), 331 Nocxium, 663 Zydrine
Dark Ochre: 25500 Tritanium (+25250), 500 Nocxium, 250 Zydrine
Gneiss: 3700 Tritanium (+3529), 3700 Mexallon (+3529), 700 Isogen (+357), 171 Zydrine
Spodumain: 71000 Tritanium (+67810), 9000 Pyerite (+8590), 140 Megacyte

This expansion is supposed to go live around June 5th I believe, so about a month from now. It seems everyone mining in null-sec are just going to be stock piling these as much as possible until the change goes live. Of course the changes to ice have a lot more people speculating and everyone believes ice prices are going to go up and mineral prices are going to go down after the changes.

Silverraptor

2013-05-08, 01:29 PM

Janwin

2013-05-08, 01:35 PM

Erloas, for probing you want to get your skills to the point where you can drop 7 probes. Then it's easy mode.

How I probe:

Launch 7 probes. Make them all as big as possible (or as big as I need them to be to fill the system. Then arrange them with one in the middle, and then 1 in every direction (left, right, forward, back, up, down) in equal distances. I shoot for them to overlap.

As I narrow down the location of a site, I move the center probe (shift, click, drag to move all of them, I believe) on top of the icon of the site with the surrounding ones remaining as they are. I then shrink the sizes of all the probe scan ranges and move them closer to the center accordingly.

Rinse and repeat, and you'll find the site in no time at all.

Silverraptor

2013-05-08, 01:43 PM

Erloas

2013-05-09, 12:16 PM

I meant the percent of minerals you receive when you refine the asteroid. For example, in scordite you get 66% tritanium and 33% pyrite. I'll work out how much of a percent the change is with this info, but it'll take a bit first.
That is what I kind of thought you mean, but it is kind of a meaningless number. For instance the scordite you mentioned, about half its value comes from pyrite even though there is twice the tritanium because the pyrite is worth more then twice as much.
And if you take Pyroxeres it is about 81.6% trit but that is only about 30% of the value and in the end it half as much trit over time compared to scordite because the ore takes up twice as much space so you get half as much over the same period of time.
And crokite for example went from 25% trit, 25% Noc, 50% Zyd to 97.5% trit, 0.8% Noc, and 1.7% Zyd but the value of the Noc and Zyd didn't change at all and the Isk value only changed 20% even though the mineral numbers changed by 97%.

The mineral per m3 value is a much more practical chart because it takes into account the different batch and volume sizes of each different ore.
Here is that table:
{table]Ore|m3|Tri|Pye|Mex|Iso|Noc|Zyd|Meg|Mor
Veldspar|33.3|30.03|||||||
Scordite|49.95|16.67|8.33||||||
Pyroxeres|99.9|8.45|0.59|1.20||0.11|||
Plagioclase|116.55|2.20|4.39|2.20|||||
Omber|300|1.02|0.41||1.02||||
Kernite|480|0.80||1.61|0.80||||
Jaspet|1000|0.259|0.259|0.518||0.259|0.008||
Hemorphite|1500|0.14|||0.14|0.28|0.019||
Hedbergite|1500||||0.472|0.236|0.021||
Gneiss|2000|1.85||1.85|0.35||0.0855||
Dark Ochre|3200|7.97||||0.156|0.078||
Crokite|4000|9.5||||0.08275|0.16575||
Spodumain|4000|17.75|2.25|||||0.035|
Bistot|3200||3.75||||0.107|0.053|
Arkanor|3200|3.125|||||0.0518|0.104|
Mercoxit|10000||||||||0.053[/table]
Now you can get a better comparison. For instance, while Veld is still the best source for trit, but Spodumain is now just ahead of scordite. Or that Gneiss produces 1/3 the Iso as Omber for the same amount of mining, but is a close second best for getting Mex.