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DarkSonic1337
2013-03-25, 04:04 PM
I'm playing in a high power campaign and there's one thing that has been a major pain in my side.

Whenever anybody tries to use any "shadow" like spell or ability, they have to make a 45ish will save or it doesn't work and bad things happen to them (not immediately lethal, but 100% crippling in battle). The DM's idea is that eventually we'll be able to make the save reliably anyway (we're going to epic level).

I'm playing a swordsage and unfortunately found this out the hard way when I tried to use shadow jaunt. So rather than basically having 90% of the shadowhand discipline become unusable I was wondering what I could do to beef up my willsave towards the target (moment of perfect mind isn't reliably making it and I'd preffer not to have to refresh it any time I want to use a shadow hand maneuver).

Currently I'm level 18 with 16 swordsage/1 warblade/1 fighter. My buddy is a Beguiler 4/Rainbow Servant 9 (used versitile spellcaster+heighten spell for early entry) and we're in a seperate group from the other players.

I want to know what items we could buy/use to increase our willsaves. Considering my friend is about to hit Rainbow Servant 10, what spells could you also recomend some Cleric Spells that could boost saves (and other spells in general? We've both got 15 ranks in UMD)

Juntao112
2013-03-25, 04:08 PM
Why is this houserule even necessary?

DarkSonic1337
2013-03-25, 04:27 PM
Why is this houserule even necessary?

It's part of his story. There's some kind of "master of darkness" hogging all the fun and the will save is to temporarily take control of it away from him.

It just really sucks that I can't use one of the biggest things that make swordsages unique...the shadow hand school!

Juntao112
2013-03-25, 04:30 PM
I cannot think of a cleric spell that would prevent you from failing on a natural 1. So you will always have a chance that you'll be useless if you make use of your Swordsage maneuvers.

This is like forcing a fighter to stab himself, then drop his weapon, if he rolls a 1 on his attack roll. It's a terrible mechanic to which there is little recourse.

Can you change your maneuvers, or your character?

DarkSonic1337
2013-03-25, 04:38 PM
I cannot think of a cleric spell that would prevent you from failing on a natural 1. So you will always have a chance that you'll be useless if you make use of your Swordsage maneuvers.

This is like forcing a fighter to stab himself, then drop his weapon, if he rolls a 1 on his attack roll. It's a terrible mechanic to which there is little recourse.

Can you change your maneuvers, or your character?

Well I could use the swordsage's manuever retraining mechanic (I had the retraining of other manuevers planned out in my build though), but other than that I'm pretty stuck with what I have.

We're also rolling 2D10s instead of 1D20 on pretty much everything, with a 2 resulting in failure since a 1 is impossible. Still, that's only a 1/100 chance of failure and I can take more warblade levels later to grab that iron heart manuever that lets you reroll a save (as well as an item that does the same), so not all hope is lost. The biggest problem is consistently making the save, not the miniscule chance of critical failure. I'd also like to know how to boost my will save in general for a sorcerer that I'm making for the same campaign so I'd be able to use shadow conjuration/evocation for flexibility (though I may just skip out on this if I can't make the save reliably).

TaiLiu
2013-03-25, 04:46 PM
If you don't mind dipping Cleric, you could take the Pride domain for free re-rolls on Natural Ones for your saves. The Luck domain also gives out a re-roll, though it's only once per day. Alternately, you could just take the Planar Touchstone feat and obtain the domains' powers. Those should give you additional chances, if nothing else.

Juntao112
2013-03-25, 04:46 PM
Given the difficulty, I suggest you let your DM know your objections, and if he does not try to make things easier for you, simply refrain from using Shadow Hand maneuvers.

Yes, that will make it hard for you, but it's what any sane character would do if he risked taking himself out of a fight every time he tried to perform a certain action.

Other than that, I suppose the Warblade plan is a good option.

As for sorcerers, shadow spells are good, but they aren't necessary at all. I'd personally avoid them just to cut out interactions with a poorly thought out houserule.

SimonMoon6
2013-03-25, 05:02 PM
I want to know what items we could buy/use to increase our willsaves.

Cloak of Resistance?

Wis-boosting items?

A DC 45 will save is still pretty rough.

Cleric spells that boost saves:

Guidance: +1 competence bonus
Resistance: +1 resistance bonus (won't stack with cloak of resistance)
Protection from Evil: +2 resistance bonus (so, won't stack), assuming shadow guy is evil
Owl's Wisdom

Malachei
2013-03-25, 05:08 PM
If Moment of the Perfect Mind is not reliably making it, you're in trouble. Boosting your Concentration (custom item, spells, etc.) should be easier than boosting saves.

Item with Superior Resistance 1/day (Spell Compendium).

If your CHA is great, consider dipping Paladin (if it can be fluffed to fit your character)

Consider Nymph's Kiss if your DM's houserule is a spell / SLA effect.

Alter Fortune, Insight of Good Fortune and similar boosting spells. Guidance of the Avatar might be considered cheesy, but DC 45 might be considered cheesy, as well.

Urpriest
2013-03-25, 05:17 PM
Shadow Jaunt and the like are shadow-themed and (IIRC) supernatural, but they don't have the Shadow descriptor. Is your DM applying this rule to things that don't have the Shadow descriptor? Does your DM have any actual rules about what this applies to and what it doesn't?

If not, I would advise pointing out that every spell you ever see an NPC use is shadow-themed. Fireball? Light casts a shadow. Healing? Bringing someone back from the shadow of death. Etc. Your DM needs to use consistent rules if he wants to be a DM.