Capping Ability Scores

[Fortuna]

So I was thinking about the whole issue around playing a character more intelligent than you, or more charismatic than you, or whatever. A long story short, what would happen to the game if you restricted ability scores to (say) go no higher than 20?

[Re'ozul]

Pretty much everything would suffer.

In melee dexterity bonus to AC would play a lesser role, as such high-dex monsters would become a lot easier to hit.
Spell save DCs would suffer and in combination with above, rays would probably become somewhat more attractive.

A lot of conventional high strenght monsters would be weakened significantly (less Strenght, less Con).

If you only restrict the players however, things would become much harder post level 10 or so.

[ddude987]

So I was thinking about the whole issue around playing a character more intelligent than you, or more charismatic than you, or whatever. A long story short, what would happen to the game if you restricted ability scores to (say) go no higher than 20?

Well spellcasters wouldn't get as many spells. Also social skills would be reduced a lot. I think it would make spellcasters need to be more conservative and wouldn't allow the charisma based characters to roll diplomacy and solve everything.

[Karnith]

Pretty much everything would suffer.
Spellcasters, though would still have all of their silly things (albeit slightly fewer of them), since having a primary casting stat of 20 still makes you capable of casting 9th-level spells, and a lot of the best spells don't have saving throws anyway.

If you apply this rule to monsters, a lot of creatures will be drastically weaker than they are now.

[Hendel]

In 1st edition an 18 was considered amazing and a 19 to 25 was god-like. It was also a lot harder to get scores that high and there was not as much of a game effect as there is in 3rd, 3.5, or Pathfinder.

That being said, the current systems seem highly regulated by ability scores. Do you only plan to cap PC ability scores at 20 but let NPC and monsters have whatever you desire? If so, the DC of spells becomes a major issue as the bad guys will be able to make the PC's DC check relatively easy while the PC's will have a harder time making the reverse.

I never thought there is an issue with somebody playing someone smarter, wiser, stronger, or faster than they really are. It is a FANTASY game. If I wanted to play Papers & Paychecks then I could go to work or school. I would recommend against a cap like that or at least set it at something like 30 to give the PC's a fighting chance at higher levels.

[Duke of Urrel]

Actually, I don't believe capping mental ability scores at 20 would make much difference at lower levels. It's only epic-level characters – and their foes, if you extended the cap to them – who would have to scale back some of their powers.

Interestingly, I have sometimes heard the complaint that spellcasters, particularly arcane spellcasters, are overpowered compared to other classes at very high levels. Capping mental ability scores would be one simple way to correct that, I think.

I wouldn't worry about the problem of role-playing somebody who's smarter than you yourself are. Super-high mental ability scores in D&D aren't like high intellectual capacities in the real world. They don't enable characters to do complex mathematical calculations at the speed of a supercomputer in their heads, for example. They exist primarily to bestow magical and psionic powers. You shouldn't have to be super-brilliant to play a character with super-human Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma. Just let your skill checks do the work for you.

For example, you don't have to play-act your PC's Diplomacy check in detail if you're not really a thrilling public speaker in reality. Just make the skill check and let your PC's awesome eloquence do its work. If you like, switch from direct quotation to paraphrase, or even to a descriptive narrative: "She presents the case for co-operation so expertly that several orcs in her audience seem furious with themselves for agreeing with an elf, yet unable to find any reason to disagree." You don't have to explain how she does it – she has 19 skill ranks in Diplomacy and a Charisma score of 22, that's how – and that's all anybody needs to know.

[Flickerdart]

So I was thinking about the whole issue around playing a character more intelligent than you, or more charismatic than you, or whatever. A long story short, what would happen to the game if you restricted ability scores to (say) go no higher than 20?
Unless you're super-Einstein, a cap of 20 is still far beyond your capabilities. If for some reason you want to restrict a game about roleplaying someone different from yourself to only model people exactly like you, then requiring players to use the elite array and banning all stat increases should get you where you want to go - even an Intelligence score of 15 represents a brilliant individual.

[Phelix-Mu]

I wouldn't worry about the problem of role-playing somebody who's smarter than you yourself are. Super-high mental ability scores in D&D aren't like high intellectual capacities in the real world. They don't enable characters to do complex mathematical calculations at the speed of a supercomputer in their heads, for example. They exist primarily to bestow magical and psionic powers.

Alright, I agree with much of the sentiment so far, but I would like to point out that mathematics is a pretty straightforward Intelligence check, provided the character comes from a culture where numbers are a thing (I'm having trouble thinking of an example where something doesn't know about numbers...no standard PC race is jumping to mind...sure there is one though). Anyway, Intelligence checks for characters with very high intelligence should be able to replicate some fairly abstract mathematical thinking. While advanced maths and advanced science probably don't exist in any culture in the standard D&D game world, I'm sure the outliers of the Intelligence spectrum have dabbled intellectually in the deeper nature of empirical thought and observational experimentation. Playing characters with an Intelligence in excess of ten points above what is possible in the real world (even sans items), is very difficult, but it should have more implication than just bonus spells and more psionics.

As DM, I would encourage players with high Int characters to make more Int-check to remember obscure details from earlier sessions, chances to put 2 and 45,697,452 together and get 45,697,454 (and related plot implications of making obscure connections based on limited evidence), and other mental acrobatics that are duly impressive. I've thought about giving things like photographic memory, eidetic memory, perfect recall, and so forth at certain Intelligence benchmarks, but this more or less boils down to giving more toys to wizards, which I am loathe to do.

Anyway, 2e everything was capped at 25, for everything, and as a character of a standard race, getting 20 in anything was terribly difficult. Very different ruleset in this respect.

[Flickerdart]

I've thought about giving things like photographic memory, eidetic memory, perfect recall, and so forth at certain Intelligence benchmarks, but this more or less boils down to giving more toys to wizards, which I am loathe to do.

This is actually covered by the Autohypnosis skill, which is a Wisdom-based psionic skill and thus best used by psychic warriors and ardents.

[Phelix-Mu]

This is actually covered by the Autohypnosis skill, which is a Wisdom-based psionic skill and thus best used by psychic warriors and ardents.

I was considering adding similar functionality simply as a result of high Intelligence, as opposed to being the result of hypnotizing oneself into remembering stuff. It's not entirely unrealistic, though real-world correlation of these traits and high intelligence is not perfect by any stretch.

I just wanted to give players a rubric by which to imagine just how smart/wise/charismatic their high stats make them, and things like photographic memory and such are easily accessible through pop-culture references. I could create similar effects, similar to skill tricks, and hand them out for all the mental skills. Strength is pretty self-evident, as we can just reference how much the character can lift off the ground, Constitution isn't too hard (holding breath, running distance, and surviving multiple stab wounds, no sweat). Dexterity, a little harder to peg, but it's really the mental stats that are the usual culprits, especially as the numbers become fairly meteoric by real-life standards.

Oooh, I could do random number recall....hmmm. That would be an interesting example to give a player.

[Flickerdart]

I'm not so sure that high intelligence should cause perfect information recall. The archetypal absent-minded professor will have no difficulty reciting the value of pi to an obnoxious number of places due to his ranks in Knowledge (Digits of Pi), but will kiss his door goodbye and close his wife because he is lacking in Wisdom.

[TuggyNE]

Unless you're super-Einstein, a cap of 20 is still far beyond your capabilities.

Why would you say that? Comparing the distribution of 3d6 to the distribution of IQ indicates there are (IIRC) half a million or so Int 18 people in the world, and probably at least a few thousand Int 20. "Super-Einstein" would be someone with an Int of 26, 28, or maybe 30. (Arguably, he, Einstein, took levels in Human Paragon for the floating ability score bonus, as well as Venerable, 18 starting, and a level-up bonus, for a total of as much as 24 with no magic or alchemy.)