Über nerfed druid build

[Balor01]

So ... I cannot really into optimizing, but I would like to introduce a NPC into my campaign and have it built here. Also, I am willing to playtest it in a series of arenas here on GitP to see how it works if anyone is willing to build this thing.

Here are the limitations:

- elite array
- Core only + a single splatbook
- lvl 20
- max spellslot level available is 5. No spellslots above lvl 5, no spells above lvl 5, no metamagic to push spells above lvl 5. No spells from sources other than mentioned core+ single splatbook
- 800 gp of equiptment

... first of all I will wait if anyone needs any aditional info, then we may begin. (if anyone pops up willing to build such a thing)

[Waker]

I know it may cause some to faint, but with that tiny bit of money to work with, you might want to consider...Vow of Poverty.

[Karnith]

... first of all I will wait if anyone needs any aditional info, then we may begin. (if anyone pops up willing to build such a thing)
Is this NPC meant to be an antagonist to the party? An adventuring companion? And what is the make-up/optimization-level/builds of the party in your campaign?

I know it may cause some to faint, but with that tiny bit of money to work with, you might want to consider...Vow of Poverty.Eh, druids are one of few classes that aren't terrible without gear, so a VoP druid isn't as bad an idea as VoP characters normally are. It's certainly better than trying to survive on 800 gp. Since only one splatbook is allowed, though, the question is whether VoP is better than material from some other book for a poor druid.

[Waker]

Honestly if this druid is so hard up for cash and doesn't have access to many of its spells I would say take a bunch of levels in Totemist or perhaps Incarnate. Finding out the purpose of this npc will affect the build though.

[Balor01]

Is this NPC meant to be an antagonist to the party? An adventuring companion? And what is the make-up/optimization-level/builds of the party in your campaign?


Well, with pantheon turning out as it did (due to a previous lvl 20 game), druids are by far the strongest PC classes in this setting. I could just pick three CR 12 magic beasts and said that "druid sent them" but if possible, I'd prefer a decent build. Druids pop up fast. Some prayer, some hatred of "unnatural ways" and yesterdays commoner is on the Path of balance, persuading people to return to hunter/gatherer society, leave towns and to demolishing mines, cities and all other unnatural stuff. An ecoterrorist ... just that it is more of an eco-armada.

Optimization on my campaign is unspecified since I would like to use this druid for several future campaigns.

[Eldariel]

The books of interest for a Druid are:
- Spell Compendium: Lots of wonderful spells. Most importantly Enhance Wildshape (makes surviving with no cash a whole lot easier), Blinding Spittle (Touch Attack Blind), Align Fang (for all your DR problems), Bite of the Werex (increases combat stats), Vortex of Teeth (nice handy Force nuke), Owl's Insight (massive Wisdom boost), Greater Resistance (superb saving throw boost), etc.
- Book of Exalted Deeds: Vow of Poverty, few interesting spells (most importantly Greater Luminous Armor).

There's also some individual stuff like Rashemi Elemental Summoning (Unapproachable East), Halo of Sand (Sandstorm), Horrid Animals (Eberron Campaign Settings), etc. but ultimately the choice should clearly be Spell Compendium.

Even just Greater Resistance allows for a massive boost that you wouldn't have access to otherwise, and it's all day. Add Enhance Wildshape and Owl's Insight and it's really alluring.

Book of Exalted Deeds would be nice for VoP but you can mostly surpass most of the stats it provides; crucially you'll miss out on Armor-bonus to AC in Wildshape forms (don't forget to get your companion a Barding at least), but that's life.


Feats are fairly simple; Extend Spell, Multiattack, Natural Spell, Greater Spell Penetration and stuff depending on how combatey/casterey you want him to be. Flyby Attack is pretty good and Empower Spell isn't the worst. Summon Nature's Ally is plenty strong in Core so remember those and consider Augment Summoning. Quicken Spell probably not worth it without higher level slots; Quickened Entangles are nice but meh.

Feline forms and companions; Dire Tiger companion, Dire Tiger combat form, etc. Can use Elephants, Rhinos and such if necessary too but you don't need flight since you can Airwalk (or Stormrage with Spell Compendium).

No reason not to have one-two levels of Monk if you don't miss out on any high level spells for it, btw. Easy fix to your AC and Evasion doesn't hurt either.


I'd probably go with Book of Exalted Deeds to be honest; Vow of Poverty actually covers most of the stats you want and while you miss out on Enhance Wildshape, you don't have the best forms available for it that easily anyways. Greater Luminous Armor is also a wonderful way to become a combat monster.

And yeah, use most of the spell slots for combat and utility stuff; Greater Luminous Armor, Air Walk, Death Ward, Barkskin, Resist Energy, that sorta stuff is just convenient.

[ahenobarbi]

Venerable Human

Druid 10/ Monk 1 / Risen Martyr 9
Str 14 = 14 - 6 (venerable) + 6 (VoP)
Dex 11 = 13 - 6 (venerable) + 4 (VoP)
Con 20 = 15 - 6 (venerable) + 3 (leveling) + 8 (VoP)
Int 16 = 11 +3 (venerable) + 2 (VoP)
Wis 20 = 10 + 3 (venerable) + 1 (level) + 6 (VoP)
Cha 11 = 8 + 3 (venerable)

Feats:
1: Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty
2: Nymph Kiss
3: ?
4: Intuitive Attack
6: Natural Spell, Sanctify Natural Attack
8: Touch of Golden Ice
9: ?
10: ?
12: ?, ?
14: ?
15: ?
16: ?
18: ? , ?

[Gurgeh]

Why would you bother putting so much in constitution? Wouldn't you basically be wildshaped 100% of the time anyway? Might as well leave the physical stats low and pump wis as high as it goes, with anything left over going into int for skill points.

Besides, the OP specified the elite array, so you'd be looking at something closer to:

STR 2 = 8 - 6 (venerable)
DEX 4 = 10 - 6 (venerable)
CON 8 = 12 -6 (venerable) + 2 (VoP)
INT 23 = 14 + 3 (venerable) + 6 (VoP)
WIS 31 = 15 + 3 (venerable) + 8 (VoP) + 5 (exp)
CHA 20 = 13 + 3 (venerable) + 4 (VoP)

The physical stats suck, yes, but why do you care? You only have 800 gp to spend, and mundane equipment is so worthless at ECL 20 that there's not really much point bothering with anything at all in the way of equipment, so carrying capacity is moot. Not sure what RAW says about age penalties while wildshaped, but by the time you're a level 20 druid then you're going to be able to shift into something nasty enough that a -6 penalty to strength is not going to be the biggest problem you'll face.

[Eldariel]

Why would you bother putting so much in constitution? Wouldn't you basically be wildshaped 100% of the time anyway? Might as well leave the physical stats low and pump wis as high as it goes, with anything left over going into int for skill points.

Your HP is derived off your pre-Wildshape Con so it's very important to have high Con. Indeed, Druids are "Wis > Con > everything" class. Also, Druid 17 gets Timeless Body so Venerable would be free at that point.

[ahenobarbi]

Your HP is derived off your pre-Wildshape Con so it's very important to have high Con. Indeed, Druids are "Wis > Con > everything" class. Also, Druid 17 gets Timeless Body so Venerable would be free at that point.

Yes. But the build can't take more than 10 levels of druid (because it's not allowed to get 6th level slot).

[Andezzar]

You will need some alignment switching for the Druid, Monk, Intuitive Attack combo. Is that allowed in the restrictive environment?
Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty and Intuitive Attack require the character to be exalted good. Monk requires a lawful alignment and Druid requires one alignment component to be neutral.

It won't be optimal to take more levels in a casting class, but the OP has not forbidden it. Druids get interesting features besides casting, unlike wizards and sorcerers.

[Eldariel]

Yes. But the build can't take more than 10 levels of druid (because it's not allowed to get 6th level slot).

Such limitation has never been stated. It was only said 6th+ slots won't exist; simply taking Druid levels beyond that point should be fine (16-17 seems fine for Huge Wildshape, some of the better forms, Dire Tiger companion and mebbe Elemental Wildshape). You just won't get spellcasting from them but it's Druid, who cares. It's still a fine Tier 3 class to take and it's not like you'd have many stronger options (Wizard 10 on top of it, mebbe, but that's about it).

[ahenobarbi]

It won't be optimal to take more levels in a casting class, but the OP has not forbidden it. Druids get interesting features besides casting, unlike wizards and sorcerers.

But more levels will result in 6th level slots, which breaks one of requirements


- max spellslot level available is 5. No spellslots above lvl 5, no spells above lvl 5, no metamagic to push spells above lvl 5. No spells from sources other than mentioned core+ single splatbook

[Balor01]

Such limitation has never been stated. It was only said 6th+ slots won't exist; simply taking Druid levels beyond that point should be fine (16-17 seems fine for Huge Wildshape, some of the better forms, Dire Tiger companion and mebbe Elemental Wildshape). You just won't get spellcasting from them but it's Druid, who cares. It's still a fine Tier 3 class to take and it's not like you'd have many stronger options (Wizard 10 on top of it, mebbe, but that's about it).

This. You can take 20 levels of Druid, just don't get spell slots above lvl 5.

[Andezzar]

Then we understand the restriction differently. To me it means simply that the druid odes not get the slots regardless of how many levels he has, not that he cannot gain class levels that would give him (without houserules) such a slot. The OP should clarify.

[eggynack]

Now that I think about it, what this change really incentivizes is prestige classes that don't fully advance casting. The one extra book rule makes that a bit worse, because you lose the spell compendium, but if you're making a build that hits high levels it's possible that the benefits from the better spells go down compared to the prestige class. My initial instinct is master of many forms, but if there're any other prestige classes for druids that weren't considered before because they didn't fully advance casting, now's the time to consider them.

[Fyermind]

MoMF looks good to me. There are still enough interesting monsters in core to take advantage of it.
Gold Dwarf (dungeon master's guide)
Druid 9 / Monk 1 / MomF 10
13 str
8 dex -2 racial
14 con +2 racial
10 int +3 venerable
15 wis +5 levels +3 venerable
12 cha +3 venerable

Feats:
1)Alertness
3)Endurance
6) Natural Spell
9) power attack
10) Improved unarmed strike
10) Stunning Fist
12) Leap attack
15) ???
18) ???

You could put natural bond there but your animal companion will still be four levels behind. You have a lot of damage potential with leap attack and buffs from spells as well as pounce from wild shape. It gets better though as you can wildshape into anything but outsiders and undead if I read MoMF correctly and keep their extraordinary abilities when you do it. Of course, you are limited to core, so consider your options wisely.