[3.5]Want an acrobat/duelist/face ... scout ? Swashbuckler ? Rogue ? Factotum ?

[TomPliss]

Hey guy !

I'm going to try a little 3.5 game in a few days (only played 4e, as of D&D), and I think i'll try some rogue-y (sword)muskeeter typed character ... I don't really know how to describe him ... the "acrobat/duelist/face" may sum it up ...

So i'm browsing around, reading threads handbooks, descriptions, ... and i can't decide ...

I clearly want a character who is focused on going in duels, who can go anywhere (more city-focused), and who is not good only in combat, but can also be a good bluffer/face in general ...
Oh and yeah, mostly melee, and squishy but dodgy in combat ...

I know the Scout is commonly nature-focused, but there is the CityScape book (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) to help the fluff-change by replacing a feat or two, os it stays in my array of possibilities ...

so i'm quite lost there ...


Halp ?

[WhatBigTeeth]

That's a concept that 3.5 has a notably hard time executing well. Most of the options like a straight Riposte Scout, are pretty danged weak. I'd point out Warblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2) or a Scarlet Corsair (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050805b) or Avenging Executioner fear/feinting build.

Warblade is really easy to build well. Just read up on the maneuver system, note that maneuver levels are like spell levels not class levels, avoid most stone dragon maneuvers, and you're going to have a reasonably powerful character who can tumble around and make things hurt.

Scarlet Corsair and Avenging Executioner take more elbow grease (and the Drow of the Underdark splatbook) to make work: Scarlet Corsair with its swift feinting + the surprising riposte feat to count its targets as flat-footed for a round and the imperious command feat to terrify groups of enemies and effectively remove them from the fight; Avenging Executioner mostly for Imperious Command and other fear abilities. AE is a bit easier to make work, but it's screwed pretty royally if it encounters fear immunities; SC is a bit more robust in that regard, but can be slower to develop as a build.

[Urpriest]

Warblade is nice, though it probably won't be the face (although with a few levels of Bard and the Song of the White Raven feat you'll get something a bit closer to the concept).

While more limited, you could probably do this with a Daring Outlaw build. Daring Outlaw is a feat from Complete Scoundrel that lets you stack Rogue and Swashbuckler levels for Sneak Attack, so you can use Swashbuckler's higher BAB and HD to survive in melee while still maintaining good damage.

[KillingAScarab]

What sources are you allowed to use, TomPliss? Since you're simply going to try 3.5, shall we assume anything which is available online (3.5 and earlier did not have an online index of material you could pay to access), such as The Hypertext d20 SRD (http://www.d20srd.org) or articles on Wizards.com should be the main places to pull things from? Will your DM have anything they specifically will not allow?

[Gwendol]

I'm with Urpriest on this one: stacking rogue and swashbuckler is what you want to do. You get skills from rogue and fighting and movement abilities from swashbuckler.

[TomPliss]

Stacking rogue and swashbuckler is what you want to do. You get skills from rogue and fighting and movement abilities from swashbuckler. Yeah, I think that's what i'm going to do ^^

As for the allowed sources, there is no real limitation.

[gorfnab]

Here is a build I came up with a while ago. It's a sort of a swashbuckler/duelist/acrobat build.

Human or Strongheart Halfling
1. Cobra Strike (UA) Deceptive Strike (PHBII) Monk - Camendine Monk, Combat Expertise, B: Dodge
2. Cobra Strike (UA) Monk - B: Mobility
3. Swashbuckler - Deadly Defense, B: Weapon Finesse
4. Swashbuckler
5. Swashbuckler
6. Thief Acrobat - Combat Reflexes
7. Thief Acrobat
8. Thief Acrobat
9. Thief Acrobat - Einhander
10. Thief Acrobat
11. Warblade
12. Warblade or Duelist - Ironheart Aura
13. Duelist
14. Duelist
15. Duelist - Robilar's Gambit
16. Duelist
17. Duelist
18. Duelist - Stormgaurd Warrior
19. Duelist
20. Duelist

Levels 10 through 12 can be rearranged depending on your needs. The current setup gives you Improved Evasion and Uncanny Dodge at these levels. However if you don't need Improved Evasion take one less level of Thief Acrobat and move the first level of Warblade to level 10. If you don't need Uncanny Dodge don't take the 2nd level of Warblade and instead go into Duelist a level early. If you don't need either abilities take Warblade at level 10 and enter Duelist at level 11.

If flaws are available pick up EWP: Broadblade Shortsword (pre-errata version if possible) or Versatile Unarmed Strike and Snap Kick (may need to rearrange later feats). If traits are available pick up Cautious.

The Monk and Swashbuckler levels (levels 1 through 5) can be switched around to taste. I personally like Swash 1/ Monk 2/ Swash 2

Otherwise I would recommend going with Factotum and using the skill Iaijustu Focus.

[TomPliss]

By the way, is there any benefits to multiclass the swashbuckler with little bit of swordsage or warblade (I was thinking about the stances and the maneuvers...) ?
if so, which one ?

[Urpriest]

By the way, is there any benefits to multiclass the swashbuckler with little bit of swordsage or warblade (I was thinking about the stances and the maneuvers...) ?
if so, which one ?

Either can be nice. Swordsage is cool because it has a Shadow Hand stance that gives +2d6 sneak attack, and a feat that lets you add Dex to damage whenever you're in a Shadow Hand stance. Warblade will help keep your BAB up, and get more benefit out of a good Int score.

[ddude987]

I was thinking ijitsu focus factotum. You have the skills to be a face, you can do decent damage and you have the skills to do acrobatics like tumbling or jumps. Also you can poach sneak attack or other things.