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View Full Version : E6 generic class redesigns



JusticeZero
2013-03-26, 02:28 PM
Was trying to kick the non-caster classes back upstairs to usefulness. Any thoughts?



The Expert
Hit Die: 6 max, 4 median: d6. (IE, 1:10 hp, 2:14, 3:18, 4:22, 5:26, 6:30, as the campaign assumes 4 hp "level zero bonus", 1st level max hp, each level afterward "median hp, round up")
Base Save Bonuses: Three good saves.
Class Skills: All skills are considered class skills.
Skill Points: 8 + Int modifier (or four times this number at 1st level).
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: All simple weapons, one martial weapon; light armor.
Reliable: At 1st level, the Expert can, once a day, reroll any skill check they make and chose the result they prefer. They gain a second reroll at 6th level.
Talented: At 2nd level, the Expert gains a +1 bonus to any skill checks they make. At 5th level, the bonus increases to +2.
Knowledge: An expert may make a special knowledge check with a bonus equal to his expert level + his Intelligence modifier to see whether he knows some relevant information about local notable people, legendary items, or noteworthy places. (If the expert has 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (history), he gains a +2 bonus on this check.)
A successful knowledge check will not reveal the powers of a magic item but may give a hint as to its general function. An expert may not take 10 or take 20 on this check; this sort of knowledge is essentially random.
This ability is identical to the Bardic Knowledge ability gained as part of the Bard class, and counts as it for all prerequisites.
Brilliant Assistant: At 4th level, the Expert gains a bonus of +2 on any check to use the Aid Other action and never suffers from non-proficiency on the check. In addition, the person being aided receives a bonus of +4 rather than the normal +2.
Magic: The Expert learns spells, using the spell progression of a Ranger (0 first level spells per day at level 4, rising to 1 at 6th). These spells are from the following list: Cure/Cause Light Wounds, Detect Magic, Magic Weapon, Read Magic, Comprehend Languages, Identify, True Strike. They are cast as Divine spells, and need not be decided upon ahead of time.
Mystic Crafter: At 2nd level, the Expert can copy spells as if they were a Wizard, in spite of being unable to cast them. They can learn/scribe spells from any list, by copying from scrolls or spellbooks. They do not gain any spells from leveling, and must get the spells from other sources. These learned spells are only useful for adding the ability to use these spells from spell trigger items or for purposes of crafting magic items.
Bonus Feats: The expert gets one bonus feat at 1st level, another at 3rd level, and one at 5th level.


The Warrior
Hit Die: Max 10, median 6 (d10).
Base Save Bonuses: One good save and two poor saves.
Class Skills: Choose any eight skills as class skills, plus Craft.
Skill Points: 4 + Int modifier (or four times this number at 1st level).
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: All simple and martial weapons; light and medium armor; shields (but not tower shields).
Bonus Feats: A warrior gets one bonus feat at every class level.
Surging Confidence: At 2nd level, every time the warrior reduces a foe to 0 hp or less using melee or missile combat, they can as a free action immediately grant any one character within 30 feet of the defeated enemy who can see the enemy fall one temporary hit point, plus one additional hit point for every three HD the defeated enemy posesses. These temporary hp last for one minute.
Shock And Awe: At 6th level, any time a Warrior confirms a critical hit against an enemy, they can inspire all allies within 30 feet of the foe struck with a +1 morale bonus to hit and damage, lasting one minute. If the attack has a critical damage multiplier of x3 or more, it also grants a +1 morale bonus to saving throws for the same time.
Battle Reflexes: At 5th level, the Warrior's training and experience in battle has made it so that they intuitively sense and respond to threats before they even realize what is going on. At the beginning of the surprise round, before the enemy acts, the Warrior is allowed to roll initiative and declare a standard action that they will do when their initiative comes around. They remain flat footed until their action in the normal combat round.

Stumerac
2013-03-26, 04:08 PM
I think the feats are interesting and relevant. I wonder if they are very generic. Only Reliable seems like a generic feat to me. Which is totally fine if we want every expert and warrior to have these feats in this game world.

I like the skill buffs and expert save buffs on their face, but I have no idea if they will become too powerful as the characters progress.

JusticeZero
2013-03-26, 04:15 PM
well, it's having to stack up against characters who can toss 3rd level spells from multiple spell lists around; that's barely shy of tier 1, especially with scrolls, wands, et cetera around.

Spellcaster = "you can do magic"
Warrior = "You're a badass"
Expert = "You're knowledgeable and talented"

If I try to dilute the classes much more than that, they start to get weak at their job. The Expert in RAW was pretty awful even at being a skill expert.

Stumerac
2013-03-26, 04:23 PM
I guess it doesn't matter too much if the feats make the classes less generic. Technically only the pcs have to use these rules. The gm and player npcs can use whatever character gen rules you want. I was imagining a world where all the experts are like apprentice magic-users and all warriors were inspirational combat leaders. But since, technically, only the pcs have to use these classes, the world wouldn't have to work out that way.

I would be excited to play this expert class. The warrior class doesn't appeal to me, but there are few warrior classes that do. I don't think the buffs are unreasonable. Just have to watch out for min/max yuckiness, like that grappler you mentioned.

JusticeZero
2013-03-26, 04:31 PM
Well, the warrior there doesn't have to *try* to be inspirational - it's just a badass combat expert who gets to be good enough that their effectiveness at their job encourages their allies. Likewise, the expert isn't aiming at being "an apprentice magic user" so much as having picked up a thing or two about magic in passing as a side effect of their general know-it-all-ness.

Stumerac
2013-03-26, 04:41 PM
Fair enough. What's a "spell trigger" item from the Mystic Crafter feat?

JusticeZero
2013-03-26, 04:45 PM
Scrolls and wands.
I might remove the heal and truestrike. The heal worries me because it makes the caster more immportant if they dont have it, but it's a little less generic.

Stumerac
2013-03-26, 04:46 PM
Would the expert have to have the Scribe Scroll or Craft Wand feats to use the Mystic Crafter feat?

JusticeZero
2013-03-26, 04:51 PM
They can learn spells without it, but without the craft feats it just means they can use the matching wand/scroll without a UMD check.

Yora
2013-03-26, 05:40 PM
I would recommend basing it on the pathfinder rules rather than the 3.5e rules.
With fewer skills, each skill point becomes more useful and you can get ranks in cross-class skills for the normal price and not the double price.

JusticeZero
2013-03-26, 05:55 PM
I don't know the relevant PF rules - but none of the three relevant classes are anywhere to be found on the pf srd site.

JusticeZero
2013-03-27, 12:13 AM
Also, i'm scratching my head trying to figure out what it is on this document that you're looking at that is communicating 3.5ness rather than PFness....? I was looking at changing engines earlier, but it is less than clear what would change here.

Mighty_Chicken
2013-03-27, 04:01 PM
AFAIK Pathfinder never tried to revamp the generic classes. Mostly because though they have additional rules suplements, they don't have variant rules suplements.

But give a look into it. Pathfinder is like a 500 page worth set of houserules. Most of them are good, some are excelent and some are bad. But it doesn't matter, because it's just a lot of houserules like any other lot. Just take what you like and leave the rest.

Pathfinder's skill system (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/usingSkills.html) is really superior. It has its flaws, but it's better and more organic than 3.5's. It's just as Yora said, though: there is no such thing as "half rank", any point spent in a skill will increase one rank, the only difference of class skills is that you get a +3 untyped bonus if you have a rank on it, and thus of course, you don't get x4, but x1 skill points at first level.

The only but is that a 1 lvl dip in your Expert would make any character have all skills as class skills. The fix to it, I think, would maybe make the Expert start with X class skills and get more Y class skills per level, until he has all of them.

The reason why people are seeing PF in your document is because the class abilities are blunt and powerful. Not many "buts" as we see in 3.5. Also, many people believe E6 works better with PF, since PF's classes are more flavourful and able at low levels.