Kingmaker- Phalanx of Paladins- Pathfinder. Help!

[Acanous]

OK. My IRL group is doing Kingmaker in the very near future. Myself and one other player are conspiring to make Paladins, and to convince two other players to also make Paladins. (Our player party is 6 players, and one of them is guerunteed to play a sorceror.)

I am only passingly familiar with Kingmaker. I'd like some advice on what we can do to make the campaign flow smoothly with our Phalanx.

We're likely to have 25 point-buy, and I know one of the Paladins wants to play a Tiefling. I'm partial to Gnomes, myself, but I can be persuaded to play anything, really.

So!

What sorts of things do we need to do/build for in order to make this not end horribly? I know there's city-building dependant on stats and skills or casting ability, but I don't know the specifics. Please help me to make this an enjoyable campaign with a minimum of frustration :3

[Ravenica]

survival and perception are king (haha)

4 paladins will be interesting, if you aren't doing flying mounts horseshoes of the zeypher will be a must, overall with 6 players you really shouldn't have much trouble with the first 4 books...

someone will want to speak sylvan....

[Feralventas]

Look into different archetypes for each memeber of the team.
>Hospitaler for a healadin.
>Divine Hunter for a ranged archer for support.
>Standard Paladin for front-line guard
>After that, anything else is gravy.

Suggest a dip in Zen Archery Monk for the archer-din, gets rid of armor penalties to be able to sneak around when needed.

Also suggest that the Sorcerer could do well with a 2level dip in Paladin before going Sorcerer, or even after as a squire, so as to get Charisma on To-Hit rolls when it's important, and on Saves as well; after that going into Eldritch Knight might work well for them, or a number of other PrC's.

[Acanous]

Is Holy Gun any good?
Speak Sylvan, make sure mounts fly. Have someone take survival and Perception. Right. That shouldn't be a problem :3

Any advice on city building, or how we should assign stats in order to build a city? The Monk idea means one of us goes Wisdom-focused, which is interesting but not impossible.

[Ravenica]

a good spread over the stats can help but really each potential advisor position has 2 primary stats to choose from, so long as you have a STr build, a dex build (your sorc covers cha) you have the best bases covered, you can always use an npc to cover int or wis if no one is exemplary in those areas

[Feralventas]

Is Holy Gun any good?
Speak Sylvan, make sure mounts fly. Have someone take survival and Perception. Right. That shouldn't be a problem :3

Any advice on city building, or how we should assign stats in order to build a city? The Monk idea means one of us goes Wisdom-focused, which is interesting but not impossible.

Holy Gun is alright, and you'll have plenty of other folks to do Detect Evil since you're replacing it for Shoot Gun. The Smiting Shot is a little weak though; might be better off just dipping Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger for Cha synergy) or picking up the Amateur Gunslinger feat instead.

Wisdom Focused works well enough, even in Pure Pathfinder, though it'll have to wait until 7th level to use it as an attack roll stat via Channel Smite and Guided Hand. If 3.5 content is allowed, the Zen Archer feat lets you use wisdom for ranged attacks, or the Exalted feat Intuitive Attack lets you use it for all attacks. Of course in addition to this it makes for a great perception, profession, sense motive and survival skill check.

[Acanous]

3.5 is disallowed by the smalmindedness of certain people.

The Cha-focus position is going to be fought over. I usually have decent INT in my builds (Skill points are good) and likely will end up CHA-CON-DEX-INT-STR-WIS.

[Feralventas]

3.5 is disallowed by the smalmindedness of certain people.

The Cha-focus position is going to be fought over. I usually have decent INT in my builds (Skill points are good) and likely will end up CHA-CON-DEX-INT-STR-WIS.

Sorcerer could also switch their casting stat.
Empyreal bloodline (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/archetypes/paizo---sorcerer-archetypes/wildblooded/empyreal)
Wisdom Sorcerer.
sage bloodline (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/archetypes/paizo---sorcerer-archetypes/wildblooded/sage)

Edit: Sage bloodline is Int based.

[Acanous]

That's potent argument ammo, thanks :3

[Fouredged Sword]

You totally need 4 paladins, a sage sorcerer, and a inquisitor. It would be such a cool party flavor.

[Acanous]

We thought so, too. But it looks like it'll be 4 Paladins, a Cleric and a Sorceror.

If it's not too much trouble, could someone point me to a resource that shows which Paladin Archetypes combine and which do not? I can't access the PFSRD, and trawling through Paizo.com's PRD is difficult and time consuming.

[Chained Birds]

We thought so, too. But it looks like it'll be 4 Paladins, a Cleric and a Sorceror.

If it's not too much trouble, could someone point me to a resource that shows which Paladin Archetypes combine and which do not? I can't access the PFSRD, and trawling through Paizo.com's PRD is difficult and time consuming.

Yo! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229326)

Maybe you might want to look in on the Dwarf only archetype for Paladin for the Wisdom based one. I have no idea how that would work.

[Acanous]

Thank you, that's very helpful :3
*Browsing intently*
Oathbound Hospitalier with Oath of Charity looks like it'd be pretty awesome for a party healer.

[Hendel]

Having played Kingmaker, you will want to have a wide variety of high or maxed out ability scores or at least high or maxed out Charisma scores for the kingdom building part. Every character will take a roll in the kingdom and each role has an ability score associated with it that adds to the kingdom's rolls for different effects.

Ruler: Charisma (You can have two if they are married)
Councilor: Wisdom or Charisma
General: Strength or Charisma
Grand Diplomat: Intelligence or Charisma
High Priest: Wisdom or Charisma
Magister: Intelligence or Charisma
Marshal: Dexterity or Wisdom
Royal Assassin: Strength or Dexterity (No penalty if there is none)
Spymaster: Dexterity or Intelligence
Treasurer: Intelligence or Wisdom

There are penalties to different areas if any are left vacant except for the Royal Assassin. Don't worry, however, as you should be able to recruit NPC's for some of the positions.

With 4 paladins, you had better decide who will be the ruler or it might be a bloody paladin showdown. just kidding, but we did have a paladin and he became the baron/duke/king.

I know this isn't help with the build per se but you will want to keep this in mind as it will be very important for the survival and growth of your kingdom.

[Skysaber]

Charisma fills half of the leader slots, so don't be afraid to have everyone max it. Consider someone playing a female character, as doubling up ruler bonuses for cha makes a big difference.

Explore obsessively. Everyone should ride, as that makes this go MUCH faster. Consider unexplored territory the same as unclaimed gold. You need it just because it's there.

Once you get to the kingdom building phase, build roads in every hex. They are cheap, you need them, and they cost nothing to maintain.

Consider the unusual. If you must fight animals, skin them for their pelts and smoke their meat. Hire an expert for a silver a day to follow you around with a cart and do the work for you, if needed. Monsters can be resources, and nothing makes for a better watchtower than a fey able to cast Animal Messenger and send you a scroll detailing dangers tromping through her turf.

Gifts of meat from animals you've killed are generally good bribes.

You'll need farms and mines eventually. See if you can work out strategies that would give you benefits more than just saying "Here are peasants, there is land, go to work!" More and better infrastructure means more and better of everything else, and that's especially true when you start needing armies.

If powerful good monster you could have befriended gets killed before you meet them, don't forget to cart a body part out for a true res. Some of your best leaders could be recruited this way.

And, above all, have fun.

[Drothmal]

Check my sig for a fun paladin build that works well if playing with other melee classes.

The main gist is to use a tower shield and the sacred shield archetype to give everyone around you a ridiculous ac bonus (allowing for the other front liners to concentrate on dps)

I made it specifically for Kingmaker, so hopefully it will help.


Btw, you'll have to get one of the casters to take craft feats: ask if there is a discount for bulk headbands of cha ;)

[Karoht]

I'm one of the co-conspirator's for project Phalanx.
If someone else doesn't express interest, I'll likely be doing Holy Tactician with an Oath. Because their Smite tradeoff feature is a competance bonus, so it will stack with others using their Smite Evil. Add in Teamwork Feats and Swift action Aid Other.

We also figured that stacking everyone together is a good idea. Tower shields in front, Reach weapons in the back. So I'll probably grab a Reach weapon, work on some Trip focus, Swift Aid Another, etc.
Someone up front should probably do something with Intimidate. Always fun.

[Acanous]

Our DM caught wind of Project: Paladin and has limited us to 2 Paladins in the party :(
Karoht is playing Female, not sure what I want to do yet.

Here's the build we're currently kicking around for Paladin #1:

{table=head]Stat|Total|Bonus
STR|12|+1
DEX|18|+4
CON|12|+1
INT|13|+1
WIS|8|-1
CHA|18|+4[/table]

Race: Azata Blooded Aasimar
Swapping the Language for Scion of Humanity.

Traits:
Innocent (+5 to reasonable bluffs)
Bastard (+1 Will saves)

Skills: (+1 from FC)
Bluff
Ride
Survival
Sense Motive

Feats:
1: Combat Expertise
3: Improved Trip. Tactician Bonus: Coordinated Maneuvers
5: Fury's Fall
7: Combat Reflexes. Tactician Bonus: Broken Wing Gambit
9: Greater Trip
11: Power Attack. Tactician Bonus: Coordinated Charge
13: Fury's Snare
15: Improved Critical. Tactician Bonus: Seize the Moment
17: Leadership
19: Placeholder. Tactician Bonus: Tandem Trip

There's an alt-version of the build that goes Two-Weapon Fighting, dropping Fury's Snare, Leadership, Placeholder for the three TWF feats. Goes Sword-Scion instead of Bastard.

[Ravenica]

erm why would he limit paladins?

Hell you should all play wizards now just to piss in his corn flakes :smalltongue:

[Acanous]

The other Paladin is going to be a Tiefling, Demon-Spawn.
The build is actually about half-done, but not sure what to do from 11 onward.
Oathbound Paladin (Savagery)
Feats:
1: Infernal Heritage
3: Power Attack
5: Improved Bull Rush
7: Greater Bull Rush (See the Synergy here?)
9: Leadership (?)
11: ???

Stats:
STR: 18
DEX: 12
CON: 12
INT: 11
WIS: 8
CHA: 18 (Stats subject to change pending on Infernal Heritage rolls)

Variant Channeling: (Wrath or Strength)
Traits: Bastard (that +1 Will is just too good to pass on)
???

Debating going the Mounted Combat line with the 11+ feats, but unsure how well that would synergize. Alternatively, there's Overrun.

[stupiddDice]

raise your strength, you might have trouble hitting things and raising it will allow you to take power attack earlier, it will significantly increase your damage output. If you want to keep your dexterity high, I recommend putting it to use and playing an archery paladin.

[Hendel]

So let me get this straight, one paladin is a tiefling and the other paladin is an aasimar? No wonder your DM had to step in to avoid the earth elemental paladin and the efreet paladin...

Seriously though, you know that these will be the leaders of a "human" set of lands. I know the common folk of D&D are used to a lot and probably have a very liberal mindset when it comes to race and all, but tieflings and aasimar running the place sems to stretch it just a wee bit. That is, of course, just my opinion.

[Karoht]

Meh. I don't want to be King/Queen.
I'm a tactician.
Not a leader.
Worlds of difference.

But, I'm considering going Human due to DM prodding, and an extra feat won't kill me I'm sure.

[Hendel]

Meh. I don't want to be King/Queen.
I'm a tactician.
Not a leader.
Worlds of difference.

But, I'm considering going Human due to DM prodding, and an extra feat won't kill me I'm sure.
You do not have to be the baron/duke/king to be a leader. Really all the spots you fill in Kingmaker are leadership roles. If the players do not want to do this, I suggest you pick a different adventure path. If the characters do not want to do this, I would again suggest a different adventure path.

Kingmaker is best suited for lawful characters and players interested in making the wilds of the borderlands of the River Kingdoms into a thriving new barony/duchy/kingdom. If you consider yourself in game or out to be a tactician, then maybe you would be best to be the general or maybe the marshal.

My point is that Kingmaker has a more mature element to it than just point and click and kill bad guys. I would seriously discuss this before you start and see if everyone is on the same page.

[Fouredged Sword]

I love the heaven / abysal thing going on. I would have the two characters married though, just to spice things up. Becoming the monarchs would be funny.

[stack]

I don't think KM runs all the way to 20, so why make your built go to levels you won't reach?

[Hendel]

I don't think KM runs all the way to 20, so why make your built go to levels you won't reach?
There is nothing that says the characters cannot continue to adventure/explore once the adventure path is over. That would be the fun of a campaign like this where you have secured your domain, now you can go out and keep adventuring or run some diplomatic type adventures.

I once ran a high level "post-adventure path" game that was based off Hamlet but with dwarves. It was rally fun.