[PF] Armorless Samurai?

[Yahya]

Hey guys,

I've got a concept of a Japanese style wandering swordsman in the vein of Samurai Champloo, and I'm trying to figure out how exactly to put numbers to him in Pathfinder.

What I'm looking for is a melee katana user, without armor, and with minimal to no magic abilities. Is this possible?

My thoughts so far have been to do a Scout style rogue, and pump initiative, but I'm not sure if that'll work in the long run...

What do you guys think?

[talonhawk01]

Take a look at Weapon Adept Monk, perhaps? Use a Temple Sword for mechanics, but refluff it as a katana if you want. Then again, I wouldn't think it odd for a wandering swordsman to have an odd sort of blade.

I think the Weapon Adept archetype should combine with the human racial archetype Wanderer as well. That may fit your concept too.

[Yahya]

Does Temple Sword count as a monk weapon? I ask because that Perfect Strike bonus feat you get only works with monk weapons, which katana at least isn't, which pushed me away from that archetype in the first place. If Temple Sword isn't a monk weapon, perhaps there's a feat somewhere that lets another weapon count as a monk weapon? I'll start searching

What do you think about the Flowing Monk? I kind of like it, but I'm not sure if the abilities it gets are too situational. Wanderer is great too, mechanically and fluff wise, I'll definitely go that route at least.

Thanks for the response! :smallsmile:

[Baroncognito]

Does Temple Sword count as a monk weapon?

The PFSRD lists it as a monk weapon. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/eastern-weapons)

[Blyte]

(Kenai)Magus + (Flowing)Monk

that's no armor, dex+wis+int to ac

focus on buff spells to down play the magus magic abilities.. mage armor + shield.

your AC will be outstanding with no armor.

use a wakizashi instead of katana so you can weapon finesse. wakizashi is still in the samurai class of swords. it's the samurai short sword.

[Theprettiestorc]

So, basically, you're talking about a Ronin. Masterless samurai.

I would definitely say Monk, because if you're talking about the guys in Champloo, they kick ass without their weapons as often as they do with.

[Drelua]

Monk could certainly work, but there's also the third party Martial Artist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/tripod-machine/martial-artist). It seems a little overpowered when compared to its closest analogue the Fighter, but I guess that isn't saying very much. Basically, they fight with no armour and get really good with a specific type of weapon.

[Yahya]

The PFSRD lists it as a monk weapon. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/eastern-weapons)

Oh good

EDIT:
Can you finesse a Temple Sword? It seams reasonably to me, considering the company it keeps, but it isn't a light weapon and I can't find anything to say it's an exception.


(Kenai)Magus + (Flowing)Monk

that's no armor, dex+wis+int to ac

focus on buff spells to down play the magus magic abilities.. mage armor + shield.

your AC will be outstanding with no armor.

use a wakizashi instead of katana so you can weapon finesse. wakizashi is still in the samurai class of swords. it's the samurai short sword.

Ooh, nice idea, I hadn't thought about magus. So are you saying multiclassing would be the way? Like maybe a dip in Magus for the int to ac and the level 1 spells, and then go Monk, or the other way around?


Monk could certainly work, but there's also the third party Martial Artist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/tripod-machine/martial-artist). It seems a little overpowered when compared to its closest analogue the Fighter, but I guess that isn't saying very much. Basically, they fight with no armour and get really good with a specific type of weapon.

My DM frowns on 3rd parties that aren't his own, otherwise this would look good too. :smallfrown:

Thanks a bunch for the answers everybody!

Also, what do you guys think about regarding races and ability scores? I was planning to go human, because I like the Wandering Monk archetype, the bonus feat, and the fact that it's a human, but I'm open to other human-ish races as well.

Oh, and we've got 20 point buy to work with, with 2 traits. Reactionary? Ancestral Heirloom? What do you guys think?

[Person_Man]

Magus is indeed a solid option. (Basically just a better Duskblade). Monk is still a low Tier class with some serious mechanical issues, though it's certainly much better then it's 3.5 counterpart.

I would not suggest multi-classing with any Pathfinder class if the game is likely to go above level 8ish though. Beyond that, you'd be sacrificing access to higher level spells and class abilities, which are quite considerable in Pathfinder. Magus 1-20 or Monk 1-20 would be more powerful and useful then any Magus/Monk combination.

[Unusual Muse]

FYI, the Whirling Steel Strike feat (Eberron Campaign Setting, p.62) lets you use a longsword as a monk weapon.

[Yahya]

Just read up on the Kensai Magus, and I'm loving it! Bladebound is pretty cool too, but I don't think it really fits the character. Totally bookmarking it to use as a recurring villain later though.

Person Man, I'm heading over to your list to see if there's any way I can get something besides Str to Attack, just so this guy does get too MAD.

Also, what do you guys think feats wise?

[NightbringerGGZ]

I'm going to be playing a Bladebound Kensai in order to approximate the abilities of the characters in Bleach, so I have to recommend the build as well.

If you don't want Strength damage then you have a couple of options. The first is to use an Aldori Dueling Sword, which is finessable so long as you are proficient with it. Add the Agile enchant as soon as possible and you have Dex to Damage right there.

My GM is kind enough to allow a few 3.5 feats, so I'm using Graceful Edge to treat a Katana as a light weapon and I plan on picking up Improved Weapon Finesse at level 5.

You really should look at the Weapon Adept monk as well. It's a monk weapon, so you can use Flurry of Blows with it. The Perfect Strike ability is pretty cool as well.

[stack]

Scimitar and dervish dance, just re-fluff as a katana. What's the mechanical difference? 1 average damage and +4 to CDG?

[ArcturusV]

Of course as you mentioned Samurai Champloo, Jin would probably have quite a few levels of Iajutsu Master, from DnD 3.0's Oriental Adventures book. Which would fit concept, does things like lets you add Int Mod to AC if unarmored, jacks up your Initiative with your Cha, adds Cha Mod damage to every Iajutsu damage dice, and similar abilities that fit concept. Granted, not PF but as I understand it's fairly easy to convert over.

[Blyte]

magus(kensai) X / monk(flowing) 1-2 is what I suggest

DEX > INT > WIS

1 Weapon Finesse
1 hum Combat Reflexes
1 mag1 Weapon Focus (Rapier)
2 mnk1 Improved Trip
3 Fury's Fall
5 Vicious Stomp
**5 mnk2 Agile Manuevers

**if you opt for 2 monk. (which is strong. +1 all saves, +1BAB, additional bonus feat, and EVASION!! this is a dex build)

take the trait that improves your caster level by 2 in magus (so long as you don't exceed your character level) and take magical lineage shield or shocking grasp... so you can later extend shields or intensify shocking grasps.

you want an agile rapier (or wakizashi) and an agile necklace of mighty fists ASAP.

your ac buffed will be rediculous, and it is a TOUCH AC!!

they will miss you and you will trip them (if they are tripable) and you will sock it to them for their efforts..

take scorpion style at some point to take away the monsters options to avoid you, and run to squishies.

[stack]

You can't take two traits from the same group. i believe both you mentioned are from the magic group.

[Yahya]

I'm still loving the Kensai, but I think I like the Monk too much to give it up. Person Man, you've got a good point about mixing tending to be less optimal in Pathfinder, so I'm going to see if I can't multiclass my way out of that.

My plan would be to dip Kensai and Flowing Monk until I get to Kensai 7/Monk 5. After that, I dunno where to go. I could go Rogue and Assassin to get some sneak attack, maybe go Fighter and rack up some feats, or maybe even go for a prestige class.

What do you guys think? Would I be even remotely competitive at higher levels? Are there any prestige classes that I could get into, that could keep my spell casting going?

Thanks!

[Blyte]

You can't take two traits from the same group. i believe both you mentioned are from the magic group.

I have found that mentioned under the feat that lets you pick 2 additional traits, but I have not seen that rule in the traits section. I think it may be unique to that feat. But its no big deal.

[Blyte]

I'm still loving the Kensai, but I think I like the Monk too much to give it up. Person Man, you've got a good point about mixing tending to be less optimal in Pathfinder, so I'm going to see if I can't multiclass my way out of that.

My plan would be to dip Kensai and Flowing Monk until I get to Kensai 7/Monk 5. After that, I dunno where to go. I could go Rogue and Assassin to get some sneak attack, maybe go Fighter and rack up some feats, or maybe even go for a prestige class.

What do you guys think? Would I be even remotely competitive at higher levels? Are there any prestige classes that I could get into, that could keep my spell casting going?

Thanks!

Sure thing, and going straight magus will be more optimal, in some ways, if you get high enough in level to qualify for the good fighter critical feats. But I think that comes in the mid to high teens. You will be more optimal as a tank/frontman as a magus/monk throughout your career, imo.

[JaronK]

For what it's worth, in normal 3.5 I'd probably go with something like Monk 6/Shou Disciple 5/Swordsage 1/Warblade 8, though that does mean you have to wait until level 11 to flurry with your Katana. And you'd definitely want Kung Fu Genius or Carmendine Monk.

Flurry + Raging Mongoose would be pretty darn cool though.

JaronK