D&D 3.5 What are some Grapple Rules House Rules/Variants?

[scarmiglionne4]

I am thinking of doing grappling as an opposed skill check in my D20 homebrew game.

What have others done to make grapple both easy to play and viable?

I think grappling can add a certain amount of cinematics to the game, and that is exactly what I am looking for.

[nonsi]

Try this:
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Starting a Grapple
First, make a touch attack (provokes AoOs) – if successful, make an opposed Grapple check.
The winner has its opponent held (or can break the hold).

IN A GRAPPLE:
• You do not threaten opponents that are not grappling.
• You lose your Dex-bonus to AC (if any) against opponents that are not grappling.
• When attempting any action, a character in a grapple must first succeed at an opposed grapple check against every opponent in the grapple (in case of multiple grapplers). This check is a free action (Note: When making a full attack you must make an opposed grapple check before each attack)

Movement
A holding opponent can move as much as its opponent's additional total weight allows. Each additional opponent that overcomes the holder's Grapple check also adds its weight to the total.

Pinning
Overcoming a held opponent by 10 or more, or a free opponent by 20 or more, means the opponent is pinned (or the Grapple ends; winner's choice).
Pinned opponents take -5 on all Grapple checks and -4 on all attack rolls. They can’t move, and you may put ropes or manacles on them if you wish to, using a standard action.
At the end of any turn you are pinning your opponent, you may inflict unarmed or constriction damage. With subsequent attack actions, you may attack with natural weapons or light weapons with no penalty.

Lift
A held opponent can be handled by expending an attack action as if it were inanimate gear of twice its weight (since it's struggling).
A pinned opponent can be handled as if it were inanimate gear of its actual weight.
Throw: A lifted opponent can be thrown just out of your reach if it can be lifted off ground, and up to twice as far if it can be lifted over head.

Escaping a Grapple
Escaping a grapple requires an attack action. As with any action in a grapple, the character must succeed at an opposed grapple check against everyone in the grapple.


Combined Effort
When 2 or more grapplers are engaged in a grapple, their combined score is used by taking the maximum BAB & STR scores within the group. Each grappler in the group beyond the 1st adds +2 to the group's grapple check result.

[Mighty_Chicken]

I liked Yora's take (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14923840&postcount=59) on that.


Revised Graple Rules
Grapple is a regular Combat Maneuver made as a standard action.

Starting a Grapple
If you attempt a grapple you provoke an attack of opportunity from the enemy you are trying to grapple. If the attack of opportunity is a hit and deals any damage, the grapple attempt automatically fails. If you have the Improved Grapple feat or the Grab ability, you do not provoke an attacks of opportunity. If you do not have two hands free, you take a -4 penalty to your Grapple checks.
If your Combat Maneuver roll is successful, you and your target are now grappling and have the grappled condition
Grappled: Grappled creatures cannot move and take a –4 penalty to Dexterity. A grappled creature takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks, except those made to grapple or escape a grapple. In addition, grappled creatures can take no action that requires two hands to perform. A grappled character who attempts to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level), or lose the spell. Grappled creatures cannot make attacks of opportunity.
A grappled creature cannot use Stealth to hide from the creature grappling it, even if a special ability, such as hide in plain sight, would normally allow it to do so. If a grappled creature becomes invisible, through a spell or other ability, it gains a +2 circumstance bonus on its CMD to avoid being grappled, but receives no other benefit.

Continuing a Grapple
When you begin your turn in a grapple, you can take the follwing actions:
1. Make a standard attack with a light or natural weapon (with all the penalties of the Grappled condition)
2. Attempt to cast a spell as a standard or swift action
3. Escape from the Grapple with the Escape Artist Skill as a standard action.
4. Make a Grapple Combat Maneuver roll.

If you chose to make a Grapple roll and your Combat Maneuver roll beats your enemies Combat Maneuver Defense, you can do the following things.
Damage: The enemy takes damage equal to an unarmed attack, natural attack, or light melee weapon you are holding.
Move: Drag the enemy away for half your movement speed.
Pin: Make your enemy gain the pinned condition.

Pinned: A pinned creature can take no actions except a standard action to free itself from the grapple with an Escape Artist check or a Grapple Combat Maneuver roll.
It can only cast spells with no somatic component or any material components or foci, unless they are already held in the hand. A pinned character who attempts to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level) or lose the spell.

Tie Up
If you have your target pinned, otherwise restrained, or unconscious, you can use rope to tie him up. This works like a pin effect, but the DC to escape the bonds is equal to 20 + your Combat Maneuver Bonus (instead of your CMD). The ropes do not need to make a check every round to maintain the pin. If you are grappling the target, you can attempt to tie him up in ropes, but doing so requires a combat maneuver check at a –10 penalty.


I didn't change much, except cropping out unneccessary sentences and simplyfing pin. Is it better in any way than Pathfinder Grappling?

[Yora]

To simplefy and summarize:

Make opposed Combat Maneuver checks (PF) as a standard action to force the opponent into a grapple with you. You both get the grappled condition. If you don't have the Improved Grapple feat, you provoke an attack of opportunity when starting a grapple.

If you start your turn with the grappled condition, you can make an opposed Combat Maneuver check as a standard action to:
- Deal damage to your opponent from your unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light-weapon you have in hand.
- Escape from the Grapple.
- Move yourself and your opponent for half your movement speed.
- Force the Pinned condition on your opponent.

For extra coolness, perhaps add a 5th option, to lift your enemy and throw him 5 feet, if you take a -5 penalty to your Combat Maneuver check. (Since that can easily be made an instant kill, a normal grapple check would be too easy.)

[Greenish]

Well, Legend fits grappling rules in less than a page (http://www.ruleofcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/grapple.pdf), but then, it doesn't really run on the 3.5 rules anyway.

[Gotterdammerung]

My houserule for grappling is kinda simple. I just put possession rules into it. Essentially, grappling creatures are either in control, neutral, or controlled.

This changes the rules in a few ways.

Step 2: Grab- Successfully completing this step puts the 2 creatures in a grapple on equal terms. All members have equal access to grapple choices and take equal penalties.

Step 3: Successfully winning this step puts the initiator in a state of control of the grapple. He has access to all grapple options. The losing creature is controlled. A controlled creature can only make grapple checks to A.) Escape from control B.) Draw a light weapon C.) Retrieve a spell component D.) Break control E.) Cast a spell without somatic components if materials are in hand. Breaking control puts the grapple back on neutral terms. Escaping from control puts the grapple back on neutral terms.

Essentially this houserule puts someone in the driver seat on a grapple.

[scarmiglionne4]

Try this:
================================================


Starting a Grapple
First, make a touch attack (provokes AoOs) – if successful, make an opposed Grapple check.
The winner has its opponent held (or can break the hold).

IN A GRAPPLE:
• You do not threaten opponents that are not grappling.
• You lose your Dex-bonus to AC (if any) against opponents that are not grappling.
• When attempting any action, a character in a grapple must first succeed at an opposed grapple check against every opponent in the grapple (in case of multiple grapplers). This check is a free action (Note: When making a full attack you must make an opposed grapple check before each attack)

Movement
A holding opponent can move as much as its opponent's additional total weight allows. Each additional opponent that overcomes the holder's Grapple check also adds its weight to the total.

Pinning
Overcoming a held opponent by 10 or more, or a free opponent by 20 or more, means the opponent is pinned (or the Grapple ends; winner's choice).
Pinned opponents take -5 on all Grapple checks and -4 on all attack rolls. They can’t move, and you may put ropes or manacles on them if you wish to, using a standard action.
At the end of any turn you are pinning your opponent, you may inflict unarmed or constriction damage. With subsequent attack actions, you may attack with natural weapons or light weapons with no penalty.

Lift
A held opponent can be handled by expending an attack action as if it were inanimate gear of twice its weight (since it's struggling).
A pinned opponent can be handled as if it were inanimate gear of its actual weight.
Throw: A lifted opponent can be thrown just out of your reach if it can be lifted off ground, and up to twice as far if it can be lifted over head.

Escaping a Grapple
Escaping a grapple requires an attack action. As with any action in a grapple, the character must succeed at an opposed grapple check against everyone in the grapple.


Combined Effort
When 2 or more grapplers are engaged in a grapple, their combined score is used by taking the maximum BAB & STR scores within the group. Each grappler in the group beyond the 1st adds +2 to the group's grapple check result.

I love lift and throw. That is exactly the sort of thing I am looking for. Any damage dealt along with that, or is that just a way to throw someone off a cliff or something?

[nonsi]

I love lift and throw. That is exactly the sort of thing I am looking for. Any damage dealt along with that, or is that just a way to throw someone off a cliff or something?

You could just base it off of distance / height / max between the two (/ both if you're really bored and feel like using Pythagorean calculation :smallbiggrin:)

[TripleD]

There was also a recent homebrew discussion where a few ideas for throwing (as a special attack related to grappling) were tossed around.

Throw Creature [3.5 Special Attack] (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14917647#post14917647)

It covers some basic ideas like how far you can throw and how much damage can be done, as well as some feats for optimization.

[Vadskye]

Here's my grapple system. It uses Pathfinder-style CMB/CMD mechanics. If you fail by 10 or more, you provoke an attack of opportunity. If you succeed by 10 or more, you deal unarmed strike damage in addition to grappling.

GRAPPLE
As a standard action, you can attempt to grapple a foe, hindering his combat options. Weapons may not be used to grapple, and you must have a free hand to attempt a grapple.
If your attack is successful, both you and the target become grappled. Some creatures have special abilities related to grappling, such as improved grab. Those creatures do not become grappled when they grapple their opponents, and instead use the limb used to perform the grapple to grapple their foe. If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space. If no space is available, your grapple fails.

Being Grappled
While grappled, you suffer certain penalties and restrictions, as described below.

You must use one of your hands (or equivalent limbs) to grap- ple, preventing you from taking any actions which would require having two free hands. For example, you cannot attack with a two-handed weapon while grappling.
You take a -2 penalty to all attack rolls except those made to grapple.
You lose your Dexterity and dodge modifiers to AC to all opponents except the one you are grappling.
Anyone making a ranged attack at you has a 50% chance to strike the other participant in the grapple instead.
You do not threaten any opponents except for the creature you are grappling with.
You take an additional -4 penalty to attack rolls made with one-handed weapons, since they are too large and cumbersome to be used effectively in a grapple.
You cannot cast spells with somatic components.
Casting a spell without somatic components requires a DC 20 + double spell level Concentration check.
You cannot move normally (but see Move the Grapple, below).

Other than the restrictions listed above, you can act normally. You also gain the ability to use three special actions. Each of these is normally used as a standard action. If you have Improved Grapple or a similar ability, you can take these actions as attack actions.
Escape the Grapple: You can make a grapple attack or Escape Artist check to attempt to escape the grapple. Unlike normal, this is opposed by a grapple attack from the foe who is grappling you. If you succeed, you break the grapple and can act normally.
Move the Grapple: You can make a grapple attack to attempt to move the grapple. If you succeed, you can move both yourself and your opponent up to half your speed. At the end of your movement, you can place your target in any square adjacent to you. This can be used to place the target in dangerous positions, such as near a wall of fire or over a pit. You can only move the grapple once per round, regardless of how many grapple attacks you can make.
Pin: You can make a grapple attack to attempt to pin your opponent. If you succeed, your opponent becomes pinned, while you remain grappled.

Being Pinned
A pinned creature is helpless, but it cannot be the target of a coup de grace. The only action it can take that requires movement is to free itself through a grapple attack or Escape Artist check (using its normal Dexterity, not 0). A pinned creature can take mental actions, but cannot cast any spells that require a somatic or material component or focus. At the opponent’s option, a pinned creature may be unable to speak, in which case it is incapable of casting spells which require a verbal component. A pinned character who attempts to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler’s CMB + double spell level) or lose the spell. Being pinned is a more severe version of being grappled, and their effects do not stack.

Multiple Grapplers
Multiple creatures can attempt to grapple one target. The creature that first initiates the grapple is the only one that makes a check, with a +2 bonus to its CMB and CMD for each creature that assists in the grapple (using the Aid Another action). Multiple creatures can also assist another creature in breaking free from a grapple, with each creature that assists (using the Aid Another action) granting a +2 bonus on the grappled creature’s grapple attack.

Grappling a Mounted Opponent
You may make a grapple attempt against a mounted opponent. The defender may make a Ride check and use it instead of his CMD if it is higher. If you succeed, you pull the rider from his mount, and he lands prone in a square adjacent to both you and his horse. However, neither of you are considered grappled, and you must succeed on a second grapple attack to grapple him.