Lord Of The Rings Dabbling

[CrankyPsion]

Im going to run a game with a few friends, and I want a world we will all be familiar with and enjoy. So I chose middle earth.
Im going to use pathfinder rules and such but I had several ponderings I wanted opinions on:

1) Would you ever see a half dwarf? Under any circumstances would there ever possibly be a half elf/dwarf?

2) Are there wizards other than the 5 istari?

3) could there ever be a good orc? (a clean one too) Any suggestions on how this could come about? Would a worg still carry it?

and finally im setting this in the 4th era, anyone want to help me brainstorm on some baddies?

Thanks all in advance. I know this is all over the place.

[Debihuman]

It all depends on how faithful to the setting you want to be. If you want to be very faithful to the setting then the answer to your questions is a resounding NO to all of them. If you don't want to be faithful to the source material, you can do whatever you want.

See here: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/J.R.R._Tolkien%27s_The_Lord_of_the_Rings_%283.5e_C ampaign_Setting%29

Debby

[Yora]

To my knowledge there hasn't ever been anything like a half-dwarf in any way. Nothing suggests that they could exist.

Even half-elves are very rare, to my knowledge only three ever existed.

Good orcs have been debated forever. They are often described as soulless and evil by nature, but even Tolkien himself aknowledged later that you can't really have anything being truly evil, if they have no choice in their actions.
But in either case, a good orc seems extremely unlikely. Neutral ones perhaps, but there would still be no way that he could join a non-orc gang and visit non-orc settlements. Unless they are also really quite evil.

[Prime32]

Be sure to use E6 unless you want this to happen in the middle of The Hobbit:


*casts See Invisibility* Oh hello Bilbo! The invisibility is new. *casts Detect Magic* No, no need to explain, I can see it's that ring you're wearing. *casts Identify* Oh, it's the One Ring. *casts Mind Blank* Good thing I'm immune to mental influence. *grabs ring and casts Greater Teleport directly to Mt. Doom.*

Istari were definitely not wizards. Adepts at most. Gandalf was a paladin (complete with special mount), with a fire-based magic item.

Also, Middle-Earth does have magic items - don't fall into the trap of taking away the party's normal treasure then using standard monsters that are suddenly invincible because the PCs can't penetrate DR/magic or hit incorporeal things.

[LOTRfan]

I'm just going to mention that in the War of the Last Alliance, "all things were divided" except the Elves. This may be proof that 1) Orcs are not actually corrupted elves, and 2) Orcs (and all of Morgoth's creations, really) are not necessarily bad. That being said, even if you have an Orc running around being opposed to Sauron, it seems that the Free Peoples have a more or less "shoot on sight" outlook when it comes to Orcs.

I'd say that Half-Dwarves shouldn't exist in Middle-Earth. Not because they have never shown up, but because of the nature of their originals. Wheres the Elves and Men are both sons and daughters of Eru, the dwarves were adopted as Eru's children after they were created by Aulë.

I would consider the Istari to be Native Outsiders with a list of spell-like abilities unique to each individual.

[Moriwen]

1) Honestly, I think this would be the most likely of the three. It seems super-unlikely, but we do have precedent of Gimli falling in love (in a certain way) with Galadriel, so if the genetics work (and I don't see why they wouldn't), it seems possible. Still very, very unlikely, though.

2) No, but there are other Maiar (Tom Bombadil and the Ents, for instance), and they might have some special powers (like Tom Bombadil's singing and immunity to the ring).

3) This one is debatable. Official canon is that the orcs were formed from tortured Elves, that (in accordance with Catholic theology) nothing is completely evil because its very existence comes from Iluvatar and is good, but that orcs are always evil. Tolkien didn't actually like the "orcs come from Elves" set-up, but he died before he had a chance to change it. So while I'd be skeptical of an orc turning truly Good, I could see one after the fall of Sauron just not being that interested in going around slaughtering people.

If you did have a good/neutral/evil-but-has-other-interests-than-killing-people orc, I don't see why a Warg wouldn't carry it--they're implied to be intelligent in the books, and they might well bond with their riders.


As far as enemies go, the death of Sauron won't immediately destroy his forces, just send them into chaos. So orcs, goblins, wargs, etc. are still wandering around. The Balrog is still hanging around down in Moria; there might still be dragons, though none as powerful as Smaug; the Blue Wizards are entirely unexplored, and one of them might have turned evil; there might be various other Maiar, a la Tom Bombadil, hanging around, and some of them might be on the evil side; giant spiders are always a fun choice, too. Most importantly, while Sauron is defeated, Melkor is still around and is probably starting up some new plotting. Also, if I were setting something in the fourth age, I'd have Men be some of the main antagonists; the Elves are fading, the Men are coming into their power, and while Aragorn is king of Gondor, not everyone is going to follow him.


I hope that helps!

[Pyromancer999]

2) No, but there are other Maiar (Tom Bombadil and the Ents, for instance), and they might have some special powers (like Tom Bombadil's singing and immunity to the ring).


Tom Bombadil is not Maiar, canonically. While he is an otherworldly thing that is manifested on Earth, it has been established that Tom Bombadil is a one-of-a-kind creature unto himself. It has also been speculated that he was the first thing to exist, but that's another matter.

Ents are also not Maiar. They have none of the abilities of the Maiar, and are normal mortal, if extraordinary and long-living, beings of Middle-Earth.

[Geordnet]

Even half-elves are very rare, to my knowledge only three ever existed.
Well, it depends on your definition of "half-elf", but it doesn't really matter since they're not really distinguishable from either elves or men in most cases.

All half-elves in Middle Earth are the descendants of Beren (a man) and Luthien (50% Elf, 50% Maiar maiden; essentially an elf half-celestial). In fact, their story was far more important in Tolkien's eyes than the Lord of the Rings was.

Half-Elves in Middle-Earth during the time of LotR:

Elrond: 62.5% Man, 31.25% Elf, 6.25% Maiar
Arwen: 31.25% Man, 65.625% Elf, 3.125% Maiar
Aragorn: >99% Man, negligable Elf and Maiar




Istari were definitely not wizards. Adepts at most. Gandalf was a paladin (complete with special mount), with a fire-based magic item.
I'd model them as monstesr with spell-like abilities.

Also, not magic item: artifact. Granted, most of its power is so subtle it can't be fit within the rules, but Narya was pretty powerful.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Istari were definitely not wizards. Adepts at most. Gandalf was a paladin (complete with special mount), with a fire-based magic item.

Bards. They were all Bards. Search your feelings...you know it to be true!

[Moriwen]

Tom Bombadil is not Maiar, canonically. While he is an otherworldly thing that is manifested on Earth, it has been established that Tom Bombadil is a one-of-a-kind creature unto himself. It has also been speculated that he was the first thing to exist, but that's another matter.

Well, this is a well-hashed debate, but there's arguments on both sides. (We can go into them if you want, but I'm sure you know them as well as I do, and I don't want to derail the thread.) You're right, though, I should have qualified that statement.


Ents are also not Maiar. They have none of the abilities of the Maiar, and are normal mortal, if extraordinary and long-living, beings of Middle-Earth.

I actually hadn't realized this one was debated--I always assumed from the statement in the Silmarillion about spirits being sent down to make the ents that they were Maiar, but a quick google search suggests that most of the arguments are to the contrary. I defer to you on this one. :smallsmile:


So I'll restate my point: there aren't any more wizards, but there's precedent for miscellaneous otherworldly beings with "magical" (let's not get into that debate) powers, not all of which necessarily appear in canon.

In any case, I'm pleased to meet a fellow Tolkien-geek. :smallbiggrin: