Defeating a Monk specialized to kill you

[DflyMina]

I am in my first ever campaign and the DM feels the need to constantly overpower the three players. Here is the break down.

>We are playing a campaign of "abominations" all three player characters are race/class restricted to something that is "forbidden"

>>We have a rogue, blood mage and ranger (DM didn't allow us to communicate much when creating characters so we have no "tanks" or in-your-face hitters)

>>>Blood mage (as part of the story) can only use magic if there is a certain amount of blood on the field to cast. The DM actually upped the amount of blood required after the blood mage was able to use an animal's life to cast a LV 2 spell

>>>>As part of the campaign we now have a LV 8 monk after us who is specialized to kill us, each of us is LV 6

Because two of the three players are brand new to DnD (me and one other), we feel very limited and over powered by the campaign the DM is putting us through. He seems to have some kind of power complex and isn't explaining much beyond "use your imagination" but then when we finally get the wheels turning he loves to throw a wrench into the game.

Can anyone give us advice on killing this monk? Or at least make the monk keep running away (I hear that's what monks do if their HP is low). As the monk is an NPC, we don't know the exact build. General help would be appreciated.

[Kid Jake]

Well, first off; don't worry. It's just a monk. They specialize in two things: throwing a bunch of punches that can't connect and inviting ridicule.

Secondly, just spread out, try to stay out of his reach and whittle him down. Don't let him use a full-round action to flurry. Make him come to you each round while the three of you make full use of the action-economy.

Have you actually fought this guy yet?

[Sith_Happens]

Can the blood mage use the monk's blood to cast a spell? Because that would be hilarious.

[Juntao112]

Because two of the three players are brand new to DnD (me and one other), we feel very limited and over powered by the campaign the DM is putting us through. He seems to have some kind of power complex and isn't explaining much beyond "use your imagination" but then when we finally get the wheels turning he loves to throw a wrench into the game.
Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!

[RedDragons]

Have your blood mage focus on buffs, as these guys will be good at resisting spells and dodging them. Have him visit a butchers shop before the battle so he can carry around some blood in a bag.


Have the rangers companion stay with the wizard to help him fend off and keep the monk away.


Ranger arrows are probably going to be useless, as he will have deflect arrow if your DM is a ****. An AC is a little high, so have him stick with a two handed weapon, instead of two light weapons.


The rog...well...get some poisons or something, becuase I am not seeing to much here....I mean monks are mostly melee, so you as well all should maybe just huddle and stay close and fight back to back and let the rog and animal companion do flanking /sneak attacks.


Ranger at level 6 though has spells although none of them very..great for a melee focused, So am going to say longstrider.



That is all I can think of.




ooo duh forgot, you have wild empathy , talk to some bears or even birds, make a swarm , and then go bambi on their asses. ((make jokes about the monks dead mom))

[Pickford]

Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!

Don't you have the link to that guy who had a "PscyhoDM"? I feel that sounds...vaguely familiar here.

Or it's possible he just wants to have a recurring villain that you don't kill any time soon. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[peacenlove]

Summon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonSwarm.htm)a swarm. Swarms are highly resistant if not outright immune to damage and they Auto-hit.

Fly.
Bening transposition (http://dndtools.eu/spells/miniatures-handbook--75/benign-transposition--1949/) and use the rogue as bait, then ready an action to switch him with a convinced bear/tiger/anything.
Stoneskin + Fireshield (or death shield or body blades (cleric), that 2nd lvl spell from faerun that is fireshield light)

Move a lot. Sure the monk will catch you but he is limited to 1 attack.

If he grapples somebody then he is denied Dexterity to AC vs any other. You had a rogue you said?

[Larkas]

Hmmm, I would say that monks are nothing to worry about (just keep moving), but your DM is running a homebrew boat, what with all the blood mage gig, so I'm not really sure. If he plays minimally right, you shouldn't worry, but I'm afraid that he might simply fudge things up in case his "super villain" isn't up to par (and it shouldn't be).

Just be careful of one other thing: DMs like this tend to ruin the game for everyone. If things start to get boring, don't think twice about dropping the game and finding a better DM. I know that this is advised way too many times in these boards, but... What I want to say is: don't think that the game as a whole is boring or a drag just because of a ****** DM. These guys tend to get people to keep their distance from the hobby, rather than embrace it.

[MirddinEmris]

Are you sure that DM has a power complex and not just a veteran DM who has very different view about power level in the game (he may even think that he is pulling punches, after all, he made a Monk as a nemesis for you :) ). From your description i don't see anything that would made me certain about your "DM is against us" assumption, did you try to communicate with him about this issues? Maybe you should try to talk with him outside of the game to explain your concerns, if it won't help, it certainly wouldn't hurt either.

I don't think that monk would be a threat to your party of 3 (even assuming that all of your character is unoptimized) - let the mage trap him in a web and set him on fire while other shoot him (ranger and rogue should be competent in this area). And don't forget Grease spell - if Monk doesn't have 5 ranks in Balance (well, there is a chance of this, is small) than he always flat-footed while making Balance checks which means, that rogue get sneak attack against him and mink will lose most of his AC

Also - buy a couple of cows (shouldn't be to expensive for a 6 level chars) for your mage to make sure that he will always have blood needed (you could pass as a shepherds if you buy enough of them and some basic disguises) and ask DM if mage could store some limited quantity of blood energy for future use.

[DflyMina]

Thanks for all the wonderful tips. They have given me a lot of hope, and even better ideas.to form a strategy with my teammates that we can hopefully use against more than this monk.

The reason I got so upset about this battle and asked for help is because when I asked the DM to pull back a bit so that the new players (me and one other) could get a better handle on what was going on he said (this is paraphrase) "I'm making this as hard as I can because I'm trying to kill your characters." And then wouldn't listen when the other new guy and I said we were not comfortable with the playing skill he expected of us.

So instead of throwing a fit and quitting like a little kid I want to step up and learn what I can do before our session next week.

Again, thanks everyone !

[Gorfnod]

"I'm making this as hard as I can because I'm trying to kill your characters."

I don't think you need anymore than this to tell you that you probably aren't going to have a fun time with this DM. I mean if he wanted to just kill you he could just say "Rocks fall, game over". I understand that there is not a single definition of what a DM is or isn't but a DM is never the guy who is just "trying to kill you".

[Yogibear41]

What races do you happen to be playing? Knowing what you are working with could lead to better advice.

[Vicerious]

Thanks for all the wonderful tips. They have given me a lot of hope, and even better ideas.to form a strategy with my teammates that we can hopefully use against more than this monk.

The reason I got so upset about this battle and asked for help is because when I asked the DM to pull back a bit so that the new players (me and one other) could get a better handle on what was going on he said (this is paraphrase) "I'm making this as hard as I can because I'm trying to kill your characters." And then wouldn't listen when the other new guy and I said we were not comfortable with the playing skill he expected of us.

So instead of throwing a fit and quitting like a little kid I want to step up and learn what I can do before our session next week.

Again, thanks everyone !

He's the one being like a little kid. Walk.

[mangosta71]

Contact poison on the arrows that the rogue and ranger fire at him - he has to touch the things to deflect them. I'm a fan of black lotus extract if you can get your hands on it - the DC is high enough (20, while his base fort save is +6) that you should have a good chance of affecting him within the first couple hits, and 3d6 CON damage will put him down in a hurry.

[Hunter Noventa]

Contact poison on the arrows that the rogue and ranger fire at him - he has to touch the things to deflect them. I'm a fan of black lotus extract if you can get your hands on it - the DC is high enough (20, while his base fort save is +6) that you should have a good chance of affecting him within the first couple hits, and 3d6 CON damage will put him down in a hurry.

That depends on the the DM interprets deflect arrows. I'd imagine his monk would not be grabbing them by the arrowhead, but rather by the shaft.

But if I were such a situation I'd find a new game to play.

[Flickerdart]

Contact poison on the arrows that the rogue and ranger fire at him - he has to touch the things to deflect them. I'm a fan of black lotus extract if you can get your hands on it - the DC is high enough (20, while his base fort save is +6) that you should have a good chance of affecting him within the first couple hits, and 3d6 CON damage will put him down in a hurry.
At which point the monk instantly gains 3 levels and becomes immune to poison. With a DM like that, it's best to rely on more straightforward things.

[Larkas]

At which point the monk instantly gains 3 levels and becomes immune to poison. With a DM like that, it's best to rely on more straightforward things.

Like quitting the game? Seriously, guys like these give the hobby a bad name.

[Arbane]

"I'm making this as hard as I can because I'm trying to kill your characters." And then wouldn't listen when the other new guy and I said we were not comfortable with the playing skill he expected of us.

Sounds like this guy likes his Old-School antagonistic Viking Hat GMing. :smallyuk:

Yeahhhhh.... Don't get to attached to your characters, play hyperparanoid, (as in, taking 60 minutes in REAL-TIME searching an ordinary hallway for traps), and be prepared to jettison the game when (not IF) it stops being fun.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Monk's base AC sucks and base attack does too. Beat him down. The Ranger should be able to solo him no problem. Particularly if the Blood Mage can buff him beforehand.

Here's the thing about Monks... they're Multiple Attribute Dependent. Unless this monk has 18's across the board, he's going to either have a piss-poor AC or a piss-poor attack (or both). Literally every stat but Charisma and maybe Int is important to them. Str to hit, Dex for AC, Con for HP, Int for skills, Wis for more AC. You can't cover all the bases. And if he wears armor, his Wis bonus to AC goes away. Meaning his AC, even with stat-stacking, isn't going to be much more than 20ish.

Now mind you, that 20ish AC includes touch attacks, which is probably why the GM is chortling to himself, imagining you trying to hit him with a Scorching Ray and failing. And he's also probably impressed by having all three good saving throws, and envisions you throwing Glitterdust and watching it 'bounce off'. However, again... you don't need to bother. Buff up your allies.

Enlarge Person is a 1st level spell. It gives a Str boost, at a cost of Dex, but more importantly, it gives them a melee reach of 10'. Meaning the monk will be eating AoO just by trying to close.

Also, Monks do NOT get Uncanny/Improved Uncanny Dodge. Meaning the Ranger tanks, the Rogue flanks, and he gets sneak attack dice.

Dropping a Grease under the monk would be cute. No saving throw here, you make a Balance check. But if the Monk doesn't have five or more ranks in Balance, the very act of making a Balance check denies him Dex bonus to AC. Which dumps a good chunk of his AC, and enables Sneak Attack. Marbles also work, if allowed.

[Telonius]

I think Rays are going to be your friend: Exhaustion and/or Enfeeblement. You should be able to cast both. If he gets hit with Exhaustion and fails the save, his mobility is hampered, his AC drops (from dex) and his damage (and most likely his attack) is reduced (from strength). If he's carrying gear, he may just have moved to a Medium load, meaning his class features are turned off. Even if he makes his save, he's still going to take a hit to both strength and dex, and can't charge.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I think Rays are going to be your friend: Exhaustion and/or Enfeeblement. You should be able to cast both. If he gets hit with Exhaustion and fails the save, his mobility is hampered, his AC drops (from dex) and his damage (and most likely his attack) is reduced (from strength). If he's carrying gear, he may just have moved to a Medium load, meaning his class features are turned off. Even if he makes his save, he's still going to take a hit to both strength and dex, and can't charge.

Nah, rays are the only thing he's going to be strong against. Remember, his AC bonuses apply to touch attacks, so it's actually going to be difficult for a normal caster to consistently hit him with them.

Besides, the ranger and rogue are going to Ginsu him. All he needs to do is toss out some pre-battle buffing and he's good.

[Glimbur]

I like minions. If someone is specialized to kill you, send some friends instead. It might not work in this case because NPCs are controlled by the DM. Worth thinking about though.

[mangosta71]

If poison isn't your cup of tea, there are spells that inflict nasty status effects without allowing saves. If the party is level 6 you won't have access to the outright lethal stuff yet, but Kelgore's Grave Mist (from PHB2) is a second level spell that deals cold damage and fatigues living creatures in its area of effect - no save against either and no attack roll needed. If your blood mage doesn't mind dabbling in necromancy, he could summon a few undead minions around the monk and drop that mist right on top of the pile while you all laugh.

Another option is the third-level spell Shivering Touch (from Frostburn). 3d6 DEX damage for 1 round/caster level, no save (though it requires your mage to connect with a melee touch attack). Spectral Hand is a second-level spell that allows the caster to deliver touch spells from range. First ST hit will slow him way down, second will drop him unless you have really bad luck rolling damage.

There are plenty of ways to kill a monk. As others have said, that's not your biggest problem.

[Darrin]

You can defeat this monk with a 50 GP potion.

Babau slime. Spell Compendium. Druid/Sorcerer/Wizard 1. 1d8 acid damage per unarmed strike. "Go ahead and hit me! I dare you!"

If need be, add hamatula barbs (Spell Compendium, Cleric/Sorcerer/Wizard 3) and thornskin (Spell Compendium, Druid 3).

[Randomguy]

What feats do you guys have? What books are allowed? Do you have access to a magic item mart?

A Feather Token (whip) should be able to take down the monk easily if you can get your hands on one.

If the ranger is focused on archery, then see if you can get him into mounted archery (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.msg15069#msg15069) (that's the archery handbook, take a look around other parts of that as well).

If the ranger still hasn't chosen his level 6 feat and is focused on melee then he could pick up Improved Trip and grab a guisarme. This will let him trip the monk when he gets close and trip him whenever he stands up.

If you fight indoors, then a Web positioned so the monk doesn't have total cover from all of you would lock him down and then you could whittle away at him with ranged weapons.

If he gets into melee then the rogue could flank and sneak attack him, or help out with ranged attacks.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Don't you have the link to that guy who had a "PscyhoDM"? I feel that sounds...vaguely familiar here.

No no. There's a difference between killer DMs, and unpredictable bastards who happen to be DMing. The latter is dangerous out of character.

[Gazebo's Bane]

Just to suggest an alternative route: even Monks have to eat and sleep somewhere. A rogue using Gather Info, a ranger using Track and a mage with some divination should be able to find where an oddball monk lives. Make the next fight start in his bedroom at 2am :smallbiggrin:

Disclaimer: if your DM is as rotten as you suggest he'll just not allow it. If so, I'd use gather info, divination and track to find a better game instead.

[Kornaki]

If there's one character that ambushing at 2 am when he's in his pajamas doesn't help against it's the monk though

[Gavinfoxx]

If there's one character that ambushing at 2 am when he's in his pajamas doesn't help against it's the monk though

Surely, you don't mean the Monk, one of the most item-dependent classes ever? Perhaps you mean the Level 8+ Druid? Who is a bear in a nightcap at 2 am? ;)

[Waker]

Surely, you don't mean the Monk, one of the most item-dependent classes ever? Perhaps you mean the Level 8+ Druid? Who is a bear in a nightcap at 2 am? ;)

Or perhaps he meant the incarnate or totemist, who can choose to never unshape their soulmelds.

[Flickerdart]

Or a mystic theurge, who goes to sleep with more spells than other spellcasters start the day with? :smalltongue:

[TuggyNE]

Or a mystic theurge, who goes cries himself to sleep with more spells than other spellcasters start the day with? :smalltongue:

Fixed that for you. :smalltongue:

[Flickerdart]

It's surprising how many people don't recognize references to the comic.

[Sith_Happens]

It's surprising how many people don't recognize references to the comic.

Who say tuggyne didn't? After all, it's not like all those spell slots helped Tsukiko any.

[Waspinator]

I don't understand DMs who think the goal is to kill the PCs. That's not the point of the game and also way too easy to do. "Oh hey, here comes 50 dragons to kill you".

[Kazyan]

Or the warlock, whose swagger is bottomless.

[TuggyNE]

Who say tuggyne didn't? After all, it's not like all those spell slots helped Tsukiko any.

I actually didn't, which is weird, because normally I'm all over that stuff like honey mustard on a hobgoblin.

Still, I stand by my assertion that my version is more accurate. :smalltongue:

[GreenSerpent]

Once you pick your "battleground" as it were, try to get a friendly druid/UMD some scrolls of Soften Earth and Stone. Even on a successful REF save he's slowed to half speed and can't run or charge. Might stop him from getting close enough to get a flurry off.

Or if you've got it, a scroll of Solid Fog would work even better. For double effectiveness combine the two - when he's caught in the fog Soften the ground beneath him to effectively immobilise him for a few minutes. Then just pile on the no-save-just-suck spells (Kelgore's Grave Mist and similar)

[rockdeworld]

I don't understand DMs who think the goal is to kill the PCs. That's not the point of the game and also way too easy to do. "Oh hey, here comes 50 dragons to kill you".
To be fair, he didn't say that was his goal for the game, just that he was trying to kill the PCs. A good DM tries to kill PCs at least some of the time, with properly motivated enemies in an appropriate encounters.

Granted, that may not apply to this DM. OP, are you willing to share more details on this DM? If so, please tell us your horror stories, because I love reading them.