Assassin Strike Question.

[Cigam3679]

I love one of my characters, he is a Monk/Executioner Hybrid. My favorite combo of the classes is Minor Action Cloud of Darkness, Standard Action: Open the Gates of Battle, No action: Assassin strike. Ends up being +2 to attack for combat advantage and 4d10+Dex mod damage as an encounter attack at the start of every fight.

Im curious if i am doing that right. The Assassin Strike only says that it can be used when making an attack with a weapon, but the Open the Gates of battle does not say Weapon on it. Without the Weapon Keyword can i still use the Assassin Strike with the monk attack?

[Badgerish]

Unfortunately so. Open the Gates of Battle (like most/all Monk attacks) are 'Implement' attacks, as you are attacking with psionic-empowered attacks.

Basic Attacks with your unarmed strike does have the 'Weapon' Keyword, so there is that.

It's not an amazing power up, so talk to your GM to see if you can keep using this combo.

edit: also, you announce Assassin Strike after you hit (thus you don't lose it if you miss)

[Cigam3679]

ok wait, Unfortunatly so? that a yes i can use the Open the Gates of Battle with Assassin Strike, or was the so suppose to be a no? sorry i think i got some wording mixed up in my mind when i was typing up the original message.

[Tegu8788]

If you are using a Ki Focus that is a weapon, I believe this could be done. No way would Attack Finesse stack, but Assassin's Strike could.

[Cigam3679]

Yea i figured out the Attack Finess wouldnt work without the Weapon Keyword. Then as long as the 2 attacks can stack then that is an amazing combo with a hybrid. i just re-looked at it all, as long as i hit i deal (at level 8) 5d10+15 (15 from Dex mod and Stone Flurry of Blows)) to a enemy thats at full health.

[Badgerish]

re: unfortunately so
Sorry, I thought you where phrasing your question as "I can't use Assassin's Strike with Monk Attacks, can I?"


Trigger: You hit a creature within 5 squares of you with an attack using a weapon.Monk attacks are 'Implement' attacks, so that doesn't trigger IMHO.

If you want to use a magic weapon as your Implement (which you can do, from Hybrid Monk)... then it's arguable I guess. If you had other Implement powers (from multi-class or Dilettante, etc) would you allow Assassin's Strike on Scorching Burst?

Edit: not to say it's overpowered, just against the RAW. Talk to GM to see if it works in their campaign.
I played a Monk (MC Rogue) with a sling as my weapon/implement, that works in RAW but it's a similar result to this.

[Tegu8788]

The Assassin Strike trigger has strange phrasing of:
You hit a creature within 5 squares of you with an attack using a weapon. I read this to mean, italics for defined words as I understand them."You have used an attack against a creature, and hit them with that attack, and that attack used a weapon, and that creature was within 5 squares of you when you hit it, then you trigger Assassin's Strike."

No where does it say anything about the Weapon keyword, and the word "weapon" is lowercased, leading me to think it's not the keyword but just the thing you have in your hand. Weapliments get fuzzy. I've had a lot of fun with Assassin's Strike and Attack Finesse on Eldritch Strike and Virtuous Strike. If you can stack class features onto an MBA substitute power, it hybrids well with with the Executioner. This does nerf my Executioner|Skald that uses a bow, however.

So if you use a Ki Focus club, a weapon that you can also use for implement attacks, like a Songblade or Pact Blade for Bards and Warlocks, then I believe it triggers. A staff is fuzzy itself when it comes to weapon/implement status, but if the attack is made using a weapon, it hits a creature within 5 squares of you, then I'd say it triggers. But if every one of those conditions isn't met, no dice.

[vasharanpaladin]

If you are using a Ki Focus that is a weapon, I believe this could be done. No way would Attack Finesse stack, but Assassin's Strike could.

Sorry, no. You can use a ki focus or a weapon as an implement. Never both. And the power checks keywords, so as long as you're making an implement attack (read: has the "implement" keyword, not the "weapon" keyword), you can't use assassin's strike. Or Attack Finesse.

[Fortuna]

Sorry, no. You can use a ki focus or a weapon as an implement. Never both. And the power checks keywords, so as long as you're making an implement attack (read: has the "implement" keyword, not the "weapon" keyword), you can't use assassin's strike. Or Attack Finesse.

Why does the power check keywords? If a power has the implement keyword, but the implement you're using is a weapon, how does that fail the criterion of 'an attack using a weapon'?

[vasharanpaladin]

Why does the power check keywords? If a power has the implement keyword, but the implement you're using is a weapon, how does that fail the criterion of 'an attack using a weapon'?

Because WotC did a really crappy job of keeping the two separate, mostly. :smallmad:

[Kurald Galain]

Yeah, it's one of the stupider loopholes in 4E that "attack with a weapon" is not the same thing as "weapon attack" (because the former refers to what you're holding in your hand, and the latter refers to the keyword on the power used). Nevertheless it is allowed by RAW. Blame WOTC for sloppy copyediting.

If you want to get technical, then any implement attack using a dagger or staff is an attack "using a weapon" since both dagger and staff are weapons. That's also RAW.