Capabilities of a Spirit Shaman

[AWiz_Abroad]

Hey all,

I'm wondering if you all could help me with some insight,

What is the Spirit Shaman class good at & what are its weak points? Both from a party balence perspective, but also, how would you pvp against one?

Note: I know PvP provokes a lot of "don't do it," and I don't plan on it, but I'd like to know what to expect from a CE Spirit Shaman

TL;DR: Spirit Shaman, pros & cons for party role & pvp.

[Venger]

Hey all,

I'm wondering if you all could help me with some insight,

What is the Spirit Shaman class good at & what are its weak points? Both from a party balence perspective, but also, how would you pvp against one?

Note: I know PvP provokes a lot of "don't do it," and I don't plan on it, but I'd like to know what to expect from a CE Spirit Shaman

TL;DR: Spirit Shaman, pros & cons for party role & pvp.

spirit shamans don't see a ton of play, but this (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19865442/The_Spirit_Shaman_Handbook) is a pretty good place to start.

have you decided which element you want to pick? because that makes a fairly large amount of difference on how you play your character.

[AWiz_Abroad]

Should've specified,

I'm not a spirit shaman. It's another player, who didn't want to do CE, but DoMT is a evil evil artifact. I'm concerned the player may start playing For the Evulz (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ForTheEvulz)
While I can't play optimizer with my own character (Tier 4 with 10% of WBL), I'd like to see if I can balance party roles a bit.

[Greenish]

Spirit shaman's strengths are pretty easy to see: full casting from a core list (which means just about every splat brings new spells) and unique spontaneous casting (can change spells known every day).

The weaknesses of the class aren't that obscure, either. It's casting is MAD (Cha for save DCs, Wis for everything else), and it can know only a few spells (especially the highest level spells) at the time.

[Venger]

Spirit shaman's strengths are pretty easy to see: full casting from a core list (which means just about every splat brings new spells) and unique spontaneous casting (can change spells known every day).

The weaknesses of the class aren't that obscure, either. It's casting is MAD (Cha for save DCs, Wis for everything else), and it can know only a few spells (especially the highest level spells) at the time.

derp. I accidentally gave advice for shugenja.

will your DM allow him to use dynamic priest to make him CHA SAD? that helps mitigate things somewhat.

if not, then he can either prioritize cha and focus on stuff with saves, or more or less ignore it and focus on buffs/stuff without saves

[Piggy Knowles]

Honestly, I think Spirit Shaman is great, and not a huge step down from the standard druid.

It has all the benefits of the spontaneous caster and none of the drawbacks - it gets its new spell levels on odd levels, so it's not behind prepared casters, and it can switch up its known spells every day.

It also gets some solid class abilities with a lot of fun flavor. Nothing as game changing as wild shape, but a lot of cool stuff regardless. Chastise spirits is surprisingly good - it's solid, untyped damage that effects a wide range of enemies (look up the spirit sidebar - there's a lot it hits, including all fey, incorporeal enemies, and several outsiders. It gets free resurrection with no level loss, a contingent heal, plus a few other nice defensive abilities. It can go incorporeal for limited times each day. None of these are out of this world (although the free raising is pretty clutch), but they're all solid abilities for a utility caster.

How would I PvP versus one? Depends on the level. Your big enemy is the druid's spell list. Environmental effects and lockdowns are big, and druids are better at this than just about anyone. Wall of Thorns will completely shut down almost any non-caster without some form of teleportation, for instance - it's basically the druid version of Solid Fog. Control Winds can be another nasty lockdown if they're high enough level to summon a tornado-force gale, too. You'll want some way of resisting these effects. Teleportation is a good start for avoiding it, even if it's something as simple as taking Martial Study for the DimDoor maneuver.

They're also decent blasters and excellent summoners, so beware of things on that front. And if they're level 17 or beyond, their single biggest threat is Shapechange. Shapechange is probably the strongest spell in the game that actually sees play, with the possible exception of Miracle, and if used intelligently it's pretty unstoppable.

[AWiz_Abroad]

Right now ECL 7

Thanks for you input Piggy Knowles.

[nedz]

At level 7 he's going to be spamming whatever 3rd level spell he retrieved today. He'll also know one 4th, though quite what they will be is something you will only find out later.

It's possible to widen the spell selection with Spontaneous Summoner and perhaps Spontaneous Healer feats, though the latter would be quite a poor choice perhaps.

You can build Spirit Shaman's for Melee, Battlefield Control, Summoning or Blasting, though quite what you are facing will depend upon their feat choice and spell selection.

[WhatBigTeeth]

Every time I play them, I manage to be taken aback by how few different spells they retrieve. They get really spammy on a tactical level.

[nedz]

They actually have fewer spells available at 7th than a Sorcerer.
Sorcerer 7: 5x1st, 3x2nd and 2x3rd
Spirit Shaman 7: 3x1st, 3x2nd, 1x3rd and 1x4th

[Piggy Knowles]

They actually have fewer spells available at 7th than a Sorcerer.
Sorcerer 7: 5x1st, 3x2nd and 2x3rd
Spirit Shaman 7: 3x1st, 3x2nd, 1x3rd and 1x4th

True, but they get more spells per day, and I'd rather have a 4th level spell than an extra 3rd and two extra 1st level spells.

At 7th level, unless Greenbound Summoning is on the table, they won't have access to their best BFC/lockdown spell (Wall of Thorns). That makes things a little easier if you're worried about PvP. They still have things like Entangle and Spike Stones, and enough blasting spells to attack you while you're restricted, so watch out for that. Also, at 7th level, staff smashing is still a pretty good melee option - pre-cast Spikes on a staff, then cast Shillelagh or Entangling Staff and beat down. So they could potentially go to melee even without wild shape. Just depends on what spells they've retrieved for the day.

[limejuicepowder]

Grappling is another thing to think about. At 7th, they can summon crocs which have a strong grapple modifier, as well as use entangling kelp - which can be focus-fired on one target, making for multiple grapple checks to escape. Once you're pinned, it's pretty much game over.

[Venger]

Grappling is another thing to think about. At 7th, they can summon crocs which have a strong grapple modifier, as well as use entangling kelp - which can be focus-fired on one target, making for multiple grapple checks to escape. Once you're pinned, it's pretty much game over.

do you mean entangle? or kelpstrand? because kelpstrand grapples, it doesn't entangle.

I love kelpstrand. one of my favorite spells you can even use if you're not beefed up for grappling at that particular time in combat

[limejuicepowder]

do you mean entangle? or kelpstrand? because kelpstrand grapples, it doesn't entangle.

I love kelpstrand. one of my favorite spells you can even use if you're not beefed up for grappling at that particular time in combat

Ah yes, I do mean kelpstrand. Thanks xD

[tiercel]

Since SS spam their handful of spells so hard, there are worse things than going summoner. (You never have more than 3 spells of a given level at a time, though you can change them every day, so... yeah. Spam.)

Since you can retrieve any spell you want, Scribe Scroll et al is an attractive downtime option so that the "I never know more than 3 spells of a given level" thing doesn't keep too tight a lid on your day-to-day utility.

My last SS character was an "upkeep phase" mage: "summon acts, summon acts, creeping cold does more damage, lesser vigor fast heals you, i move my flaming sphere for more damage, and oh! my standard action this round, oh yeah...."

Some of the class features ain't shabby -- chastise spirits is worth not forgetting about, always-on protection from evil spirits can be handy, short-term ethereality at 9th level, and that 10th level guide magic ability (free concentration on a spell) opens up some fun goodies (see the Spirit Shaman handbook section on spellcasting (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19865442/The_Spirit_Shaman_Handbook?post_num=2#338199658)).

As long as you don't mind having a few general spells that you can usefully spam, OR, can pick great spells to spam for *today*, SS is not significantly behind a primarily-casting druid. SS abilities aren't bad, if probably not quite as strong as straight-up wildshape, but OTOH using equipment doesn't devolve into the "all I want for Christmas is another Wilding Clasp" scenario.