[PF]Campaign Idea + Experiment

[Karoht]

*NOTE*
This is an optional ruleset for funzies, and would exist as a possible optimization challenge and challenging setting much like E6. Please take this into consideration.

Magic in the campaign world is locked somehow.

All regular casting progression stops at CL12.
Wizards/Sorcs/Clerics/Oracles/Druids/Witches get 6th level spells
Bards/Inquisitors/Summoners get 4th level spells
Paladins/Rangers get 3rd level spells

At a later point in the campaign, normal spellcasting would be unlocked. This would be a story point resulting in the players actions. Maybe they have to pass a test, complete a quest, have the Gods bestow power on them, whatever. Or, maybe they don't ever fix that problem and proceed to be awesome because they are awesome.

Players would still get their normal spell slots after level 12, but those slots can only be access via metamagic (until they are unlocked of course).
So for example a level 15 sorc would still have 7th level spell slots, but can only cast 6th level spells.

Class features are otherwise not affected. So for example, Summoners would still have access to Summon Monster 7-9 and Gate Spell-Like Abilities.
Limited magic mart as a result. Players might FIND items which require higher spell levels to cast, causing the party to wonder where they came from.

Monster abilities/casting still function as normal. Why are the Dragons unaffected but the other races are? Great question, explore it in game. Ask a Dragon! It could be interesting. It could be a closely guarded secret that they have discovered. It could be a racial thing. It could be some ancient secret.


Heroic Mode Rules!
Delay the ability to learn and cast spells per spell level.
So for example, instead of sorcs getting access to 6th level spells by level 12, they get it by level 16, just a normal 6 spell level progression on classes like Bard. They still get the normal spell slots as normal, mostly to be used for Metamagic.


Ways to be nice to the party
-Staves which still have higher level spells on them. Recharging them could be problematic, likely to require a new method or a fudging of the rules.
-Items which have effects from higher spell levels. For example, True Seeing is a 7th level Spell, a Trueseeing Gem is going to be really valuable.
-Page of Spell Knowledge still function, however the caster must still have spell slots applicable. So if a Wizard has 7th level slots and finds a Knowstone with Planeshift (7th level Conjuration), the Wizard could use that spell.
-LOTS of metamagic rods. Really really encourage metamagic to be a common thing.
-Possibly relax some of the metamagic restrictions. For example, standard action, even for spontaneous casters.


If I were to run it as a campaign, I would actually want a caster heavy party just to see where this goes. 3-4 casters, 2-3 melee.


Questions, comments, concerns, suggestions?
And for the record, no I do not hate casters, rather I feel this could be a great framework for a lower magic campaign with some excellent thematic elements.

[BowStreetRunner]

So how would my item-crafting Warlock be impacted by this?

[Karoht]

So how would my item-crafting Warlock be impacted by this?
Great question!
I'm not familiar with how Warlock's work to be honest (and I'm away from books so I have no way to research it at the moment), especially in Pathfinder. Could you expand on this a bit more? It seems prudent to address this.

[NightbringerGGZ]

So how would my item-crafting Warlock be impacted by this?

Simple! This is Pathfinder so he doesn't exist. :smallbiggrin:

Locking at CL 12 wouldn't have a huge impact on the majority of the game, unless you're planning specifically on this being a high-level game. Remember that most games tend to end at the 12-15 mark.

You'd have some caps on how powerful magical items could get, and I'd imagine the prices of magical items would be higher. Without ready access to the highest level spells I'd imagine most kingdoms would be more mundane.

[Karoht]

Simple! This is Pathfinder so he doesn't exist. :smallbiggrin:True, but I have a feeling that exploring the example might be worth while.
So, what exactly do Warlocks do? I thought they cast spells like other casters.


Locking at CL 12 wouldn't have a huge impact on the majority of the game, unless you're planning specifically on this being a high-level game. Remember that most games tend to end at the 12-15 mark.Part of why I also suggest those 'Heroic Mode' rules which make it more of a progressive thing through all the levels too. But ultimately yes, it would mostly be affecting higher level play without those rules.


You'd have some caps on how powerful magical items could get, and I'd imagine the prices of magical items would be higher. Without ready access to the highest level spells I'd imagine most kingdoms would be more mundane.I think the commonly available items (quite a few items rely on spells 3rd level or lower) would be much more common. The stuff you would find at the magic mart. Anything with 5th and 6th level casting would be rare, anything above that is likely coming from a bizarre and harder to access source.
If Dragons are still full casters (unrestricted for some reason because fluff, monster powers, eldritch secrets, etc), then an item with spells 7th or higher is probably coming from them, or a similar source.
Divine items with spells 7th or higher probably come directly from beings with Divine rank.
Ring of Three Wishes probably only comes from Djinn directly, and are remarkably uncommon.
Candle of Invocation? While there might be a few in the setting, they could very well be only a handful of them, perhaps in the posession of monarchs or other major power factions.
A Scroll with a 9th level spell could possibly be the only one on the planet. As such it is a priceless artifact.
All of the above are examples mind you, but you get the gist. The magic mart gets really wonky, mostly in favor of lower levels of play, but at higher levels it might as well become non-existant.

[BowStreetRunner]

True, but I have a feeling that exploring the example might be worth while.
So, what exactly do Warlocks do? I thought they cast spells like other casters.

Sorry, I wasn't thinking PF-exclusive, I was thinking PF-inclusive, which utilizes the conversion rules to open PF to everything d20, including 3.5.

My main point was twofold. First, warlocks don't have a spell progression, they have a progression of spell-like abilities (invocations). Second, warlocks are great at crafting magic items, which is another way to get around actually casting spells directly. In the case of the warlock, they can even get around the need to have the spell required in the creation of the item.

If there are no equivalent classes with spell-like abilities or supernatural powers in your campaign, then the first part is not an issue. Likewise, if there is no way to get around the requirement of having the spell to create an item, then there is no issue for your campaign.

[Karoht]

Sorry, I wasn't thinking PF-exclusive, I was thinking PF-inclusive, which utilizes the conversion rules to open PF to everything d20, including 3.5.

My main point was twofold. First, warlocks don't have a spell progression, they have a progression of spell-like abilities (invocations). Second, warlocks are great at crafting magic items, which is another way to get around actually casting spells directly. In the case of the warlock, they can even get around the need to have the spell required in the creation of the item.Hypothetically, if I was going PF-Inclusive, I would have to analyze this class further, see how the progression system works for them. It might be the kind of thing that would have to be played by ear.
If I recall correctly Artificers work much the same way.
Yeah, I would need more info before I could make a ruling there. PF-Exclusive might be the rule of thumb for the time being, though I do like discussing odd little outliers such as this because they poke holes in the idea. Problems looking for solutions rather than solutions looking for problems.

[The Trickster]

*NOTE*
This is an optional ruleset for funzies, and would exist as a possible optimization challenge and challenging setting much like E6. Please take this into consideration.

Magic in the campaign world is locked somehow.

All regular casting progression stops at CL12.
Wizards/Sorcs/Clerics/Oracles/Druids/Witches get 6th level spells
Bards/Inquisitors/Summoners get 4th level spells
Paladins/Rangers get 3rd level spells

At a later point in the campaign, normal spellcasting would be unlocked. This would be a story point resulting in the players actions. Maybe they have to pass a test, complete a quest, have the Gods bestow power on them, whatever. Or, maybe they don't ever fix that problem and proceed to be awesome because they are awesome.

Players would still get their normal spell slots after level 12, but those slots can only be access via metamagic (until they are unlocked of course).
So for example a level 15 sorc would still have 7th level spell slots, but can only cast 6th level spells.

Class features are otherwise not affected. So for example, Summoners would still have access to Summon Monster 7-9 and Gate Spell-Like Abilities.
Limited magic mart as a result. Players might FIND items which require higher spell levels to cast, causing the party to wonder where they came from.

Monster abilities/casting still function as normal. Why are the Dragons unaffected but the other races are? Great question, explore it in game. Ask a Dragon! It could be interesting. It could be a closely guarded secret that they have discovered. It could be a racial thing. It could be some ancient secret.


Heroic Mode Rules!
Delay the ability to learn and cast spells per spell level.
So for example, instead of sorcs getting access to 6th level spells by level 12, they get it by level 16, just a normal 6 spell level progression on classes like Bard. They still get the normal spell slots as normal, mostly to be used for Metamagic.


Ways to be nice to the party
-Staves which still have higher level spells on them. Recharging them could be problematic, likely to require a new method or a fudging of the rules.
-Items which have effects from higher spell levels. For example, True Seeing is a 7th level Spell, a Trueseeing Gem is going to be really valuable.
-Page of Spell Knowledge still function, however the caster must still have spell slots applicable. So if a Wizard has 7th level slots and finds a Knowstone with Planeshift (7th level Conjuration), the Wizard could use that spell.
-LOTS of metamagic rods. Really really encourage metamagic to be a common thing.
-Possibly relax some of the metamagic restrictions. For example, standard action, even for spontaneous casters.


If I were to run it as a campaign, I would actually want a caster heavy party just to see where this goes. 3-4 casters, 2-3 melee.


Questions, comments, concerns, suggestions?
And for the record, no I do not hate casters, rather I feel this could be a great framework for a lower magic campaign with some excellent thematic elements.

I kinda like this. It's like Telleh from FF4. I like the idea of getting high level spells as quest rewards in general. Is removing paladin and ranger spells needed? They never seemed ground breaking to me.

[Theprettiestorc]

I, uh...I volunteer for one of the melee characters if you run this! XD.

[Karoht]

@Warlock
It was a good thing I looked into that a little bit. Pathfinder has an SLA based Monk Archetype, which doesn't really have spell levels either.


I kinda like this. It's like Telleh from FF4. I like the idea of getting high level spells as quest rewards in general. Is removing paladin and ranger spells needed? They never seemed ground breaking to me.
There is a good chance that gimping there spell progression isn't necessary and could be relaxed. It just seems unfair to gimp certain casters but not others. On the other hand, yes, their spell progression isn't all that big a deal in the first place, so gimping them seems unnecessary.

Come to think of it, any of the 4 Spell Level casters, I would just leave that to DM's call.
Part of this setting is for challenge, part of it is for flavor. And gimping those casters? It's not making much sense for the challenge factor, it really only seems to affect the flavor. Yeah. DM's call on that one.



I, uh...I volunteer for one of the melee characters if you run this! XD.
I'm not a fan of play by post, but if you live in the area I would gladly give you a shot with our group. Do you live in or around Calgary, Alberta?

[Theprettiestorc]

I'm not a fan of play by post, but if you live in the area I would gladly give you a shot with our group. Do you live in or around Calgary, Alberta?

Oh. Oh, thought it was PbP! XD. Well, I live in Missouri. So nope.