shapeshift variant druid+warshaper?

[Mrgone]

hello great ones. i've decided to play a shapesift variant druid and pick up warshaper as my prc. at first glance i thought about taking warshaper long enough for the stat bumps then getting back into druid. being melee focused, i was wondering if takeing 4 levels of warshapper over 2 would prove more usefull. fast healing looks nice and the extra reach could be pretty darn cool. i'm looking for any advice you can shoot my way. pros are obvious and the cons are steap. what would you go with? also seeing as how i cant cast in shape shift form, would the reserve feats be worth considering. feat wise i'm looking at imp natural att, multi attack, and improved grapple(or power attack insted of imp grapple Pending) to name a few. also with dm aproval i'm looking at bestial charge. its a nice op for pounce and it doesn't require me to spend wild shape uses (wich i dont have lol) makes it seem like it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to qualify for as a shape shift variant. thanks for your time. as always you guys rock the boat.

[Yogibear41]

I'm currently playing a shapeshift druid in one of the games I play in too, I plan on going monk for free AC bonus due to being unarmed in animal form as well as maybe going into fist of the forest, but I also considered taking warshaper too. As far as 2 levels in the class vs 4 it really depends on what you want to do. If you plan to spend most of your time up front in melee losing spells potentially won't be as bad, but if you want to be more versatile 2 levels of spell lose could be a big deal, also if you really want access to the higher level shifts it could be problematic. Also have you looked into maybe using a trip build with it? At level 1 while in shapeshift form my druid has a +10 modifier on his trip attempts I must say its pretty awesome.


On a side note I never even thought about reserve feats for that character, I assume that one can activate them while in shapeshift form?

[Mrgone]

the reserve feats can be used in shape shift form wich is pretty cool. not sure if it would be a nerf compared to other feats. i know with a 2 level dip i'd still eventualy get 9th level casting 4 levels would put a nail in that coffin though. i like the monk spin. i'll have to read into it. how has it played out for you so far?

[Yogibear41]

Still level 1 lol its a very fresh game, think I have enough xp for level 2 though next time we play, but in the middle of a dungeon and we don't level up unless we go somewhere to rest.

[Mrgone]

i looked at the fist of the forest. its a pretty sexy 3 level prc. i can see how having wis+con+dex+ironwood body+na could make for one hell of an ac. think i may roll warshapper for now. i'm with you though. only level 2 at this point so i have some time to think about it.

[Yogibear41]

IronWood body as in warforged? Doesn't that count as armor thereby diqualifying you from the unarmored benefits of both the monk and the fist of the forest?

[Mrgone]

dont think so. pretty sure a reg warforged can be a monk with baked in standard composite plateing. i could be wrong, have been on many cases. i imagine its considered part of his body for purposes of wether hes considered un armored. i know he maintains it when shapeshifted.

[Mrgone]

good question though. gonna look it up. ether way even without ironwood body its still a nasty bump to ac

[Mrgone]

yep composit plating is a go. races of eberron even says its an added bonus of being a warforged monk. an even bigger bonus is that it can be enchanted like armor or even bumped with a feat such as addy body,mithral body, or feats of the like.

[WhatBigTeeth]

The more warshaper you take, the weaker your build gets. How useful that is depends on how hard you want to nerf the druid. The fast healing ability is especially bad in comparison to your losses.

[Yogibear41]

yep composit plating is a go. races of eberron even says its an added bonus of being a warforged monk. an even bigger bonus is that it can be enchanted like armor or even bumped with a feat such as addy body,mithral body, or feats of the like.

Thats Rediculous you could have an AC of over 20 at level one with the right stats...

[Mrgone]

i'll probably only snag 2 levels of warshaper and call it good. that would net me +4 str and con and die size bump to spice up the shape shift variant a little

[darklotus]

Why don't you guys look at taking the Shifter PrC from Masters of the Wild. When you get 5 levels in it you can Greater Wild Shape into a Hyrda that deals 1d10 damage for each head, hydra's always get to make full attack even if they move. With warshaper you can make one head deal 2d8 and also take the Assume Supernatural Ability feat for Breath Weapon and become either a Cryohydra or Pyrohydra and breath cold/fire from each head every 1d4 rounds for 3d6 damage per head. Much more powerful than most druid spells. If you stay with Shifter long enough you also get to shift into Aberrations, Dragons, Undead, Constructs, Outsiders, and at 10th level you can Wild Shape at will. There is also a 4th level spell called Enhance Wild shape that would just make you destroy everything while Wild Shape/Greater Wild Shape

[sleepyphoenixx]

Why don't you guys look at taking the Shifter PrC from Masters of the Wild. When you get 5 levels in it you can Greater Wild Shape into a Hyrda that deals 1d10 damage for each head, hydra's always get to make full attack even if they move. With warshaper you can make one head deal 2d8 and also take the Assume Supernatural Ability feat for Breath Weapon and become either a Cryohydra or Pyrohydra and breath cold/fire from each head every 1d4 rounds for 3d6 damage per head. Much more powerful than most druid spells. If you stay with Shifter long enough you also get to shift into Aberrations, Dragons, Undead, Constructs, Outsiders, and at 10th level you can Wild Shape at will. There is also a 4th level spell called Enhance Wild shape that would just make you destroy everything while Wild Shape/Greater Wild Shape

The Shifter PrC is 3.0 and was updated to the Master of Many Forms in Complete Adventurer.
Also, to shift into a Hydra you need the epic feat Magical Beast Wild Shape since MoMF don't gain the ability to take MB form.

[darklotus]

The Shifter PrC is 3.0 and was updated to the Master of Many Forms in Complete Adventurer.
Also, to shift into a Hydra you need the epic feat Magical Beast Wild Shape since MoMF don't gain the ability to take MB form.

Yes but most DMs allow 3.0 when playing 3.5. I realize that Master of Many Forms is an updated version of Shifter to many but when you look at the two classes they have some major differences such as the ability to morph gear to fit your new form for Shifter and at 10th level you get Greater Wild Shape at will unlike Master of Many Forms; Master of Many Forms gives you Extraordinary Qualities while Shifter doesn't; In my opinion these are two different classes. So I'll just take Shifter and be super powered fighter :smallbiggrin:

[sleepyphoenixx]

Yes but most DMs allow 3.0 when playing 3.5. I realize that Master of Many Forms is an updated version of Shifter but when you look at the two classes they have some major differences such as the ability to morph gear to fit your new form for Shifter and at 10th level you get Greater Wild Shape at will unlike Master of Many Forms. So I'll just take Shifter and be super powered fighter :smallbiggrin:

Most DMs allow 3.0... as long as there is no 3.5 update available.
If you can get it allowed, more power to you. It's not likely at most tables though.
You'll also lose almost all your casting if you go far enough into it to make it worthwhile.

For the OP: you can easily get fast healing from spells, so it's not worth sacrificing 9th level spells for.
In general, all you get out of Warshaper 2 that you can't replicate with spells is the untyped bonus to Str & Con.
The reach is nice but you can get the same from 2 feats (Abberation Blood, Inhuman Reach) without sacrificing caster level if you really want it.

[darklotus]

Most DMs allow 3.0... as long as there is no 3.5 update available.
If you can get it allowed, more power to you. It's not likely at most tables though.
You'll also lose almost all your casting if you go far enough into it to make it worthwhile.

For the OP: you can easily get fast healing from spells, so it's not worth sacrificing 9th level spells for.
In general, all you get out of Warshaper 2 that you can't replicate with spells is the untyped bonus to Str & Con.
The reach is nice but you can get the same from 2 feats (Abberation Blood, Inhuman Reach) without sacrificing caster level if you really want it.

True on the Warshaper...I may only go Warshaper 2 just for that, but I am still planning on taking Shifter 5 at a minimum so I get Magical Beast. Undead, Abberations, Outsiders kinda suck unless you take Assume Supernatural Ability feat multiple times. There is also a feat called Dragon Shape or Form in the Draconomicon which can be taken at 12th level I may take which gives you both Extraordinary and Supernatural Dragon Abilities