Gargoyles help

[Hikarizu]

Not these (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG113.jpg), but these (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygrEVnrg3Ic) gargoyles.

I need help statting gargoyles as race for the campaign I am running. The campaign will feature other Disney material and 80-90's shows if D&D appropriate.
guess what class Quasimodo is
This is what I got so far:
+2 Strength, +4 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma
Gargoyles are hardy and strong, but most of them aren't exceptionally smart and cultural differences make conversation with them a little awkward.
Small/Medium size
Gargoyles vary in size, but most are build like strong humans.
Low-Light Vision
Gargoyles are nocturnal creatures. (extremely so)
Racial Skills: +8 Climb, +10 Jump
Gargoyles are excellent climbers and their wings help them jump far.
A gargoyle is never considered unarmed. He has a claw attack which he can use instead of a weapon/unarmed attack. 1d6/1d4 medium/small
(is it he or she? English is not my first language)
Stone Sleep: (gargwiki.net/Stone_Sleep) The natural phenomenon in gargoyle biology that causes them to turn to "stone" in the daytime. A gargoyle recover 1/2 of his max HP during the sleep. A gargoyle cannot
Wings: As the Dragonborn Dragon Aspect: Wings feature except when noted here:
1-8HD as Glinding, 9+HD as Flight, but always limited to the gargoyle's Constitution modifier rounds per night
Favored Class: Fighter
I am going for +1-2 LA

[Xaktsaroth]

Personally, I'd switch the Str and Con mods. Plenty of examples of high strength in the series, from tearing down doors to ripping off car hoods, but one little laser blast and Goliath goes down like a chump. I'd also put the Cha at -4; they're quite xenophobic, distrustful, and gruff.

As night creatures, I think adding darkvision is completely needed. Since they fly/glide, they probably share similar visual characteristics with hawks and such, so a progressive low light/dark vision based on HD capping at 120 feet sounds about right.

I'd change the Stone Sleep to a simple time dependant Su Flesh to Stone, while in said form, they'd gain Fast Healing 1. At night, the flesh to stone is dispelled.

I prefer this method, as it gives you story room to introduce interesting twists. Like a gargoyle not turning to stone in an anti-magic field, or introducing items that give temporary immunity to such things.

I'd also add on DR 5/adamantite, seems a good compromise for the reduced Con from earlier while adding a sense of toughness.

Gargoyles also seem far more fond of punching things then clawing them. Claws could be shown as the climb bonuses, but from what I remember of the series, attacking using claws only happened 3 or 4 times. Maybe replace with slam?

If you did follow all these changes, I'd put them at high +0 LA or a low +1 LA. That stone sleep is a HUGE downfall.

Hope that helps! :D

[Azoth]

Considering most gun shots bounce off of them harmlessly I think DR5 is a bit low. I think that using the Raptoran (RotW) as a base and modifying them similarly to the Mineral Warrior Template is a good idea.

Something to the effect of:

+4Str -2 Dex +2Con -2Int-2Cha (So neutral ability modifiers. As a whole, with exceptions like Des Demona and Lexington they were not very nimble)

Medium Size with 30' movement and 30ft climb speed.

Powerful Build (Even Lexington was stronger than a person of similar build by far, and this helps account for the fact that even the average height gargoyles stood head and shoulder above people without making them truly Large Size)

DR 8/Adamantine (This shows their skins ability to withstand gunfire/crossbow fire as without bonus damage or adamantine there is no way a medium sized crossbow can hurt them)

+8 racial bonus on jump checks due to wings.

(For flight details, look up Raptorans. I also feel that limiting it to rounds/night is harsh. Perhaps consider constitution number of rounds continuous flight before needing to touch down and rest for at least 5 minutes. There is also somewhere, I think in Raptoran description, where it states that they can divide their continuous flight rounds by gliding in between them as long as they travel in a straight line.)

Either a set of natural claw/slam attacks with damage according to their size and a secondary Tail Slap attack. (Almost all of them are shown at multiple points to slap people away with their tails as naturally as hitting them.)

Sun Weakness: Whenever exposed to Sunlight a gargoyle begins to turn to stone. He is only capable of a single move action before his body transforms entirely to stone. In this state he is treated as stone object of his size (with appropriate hardness) but he retains his normal hit points in this form. While in his stone form, a gargoyle heals at a rate of 1hp per round.

Night's Awakening: If a Gargoyle in stone form (from Sun Weakness or another source such as flesh to stone) is exposed to an area of total darkness for atleast one minute he awakens. This transformation brings the Gargoyle back to its original form allowing it to act normally once again. Any damage received while in stone form that has not been healed still remains in his flesh form.

LA+1

[Waker]

- +4 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma
- -4 Diplomacy when dealing with non-gargoyles
-Gliding. +10 Jump checks when able to use wings.
-Racial Climb Speed 30ft, +8 to Climb, can take a 10.
- 30ft base land speed. Can run at 40ft running on all fours.
-Low-light Vision
-Natural Attacks: Claws (1d4) and Tail (1d6)
-Rage as Level 1 Barbarian
- Stone Sleep (ex): During daylight hours the Gargoyle is undergoes a transformation similar to the effects of Flesh to Stone. This transformation cannot be broken by effects that dispel Flesh to Stone. While transformed the Gargoyle gains Fast Healing 1.
- Stone Body: Due to their biological association with stone, a gargoyle is susceptible to several different magical effects. They suffer a -4 penalty on saves to resist being turned to stone. If exposed to the effects of a daylight spell or similar effect, they turn to stone within the spells affected radius.

I could try to think of more, but I think that is fine. My reasoning for removing the intelligence penalty is that most of the gargoyles are smart enough, just removed from their era. Lexington, Demona and Thailog were all very intelligent. Most people are uneasy around gargoyles though, hence the penalty to diplomacy.
Gargoyles can't fly, only glide. They explicitly say that in the first few episodes/movie.
Excellent climbers, one of their main modes of transportation. Gargoyles are quite fast if they are allowed to run on all fours.
Rage is basically mimicking their eye-glowey goodness when they get all mad. It's during that time that they really rip things in half.
Stone Sleep and Stone Body are there for the big weakness that the race gets. The latter one is more of a nod to a very brief example of this vulnerability where the character got hit with artificial sunlight in a computer-generator VR.

I'd probably suggest sneaking in maybe 1RHD too, but I dunno.

[Preaplanes]

Beware Clerics of Pelor, for starters.

[Hikarizu]

Daylight has nothing to do with the transformation. Even when the gargoyle is in a cave he will turn to stone, maybe several minutes later than one outside, but he will too be stone for the day. Look at the link for Stone Sleep in my first post. As for flying in the show it is noted several times that the gargoyles can't fly at all. They are always gliding, so the dragonborn flight is the closest I know. I have some work now, when I get back I will statt them again. Thanks for the help.
EDIT:
- +4 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma
- -4 Diplomacy when dealing with non-gargoyles
- +4 racial bonus on Spot checks in areas of shadowy illumination.
-Gliding. +10 Jump checks when able to use wings.(as dragonborn's Gliding) After 9HD a gargoyle can fly at 30ft, average maneuverability for CON mod(min 1) rounds per day, not needed to be consecutive.
-Racial Climb Speed 30ft, +8 to Climb, can take a 10.
- 30ft base land speed. Can run at 40ft running on all fours. (when nothing held in hands)
-Low-light Vision (1-8HD as elves, +9HD three times the distance a human can see in shadowy illumination)
-Natural Attacks: 1d8 claw, 1d6 wing ( this natural attacks does not grant bonus attacks when full-attacking, more attacks are granted with more BAB)
-Powerful Build
-Stone Sleep: During daylight hours the Gargoyle is undergoes a transformation similar to the effects of Flesh to Stone. This transformation cannot be broken by effects that dispel Flesh to Stone. While transformed the Gargoyle gains Fast Healing 1. This is not governed by sunlight, but the gargoyle's internal biological clock. The dawn is a reminder that the gargoyle needs to find a save place to sleep. The gargoyle himself cannot delay the transformation with the exception of when helped by powerful magical items(it's happened in the show)
Racial HD 1
BAB 1; Saves +2, 0, 0; Skills 4*(4+int) Class Skills: Intimidate, Climb, Jump, Spot,Survival, Listen; Racial Feat
Favored Class: Fighter.
LA +1

The party is going to be 2nd level when going to castle wyvern.

[Deathkeeper]

I would definitely give them Darkvision. I mean, if you're forcing someone to only ever be active at night, they shouldn't need to carry around candles, unless you're going to make the glowing eyes count as flashlights (which the show did in a few scenes, which I found funny).
I would count it as a clock thing instead of a complete sunlight thing, myself. Not necessarily a body clock thing (what if they teleport to the other side of the planet :smalltongue:?), but if the sun is present over them, which their body is somehow aware of. I would also give them a Fort/Will save to resist Sunlight spells, because insta-'kills' are bad. Also, I would give them a single action before the forced change (they need time to pose).
Definitely add the claws. Just because they don't like giving bleeding wounds to folks doesn't mean they can't. The tail is your choice but I'd include it. I wouldn't add the wing attack.
I don't really know about the Int penalty. Lex learned computer science in under two weeks, but he might be an exception. Although Goliath reads Russian philosophy so maybe not...

[Debihuman]

Gargoyles should be Monstrous Humanoids.

Debby

[Hikarizu]

Gargoyles should be Monstrous Humanoids.

I thought this was obvious and didn't even include it.
As for darkvision: I think it's purely for underground creatures. Owls are nocturnal and they have low-light, not darkvision.
For the int penalty: I could hit cha instead of int again, but give them 4 intimidate bonus. What about the RHD and LA? These are a bit mystery to me.

what if they teleport to the other side of the planet ?
They experience something like jet lag, but adjust in a about a week.

[Deathkeeper]

I thought this was obvious and didn't even include it.
As for darkvision: I think it's purely for underground creatures. Owls are nocturnal and they have low-light, not darkvision.
For the int penalty: I could hit cha instead of int again, but give them 4 intimidate bonus. What about the RHD and LA? These are a bit mystery to me.


Hmm. I suppose it's based entirely on what seems appropriate. I mean, Pathfinder gave Ratfolk darkvision, yet you're right, owls (and normal rats) don't. It's just what seems balanced at that point.
I can't really help with the RHD/LA, as I'm not really confident on how those factor in.

[ksbsnowowl]

I was just discussing a campaign like this with my players. If I did it, I would just make use of Dragonborn of Bahamut with the wings aspect. The different sizes of gargoyles would be reflective of the different base races used with dragonborn. Lexington would be an elf or halfling, while Goliath would be, well, a Goliath.

The problem with using mineral warrior (as someone else suggested) is that mineral warrior very specifically causes the base creature to lose any fly speeds. But, that's only if you were using the template exactly as is; we are in home brew territory, so it's actually not a bad place to start.

They would need a climb speed, obviously.

PS - if they are Monstrous Humanoids, then they have Darkvision by default, as a part of their type.

[Hikarizu]

PS - if they are Monstrous Humanoids, then they have Darkvision by default, as a part of their type.
Specific trumps general. I really don't see them with darkvision.

[UnjustCustos]

Weren't there a few episodes where they were supposed to be able to navigate in the darkness. But so the viewers didn't get bored with a black screen they just made it look like they had flashlights in their eyes?

[Deathkeeper]

Weren't there a few episodes where they were supposed to be able to navigate in the darkness. But so the viewers didn't get bored with a black screen they just made it look like they had flashlights in their eyes?

Yep. In one of Broadway's personal episodes he gets buried under rubble. When he wakes up all that's shown are eye-beams for illumination. I honestly thought that their eyes DO glow, but maybe not that much. I know for sure that it happens in a few scenes with Elisa and she never comments when there's a 'light' in her face.

[The Viscount]

I would recommend 2 claws, or claw and tail in place of claw and wing. I'd consider giving them darkvision. It's really not that huge of an advantage when counting LA; dwarves have it. I believe the gargoyles can see in the dark without much trouble, but it's been a while since I watched it.