Strangest question just came to mind....

[JackRackham]

Say a player was swallowed alive by a colossal or gargantuan creature, a dragon maybe, what DC would you prescribe for an escape artist check to squirm out the other side?

I imagine there would be circumstance modifiers for size category of swallower/swallowee, but this just hit me as a creative way out an I have no idea what sort of DC I would assign as a DM.

Thank you all for indulging my weird thought.

[rot42]

I would say a +4 per size category sounds about right for a circumstance modifier - swallow whole (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#swallowWhole) does exactly what you want it to:smallbiggrin:. Recall that you can use your grapple modifier or Escape Artist check on your turn to escape a grapple.

[Hyde]

Assuming relatively normal anatomies, "coming out the other side" would involve slogging through yards, perhaps even a mile- depending on the size of the creature- of intestines and other things not really suited to an undigested morsel. Putting aside size issues, the character would probably long suffocate.

Anyway, I'd probably borrow the 4e "skill challenge" rules.

[JackRackham]

Assuming relatively normal anatomies, "coming out the other side" would involve slogging through yards, perhaps even a mile- depending on the size of the creature- of intestines and other things not really suited to an undigested morsel. Putting aside size issues, the character would probably long suffocate.

Anyway, I'd probably borrow the 4e "skill challenge" rules.

Interesting. Yeah. But an animal, like a dragon, that was especially carnivorous would have a more direct intestinal tract. So, it might be a problem for a giant, but probably not a dragon. And also, yeah, I expected it to take several rounds.

EDIT: Checked on it and omnivores (represented by humans) have digestive tracts about 10x as long as their bodies. Carnivores about 6x their body length (presumably measuring snout-to-anus, rather than tail). So, 75-300 ft. depending on size and whether it's long or tall, etc.

[rot42]

Oh, you did say "other side", my bad; ew. Escape Artist through the pyloric sphincter, then rejigger the Worm of Minauros (Fiendish Codix II 49)?

[Grinner]

Assuming relatively normal anatomies, "coming out the other side" would involve slogging through yards, perhaps even a mile- depending on the size of the creature- of intestines and other things not really suited to an undigested morsel. Putting aside size issues, the character would probably long suffocate.

So with these complications in mind, how much HP does several layers of intestinal tract, muscle, and skin have, and what's the Swim DC for blood?

[JackRackham]

So with these complications in mind, how much HP does several layers of intestinal tract, muscle, and skin have, and what's the Swim DC for blood?

Well, as gruesome as this is, it should at least ignore natural armor.

[Komatik]

Also, uh. Stomach acid. Or, in a dragon's case, potentially an elemental furnace. Not that it matters much because this is D&D and we have HP.

[KillianHawkeye]

Typically one just cuts their way out the side...........

[Gerrtt]

What are the save DCs for coming into contact with all the bacteria you will come into contact with when moving through the digestive tract, in particular the latter 3rd?

Will there be rules in place for determining whether or not the creature in question happens to be constipated or suffering from some other sort of blockage? How will you deal with them?

What about the hazards of you causing the creature to suffer from a bout of diarrhea as a result of being ingested? Will there be auto damage for being sprayed out the other end?

It could present your player with lots of fun challenges along the way though. A treacherous battle with an entire forest of intestinal cilia? Could be fun. A riveting swim through a sea of filth? Ew, but exciting. Heaven forbid the creature have some sort of dire tape worm.

Personally, I wouldn't allow it with just a skill check because of how much movement is going to have to occur in the span of time that the skill check allows, but it does seem to make for an interesting adventure of it's own if you can survive the environmental hazards.

[Telonius]

I'd treat it as a Maze spell, with a duration of 1 minute. Death if failure. But based on the Lemmiwinks precedent, I'd say he has to aim for going out the mouth.


Long has my spirit been trapped within this place! Before you lies the maze of the small intestine. One path leads to the stomach, the other to certain doom.

[Phelix-Mu]

... but it does seem to make for an interesting adventure of it's own if you can survive the environmental hazards.

Originally read the emphasis as "to make for an intestinal adventure of it's own...." My thought on misreading was "AWESOME, the phrase 'intestinal adventure' just came up in discussion."

So, I guess Dalmosh from MM5 (?) deserves a mention. You could easily jazz up the digestive tract of any colossal critter by adding stuff like this...extradimensional stomach and so forth.

OMG, fiendwurm, too. Always wanted to have a way to use that creature. Nice pic to boot.

[mjlush]

Say a player was swallowed alive by a colossal or gargantuan creature, a dragon maybe, what DC would you prescribe for an escape artist check to squirm out the other side?

I imagine there would be circumstance modifiers for size category of swallower/swallowee, but this just hit me as a creative way out an I have no idea what sort of DC I would assign as a DM.

Thank you all for indulging my weird thought.

Its impossible he would just be going through the motions.

[Venger]

Say a player was swallowed alive by a colossal or gargantuan creature, a dragon maybe, what DC would you prescribe for an escape artist check to squirm out the other side?

I imagine there would be circumstance modifiers for size category of swallower/swallowee, but this just hit me as a creative way out an I have no idea what sort of DC I would assign as a DM.

Thank you all for indulging my weird thought.

>implying this doesn't happen all the time.

not to worry, OP, there are many helpful sections in the rules to answer this question and many others like it. let's start at the beginning, assuming that you have not yet rolled for the dragon's anal circumference, through which of course, you can derive its diameter (since that's what EA DCs are keyed off of):

If the opening less than the character's full normal width, but more than half his width, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#squeezing) you can just do it by taking a -4 to attack and AC.

if the opening is less than half the character's width, but still wider than the character's head (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/escapeArtist.htm), the escape artist DC is a flat 30

if the opening is less than 2 inches (for medium characters) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#escapeArtist) the DC is a flat 80. as per normal, it doubles for each size category larger the character is and halves for each size category smaller he is.

since a gargantuan/colossal creature is very very big, bigger even than, say, a blue whale, which has an anal diameter of about four feet, I don't think that your character should have that much trouble getting out unless he's a giant or something. even then, the dc shouldn't be that difficult if he can take 20 (since if he fails, he's no worse off)

[Amnestic]

I'll be honest, from the way Draconic consumption and digestion is described in the Draconomicon I'm not even sure they do poop. It's not stated one way or another (that I can see, at least) and they make a big deal about storing all the energy from any food they eat to power their breath weapons and the growth spurts they have when advancing an age category.

So...not in the case of dragons, as there is no 'other end', I think :smalltongue:

[MOLOKH]

This actually sounds pretty neat for a mini-quest. Have the insides of whatever swallowed the party or any of it's members be like a maze or dungeon, swarming with giant bacteria, microbes, parasites, oozes, pools of acid, toxic gas, etc. I believe there was an episode of Samurai Jack that did that.

[mjlush]

This actually sounds pretty neat for a mini-quest. Have the insides of whatever swallowed the party or any of it's members be like a maze or dungeon, swarming with giant bacteria, microbes, parasites, oozes, pools of acid, toxic gas, etc. I believe there was an episode of Samurai Jack that did that.

I've speculated (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14796170&postcount=18) about using the Tarrasque as a dumping ground for artifacts that are both indestructible and dangerous and now they want it back

[Alefiend]

It looks like somebody has finally come up with a use for the orifice elasticity rules from FATAL. :smalleek:

[Hyde]

On the note of cutting your way out, and the swim DC of blood-
Intestines, and organs aren't just floating in space- they aren't even held in just by how much there is in such a small space. There are very tough connective tissues that would make navigating outside of the gastrointestinal system... challenging, to say the least. No, given the relative reduced intestinal tract lengths for Carnivores (not sure what a dragon counts as- it's pretty carnivore, and then there's all those minerals and metals... :) it's probably better to tough it out in the intestines. I'd still say most characters aren't gonna make it through the crushing damage alone, but who knows.

[Venger]

This actually sounds pretty neat for a mini-quest. Have the insides of whatever swallowed the party or any of it's members be like a maze or dungeon, swarming with giant bacteria, microbes, parasites, oozes, pools of acid, toxic gas, etc. I believe there was an episode of Samurai Jack that did that.

the previously mentioned Dalmosh of the Infinite Maws (who is indeed from mm5) is already this. the inside of his magical pop'n fresh tummy is an extradimensional space large enough of holding a city with its own society in there.

[Grinner]

On the note of cutting your way out, and the swim DC of blood-
Intestines, and organs aren't just floating in space- they aren't even held in just by how much there is in such a small space. There are very tough connective tissues that would make navigating outside of the gastrointestinal system... challenging, to say the least. No, given the relative reduced intestinal tract lengths for Carnivores (not sure what a dragon counts as- it's pretty carnivore, and then there's all those minerals and metals... :) it's probably better to tough it out in the intestines. I'd still say most characters aren't gonna make it through the crushing damage alone, but who knows.

Cutting through fascia can't be more difficult than muscle and sinew...?

[JackRackham]

It looks like somebody has finally come up with a use for the orifice elasticity rules from FATAL. :smalleek:

Lol. This thought occurred to me as well, but I wasn't going to go there.

[mjlush]

Lol. This thought occurred to me as well, but I wasn't going to go there.

But apparently some escape artist is:smalleek:

[Phelix-Mu]

It looks like somebody has finally come up with a use for the orifice elasticity rules from FATAL. :smalleek:

Usually you can measure the mention of FATAL to the locking of a thread with a ruler. This may be one instance where mention of said rules is (gods preserve us) legit.

[Talionis]

Whether a dragon has another end to get to, I can't help with, but it is less crazy than it sounds since we do have magic and we can travel to planes far less hospitable than a digestive system.

Just watch out for the gizzard...

[Hyde]

Cutting through fascia can't be more difficult than muscle and sinew...?

It's not that the material itself is very resillient (though It's a little more annoying to cut through than muscle, significantly less so than ligaments) it's that it's not just one convenient layer. It'd kinda be like... hmm I'm not ssure what to compare it to... the structure is wrong, but it would be like cutting through a more expansive version of those plastic rings that come on six-packs, rather than just a single sheet of plastic. It'd be easier to get tangled, etc etc.

[Cirrylius]

Also, uh. Stomach acid. Or, in a dragon's case, potentially an elemental furnace. Not that it matters much because this is D&D and we have HP.
As long as they avoid the Draconis Fundamentum, elemental damage shouldn't be an issue, and the regular crushing/acid digestion damage should be clearly listed in the description.

[b300mussolini]

so my rouge is size small and to date he has been swallowed whole no less then 20 times. i think eating my char has been put on the Dm's dungeon check list or something. so i was wondering if there was any way in 3.5 of allowing me to travel through a creatures body easily without taking crushing damage.

i know in PF there is a spell called fluid form that would let me slip in between even the smallest gaps allowing me to move about the monsters body.

basically the next time he has monster X eat my guy i want to be able to say "ok, i cut my way out of his digestive track and now i am going to go stab him in the heart or brain with my knife."

side question do you guys think my rouge would qualify for sneak attack damage in the case of something like this?

[Venger]

so my rouge is size small and to date he has been swallowed whole no less then 20 times. i think eating my char has been put on the Dm's dungeon check list or something. so i was wondering if there was any way in 3.5 of allowing me to travel through a creatures body easily without taking crushing damage.

i know in PF there is a spell called fluid form that would let me slip in between even the smallest gaps allowing me to move about the monsters body.

basically the next time he has monster X eat my guy i want to be able to say "ok, i cut my way out of his digestive track and now i am going to go stab him in the heart or brain with my knife."

side question do you guys think my rouge would qualify for sneak attack damage in the case of something like this?

RAW, you ignore a creature's natural armor bonus when stabbing him in the guts. a reasonable DM would deny dex too because it's not like he could dodge out of the way of an attack from his tum

[Evard]

Wait I thought when you was swallowed whole you didn't go past the gizzard till you died?

[Erik Vale]

They would be sealed in the stomach by a pair of sphynters [misspelt], and are trapped in a acid bath until they are good and almost liquad [the stomach tries not to let wriggles out when it open]. So the first check is if they can open the sphincter [A high, high strength check], and also, why slog through the intestines instead of the mouth? And if they want to cause harm, spiked guantlets to the stomach wall and carve you way out, and should the creature survive, disease will kill it. [Barring a cure disease]

[Tanklin]

Interesting. Yeah. But an animal, like a dragon, that was especially carnivorous would have a more direct intestinal tract. So, it might be a problem for a giant, but probably not a dragon. And also, yeah, I expected it to take several rounds.

EDIT: Checked on it and omnivores (represented by humans) have digestive tracts about 10x as long as their bodies. Carnivores about 6x their body length (presumably measuring snout-to-anus, rather than tail). So, 75-300 ft. depending on size and whether it's long or tall, etc.

Biologist here to the rescue.
To expand the knowledge:

If you try the anal escape route (i think Dragons have cloaca, so it will be cloacal escape route), basically the monster will digest you and you die. You need a way to breath underpoop to exit that way. The spell water breathing is useless in a digestive tract environment. Poop doesn't have enough oxygen like water, because bacteria consumes all the oxygen there. So basically only an acid immune stone golem can survive being pooped by a dragon.

You can try escaping the dragon as a wizard, using iron body to protect you from no-oxygen environment, and cast in yourself an spell giving you acid immunity. You can cast a couple of bigby hands to open the dragon anus for you and exit. (optional)

Or you can use gaseous form spell, and basically exit the dragon as fart. a very loud one.

[Erik Vale]

Or you can use gaseous form spell, and basically exit the dragon as fart. a very loud one.

*Begins breathing normally again*

Ohh that brings such a funny image to mind. Dragon feels a huge fart middle battle, almost stopping it. And then feels a lightning bolt strike it's back. Turning around, it sees that pesky sorcerer.
"Didn't I just eat you?*

[MesiDoomstalker]

*Begins breathing normally again*

Ohh that brings such a funny image to mind. Dragon feels a huge fart middle battle, almost stopping it. And then feels a lightning bolt strike it's back. Turning around, it sees that pesky sorcerer.
"Didn't I just eat you?*

Even better: Ah the 9 Hells, again!?