Playable undead templates/races?

[gurgleflep]

Hello everybody. I'm wanting to have an apocalypse-esque area in my campaign, something to introduce a powerful cult of necromancers that are lead by a lich of some sort - regular, illlithilich, iron lich (monster nomicon), there's quite a few options!

The cult's going to be called The Blooded Skull unless somebody can think of a more gruesome, fearsome name. Just a handful of necromancers scattered throughout the island, each with their own individual type of undead. They're going to be one of the primary encounters of the campaign.

Basically, I want to know of the playable undead templates or races so that they can infiltrate the island, foil the necro/lich union.

TL;DR:
Necromancers and Lich are plotting a takeover. Are there undead templates/races I could use for an infiltration?

[ArcturusV]

Well, Necropolitan is popular because it has no LA, just that you lose a level when you take it, for all the Undead Benefits. There's a few others which are okay. Graveborn Ghoul out of Libris Mortis comes to mind at only +2.

The issue is a lot of Undead Templates have a huge LA. I think mostly because WotC overestimates the Undead Bonuses, like immunity to poisons (Oh, something I haven't really been afraid of since level 3 due to them all having low Fort saves), etc. Not to mention their general over estimating the value of Darkvision.

[gurgleflep]

Well, Necropolitan is popular because it has no LA, just that you lose a level when you take it, for all the Undead Benefits. There's a few others which are okay. Graveborn Ghoul out of Libris Mortis comes to mind at only +2.

The issue is a lot of Undead Templates have a huge LA. I think mostly because WotC overestimates the Undead Bonuses, like immunity to poisons (Oh, something I haven't really been afraid of since level 3 due to them all having low Fort saves), etc. Not to mention their general over estimating the value of Darkvision.

Losing a level to gain it seems pretty reasonable. I'm going to have to look up Graveborn though, as I've not heard of it.

Do you think it would be reasonable to lower some of the other templates LAs due to the overestimated effectiveness?

[Crake]

If the players are only going to be undead temporarily LA becomes less of an issue and necropolitan probably isn't the way to go, since the level loss will remain even when/if they want to revert back to the living when this portion of the campaign is over.

On the other hand, having them become liches is incredibly expensive, money wise, and only casters can actually do that anyway, so even if the money was plot supplied, only those with 11 arcane caster levels could do it.

Vampire is maybe a good option? They'll gain a horrendous LA, but the xp they gain while vampires (despite their increased ECL reducing their xp numbers) will remain when they convert back to life, so they'll potentially level up heaps, think of it as delayed XP rewards.

That is assuming that they want to eventually revert back to normal. If this is a permanent planned change, then necropolitan is probably the way to go.

[ArcturusV]

Maybe. It depends. I think the Vampire template is a bit overpriced at 8. But it's hard to judge because, well, vampire abilities are either really powerful or horrendously crippling depending on the campaign particulars. The Ghoul template at +4 total seems a bit too much for my tastes, but that's me.

The other option is the Monster Classes in Libris Mortis. You can gain them after you gained other levels. You are however "locked in" to that progression once you start to take it. But it only knocks you back one level. And when/if you get Rezzed, you lose your Monster class.

So you could have something like Dwarf Fighter 5, which then acquires the Ghoul/Ghast class, and becomes a Dwarf Fighter 4/Ghoul 1.

[LOTRfan]

Is homebrew acceptable? Because I have a template you might want to use, but it doesn't really fit the fluff.

EDIT: Actually, maybe it could fit. They could be people who have risen spontaneously with the exact purpose of ending this union.

[Waspinator]

Seems like 3.5 could really use a Warforged equivalent for undead. You know, taking a character type normally hard to play and adapting it for PC usage.

[gurgleflep]

If the players are only going to be undead temporarily LA becomes less of an issue and necropolitan probably isn't the way to go, since the level loss will remain even when/if they want to revert back to the living when this portion of the campaign is over.

On the other hand, having them become liches is incredibly expensive, money wise, and only casters can actually do that anyway, so even if the money was plot supplied, only those with 11 arcane caster levels could do it.

Vampire is maybe a good option? They'll gain a horrendous LA, but the xp they gain while vampires (despite their increased ECL reducing their xp numbers) will remain when they convert back to life, so they'll potentially level up heaps, think of it as delayed XP rewards.

That is assuming that they want to eventually revert back to normal. If this is a permanent planned change, then necropolitan is probably the way to go.

Thank you for the suggestion of these two templates.
I don't plan for it to be permanent, but whether or not they keep the undead template is going to be up to them as individuals and as a party. Some of the party will find it conflicts with their religious beliefs, other's will find the undead to be something of a hindrance.

Also, due to horrendous amounts of magic, the island is effectively night time all the time.

[gurgleflep]

Is homebrew acceptable? Because I have a template you might want to use, but it doesn't really fit the fluff.

EDIT: Actually, maybe it could fit. They could be people who have risen spontaneously with the exact purpose of ending this union.

Yes, homebrew is acceptable. Have you got a link to it?


Seems like 3.5 could really use a Warforged equivalent for undead. You know, taking a character type normally hard to play and adapting it for PC usage.

An undead warforged? I'm wondering how this would work other than through magic.

[LOTRfan]

I bring you the Revenant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14861456&postcount=1), a conversion of a 4e race.

Also allow me to show you the Obitu (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/3rd-party-races/alluria-publishing/Obitu), a race of pseudo-undead. It's Pathfinder, so it would be LA +1 in a standard 3.5 game.

[gurgleflep]

I bring you the Revenant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14861456&postcount=1), a conversion of a 4e race.

Also allow me to show you the Obitu (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/3rd-party-races/alluria-publishing/Obitu), a race of pseudo-undead. It's Pathfinder, so it would be LA +1 in a standard 3.5 game.

Thank you for linking me to these :smallsmile:
I'vre read through the Revenant, and it looks pretty promising. The Obitu looks pretty awesome, kinda Samurai like. Edit: I've read through the entire Obitu page you linked to, and it appears to be a race all its own, not a template.

[Waspinator]

Sorry, I phrased that badly. I didn't mean undead Warforged, though that would be interesting. I meant that like how Warforged allow players to play constructs, which normally make bad PCs, we really could use a better option for letting players play undead, which again tend to be bad PCs due to LA.

[gurgleflep]

Sorry, I phrased that badly. I didn't mean undead Warforged, though that would be interesting. I meant that like how Warforged allow players to play constructs, which normally make bad PCs, we really could use a better option for letting players play undead, which again tend to be bad PCs due to LA.

That makes a lot more sense. We could always some of the delightful people over at Homebrew, they're rather helpful/creative/imaginative when it comes to this kind of stuff.

[Coidzor]

Are you familiar with the Frank & K LA 0 version of some undead templates in their Tome of Necromancy (http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=34248)? The relevant portion is over halfway down that page.

[gurgleflep]

Are you familiar with the Frank & K LA 0 version of some undead templates in their Tome of Necromancy (http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=34248)? The relevant portion is over halfway down that page.

No, I'm not familiar with it. I'll check out the link now.
Heck, I wasn't even aware there WAS a Tome of Necromancy.

[KillingAScarab]

This topic reminded me of an idea I had once to try to adapt the spellstitched template (I believe the 3.5 version is found in Complete Arcane, though it may have an incorrect example (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?163311-Complete-Arcane-s-Spellstitched)) to allow for a more playable undead. As I recall, the template did not list a level adjustment, indicating the designers believed it wasn't appropriate for players on its own. You may want to give the template a look for your players, whom I imagine shall want some way to foil a necromancer from just casting control undead upon them; spellstitched provides spell resistance.

The arcane nature of the template may also provide you with the start of an explanation for how they can just lose the undead template. If the runes all over the body are still included, the players may need to find a way to disguise them, I suppose.

[gurgleflep]

This topic reminded me of an idea I had once to try to adapt the spellstitched template (I believe the 3.5 version is found in Complete Arcane, though it may have an incorrect example (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?163311-Complete-Arcane-s-Spellstitched)) to allow for a more playable undead. As I recall, the template did not list a level adjustment, indicating the designers believed it wasn't appropriate for players on its own. You may want to give the template a look for your players, whom I imagine shall want some way to foil a necromancer from just casting control undead upon them; spellstitched provides spell resistance.

The arcane nature of the template may also provide you with the start of an explanation for how they can just lose the undead template. If the runes all over the body are still included, the players may need to find a way to disguise them, I suppose.

They are in CA, but I believe they're also found in Savage Species. I'll take a look at it now, thank you for suggesting it.

Could they hide the runes using sleeves or make-up? I don't know if that'd mess up what they do or not, but it seems within reason.

[Story]

I think mostly because WotC overestimates the Undead Bonuses, like immunity to poisons (Oh, something I haven't really been afraid of since level 3 due to them all having low Fort saves), etc. Not to mention their general over estimating the value of Darkvision.

Overestimating Darkvision? It seems like everything outside of the core races gets it. Sometimes I feel like it's "Hands up everyone who doesn't have darkvision".


Seems like 3.5 could really use a Warforged equivalent for undead. You know, taking a character type normally hard to play and adapting it for PC usage.

Necropolitan is pretty close, but unfortunately, the 3k gp and xp cost means you have to start at level 3.

[Greenish]

Overestimating Darkvision? It seems like everything outside of the core races gets it. Sometimes I feel like it's "Hands up everyone who doesn't have darkvision".'s true they've been relatively generous with it, but I'm not sure it's actually all that more prevalent outside core.

[The Viscount]

Spellstitched is a pretty good template for NPCs, it makes them far more dangerous, but it never received an LA for PC use. I would actually recommend the Gravetouched Ghoul template from LM. The ghoul class is horrendously long, but Gravetouched Ghoul is only LA +2, CR+1. It's quite worth it. Undead is pretty much worth 1 LA as evidenced by Necropolitan saying a level loss is worth having the template. The special qualities and abilities are nice, but the stat adjustments for Gravetouched Ghoul are outstanding a total of +14. You get a bonus to every stat but Con, and that's only because your Con goes to -.

[gurgleflep]

Spellstitched is a pretty good template for NPCs, it makes them far more dangerous, but it never received an LA for PC use. I would actually recommend the Gravetouched Ghoul template from LM. The ghoul class is horrendously long, but Gravetouched Ghoul is only LA +2, CR+1. It's quite worth it. Undead is pretty much worth 1 LA as evidenced by Necropolitan saying a level loss is worth having the template. The special qualities and abilities are nice, but the stat adjustments for Gravetouched Ghoul are outstanding a total of +14. You get a bonus to every stat but Con, and that's only because your Con goes to -.

LM is Libris Mortis, right? I'll take a look at it ASAP.
What exactly does it mean to have - Con? I've never really known how that works.

[ArcturusV]

They're generous with Darkvision, but the seem to think Darkvision is really, really good. Like Half-Orcs. That's supposedly why they got the raw end of the deal for the core player races. Their 60' darkvision is supposed to be equal not only to a -2 in a stat, but also to the host of other minor/major bonuses that other races would get, from Stability and Stonecunning to Bonus Skill/Feat.

Con as: -, means you're immune to Con damage/drain. You have effectively a +0 bonus to your stat for all that applies. And you're immune to any Con buff as well, so if you were an Undead Barbarian, for example, your Rage would always last just 1 round. You'd get no bonus HP, no bonus to Con, etc.

Which sounds silly to mention, but LM actually does have as one of their Monster class examples something like a Undead/Barbarian character...

[gurgleflep]

Necropolitan is pretty close, but unfortunately, the 3k gp and xp cost means you have to start at level 3.

It makes more sense to tack on one LA for necropolitan than to take a level away. Think it'd be safe to do that?

[gurgleflep]

They're generous with Darkvision, but the seem to think Darkvision is really, really good. Like Half-Orcs. That's supposedly why they got the raw end of the deal for the core player races. Their 60' darkvision is supposed to be equal not only to a -2 in a stat, but also to the host of other minor/major bonuses that other races would get, from Stability and Stonecunning to Bonus Skill/Feat.

Con as: -, means you're immune to Con damage/drain. You have effectively a +0 bonus to your stat for all that applies. And you're immune to any Con buff as well, so if you were an Undead Barbarian, for example, your Rage would always last just 1 round. You'd get no bonus HP, no bonus to Con, etc.

Which sounds silly to mention, but LM actually does have as one of their Monster class examples something like a Undead/Barbarian character...

Thank you for telling me how Con - works. Now that I know what it does, it doesn't seem all that bad, especially considering by the time they do go on this adventure everybody'll have a decent amount of health.
An undead barbarian sounds pretty fun. Would they still get fatigued afterwards?

[Preaplanes]

All I know offhand is Lich and Vampire, neither one of which are very good for their LA.

[Archwizard]

Re: Necropolitan, the idea is the ritual kills you, hence the level loss.

Re: Con -, it means literally you have no Con. Your modifier is +0, things that target Con/Fortitude have no effect on you (unless they are harmless or affect objects).

Essentially, since Con is health and whatnot and you're dead, you just don't have it. (Constructs also have Con -.)

[gurgleflep]

All I know offhand is Lich and Vampire, neither one of which are very good for their LA.

I've noticed :/
+8 LA for a vampire doesn't seem to be worth it.

[Archwizard]

Oh and templates:

Fiend Folio has Heucuva and Swordwraith.

Libris Mortis has Gravetouched Ghoul and Evolved Undead (which you can take/apply multiple times).

I'm sure there are more.

Edit: I'm pretty sure Spellstitched first showed up in MMII.

[gurgleflep]

Oh and templates:

Fiend Folio has Heucuva and Swordwraith.

Libris Mortis has Gravetouched Ghoul and Evolved Undead (which you can take/apply multiple times).

I'm sure there are more.

I've heard of the heucuva, but not the swordwraith. What's it like?

Evolved undead sounds interesting, I'll check it out.

[Archwizard]

WotC actually provides it for free here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040202a).

[CIDE]

Curst template if you want to go for that very specific fluff. +3 LA.

[gurgleflep]

WotC actually provides it for free here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040202a).

Thank you for linking to that. I see it changes the HD to d12... is this just racial HD or does that include class HD as well?

[gurgleflep]

Curst template if you want to go for that very specific fluff. +3 LA.

What book would I locate this in?

[Archwizard]

Thank you for linking to that. I see it changes the HD to d12... is this just racial HD or does that include class HD as well?

I believe every undead template does that (undead always have d12s), and it's all HD, regardless of source.

[gurgleflep]

I believe every undead template does that (undead always have d12s), and it's all HD, regardless of source.

Thank you.
Having a d12 probably helps them quite a bit, seeing as they don't get the con modifier bonus.

[Archwizard]

Thank you.
Having a d12 probably helps them quite a bit, seeing as they don't get the con modifier bonus.

I'm sure that's the point. And it's decent, but not huge. 1d12 = 6.5 avg per level. So that's a fighter w/ 12 con, barb w/ 10, cleric w/ 14, etc.

[Sith_Happens]

They're generous with Darkvision, but the seem to think Darkvision is really, really good. Like Half-Orcs. That's supposedly why they got the raw end of the deal for the core player races. Their 60' darkvision is supposed to be equal not only to a -2 in a stat, but also to the host of other minor/major bonuses that other races would get, from Stability and Stonecunning to Bonus Skill/Feat.

Which doesn't really make sense considering that dwarves have Darkvision and do get a fairly long list of decent bonuses.

[Preaplanes]

I've noticed :/
+8 LA for a vampire doesn't seem to be worth it.

Certainly not starting out. However, get to L13 in a non-epic campaign and get turned by one. When the party kills the original, your character is suddenly Epic!

Of course, most DMs would simply have the vampire kill you, but meh, details.

[ArcturusV]

*shrug* I dunno, it's something I've heard before, and seems to apply. Dwarves would stick out as the exception. Maybe it's trading off for the fact that they have only a 20' move speed? I dunno. Seems like a lot of things do get nailed though with things like unjustified LAs, and near as I can figure the one thing that they usually have in common is Darkvision. Sometimes natural armor. +1 or 2 Natural Armor seems to get you pretty hefty penalties as well.

[CIDE]

Curst are in Lost Empires of Faerun, page 165.

+3 natural armor
Slam Attack
Fast Healing 1
Immunity to Cold/Fire
Madness: A curst whose wisdom score is 1 or 2 is afflicted with bouts of madness. In combat, it has a 5% chance each round to behave erratically. On any round this occurs the curst takes no action.
12+level spell resistance
Turning immunity
Unkillable: Only killable through total destruction of the body (immersion in acid, disintegration, undeath to death, etc) or remove the curse (Remove Curse, duh) that's keeping them alive.
Abilities: Str +2, int -4, Wis -6, cha -2
LA: +3

[gurgleflep]

Curst are in Lost Empires of Faerun, page 165.

+3 natural armor
Slam Attack
Fast Healing 1
Immunity to Cold/Fire
Madness: A curst whose wisdom score is 1 or 2 is afflicted with bouts of madness. In combat, it has a 5% chance each round to behave erratically. On any round this occurs the curst takes no action.
12+level spell resistance
Turning immunity
Unkillable: Only killable through total destruction of the body (immersion in acid, disintegration, undeath to death, etc) or remove the curse (Remove Curse, duh) that's keeping them alive.
Abilities: Str +2, int -4, Wis -6, cha -2
LA: +3

It seems pretty reasonable. I particularly like the unkillable segment, it could keep the party alive.

[Preaplanes]

It seems pretty reasonable. I particularly like the unkillable segment, it could keep the party alive.
I was going to say that looked OP until I saw the abilities on that thing. Now I'm not sure what to make of it.

[Coidzor]

That reminds me. They're not templates, but have you run into Ghostwalk before?

[gurgleflep]

That reminds me. They're not templates, but have you run into Ghostwalk before?

We have the book, but I've not looked at anything but a handful of times.

[Coidzor]

We have the book, but I've not looked at anything but a handful of times.

Well, I'd recommend against doing it without also allowing for retraining those levels, but the classes in that book may be of interest for this purpose. I believe the 3.5 errata is up on the WOTC site still.

[Story]

Con as: -, means you're immune to Con damage/drain. You have effectively a +0 bonus to your stat for all that applies. And you're immune to any Con buff as well, so if you were an Undead Barbarian, for example, your Rage would always last just 1 round. You'd get no bonus HP, no bonus to Con, etc.

You also use Cha instead of Con for Concentration checks. And you are immune to any effect requiring a fort save unless it also affects objects. (Not sure if this is a general rule for no Con, or specific to undead).

Also, the rage lasts 3 rounds, not 1.




An undead barbarian sounds pretty fun. Would they still get fatigued afterwards?

No, because undead are immune to fatigue.


It makes more sense to tack on one LA for necropolitan than to take a level away. Think it'd be safe to do that?

It's effectively a LA1 with automatic buyoff, so if you're using LA Buyoff, it won't make any difference.

[gurgleflep]

You also use Cha instead of Con for Concentration checks. And you are immune to any effect requiring a fort save unless it also affects objects. (Not sure if this is a general rule for no Con, or specific to undead).
Also, the rage lasts 3 rounds, not 1.

No, because undead are immune to fatigue.

It's effectively a LA1 with automatic buyoff, so if you're using LA Buyoff, it won't make any difference.

The three rounds of rage instead of one and fatigue immunity are awesome, thank you for telling me this.
I don't use Buyoff as I don't know how it works as well as I feel it should.

[Amnestic]

Should probably mention (third party) that the WoWRPG has the Forsaken, which are LA+0.
+2 Str, -2 Dex
Medium
Undead Traits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm)

And that's about it. I don't see mention of the HD=Always d12 stuff in their description but I don't know if that's a specific thing that needs to be stated or a general thing that applies to all undead.

Dunno if it'll help at this point, but hey-ho.

[gurgleflep]

Should probably mention (third party) that the WoWRPG has the Forsaken, which are LA+0.
+2 Str, -2 Dex
Medium
Undead Traits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm)

And that's about it. I don't see mention of the HD=Always d12 stuff in their description but I don't know if that's a specific thing that needs to be stated or a general thing that applies to all undead.

Dunno if it'll help at this point, but hey-ho.

There's a WoWRPG? :smallconfused:
Any help is help, and I thank you for this.

[Amnestic]

There's a WoWRPG? :smallconfused:
Any help is help, and I thank you for this.

Yes. (http://www.wowpedia.org/Warcraft_RPG) The booklist there shows a breakdown - "Warcraft RPG" was everything pre-WoW, and "WoWRPG" was books that came out post-WoW (signified by their 'The Roleplaying Game books) and had a more WoW spin on stuff.

[CIDE]

It seems pretty reasonable. I particularly like the unkillable segment, it could keep the party alive.

Yeah, I was wanting to use this template for a Wiz/Sorc spellcaster that THOUGHT he was a fighter and donned beat up old rusty armor (complete with the arcane spell failure) and beat up old weapons and rush into combat. On random rolls I'd have him remember that he had a spell for X situation.

Even with a higher Wis score than listed in the template I would've also kept the insanity thing too.

[Waspinator]

Yeah, the Warcraft d20 stuff basically should be split in two groups. There's "Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game", which is basically Warcraft III material for D&D 3.5, and then there's "World of Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game", which changes things a lot more.

The pre-WOW Manual of Monsters has this:

Forsaken
Change type to undead, do not recalculate BAB, saves, skills
Change all current and future HD to d12
Speed unchanged
Natural armor increases by 1
Frenzy: extra attack at 1/4 of highest modifier and +2 strength bonus, -4 AC, for 10 rounds
Immune to disease, mind-affecting attacks, paralysis, sleep
+4 bonus vs fear
+4 turn resistance
+2 strength, -2 dexterity, no constitution
hated by animals, lose all ranks in handle animal
+1 Level Adjustment

[Coidzor]

And that's about it. I don't see mention of the HD=Always d12 stuff in their description but I don't know if that's a specific thing that needs to be stated or a general thing that applies to all undead.

Mummy lords seem to be generally taken as an indication that it's not a given at least. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/mummy.htm)

[LOTRfan]

I would like to think that the Mummy Lord's d8 hit dice was an oversight, though, mostly because the mummified creature template replaces all current and future hit dice to d12.

[gurgleflep]

Yeah, the Warcraft d20 stuff basically should be split in two groups. There's "Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game", which is basically Warcraft III material for D&D 3.5, and then there's "World of Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game", which changes things a lot more.

The pre-WOW Manual of Monsters has this:

Forsaken
Change type to undead, do not recalculate BAB, saves, skills
Change all current and future HD to d12
Speed unchanged
Natural armor increases by 1
Frenzy: extra attack at 1/4 of highest modifier and +2 strength bonus, -4 AC, for 10 rounds
Immune to disease, mind-affecting attacks, paralysis, sleep
+4 bonus vs fear
+4 turn resistance
+2 strength, -2 dexterity, no constitution
hated by animals, lose all ranks in handle animal
+1 Level Adjustment

Are there books for the WoW stuff? It seems rather interesting... plus one of the players wants to play as a Death Knight or something like that and I would very much like to check it out.


I would like to think that the Mummy Lord's d8 hit dice was an oversight, though, mostly because the mummified creature template replaces all current and future hit dice to d12.

Where can I find the mummy lord and mummy template?

[LOTRfan]

Mummy Lord is in the Mummy entry of the SRD, which Coidzor has already kindly linked. The mummified creature can be found in a couple of sources, if I remember correctly, but the only one I can think of by name right now is Savage Species.

[gurgleflep]

Mummy Lord is in the Mummy entry of the SRD, which Coidzor has already kindly linked. The mummified creature can be found in a couple of sources, if I remember correctly, but the only one I can think of by name right now is Savage Species.

I saw that he had linked and I'm checking it out now, I just didn't recall which book it was in. Thank you for giving me a title :smallsmile:

[Andion Isurand]

The mortifs from Dragon Magazine 313 can be made humanoids with the deathtouched subtype.... effectively mirroring the lesser planetouched from the PGtF.

Among other things, they get -2 Con, +2 Wis and +4 Cha and normally have have an LA of +1.

---------------------------------------------

The Forsaken in WoW are treated like the other races and do not interact with things in the same way that normal WoW undead do, and behave a lot more like living creatures. Based on their abilities in the game, I would give them -2 Dex, -2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha... reflecting the base stat array they possess.

19 strength
18 agility
21 stamina
18 intelligence
25 spirit


Here is my take on the WoW races (http://magerune.blogspot.com/2012/11/races-adapted-from-wow.html) as well as the Pandaren (http://magerune.blogspot.com/2012/06/ursine-race.html) and Eredar (http://magerune.blogspot.com/2011/10/eredar-race.html).

[TuggyNE]

You also use Cha instead of Con for Concentration checks. And you are immune to any effect requiring a fort save unless it also affects objects. (Not sure if this is a general rule for no Con, or specific to undead).

Both undead and constructs are immune to Fort save effects, and it's difficult (impossible?) to have Con - without being either undead or a construct. But technically it's not a general rule. Constructs do not use Cha for Concentration, however.

[Story]

What I remember from the previous time this discussion came up is that the consensus is that the mummy is probably a mistake and undead changes all HD to d12.

Apparently, every single example undead with class levels has full d12 hd with the exception of that one mummy. Of course, it's impossible to tell for sure, because it's possible that the examples are assuming all the monsters got turned at their current level.

[Amnestic]

Are there books for the WoW stuff? It seems rather interesting... plus one of the players wants to play as a Death Knight or something like that and I would very much like to check it out.



There are, but they're long since out of print and generally command ridiculously high prices online.

[gurgleflep]

There are, but they're long since out of print and generally command ridiculously high prices online.

That stinks :smallfrown:

[Waspinator]

The books have a pretty open-ended technology system, which is cool. Heavily dependent on the DM making sure they don't design something broken, though. And some of the pre-designed items are amazing:

http://i.imgur.com/phzabrel.jpg

[gurgleflep]

The books have a pretty open-ended technology system, which is cool. Heavily dependent on the DM making sure they don't design something broken, though. And some of the pre-designed items are amazing:

http://i.imgur.com/phzabrel.jpg

Is there a sucker in that..?

[TuggyNE]

Is there a sucker in that..?

Yes. Yes there is.

Gotta do something with all those suckers born every minute, right?

[Waspinator]

I guess you never know when you're going to need a lollipop while making duck calls.

[Coidzor]

Mummy Lord is in the Mummy entry of the SRD, which Coidzor has already kindly linked. The mummified creature can be found in a couple of sources, if I remember correctly, but the only one I can think of by name right now is Savage Species.

Mummified creature really is what should be used anyway as I recall.

[The Viscount]

Mummy Lord is in the Mummy entry of the SRD, which Coidzor has already kindly linked. The mummified creature can be found in a couple of sources, if I remember correctly, but the only one I can think of by name right now is Savage Species.


I would like to think that the Mummy Lord's d8 hit dice was an oversight, though, mostly because the mummified creature template replaces all current and future hit dice to d12.

The mummy lord presented in Monster Manual and the srd is a bit of an odd duck, but consider that it was a mummy, the monster, not the template, that took levels in cleric. The advancement section of mummy might prevent this, so also consider that this mummy lord is treated as having suddenly gained 8 mummy HD for becoming a mummy. It doesn't use mummified template, so the problem about current and future HD doesn't come up.

[KillingAScarab]

Yeah, the Warcraft d20 stuff basically should be split in two groups. There's "Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game", which is basically Warcraft III material for D&D 3.5, and then there's "World of Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game", which changes things a lot more.Was Warcraft: the Roleplaying Game actually 3.5? I know it was released very close to 3.5, and I played in a game where someone played a troll out of that book (http://www.wowwiki.com/Warcraft:_The_Roleplaying_Game), but I don't know what sort of conversion went on other than some cosmic loopholes were created to allow it. If so, Forsaken may be just the thing, only needing something to replace frenzy.

Also, gurgleflep, regarding your earlier questions about the lack of a listed constitution, the term you want to look up is nonabilities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#nonabilities). Rules Compendium has a little more to say than the SRD does, including that part about using charisma as the base attribute for concentration when you have constitution as a nonability.