OOTS #882 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Domino Quartz]

Heh. Always good to see some more father-son dynamics from Tarquin and Nale.

[Magic Myrmidon]

Yay, more secret stuff.

I always love genre savvy stuff.

[Mastikator]

I wonder what Tarqin has up his sleeve...

[Finagle]

How did Malack climb the stairs? :smallamused:

[Alaris]

And Malack the ever-smart prepared multiple "Protection from Daylight" spells that day. :P Or maybe he does that every day, in case of "Dispel Magics."

[SadisticFishing]

I liked this one a lot.

[Yendor]

Punching holes in the fourth wall never gets old. :smallamused:

[hamishspence]

Being genre savvy seems to be one of Tarquin's biggest traits.

And it does make me wonder what Tarquin's conspicuously not speaking about.

[JustWantedToSay]

I think it's worth noting that the thrall showed no reaction to Nale saying the name 'Durkon.'

[Kol Korran]

I just love this comic's villains. on one way you despise them, on another you like them, and you can't help but respect them, and wish you could see more of their shenanigans. :smallwink:

And that's REALLY isn't easy to do... throwing my bunch of kudos to the ridiculous heap of kudos already present Giant.

It is quite weird though to pass from a moment of utter crisis, character development and touching moments of the OOTS, to the bitter/ playful light hearted banter of the Linear Guild. This is going to be tough...

[Vemynal]

omg! the cliff hanger!

[ti'esar]

Tarquin's a repulsive misogynistic mass-murdering tyrant, but he brings the fourth-wall-breaking punchlines like few other characters (not to mention his banter with Nale). Hilarious.

:smallbiggrin:

[Obscure Blade]

I think it's worth noting that the thrall showed no reaction to Nale saying the name 'Durkon.'
Yes; I think he's your basic undead-automaton at the moment, until Malack releases him. A Generic Vampire, not really "Durkon the Vampire".

It'll be interesting to see what happens when he is released.

[pasta]

Before they left the city, Tarquin ... what?

Any ideas, anyone? :smallconfused:

[Psyren]

Makes you wonder the circumstances under which Nale had to dispose of Malack's previous "children." (And why he didn't have more levels on Elan by the time they met, if he was able to take out several vampires while the Order was still running from Goblins.)

[Alignment]

Yay, more Tarquin! And more of the genre-savviness with which he is associated. It will be interesting to learn what he is planning.

[Ir0npanda]

Thank You Giant

Malack doesn't seem to be happy that he had to kill Durkon. Cue more 50 page Malack alignment arguments

[Killer Angel]

I love how Malack doesn't reveal the true nature of the "relationship" with Durkon, and let the other think that the dwarf is a mere spawn... :smallamused:

[Layyzor]

awww.... Father and son, what weekend projects they might have!

[Ron Miel]

Before they left the city, Tarquin ... what?

Any ideas, anyone? :smallconfused:


... dug up Thog, who is still alive.

[Issabella]

That is one mightly large Lampshade hung there Mr. Giant! :)

[Obscure Blade]

Before they left the city, Tarquin ... what?

Any ideas, anyone? :smallconfused:
Arranged for a significant military force to be teleported/airlifted nearby? It would make sense; if Tarquin is planning to secure the Gate for himself, he'd want guards so he doesn't have to stay there.

And storywise they'd make good Meteor Swarm-fodder for Xykon when he shows up.

[Cavenskull]

How did Malack climb the stairs? :smallamused:
The same way any well-dressed snake does.

[nonamearisto]

I think it's fair to say that the fourth wall now has more holes in it than Swiss cheese. lol

[Souju]

well, from what i remember about developing vampires for a campaign i ran, vampires are a template. It's reasonable to assume the vampires he killed were fairly low level, or that he engaged in trickery to win the fight
From Malack's general attitude about the whole thing, it seems like he killed all three in a single encounter. And/Or he probably did it alone or with just Thog, as Malack always goes STRAIGHT for him and doesn't seem to pay Sabine much mind.
Maybe...the incident and Nale's first meeting with Sabine are related? Ooooo

And then...thing Tarquin did before leaving the capitol...maybe he executed all the gladiators? Maybe he marched the armies against something? Ordered someone dead? Allowed another nation to take it over?
Craft(Theory) was such a good thing to put ranks in...

[Mike Havran]

I guess someone took Greater Savviness (with Improved Savviness as a prereq.) as a feat :smallcool:

Loved the dialogues through and through. The heartfelt Tarquin-Nale exchange was probably the best.

[thatSeniorGuy]

:nale: You vampirized Durkon?? That's hilarious!!
Ooooh just you wait Nale, you'll get yours ....

Also, maybe those wanting to see a fight between all of Team Tarquin and Team Evil are going to get their wish granted (based on the last panel) ...

[Ir0npanda]

Craft(Theory) was such a good thing to put ranks in...


Nothing beats Craft(Disturbing Mental Image)

:belkar:

[Lorin]

Wow. Now THAT's interesting. Let the speculation begin!

[sparky9042]

Time to speculate needlessly on what it is Kilkil and Tarquin are keeping secret, and who it's being kept secret from!

...I've got nothing.

Although I'm interested in potentially seeing more of Kilkil.

[Quild]

What is Nale's face on first panel for?

Did he expect Malack not to come back?

[sparky9042]

Probably shock at Durkula's sudden appearance.

[Giggling Ghast]

What is Nale's face on first panel for?

Did he expect Malack not to come back?

Not with a vampirized Durkon in tow, no.

[Mike Havran]

Does anyone else thinks that the fact we didn't see Zz'dtri's reaction to the vampirism may be important a bit later?

[Torrasque]

Yay a new strip and more durkon/malack ... i have found that i cant seem to care about much else going on untill i found out what happens with released durkon :)

[The Succubus]

For a blood drained lifeless husk created from a much loved party member, does anyone else find Baby Durkula adorable? ^_^

[watupwithdat]

I love how Malack doesn't reveal the true nature of the "relationship" with Durkon, and let the other think that the dwarf is a mere spawn... :smallamused:

Maybe because he is a mere spawn for the moment?

[FlawedParadigm]

I suppose being a spawn must have made Durkon mindless as well as subservient. He apparently forgot vampires don't like the sun, or is unaware he is one somehow.

As for speculating...eh. It's all just guessing at this point. Rich left us two or three letters short of any kind of clue.

Interesting that Nale isn't more worried at this point. His usefulness just expired; unless Durkon also suddenly forgot everything else he knew before, as soon as Malack says "tell us everything you know about your group and your mission, omit nothing", Durkon will start babbling about the Order, and Xykon, and the fact that he may be on his way soon.

Unless I'm very much mistaken, Tarquin would be able to handle his own diplomacy from there on out without relying on Nale's tenuous past connection with Xykon.

Although I wonder if Tarquin actually intends to hand Nale over to Malack or was just saying that to Malack to avoid conflict between them. Who does Tarquin have more loyalty to, his adventuring buddy and co-conspirator of 35 odd years, or his son of some 20 years who shares his blood?

Now that's my kind of speculation. Heh.

[hamishspence]

I suppose being a spawn must have made Durkon mindless as well as subservient. He apparently forgot vampires don't like the sun, or is unaware he is one somehow.

Strictly he's a full Vampire- he's just a bit lacking in free will at the moment.

[Codyage]

Hmm, Kilkil's line about the Father of the Year award just seems off. I can't tell if it is a joke, or maybe a clue to something we don't know about? It just doesn't seem to fit.

Unless he is making a joke with Tarquin's relationship with Nale. But Tarquin responds with put it with all the others.

I can't tell if Tarquin and Kilkil are making a joke together, or if the FotYA is some how important.

[Carl]

Ok, interesting. also, yay update.

No idea where this is going...

[Psyren]

I suppose being a spawn must have made Durkon mindless as well as subservient. He apparently forgot vampires don't like the sun, or is unaware he is one somehow.

My guess is that little exchange was for our benefit, so we would know that Durkon's been warded now.


:nale: You vampirized Durkon?? That's hilarious!!
Ooooh just you wait Nale, you'll get yours ....

Yeah that comment made me want to strangle Nale slightly more than usual :smallannoyed:

[i6uuaq]

Also, maybe those wanting to see a fight between all of Team Tarquin and Team Evil are going to get their wish granted (based on the last panel) ...

Best guess yet, although the thread is still young.

[factotum]

well, from what i remember about developing vampires for a campaign i ran, vampires are a template. It's reasonable to assume the vampires he killed were fairly low level, or that he engaged in trickery to win the fight

They could also have been Vampire Spawn, who are only CR4 and thus somewhat easier to deal with than a full-fledged vampire.

[Ir0npanda]

If you use the vampire template, the affected character doesnt even become undead until he takes 7 levels in Vampire. He doesn't even have sunlight vulnerability of any sort for the first 4 levels IIRC

You don't have to take past level 4 in the template and that already gives you most of the goodies including stat bonuses, con-drain bite that heals you, and gaseous form to escape death (and you are still living at this point, and immune to sunlight!!)

https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a

[Terbovus]

Oooo! Smashing job, can't wait now... :smallwink:

[hamishspence]

Those templates are aimed at PCs though.

Under normal circumstances, if a character gets drained to death by a vampire, they'll come back with all the abilities of the vampire template.

[Terbovus]

Time to speculate needlessly on what it is Kilkil and Tarquin are keeping secret, and who it's being kept secret from!


Us, obviously! :smallwink:

[Ir0npanda]

Those templates are aimed at PCs though.

Durkon is a PC

(Elan is a Mac)

:elan:

[LuPuWei]

Tarquin and Malack :smallsmile:

[recluso]

Malack is quite careless.
He could have warded Durkon an hour ago! He even treats Kilkil first.

So Malack once lost a real living child? Or a real living love? (the cherished relationship).

Finally... guess this is the crowning moment of Fourth Wall Breaking.
Tarquin listening to his own dialogue and drawing conclusions from the form.

[Nidhögg]

Makes you wonder the circumstances under which Nale had to dispose of Malack's previous "children." (And why he didn't have more levels on Elan by the time they met, if he was able to take out several vampires while the Order was still running from Goblins.)

Would it be possible that if Malack's children relied as much as Malack upon Protection from Sunlight, Nale just lured them out in full daylight without any chance of quick cover and then dispelled their protection?
Just a thought. Don't know enough of the gaming mechanics to know if such an "easy" win is even possible. :)

Also, very funny page. :)

[Eisenfavl]

Interesting that Tarquin seems to be saying that he used to draw some form of pleasure from parenthood, prior to the reveal of Nale's staggering unlikeability.
Gives us some insight into pre-split family dynamics.

[AngryHobbit]

"Oh, crap! Another one!" expression on Nale's face was priceless.

[Icedaemon]

Tarquin is still a wonderful character to see, despite if not partially because of his shameless villainy.


And Malack the ever-smart prepared multiple "Protection from Daylight" spells that day. :P Or maybe he does that every day, in case of "Dispel Magics."

The latter case seems like the more obvious answer.


Makes you wonder the circumstances under which Nale had to dispose of Malack's previous "children." (And why he didn't have more levels on Elan by the time they met, if he was able to take out several vampires while the Order was still running from Goblins.)

Given how Nale has an abysmal build and yet had a distinct advantage over Elan during their first fight, I would posit that unlike many other rivals, Nale did start out with several levels on Elan if not the whole Order in part due to him killing those vampire spawn, but has not maintained his lead.

[Mr Teufel]

I think Nale finds vampires truly horrifying. Although he seems to be used to Malack, he does keep Malack between Durkon and himself. I think the reason he killed Malacks spawn might be more complex than it seems.

[sam79]

More fuel for the debate about how much of Durkon remains in Vamped Durkon.

More good genre-savvy stuff from Tarquin.

More points on the Really Needs a Slap Meter for Nale.

The Father of the Year award thing; a slightly awkward joke, I think, but one that reminded me of a gag from the British 50's radio comedy, The Goon Show.

"Sir, the US 7th fleet is ready sir."

"Put it with the others. I'll smoke it later".

And as for the thing they did before leaving the city...well, no idea.

[DreadArchon]

Hahaha, I loved the dialog on this page. All of it. :smallbiggrin:

[Batpope Scott]

Malack is quite careless.
He could have warded Durkon an hour ago! He even treats Kilkil first.

So Malack once lost a real living child? Or a real living love? (the cherished relationship).

Finally... guess this is the crowning moment of Fourth Wall Breaking.
Tarquin listening to his own dialogue and drawing conclusions from the form.

I think the cherished relationship bit was about how Malack and Durkon both cherished their friendship before the Durk figured out about the whole vampirism thing.

[Burner28]

Before they left the city, Tarquin ... what?

Any ideas, anyone? :smallconfused:

I have no idea.

[Kareasint]

(Elan is a Mac)

:elan:

Does that make Haley "software?" :smallbiggrin:

I get the feeling that Malack's previous spawn were killed by Nale during his attempt to seize power from the Empress of Blood.

I really loved the last panel. It is going to be fun watching that secret get discussed into an early grave in the forums.

[Chantelune]

Does anyone else thinks that the fact we didn't see Zz'dtri's reaction to the vampirism may be important a bit later?

No. Z is shown only once in this strip and only his back, so we don't even see his expression. And he's usually so stoic that it would be more surprising to see him having a reaction at all.

Nice strip, though, was looking forward to Nale's reaction to Durkon's new condition. ^^

[mawexzon]

Looks like we got a breather episode.

[ChaosMarine1992]

Go Tarquin. With his mastery of the narrative framework, HE should be ruling the universe by now.

[Zephyr1011]

Does anyone else thinks that the fact we didn't see Zz'dtri's reaction to the vampirism may be important a bit later?

ZZ'drti has been clearly stated to "not speak much". I do not think there is anything you can infer from what he doesn't say.

[Zephyr1011]

Go Tarquin. With his mastery of the narrative framework, HE should be ruling the universe by now.

Well, he does pretty much rule the entire Western Continent.

[Welf]

Heh, father of the year. I wonder if the competition was entirely fair?

[elros]

Now we have two hidden subplots:
1) What did Tarquin order before he left the City?
2) Elan's "top secret plan" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0836.html) that involves Durkon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0837.html).
Can't wait!

[ReaderAt2046]

1. Seeing Tarquin use Genre Savviness as an intelligence-gathering mechanism is very neat, as is watching the LG have a goof-out moment. I see now why Tarquin likes being around :elan: so much.

2. Before leaving the city, Tarquin...made contact with the drow and asked for an assassin squad in return for all those fruit baskets?

[Agnostik]

Well, this is embarrassing. I spent a few minutes trying to figure out what vampiric ability Malack uses on Kilkil in panel 5...

Then I realized he's a cleric. Duh! :smallredface:

[ReaderAt2046]

Heh, father of the year. I wonder if the competition was entirely fair?

Considering what we've seen of the Western Continent, maybe he did win it fairly.

[Kish]

If you use the vampire template, the affected character doesnt even become undead until he takes 7 levels in Vampire. He doesn't even have sunlight vulnerability of any sort for the first 4 levels IIRC

You don't have to take past level 4 in the template and that already gives you most of the goodies including stat bonuses, con-drain bite that heals you, and gaseous form to escape death (and you are still living at this point, and immune to sunlight!!)

https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a
You...realize that "the class version of a template" is not the same as "the only version of a template," or even "the default version of a template," right?

Durkon is clearly a vampire now. He is not "return(ed) to a tenuous life, slowly succumbing to the seductive lure of the vampire's hunger, sharpened senses, and evil nature."

Hmm, Kilkil's line about the Father of the Year award just seems off. I can't tell if it is a joke, or maybe a clue to something we don't know about? It just doesn't seem to fit.
It's a clue that Tarquin's concept of "Father of the Year" has little to do with anything anyone but Tarquin would consider to be a good father.

And everything to do with being Tarquin, and thus deserving all the awards automatically.

[Sunken Valley]

"a once-cherished relationship that died painfully"

That line alone justifies an LG prequel book.

[Deuce]

Considering what we've seen of the Western Continent, maybe he did win it fairly.

No, I'm pretty sure fairness is illegal in the Empire of Blood.

[Chessgeek]

Thank you Giant for adding "ameliorate" to my vocabulary.

Oh yeah, and that comic thing you do.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Oh god, what does Tarquin have up his sleeve now?

[Kish]

"a once-cherished relationship that died painfully"

That line alone justifies an LG prequel book.
It might well be referring to Tarquin's relationship with his first wife.

[SaintRidley]

Does anyone else thinks that the fact we didn't see Zz'dtri's reaction to the vampirism may be important a bit later?

If you're suggesting that Zz'dtri is a vampire, I believe the correct proclamation is "Sneak Attack (does not work on the Undead), bitch." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0800.html)

[Sunken Valley]

It might well be referring to Tarquin's relationship with his first wife.

That definition also applies to Elan. Unless only the paristic leech parts apply to Nale. And it still justifies prequel book.

[Rui]

Hilarious strip :smallsmile:

I can smell the "I know what Tarquin did before he left the city!" threads already :smalltongue:

[Kish]

That definition also applies to Elan. Unless only the paristic leech parts apply to Nale. And it still justifies prequel book.
My point is that if you're counting on a revelation that Tarquin's relationship with Nale was ever cherished, at least by Nale, or even for such a prequel to show you anything more about that "once-cherished relationship" than we already know from the currently-online comics, you might be in for disappointment even if you got the prequel.

[pearl jam]

Loved the dialogues through and through. The heartfelt Tarquin-Nale exchange was probably the best.

Yes, panel 7 is classic.

[Gorfnod]

Before they left the city, Tarquin ... what?

Any ideas, anyone? :smallconfused:

My gut says that Tarquin probably contacted the rest of his old adventuring party and they are on there way. Would make for a crazy battle between the LG and TE and maybe weaken each side enough for OotS.

[Cuthalion]

Panel 7 rocks. They both mean it, and both somehow accept it, Tarquin more than Nale. I like it. I just wish Durkon was slightly more intelligent now.

[Smolder]

That clinches it. There's a dispel coming for at least one of the Vampires...

[Silverhammer]

I can't see Tarquin losing to Xykon without employing some of his vast imperial resources. Perhaps overwhelming reinforcements await merely the most dramatic moment to arrive?

[Turgon9357]

Not only does this strip give us all a breather, it shows a bit on how thrallship operates in OOTSiverse. While not completely free-willed, Durkon seems to still be able to react to others, wander off, and react to pain.

Still concerned about how Durkon will going to react to his new state-of-being when he gets released. I'm thinking he'll completely freak out and try fry himself. Malack stops him, it keeps happening, Malack has to take measures to restrain him, and they have one of those horrifying "you will be my friend whether you like it or not" relationships. Very creepy, very evil.

[Porthos]

Maybe it's just me, but I found Tarquin to be exceptionally cold blooded in this strip. Perhaps even more monstrous than Malack.

Why?

Because his reaction to seeing Durkula was to treat it as a joke. :smallannoyed: A way to coo over a newborn baby. :smallannoyed::smallannoyed: Not one mention about how Malack must have felt offing a new found friend. Not even a passing thought about how Durkon has now become an unholy monstrosity that warps all he found dear. :smallannoyed::smallannoyed:

At least Nale had the common decency to be shocked before slipping into trolldum.

...

I mean, sure, it was a funny strip. And I'm not denying that Tarquin was in rare form. But somehow his reactions here made me... dislike him even more than I already do. And that's a fair accomplishment right there. :smalltongue:

[LadyEowyn]

Is Dispel Magic an arcane or divine spell? (I would guess the former, but I really don't know.)

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[hamishspence]

It's available to both:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dispelMagic.htm

[Porthos]

Is Dispel Magic an arcane or divine spell?

Yes. :smalltongue:

It's also on the Bard spell list, FWIW....

[Kish]

Is Dispel Magic an arcane or divine spell? (I would guess the former, but I really don't know.)
It doesn't work like that. Cleric, druid, ranger, and paladin spells are divine spells, sorcerer, wizard, and bard spells are arcane spells. Dispel Magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dispelMagic.htm) is all of the above except ranger; it's a divine spell if cast by a cleric, druid, or paladin, and an arcane spell if cast by a bard, sorcerer, or wizard.

[Ron Miel]

Interesting that Nale isn't more worried at this point. His usefulness just expired; unless Durkon also suddenly forgot everything else he knew before, as soon as Malack says "tell us everything you know about your group and your mission, omit nothing", Durkon will start babbling about the Order, and Xykon, and the fact that he may be on his way soon.

You forget. Nale's usefulness is that he has worked with Xykon before.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html

[Octopusapult]

I wonder if we'll see Tarquin have to defend his city from Team Evil at any point... And I wonder if we do, if it will fare any better than Azure city did.

[AngryHobbit]

Heh, father of the year. I wonder if the competition was entirely fair?

Seeing Roy and Haley, its not that hard to get FOTY in OOTSverse.

[lio45]

Durkon is a PC

(Elan is a Mac)

:elan:

Seeing how at the moment they're there to seek the Gate, this part of their quest could be called "The PCs and the Mac (Guffin)".


Also a little nitpick, but I think Tarquin's factually wrong in his evaluation of how storytelling works. He should have said "readers", not "protagonists", for his statement to be totally valid.

[Ronnoc]

So what sort of ridiculous feats could Tarquin have picked up that use the whip he's carrying in this strip?

[Agnostik]

So what sort of ridiculous feats could Tarquin have picked up that use the whip he's carrying in this strip?
Improved BDSM? :smallamused:

[Octopusapult]

So what sort of ridiculous feats could Tarquin have picked up that use the whip he's carrying in this strip?

He's had that whip since they had the pterodactyl come down with the "Cleric in a Can."

[Starwaster]

I wonder what Tarqin has up his sleeve...

What, you mean beyond his forces seizing control after he signals them?

He probably intends to use the gate to aid him in his conquest of the continent. Certainly that's how Nale pitched it to him while bargaining for his life when Malack was threatening to end it.

The question is just how much Tarquin really knows... how much did Nale actually tell him and whether Nale really understands himself. Which it really seems like he doesn't know as much as he thinks he knows and therefore Tarquin doesn't either, becaue the gates really shouldn't be trifled with.

But that's all already been talked about in previous threads I think...

[FlawedParadigm]

You forget. Nale's usefulness is that he has worked with Xykon before.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html

I do not. Nale's stance was that he was useful alive because Xykon would never work with Tarquin (and thus dispense any knowledge regarding the Ritual) without Nale to broker for him as a mutual acquaintance. My position is that Tarquin has enough eloquence to make his own case rather than rely on the dubious assistance of someone Xykon probably doesn't ever remember hiring. Nale's value as a broker was always slim to none, it's just something he said to convince his father he was better left alive. His only true use is establishing actual contact with Xykon, and if Malack interrogates Durkon, then Nale's actual usefulness is at an end.

I'm not sure why I was surprised that Nale didn't puzzle all that out on his own, but Tarquin...might have. For all we know, before he left the city, he made funeral arrangements for Nale, expecting to dispose of him one way or another as soon as his usefulness was outlived. He just didn't expect it to be so soon.

Probably not, though. I'm not sure it would fit Rich's style to force Durkon to infodump, and I suspect Malack may have slightly more respect for him than to do it.

[Chantelune]

Maybe it's just me, but I found Tarquin to be exceptionally cold blooded in this strip. Perhaps even more monstrous than Malack.

Why?

Because his reaction to seeing Durkula was to treat it as a joke. :smallannoyed: A way to coo over a newborn baby. :smallannoyed::smallannoyed: Not one mention about how Malack must have felt offing a new found friend. Not even a passing thought about how Durkon has now become an unholy monstrosity that warps all he found dear. :smallannoyed::smallannoyed:

At least Nale had the common decency to be shocked before slipping into trolldum.

...

I mean, sure, it was a funny strip. And I'm not denying that Tarquin was in rare form. But somehow his reactions here made me... dislike him even more than I already do. And that's a fair accomplishment right there. :smalltongue:

Malack is the one treating his thralls as if they're were his children, so Tarquin playing along does not seems that strange to me. It seems to me that he's happy that his friend finally decide to sire new vampires instead of always whining over the ones that Nale killed, especially after their argument before joining the LG.

Sure, Tarquin is pushing it a bit, treating Durkon like a baby, but remember that Malack proved to be quite sensitive about undead, getting angry when they decided not to go fish the mummies that have fallen in the trap. If Tarquin were to show signs of being disturbed or concerned about this, I think Malack would have snapped at him once more.

[Silverionmox]

"a once-cherished relationship that died painfully"

That line alone justifies an LG prequel book.

Tarquin refers both to Durkon & Malack's friendship (that died painfully), and his good relation to Nale (that also died painfully when the latter tried to take over). I think we've had all the exposition on both that we're going to get.

[cavalier973]

Okay, I started looking back through the comics, to see if there was any clue to what Tarquin was setting up before leaving the city. I got sidetracked...

...by this comic: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html If we are to take Redcloak's assertions that 1.) the undead are "nothing bits of skin and bone and dark energy, glued together by magic" and that 2.) the undead are merely tools, "from the lowliest zombie to Xykon himself" as true, then it implies that "Count Durkon" is not the real Durkon, and that Tarquin may have something in the works for his "tool", Malak. One other possibility is that Tarquin and Redcloak are teaming up.

[cavalier973]

Okay, here we go:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0822.html Seems that Tarquin asked for a file on some prisoner. Dunh Dunh DUNH!!

[Gift Jeraff]

Willing to bet Kilkil's alluding to capturing Ian and Geoff as hostages or something along those lines. That's what we last saw him talking about before cutting to Gobbotopia.

[t209]

I knew that his "children" are actually his vampire thralls.
(Seeing fall of resistance and death of durkon)
It's game over, man. Game over.

[Aquatosic]

I'm disgusted with myself, but the Durkula-and-Malack relationship is kind of sweet and cute in a sick way, especially the way Malack talks to Durkula after he burns himself. A lot like people talk to young children. :smallyuk:


On a sidenote, I guess Durkula is now the official fanon name

[Starwaster]

Okay, here we go:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0822.html Seems that Tarquin asked for a file on some prisoner. Dunh Dunh DUNH!!

They're not referring to something so mundane. He's probably referring to the fact that his troops are just outside The Windy Valley waiting to enter upon his command.

[Peelee]

I do not. Nale's stance was that he was useful alive because Xykon would never work with Tarquin (and thus dispense any knowledge regarding the Ritual) without Nale to broker for him as a mutual acquaintance. My position is that Tarquin has enough eloquence to make his own case rather than rely on the dubious assistance of someone Xykon probably doesn't ever remember hiring. Nale's value as a broker was always slim to none, it's just something he said to convince his father he was better left alive. His only true use is establishing actual contact with Xykon, and if Malack interrogates Durkon, then Nale's actual usefulness is at an end.

Emphasis mine.

Despite Tarquin being incredibly fourth-wall-breaking-genre-savvy (which I, for one, quite dislike), the fact that we know this does not mean that the characters know this. Tarquin has no idea that Xykon is very likely to not remember who the crap Nale is, due to having never known of Xykon before Nale told Tarquin about him.

[Aquatosic]

For a blood drained lifeless husk created from a much loved party member, does anyone else find Baby Durkula adorable? ^_^

Yes, and I feel horible about it. Never call him Baby Durkula again though:smallmad:

[Gift Jeraff]

They're not referring to something so mundane. He's probably referring to the fact that his troops are just outside The Windy Valley waiting to enter upon his command.

The files would have shown that the prisoner is a relative of his son's girlfriend, making it not so mundane anymore.

Though idea that the reinforcements he alluded to are the rest of his party and that he contacted them to get ready also makes sense.

[Kish]

...by this comic: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html If we are to take Redcloak's assertions that 1.) the undead are "nothing bits of skin and bone and dark energy, glued together by magic" and that 2.) the undead are merely tools, "from the lowliest zombie to Xykon himself" as true, then it implies that "Count Durkon" is not the real Durkon, and that Tarquin may have something in the works for his "tool", Malak. One other possibility is that Tarquin and Redcloak are teaming up.
I think it would be a grave mistake to take the word of the slave of the main villain of OotS that the excuse he tells himself so he can believe he isn't the slave of the main villain of OotS is true.

Even less so, considering his evidence consisted of, "Lookie, this class ability I have lets me completely mind control undead, nothing that can be forced to obey completely with magic is a person!"

[Grey Watcher]

I think it would be a grave mistake to take the word of the slave of the main villain of OotS that the excuse he tells himself so he can believe he isn't the slave of the main villain of OotS is true.

Even less so, considering his evidence consisted of, "Lookie, this class ability I have lets me completely mind control undead, nothing that can be forced to obey completely with magic is a person!"

Plus, as far as Redcloak was concerned, Xykon was just a tool for the advancement of The Plan even when he was alive. The only reason they're working together at all is because Redcloak couldn't find another suitably powerful arcane caster.

Also, I read the "once-cherished" relationship referenced in the current strip as referring to Tarquin's with Nale and Elan's bio-mom.

[Drynwyn]

Dangerously Genre savvy indeed.

[Peelee]

Plus, as far as Redcloak was concerned, Xykon was just a tool for the advancement of The Plan even when he was alive. The only reason they're working together at all is because Redcloak couldn't find another suitably powerful arcane caster.

I always thought that Redcloak should have realizied that if he multiclassed or simply travelled with someone who could try for Wizard or Sorc he'd have been much better off. Of course, he didn't know exactly how bad Xykon could be until he lich'd the dude, and it was going well enough until Lirian, when liching was the only solution to get out of there, but still.

[Starwaster]

The files would have shown that the prisoner is a relative of his son's girlfriend, making it not so mundane anymore.

Though idea that the reinforcements he alluded to are the rest of his party and that he contacted them to get ready also makes sense.

I don't think that matters so much in the context of Tarquin's bid to control the gate.

Unless you're suggesting the aforementioned troops might have re-secured said person and are holding him in the area to be used as a hostage later? That would make sense... and would appeal to Tarquin's sense of the dramatic, to reveal said hostage at the appropriate time for maximum dramatic tension with his son and paramour. Hmmmm.

[ThePhantom]

My guess for what Tarquin arranged for both his party to meet up, and send military support. Why go for one, when both gives better chance of success.

As for the undead being tools thing, that really only applies to the unintelligent ones. Xykon can be tricked, but he's the one who keeping Redcloak from getting his eye back. Malack is Tarquin's friend, and Tarquin respects his opinion. Also, Soon was techically an undead, and he was certainly not a tool.

[cavalier973]

I think it would be a grave mistake to take the word of the slave of the main villain of OotS that the excuse he tells himself so he can believe he isn't the slave of the main villain of OotS is true.

Even less so, considering his evidence consisted of, "Lookie, this class ability I have lets me completely mind control undead, nothing that can be forced to obey completely with magic is a person!"

Redcloak has Xykon's phylactery; I wouldn't say that he is Xykon's slave, now, even if he was at one point.

[cavalier973]

My guess for what Tarquin arranged for both his party to meet up, and send military support. Why go for one, when both gives better chance of success.

As for the undead being tools thing, that really only applies to the unintelligent ones. Xykon can be tricked, but he's the one who keeping Redcloak from getting his eye back. Malack is Tarquin's friend, and Tarquin respects his opinion. Also, Soon was techically an undead, and he was certainly not a tool.

Except that Redcloak specifically mentioned that Xykon was his puppet; it's just that some tools are dangerous and must be handled delicately.

Redcloak has Xykon's phylactery, so he has a fail-safe if Xykon turns on him.

[Kish]

Redcloak has Xykon's phylactery, so he has a fail-safe if Xykon turns on him.
That failsafe served him so well when he tried to use it before, too.

[Peelee]

Except that Redcloak specifically mentioned that Xykon was his puppet; it's just that some tools are dangerous and must be handled delicately.

Redcloak has Xykon's phylactery, so he has a fail-safe if Xykon turns on him.

If a guy has you on a chain, and whips you if you don't do what he tells you to, you're a slave. If the guy does exactly what you want him to do, you're still a slave. If you have the key to unlock the chains, and are waiting to strangle the guy in his sleep, you're still a slave until you break free.

Redcloak has a plan, but Xykon is still in command.

[cavalier973]

If a guy has you on a chain, and whips you if you don't do what he tells you to, you're a slave. If the guy does exactly what you want him to do, you're still a slave. If you have the key to unlock the chains, and are waiting to strangle the guy in his sleep, you're still a slave until you break free.

Redcloak has a plan, but Xykon is still in command.

Xykon may be the head (to borrow a phrase from "My Big Fat Greek Wedding"), but Redcloak is the neck, and he can turn the head wherever he wants it to go.

[MeanMrsMustard]

The sun burns Durkon? Must be an otaku. :smallwink:

[Zephyr1011]

Okay, here we go:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0822.html Seems that Tarquin asked for a file on some prisoner. Dunh Dunh DUNH!!

I doubt it. That was just Ian, a minor character, and unlikely to have any great effect on the battle.

[Zephyr1011]

I wonder if we'll see Tarquin have to defend his city from Team Evil at any point... And I wonder if we do, if it will fare any better than Azure city did.

Xykon only attacked Azure City because it had a gate. Why would he waste time or Tarquin?

[Zea mays]

Ooh more ominous foreshadowing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0751.html). :smallcool:
Why didn't the lights dim? Does that only happen when there's a protagonist around?

[Bulldog Psion]

Nale really is a creep, isn't he?

Great strip, though. And very interesting that Malack has several protection from daylight spells prepared -- a thoughtful fellow, I must say.

[Xelbiuj]

Shouldn't Durkon have fast healed Malack's bite marks by now?
If they're permanent because the wound was technically made pre-vampirism, that's a pretty big weakness for any vampire setting up shop.

Also, I'm betting the mook Nale just dispelled the previous spawn's protection while they were outside. Don't really see him beating any in a "real" fight.

[MeanMrsMustard]

Ooh more ominous foreshadowing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0751.html). :smallcool:
Why didn't the lights dim? Does that only happen when there's a protagonist around?
Tarquin had the dimmers specifically installed in the palace. He mentions it, if I'm not mistaken, in the very strip you linked.

Also, did anyone else laugh when Tarquin experienced Cuteness Proximity?

[Tragak]

More like Tarquin never had the chance to install light dimmers in the ziggurat. Having not known about it existing until just a few hours ago.

EDIT: Hold on, I think I just failed a spot check against NINJA!!!!!

[Peelee]

Xykon may be the head (to borrow a phrase from "My Big Fat Greek Wedding"), but Redcloak is the neck, and he can turn the head wherever he wants it to go.

Yes, Redcloak can turn the head wherever he wants it to go. So long as it is exactly where Xykon wants to go regardless. If and when the phylactery is destroyed and he stands up to Xykon, he will be his own free goblin. Until that moment, he's a slave. A planning, conniving, backstabbing, traitorous slave, but still a slave.

[Kish]

Why exactly is "Redcloak specifically mentioned" supposed to grant it authority?

Yes. Redcloak tells himself that his master is actually his pawn. We get it. Not, hopefully, the way Redcloak Got It when Xykon decided to punish him by not letting him regenerate his eye.

[Water_Bear]

Shouldn't Durkon have fast healed Malack's bite marks by now?
If they're permanent because the wound was technically made pre-vampirism, that's a pretty big weakness for any vampire setting up shop.

Vampire bites in fiction are pretty significant; even when healed, they ought to leave a scar. Especially on a newly sired vamp, where they have the most meaning.


Also, I'm betting the mook Nale just dispelled the previous spawn's protection while they were outside. Don't really see him beating any in a "real" fight.

Seeing as he specializes in Enchantment and his damage comes mostly from Sneak Attack, that's really the only way he could beat them.

Still want to see some "Nale the Vampire Slayer" action though. Fingers crossed we get another prequel book, or at least a flashback. :smallcool:

[Rogar Demonblud]

Nice to see the fourth wall still has the consistency of a fine mesh screen.

[Armaius]

Ooh more ominous foreshadowing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0751.html). :smallcool:
Why didn't the lights dim? Does that only happen when there's a protagonist around?

That's because the Draketooth's pyramid doesn't have light dimmers built into it. :smallbiggrin:

[FlawedParadigm]

Emphasis mine.

Despite Tarquin being incredibly fourth-wall-breaking-genre-savvy (which I, for one, quite dislike), the fact that we know this does not mean that the characters know this. Tarquin has no idea that Xykon is very likely to not remember who the crap Nale is, due to having never known of Xykon before Nale told Tarquin about him.

Eh? I'm pretty sure Tarquin knows precisely how eloquent he is as well. He talked his way into ruling an empire from behind the throne. The only thing Tarquin needs from Nale is Xykon's name and location, or an indication that he'll be coming into Tarquin's domain soon anyhow.

My point is simply that just because Nale said that he and only he could set his father up with the Gate-related info, that's not so. Tarquin knows the Order is somehow involved in this, which is why he could ask Malack to have Durkon spill the beans about what Durkon knows (which is pretty much everything about the Gates, barring the exact locations of them and the Ritual) and then talk to Xykon himself. As I said, there's a pretty good chance Xykon doesn't even remember Nale - it was only a month or a little over between the first two times he fought Roy and couldn't remember him. It's been almost or about six months since Xykon saw Nale or had any reason to think of him, maybe longer. They've never been together on panel, even.

Basically, as usual, Nale is nowhere near as important as he thinks he is. Tarquin may not know exactly how useless Nale actually is, but given the amount of cunning he's shown so far, he either does have the ability to figure it out, or has. He ought to know better than I do how useless Nale is. Heck, he just called him a parasite.

[BeethroBudkin07]

New page! :D

Darn, I really was hoping to find out what was behind that door... Ah well, at least we see the Linear Guild interact. I suppose that's good enough.

Somehow, I have the feeling that the Protection from Daylight will come in handy soon, despite the fact that they're heading back into the pyramid. Maybe when the gate goes "KRACK-OOM!" and blows the whole pyramid up?

[ZLordZ]

Regarding Tarquin's Genre Savvyness: Tarquin has always seemed like the type of Tyrant who read the "If I were an Evil Overlord" page and applied this knowledge to most of his actions. Thus, he can regularly smash the 4th wall with a wrecking ball since he's foreseen many of the pitfalls and can gloat about it.

@ Codyage & Kish: The moment the exchange between Nale & Tarquin that is skillfully interrupted by Kilkil plays like classic film humor:

-Rick: How can you close me up? On what grounds?
-Captain Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!
[a croupier hands Renault a pile of money]
-Croupier: Your winnings, sir.
-Captain Renault: [sotto voce] Oh, thank you very much.

ie. Tarquin is as good a father as Renault is a police captain and they are both shameless about it.

[EccentricFellow]

Who's a cute little vampire baby? LOL!
I think Rich gets a lot of amusement out of writing Tarquin's lines and I am most pleased to come along for the ride.
Still chuckling at that.

[Octopusapult]

Xykon only attacked Azure City because it had a gate. Why would he waste time or Tarquin?

Because he needs a new base of operations when he does get the gate. If the Order doesn't get to the gate first, and the Linear Guild+Tarquin does, then they'll need to hold the gate somehow. (In my opinion, that's what Tarquin is referencing. A way to sustain the gate himself, possibly without requiring that he even be there.)

So when Xykon gets to the desert, where's he going to hold up while the ritual is complete? Or while he overtakes the defenses Tarquin (or perhaps the Order) manages to set up?

He'll bring as much force as he can, even if it's just "for the evuls" and do whatever he can to the first thing he can find, even if it's just because he hasn't killed anything in a while other than goblins.

Plus, I'd bet money Nale is planning on abandoning, killing or misleading his father someway somehow, and I'd also bet money that Tarquin already knows that. He can't count on the linear guild to remain friendly for long. (Another reason I'm sure Tarquin is sending for someone he can count on, and not Thog.)

So Nale and the Linear Guild will most likely be without Tarquin & Malack (and Durkon), but not at Girards gate for very long. Tarquin, & Malack (and Durkon) will most likely be tasked with holding the gate, or at least one of them among whatever reinforcements Tarquin brings along. The Order will most likely be pushed out of the temple and forced to re-coop their loses. (Hopefully this means recruiting Genji and Enor, but that's a personal preference and not an actual theory.)

In short, The Linear Guild and The Order will be on the run, Tarquin will be defending the gate (possibly so much that his city defenses wane) and Xykon will fight for a base of operations while they either A) Overrun Girard's Gate or B) Defend while attempting to cast the ritual having already destroyed the defenses Tarquin enables.

[Dr.Epic]

Oh boy! Meta-humor...because that's always funny.

Also, what is it will all the recent necromancers be paternal/maternal with their undead? It's getting really creepy and weird.

[Halleflux]

Probably something with Thog.

[Xelbiuj]

Because he needs a new base of operations when he does get the gate.

He didn't bring a hobgoblin army this time, he, Redcloak, and the MitD needs no such thing.

In his mind, it's finish the ritual then go city to city and force them to surrender or face total annihilation, until he rules the world.

[Water_Bear]

As I said, there's a pretty good chance Xykon doesn't even remember Nale - it was only a month or a little over between the first two times he fought Roy and couldn't remember him. It's been almost or about six months since Xykon saw Nale or had any reason to think of him, maybe longer. They've never been together on panel, even.

And if Tarquin read OotS he would know that. But he doesn't; he has to rely on incomplete information, including information about Xykon.

He knows Xykon is a threat to the whole planet, is Epic level, opposes the Order of the Stick and seeks the Gates. He has no way of knowing that he has the attention span of a caffeinated kitten, that he is bad with names, or is a bad boss on Dilbert-ian levels.

On top of that, he has a bad habit of overestimating the importance of his kids; like how he still appears to see Elan as the main protagonist and possibly leader of the Order.

Putting the two together, he's likely to see Nale as an asset when dealing with this unknown and dangerous potential enemy.


Basically, as usual, Nale is nowhere near as important as he thinks he is. Tarquin may not know exactly how useless Nale actually is, but given the amount of cunning he's shown so far, he either does have the ability to figure it out, or has. He ought to know better than I do how useless Nale is. Heck, he just called him a parasite.

Just because Tarquin is disappointed in him doesn't mean he's going to kill him, or even that he wants to. He does seem to have some genuine affection for his kids, and has bent over backwards to keep Nale alive during the mission. If nothing else, the rules of drama mean he can't kill Elan's personal dopple, something which he should know.

Plus, out of the two brothers, Nale is significantly more effectual. Actually leading his team, being effective in a fight despite unfavorable multiclassing, coming up with some pretty solid (if overcomplicated) plans. He might not be Tarquin's favorite and is living firmly in his shadow, but he's hardly useless.

[137beth]

Emphasis mine.

Despite Tarquin being incredibly fourth-wall-breaking-genre-savvy (which I, for one, quite dislike), the fact that we know this does not mean that the characters know this. Tarquin has no idea that Xykon is very likely to not remember who the crap Nale is, due to having never known of Xykon before Nale told Tarquin about him.

I don't think Tarquin could get information out of Xykon. I think that when Durkon reveals that Xykon is, in fact, an epic level lich, Tarquin will realize that Nale really had no hope of getting anything from him in the first place.

[Peelee]

Eh? I'm pretty sure Tarquin knows precisely how eloquent he is as well. He talked his way into ruling an empire from behind the throne. The only thing Tarquin needs from Nale is Xykon's name and location, or an indication that he'll be coming into Tarquin's domain soon anyhow.

That Tarquin knows he is eloquent has no bearing on how important Nale is or is not to Xykon, which Tarquin has no way of knowing about, and which seemed a major point in the post I was contesting.



My point is simply that just because Nale said that he and only he could set his father up with the Gate-related info, that's not so. Tarquin knows the Order is somehow involved in this, which is why he could ask Malack to have Durkon spill the beans about what Durkon knows (which is pretty much everything about the Gates, barring the exact locations of them and the Ritual) and then talk to Xykon himself. As I said, there's a pretty good chance Xykon doesn't even remember Nale - it was only a month or a little over between the first two times he fought Roy and couldn't remember him. It's been almost or about six months since Xykon saw Nale or had any reason to think of him, maybe longer. They've never been together on panel, even.

He already gave up all Gate-related info (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html). Durkon could re-hash what they know, which is the exact same informaiton. The only thing Durkon knows that Nal doesn't regarding the Gates is the door defense the Order was deactivating and that Xykon is coming for it (thanks to the Oracle). Outside of talking to Xykon, there is no way for Tarquin to know that Nale is worthless to Xykon.




Basically, as usual, Nale is nowhere near as important as he thinks he is. Tarquin may not know exactly how useless Nale actually is, but given the amount of cunning he's shown so far, he either does have the ability to figure it out, or has. He ought to know better than I do how useless Nale is. Heck, he just called him a parasite.

May well be true. We'll see. But it's nowhere near definitive that Nale has outlived his usefuless.

[Illsbane]

Tarquin and Nale's relationship grows more unpleasant by the page. o_o It's not hard to see how Nale turned out the way he did.

And to think his mother cried over her loss of him... It's saddening.

[Vaylon]

Tarquin is rather fortunate that he lives in a universe so governed by narrative structure that agents of Chaos -- and even Chaos itself -- must, by definition, follow the narrative. He would not seem nearly as frightening in an actual chaotic universe (like ours, for instance).

It is probably too poetic for Tarquin to fail at the hands of his over-reliance on storytelling conventions. I can't see him being laid low by a mere petard hoist. The only real way to hurt someone like Tarquin is to threaten to somehow destroy narrative as an element of his existence -- or to remove him from the narrative completely.

[SoC175]

Makes you wonder the circumstances under which Nale had to dispose of Malack's previous "children." (And why he didn't have more levels on Elan by the time they met, if he was able to take out several vampires while the Order was still running from Goblins.)Actually vampires are not necessarily very powerful, vampire spawn are by definition not very powerfully.

Vampires can be as low as CR7 and vampire spawns are almost always CR 6 or less

[Toofey]

The type of thinking shown here may not work in real life, but has made me crazy good at predicting what is going to happen in TV shows.

[TRH]

Vampires can be as low as CR7 and vampire spawns are almost always CR 6 or less

3 CR 6 spawn still sounds like more than Nale should have been able to handle at the time. Maybe one of his overly complicated plans actually worked for a change, I dunno.

[SoC175]

3 CR 6 spawn still sounds like more than Nale should have been able to handle at the time. Maybe one of his overly complicated plans actually worked for a change, I dunno.3 CR 6 spawn would be encounter level 9. Nale plus Thog or Nale plus Sabine should be able to handle that easily, even back at the time he first fought Elan.

For Nale's full party it would just be a speed bump that they are expected to defeat with minor drain on their resources.

[Grogmir]

Seeing Team Tarquin take the piss out of Durkon and Nale's glee, really bugged me. Shows the strength of feeling I have / had for him I guess.

I'm really hoping they get an almighty shock when he gets his freewill back.

And I have no clue what Tarquin planned before he left the city.

[Incom]

I was amused that Nale was amused.

[snikrept]

Father of the Year plaque? He receives one of these every year?

From whom... Elan's mother?

[Kish]

The government of the Empire of Blood declares Tarquin Father of the Year every year.

It's a reminder that he can be very petty in the ways he edits his reality to suit himself and forces those around him to play along.

[Anarion]

Nice, relaxing comic. I'm a bit surprised Durkon didn't know the sunlight thing already. I suppose it was just for the sake of humor, but now I wonder if it implies that newly created vampire spawn don't know their other powers and weaknesses either.

As for the cliffhanger...I bet 10 gp that someone still calls it a deus ex machina when whatever thing Tarquin set up gets revealed. Any takers?

[Zephyr1011]

And to think his mother cried over her loss of him... It's saddening.

Your opinion of a small child is likely to be very different from your's of an adult.

[Starwaster]

Shouldn't Durkon have fast healed Malack's bite marks by now?
If they're permanent because the wound was technically made pre-vampirism, that's a pretty big weakness for any vampire setting up shop.

Also, I'm betting the mook Nale just dispelled the previous spawn's protection while they were outside. Don't really see him beating any in a "real" fight.

I was wondering that myself. I have a feeling he did something even more cowardly than that. Like maybe ambushing them in their sarcophagi and (insert method here: dispel/expose to sunlight, staking, etc)

[Johel]

The exchange in panel #7 is priceless.
Great comic !!

[Mutant Sheep]

Nice, relaxing comic. I'm a bit surprised Durkon didn't know the sunlight thing already. I suppose it was just for the sake of humor, but now I eonder if it implies that newly created vampire spawn don't know their other powers and weaknesses either.

As for the cliffhanger...I bet 10 gp that someone still calls it a deus ex machina when whatever thing Tarquin set up gets revealed. Any takers?
Agreed, especially since living Durkon knew it well enough. Thrall Durkon is evidently not Durkon. Freed Durkon, maybe.

No bet.

[XanKrieger]

Completely away from the topic at hand but I learned about someone a little interesting Thursday in Ancient Mediterranean Civilization class.

Does Rich name characters based on any significance on history or anything? Or does he name characters based on what would sound cool or interesting/appropriate and it having no bearing on the story.

We learned about an ancient king of Rome before the Republic named Tarquin the Proud. A king that expanded the rule of ancient Rome but was none too well-liked but people dealt with him. Eventually his idiot son steps out of line for him and while Tarquin is out at war they uproot the Monarchy and start the Republic.

Of course, 90% I just want to connect the two things rather than any actual connection.

[Gift Jeraff]

Completely away from the topic at hand but I learned about someone a little interesting Thursday in Ancient Mediterranean Civilization class.

Does Rich name characters based on any significance on history or anything? Or does he name characters based on what would sound cool or interesting/appropriate and it having no bearing on the story.

We learned about an ancient king of Rome before the Republic named Tarquin the Proud. A king that expanded the rule of ancient Rome but was none too well-liked but people dealt with him. Eventually his idiot son steps out of line for him and while Tarquin is out at war they uproot the Monarchy and start the Republic.

Of course, 90% I just want to connect the two things rather than any actual connection.

Rich has said Tarquin was named after him, yes.

[Raven777]

I love the new, improved Linear Guild so much. :smallredface:

[XanKrieger]

Rich has said Tarquin was named after him, yes.

Ah, it has already been discussed then. That is my fault, I have only starting reading since a year or so. Still a cool tidbit though.

[Ron Miel]

[QUOTE=Silverionmox;14994289]Tarquin refers both to Durkon & Malack's friendship (that died painfully), and his good relation to Nale (that also died painfully when the latter tried to take over).

I'm pretty sure he's referring to Nale as the product of his first marriage, which died painfully.

[LordofNaught]

Oh Giant, you and your ability to load up interesting Chekov's Guns. How many has he loaded at this point? Oh,and I loved Tarquain's pointing out of the whole "talking openly about the condition" thing. Reminds me of Discworld for some reason.

[Harry Leipzig]

After the last few comics, it was nice to get a humorous one. And Tarquin's genre savvy seems to have no ends. Nice to see the character interactions, very snarky and... :smallcool: biting. :smallbiggrin:

But seriously, I don't think Nale has an honorable bone in his body. He probably did destroy Malack's "children" in their sarcophagi. Either that, or they died defending Malack from Nale in the battle we heard about. The former is supported by Nale's characterization, the latter by dialogue. Either way, Nale is still a major league jerk.:smallannoyed:

[FlawedParadigm]

@ Water: But that's largely stuff Tarquin doesn't need to know; Xykon's attention span or ability to recall names doesn't enter into it. All he has to know is that Nale is a snake and would have said anything in that situation to up his own importance. I did mention at least once (a few pages back) that I suspect Tarquin might not be as eager to kill Nale as he wanted Nale to think he was (in different words) but then again he might be under certain circumstances. It's hard to know.

I'm not sure who this "effectual Nale" you speak of is, though. His first attack on the Order ended in a crushing defeat that ultimately cost the Order an entire two scrolls. His second attack briefly got Elan framed in Cliffport, and unless they ever need to go back there, that is unlikely to ever come up again within the scope of the story. Both times, he ended up getting at least one of his own cohorts killed, and the second time ended up being abandoned by a couple of the others. The third attack in Bleedingham's worst cost to the Order was V's temporary banishment and Haley's time as a statue. Roy came pretty close to getting messed up, but he pulled through. That cost him another Kobold and possibly Thog.

This confrontation is the only time anything he's been involved in has gotten anywhere at all. Even that has more to do with Tarquin and Malack being present than anything Nale has done, and so far it's gotten Sabine banished for awhile to boot.

Against that, Elan saved Haley's life in the second confrontation (and coincidentally got her speech back), was instrumental to Hinjo's cause while Roy was dead, captured Kubota, which led to V removing that knife from Azure City's back, and chances are the entire Order could have been executed in Bleedingham for various troubles they'd gotten in to if they hadn't been travelling with Tarquin's own son.

Which, again, was the effectual brother?


@ Peelee: He gave up that there IS a Ritual, but not who knows it, only that he's worked with them before. Unless Tarquin already knows Nale was working for Xykon, that's key information that's been withheld. Again, he can't KNOW right now that Nale's worthless to Xykon, other than knowing how generally ineffectual Nale is (something he commented on himself when explaining the rift between him and Nale to Elan) and that he was probably promising anything to spare his own skin. This again plays into the part where I suspect Tarquin knows these things, but doesn't actually want Nale to die as much as he wanted Nale to think he did at the time. The threat itself was enough to get him the information he'd been wanting on why the Order was there at all.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Speaking of Tarquin the proud, his son Tarquin was a rapist.

Our Tarquin is a rapist.

I wonder whether he's an amalgamation of the intelligently evil elder Tarquin and the petty, vindictive younger Tarquin.

[Paseo H]

So, lots of good ideas so far.

Speculation for what he planned:
So far we have:

1. Raise an army to set up shop at the gate
2. Hold Ian and Red hostage

Here's what I was thinking:

3. Let the rest of Team Tarquin know what's going on. Somehow I don't think Tarquin would hide this from them. And if he isn't entirely sure what's what, having others to help him figure it out would be best in the long run.

[stsasser]

Love the fact that Tarquin still thinks it is 'Elan's team'.

Also love some comedy after the brilliant run of terror and pity.

[The Second]

Xykon may be the head (to borrow a phrase from "My Big Fat Greek Wedding"), but Redcloak is the neck, and he can turn the head wherever he wants it to go.

Erm, not quite.

Xykon doesn't jump when Redcloak shouts, it's the other way around.

Yes, Redcloak holds the reigns, but he's smart enough to give Xykon enough slack so that Xykon never notices that Redcloak is steering him. If Redcloak were to give those reigns a good, sharp yank? Xykon would spit him in a moment and start looking for a new divine caster.

Before you say, "But Redcloak has the divine half of the Gate ritual, Xykon needs him," the truth of the matter is, all Xykon needs is a goblin that can wear the Crimson Mantle.

Does Xykon know this? No, not at the moment. Could he find this information if he devoted enough of his resources to the task? Most likely, yes.

So what is Redcloak's ace? Is it the phylactery? Not quite. It's doubtful Redcloak has the power to destroy it, and even if he does, he's still got a very angry, very powerful lich to deal with. Redcloak's ace is his subservience. So long as Redcloak convinces Xykon that he's still firmly under Xykon's control, Xykon will allow him to live and carry on his plans.

[F.Harr]

Well, THAT was creepy. Well-done, though. Fits perfectly.


It doesn't work like that. Cleric, druid, ranger, and paladin spells are divine spells, sorcerer, wizard, and bard spells are arcane spells. Dispel Magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dispelMagic.htm) is all of the above except ranger; it's a divine spell if cast by a cleric, druid, or paladin, and an arcane spell if cast by a bard, sorcerer, or wizard.

So, dispell magic goes all ways.


Seeing how at the moment they're there to seek the Gate, this part of their quest could be called "The PCs and the Mac (Guffin)".


Also a little nitpick, but I think Tarquin's factually wrong in his evaluation of how storytelling works. He should have said "readers", not "protagonists", for his statement to be totally valid.

I don't think they've mentioned the fact that there are readers, yet, except in one scene in The Oregin of P.C.'s.


I'm disgusted with myself, but the Durkula-and-Malack relationship is kind of sweet and cute in a sick way, especially the way Malack talks to Durkula after he burns himself. A lot like people talk to young children. :smallyuk:

Yeah, that seems to be theme in commic vampires. It also adds to the creepiness. I'll also note that Durkon still seems a little disoriented. Or, it's not really Durkon in there, but that's been mentioned.



On a sidenote, I guess Durkula is now the official fanon name

Of course, it's just too natural for words.


I always thought that Redcloak should have realizied that if he multiclassed or simply travelled with someone who could try for Wizard or Sorc he'd have been much better off. Of course, he didn't know exactly how bad Xykon could be until he lich'd the dude, and it was going well enough until Lirian, when liching was the only solution to get out of there, but still.

As they say, mistakes were made. Now he has to live with them.


Xykon may be the head (to borrow a phrase from "My Big Fat Greek Wedding"), but Redcloak is the neck, and he can turn the head wherever he wants it to go.

Within bounds, yes, I can see that. I think the copying of the phylactery was a part of those bounds.


Shouldn't Durkon have fast healed Malack's bite marks by now?
If they're permanent because the wound was technically made pre-vampirism, that's a pretty big weakness for any vampire setting up shop.

He's not autonomou, yet. Until then, self-maintinence isn't a high priority for him and no matter how caring Malack is, he's going to miss things.


Also, I'm betting the mook Nale just dispelled the previous spawn's protection while they were outside. Don't really see him beating any in a "real" fight.

I'm not sure what an "unreal" fight would look like. Trickery? Seems like that's a real fight, too, with real enough consiquences.


Oh Giant, you and your ability to load up interesting Chekov's Guns. How many has he loaded at this point? Oh,and I loved Tarquain's pointing out of the whole "talking openly about the condition" thing. Reminds me of Discworld for some reason.

There are similar, but not exact, conversations in some of the latest Discworld novels.


Love the fact that Tarquin still thinks it is 'Elan's team'.

The pride of the father.


Also love some comedy after the brilliant run of terror and pity.

The Giant DOES love him some good pacing. It's particulary important in this art-form.

[mrzomby]

How did Malack climb the stairs? :smallamused:

Dont vampires get a strength bonus? He could have been lifting himself up using a railing with 1 hand, and carrying a staff in the other.

[Sith_Happens]

Also a little nitpick, but I think Tarquin's factually wrong in his evaluation of how storytelling works. He should have said "readers", not "protagonists", for his statement to be totally valid.

Beat me to it.

[Anarion]

Before you say, "But Redcloak has the divine half of the Gate ritual, Xykon needs him," the truth of the matter is, all Xykon needs is a goblin that can wear the Crimson Mantle.

Does Xykon know this? No, not at the moment. Could he find this information if he devoted enough of his resources to the task? Most likely, yes.


Xykon does know that. He already figured it out a while ago, either by being told or understanding how the cloak works.

:xykon:If I ever see you with more eyes than *******s, I'm going to shove one in the other and give your cloak to that hobgoblin. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0662.html)

edit: Vaguely amused that the forum filter prevents quoting the comic verbatim. I'll just leave it, you can all follow the link and read Xykon's quote yourselves.



So what is Redcloak's ace? Is it the phylactery? Not quite. It's doubtful Redcloak has the power to destroy it, and even if he does, he's still got a very angry, very powerful lich to deal with. Redcloak's ace is his subservience. So long as Redcloak convinces Xykon that he's still firmly under Xykon's control, Xykon will allow him to live and carry on his plans.

I think Redcloak switched the phylactery so that he'll be able to destroy Xykon someday. It's not about using it as a bargaining tool, Redcloak already learned that lesson. But it is about having the phylactery accessible for the moment someday when it's time to break it.

[Smolder]

I think Redcloak switched the phylactery so that he'll be able to destroy Xykon someday. It's not about using it as a bargaining tool, Redcloak already learned that lesson. But it is about having the phylactery accessible for the moment someday when it's time to break it.

Maybe Redcloak has already destroyed the real phylactery. Would Xykon know if he did?

[martianmister]

Before they left the city, Tarquin ... what?

Any ideas, anyone? :smallconfused:

A "boy" maybe? :smallwink:

[thisisnotspam]

:smallbiggrin: such a funny comic, it really brightened up my evening

[Ron Miel]

I don't think they've mentioned the fact that there are readers, yet, except in one scene in The Oregin of P.C.'s.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0033.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0258.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0259.html

[Johkmil]

A nice break from the heavy decisions and sacrifices, although with more than a little foreshadowing. I have always enjoyed how OotS manages to make the Acrobatics check to deftly balance between serious character development and -interaction and cracking jokes while leaning on the fourth wall.

[XanKrieger]

Speaking of Tarquin the proud, his son Tarquin was a rapist.

Our Tarquin is a rapist.

I wonder whether he's an amalgamation of the intelligently evil elder Tarquin and the petty, vindictive younger Tarquin.

His son's name was Sextus. That is some type of literary drama term.

[Knight.Anon]

Are Durkon's bite marks death scars that won't heal?

[jere7my]

His son's name was Sextus. That is some type of literary drama term.

"Sextus" simply means "sixth." Tarquin had three sons: Titus, Arruns, and Sextus. Sextus is the one who raped Lucretia, which led to the overthrow of the monarchy and the institution of the Roman Republic.

[Angel Bob]

"Sextus" simply means "sixth." Tarquin had three sons: Titus, Arruns, and Sextus. Sextus is the one who raped Lucretia, which led to the overthrow of the monarchy and the institution of the Roman Republic.

But really, what can you expect from a man named Sextus? :smalltongue:

[Mike Havran]

Just occured to me...

Tarquin knows the Order knows Malack is a vampire.

That means the Order knows Malack is in the pyramid, and from here it's a no-brainer for them to deduce that "Thog" is, in fact, Tarquin.

So he may just as well stop promenading in that dumb purple outfit.

[FlawedParadigm]

Just occured to me...

Tarquin knows the Order knows Malack is a vampire.

That means the Order knows Malack is in the pyramid, and from here it's a no-brainer for them to deduce that "Thog" is, in fact, Tarquin.

So he may just as well stop promenading in that dumb purple outfit.

Technically speaking, no. They know it's not-Thog, they suspect it's Tarquin, but so far as actual proof, they can't know Tarquin didn't send Malack & Company in his stead. (But yes, we know at least Haley, Roy, and Elan are confident in their assertions, and now Durkon has proof, although he's not likely to report back to the Order any time soon.)

[XanKrieger]

"Sextus" simply means "sixth." Tarquin had three sons: Titus, Arruns, and Sextus. Sextus is the one who raped Lucretia, which led to the overthrow of the monarchy and the institution of the Roman Republic.

Are we doing this? I hope we're not doing this. Roman Nomenclature is incredibly lacking in creativity. Roman "Nomen" went 1st Name 2nd Name 3rd Name. The 2nd Name being the designation of the root family you come from. In famous cases Julius was his 2nd name and the name he would be referred to by friends and family. His 3rd Name Caesar would be his exact family in his case Caesar. Chances are, there would be quite a few people named Julius Caesar.

We use the 3rd name because we like to use last names. To try and differentiate people they added a 1st name. BUT the Romans had about 12 first names. Google or wiki or whatever you want the name Gaius. Gaius is Caesar's 1st name and the search will yield you at least 20 or so people with that name.

In Sextus' case. He was in fact the 6th child. They ran out of unique names quickly and at that point would simply be named by the number of order in which they were born.

Tarquin the proud had a grandfather/father (people argue which) named TARQUIN. Except he was nicknamed Tarquin the Elder.

Daughters born have an even simpler nomenclature. They get a feminine version of the 2nd name of the father. Caesar's daughter was named Julia. If he had 100 daughters, they would all be named Julia. But have a nickname added that is an obvious descriptor like the Elder, younger, Fat, or skinny.

[Kish]

Just occured to me...

Tarquin knows the Order knows Malack is a vampire.

That means the Order knows Malack is in the pyramid, and from here it's a no-brainer for them to deduce that "Thog" is, in fact, Tarquin.

So he may just as well stop promenading in that dumb purple outfit.
While Malack may well express that line of reasoning to him, using the exact words "you may just as well stop promenading in that dumb purple outfit," I am dubious that Tarquin will so readily give up his chance to...promenade.

[oskeladden]

The sun burns Durkon? Must be an otaku. :smallwink:

I couldn't have been the only one who thought 'precioussssss' to myself after that line, surely?

[silvadel]

Tarquin is so very dangerously genre savvy -- he can even go by what is said and not said to reveal what parts of his plans are known by his enemies.

[jere7my]

Are we doing this? I hope we're not doing this.

I'm not actually sure; what do you think we're doing? If you're saying Tarquin's son was also named Tarquin, that's a) the same as saying John F. Kennedy's son was named Kennedy — i.e., not very interesting, and b) not how we refer to Sextus. He's Sextus Tarqinius when he's mentioned; "Tarquin" as shorthand refers only to his dad. Face to face, they'd be called Lucius and Sextus.


In Sextus' case. He was in fact the 6th child. They ran out of unique names quickly and at that point would simply be named by the number of order in which they were born.

Actually, we don't know how many children Tarquinius Superbus had. (Well, we do — zero — because he's part of the mythological history Rome invented for itself. But anyway.) We know he had three sons, but we know very little about his daughters. Sextus was a common praenomen that usually had nothing to do with birth order, just like Octavius, Quintus, and Septimus. Most Sexti were not the sixth children in their family, any more than a modern-day Trey has to be the third, or Quentin has to be the fifth.

[Cerlis]

all i can say is that hopefully Tarquinn's thing is that he is going to double cross his son (the lame one) , or he is porting in an army which will get in Xykon's way


because.....

the Order really dont need anymore roadblocks....

[Anarion]

Tarquin is so very dangerously genre savvy -- he can even go by what is said and not said to reveal what parts of his plans are known by his enemies.

I'm confident that in the arena of genre savvy, his son is fully his equal.

Besides, you may recall that Elan has an unrevealed plan in the works that has been referenced a couple times. And we still don't know about that one either, so it's highly likely to work. :smallbiggrin:

[rewinn]

While sending for reinforcements (either the rest of his Team or an army) would be an obviously smart thing to do for the Well-Organized Evil Overlord, it seems to me that it's *too* obvious. An almost equally necessary thing for Tarquin would be ... a party for Elan, to celebrate his success in giving his father a challenge. Tarquin expects to defeat OOTS handily, but is unlikely to kill his son, his son's girlfriend or even Roy who, after all, Tarquin hired to protect Elan. I predict Tarquin will ultimately defeat the Order, throw them a party brought in by dinosaur, and then let Elan escape to Fulfill His Destiny.
Absurd? Well maybe ...

[SaintRidley]

Are Durkon's bite marks death scars that won't heal?

Basically. Why do you think Malack always has his cowl up? To hide the scars.

[IW Judicator]

Did anyone else get a sort of 'Tsukiko' vibe from Tarquin's baby-talking to Durkula? That is, in the sense that most people's immediate response to the undead is not something along the lines of "Aww, how precious."

As for Tarquin and Kilkil's forshadowing...the most logical answer is some form of reinforcements, but there's something that just appeals to me about Tarquin making an omelette. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0760.html) before departing. Or perhaps having one made while he's out of the spotlight. :smallwink:

[Starwaster]

Dont vampires get a strength bonus? He could have been lifting himself up using a railing with 1 hand, and carrying a staff in the other.

If you need an explanation other than 'he slithers up the stairs' then he probably floated up them. He either has a magic item that lets him fly or he has had Overland Flight cast previously.

[Darthteej]

Title made me crack up. That is all.

[JCAll]

Probably something with Thog.

So falls the Empire of Blood, long live the Empire of Thog.

[rodneyAnonymous]

How did Malack climb the stairs? :smallamused:

Snakes climb stairs fine.

[Ghostwheel]

Just so that I can keep it in my head: There are now at least 3 Evil teams vs. our heroes. All of those evil teams have fractures of one sort or another. Our heroes are reduced to a warrior (albeit a very smart one), a rouge, a crippled psychopath and a spoony bard. Our heroes allies are the toughest bad-ass ever who is not epic level and a knight who are a continent/ocean away.

Did I miss anybody? Oh, yeah, V. (HMMMMMMM).

I have written myself into a corner before, but this is WOW tight! Keep it up Rich!:smallcool:

[sirgarberto]

I apologize if this was already mentioned, but does anyone know the name of the trope Tarquin is alluding to?

[LokiRagnarok]

@sirgarberto: Unspoken Plan Guarantee.

[Haleth]

Great strip.I don't usually laugh while reading, but Tarquin's comments towards Vampire!Durkon and his subsequent banter with Nale had me snickering.

And:


Just occured to me...

Tarquin knows the Order knows Malack is a vampire.

That means the Order knows Malack is in the pyramid, and from here it's a no-brainer for them to deduce that "Thog" is, in fact, Tarquin.

So he may just as well stop promenading in that dumb purple outfit.

Or maybe Tarquin has a secret fondness for purple. :smallsmile:

[ti'esar]

@sirgarberto: Unspoken Plan Guarantee.

No, that was what Elan talked about here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0836.html). This is "characters start referring casually to something they had previously been vague about once it's revealed to the audience". Different concepts.

[EclipseDarkSun]

... dug up Thog, who is still alive.

Unlikely - http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0822.html

[EclipseDarkSun]

They're not referring to something so mundane. He's probably referring to the fact that his troops are just outside The Windy Valley waiting to enter upon his command.

Besides, that might simply be referring to Hayley's father. From the incident where he got away.

[Skavensrule]

Our heroes are reduced to a warrior (albeit a very smart one), a rouge, a crippled psychopath and a spoony bard.

While Haley is a redhead her class is Rogue. Of course she messed that up herself once too when she filled out the application to join the order.

[sirgarberto]

@sirgarberto: Unspoken Plan Guarantee.

No, that one means, and I quote: "When the characters come up with a plan to save the day, its chances of success are inversely proportional to how much the audience knows about it beforehand."
The trope Tarquin is referencing in this strip is that characters tend to avoid being explicit about a plot twist until the audience knows about it. What's the name of that trope?

[Harry Leipzig]

While Haley is a redhead her class is Rogue.
:smallbiggrin: Reminds me of a story I read. A professor was reading a student's assignment, and he got to a section where a woman had fallen down a flight of stairs and was lying "prostitute" on the ground. When the student got the assignment back, he saw a note at that section: "My dear boy, there is a great deal of difference between a fallen woman and one who has merely tripped."

[WoLong]

I've noticed that Tarquin is almost always in a good mood. For instance, he has a happy face for six of eight panels that feature him here. Such a jolly tyrant.

[davidbofinger]

I think it would be a grave mistake to take the word of the slave of the main villain of OotS that the excuse he tells himself so he can believe he isn't the slave of the main villain of OotS is true.

Even less so, considering his evidence consisted of, "Lookie, this class ability I have lets me completely mind control undead, nothing that can be forced to obey completely with magic is a person!"

Agreed. Tsukiko's ghouls(?), Malak and Xykon all appear to have personalities and desires separate from those controlling them. (Zombies are truly mindless, anything else?) All the evidence suggests Redcloak is wrong, and since Redcloak is too smart and knowledgeable to be merely ignorant on this subject the strong implication is that Xykon has judged his minion correctly, that Redcloak is prone to self-deception.

[Grogmir]

While common consensus I believe is that Redcloak is incorrect in his "undead are tools" speech. Undead have been proven to have personalities, wants and desires.

However that doesn't mean his whole speech is incorrect. He may be a slave on a day to day basis. But lets not forget :xykon: has spent the last 90? odd years on a mission that is absolutely no benefit to him. Xykon cannot do anything with the gate. :redcloak: The puppet strings are there... just subtle.

~ ~ ~

As for Tarquin. #822 gives a hint maybe... "they will seize it from them before signally for my troops to secure the area". But that seems a little mundane for such foreshadowing... So all best are off imo.

[Smolder]

Unlikely - http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0822.html

I'd forgotten that Tarquin and Nale already talked openly about signalling Tarquin's "forces to secure the area". So if and when the army of the Empire of Blood shows up, it still can't be the thing Kilkil was referring to. That was never a secret.

[Rakoa]

I'd forgotten that Tarquin and Nale already talked openly about signalling Tarquin's "forces to secure the area". So if and when the army of the Empire of Blood shows up, it still can't be the thing Kilkil was referring to. That was never a secret.

I really do have my finger's crossed for calling in his adventuring party.

[Chad30]

I couldn't have been the only one who thought 'precioussssss' to myself after that line, surely?

No, you weren't.

I'd really like to see Tarquin's whole adventure party too. Maybe as a replacement for Nale's team. Since the LG's most entertaining characters is dead, I'm not as interested in them.

I really like barbarians.

[Kalirren]

Now we have two hidden subplots:
1) What did Tarquin order before he left the City?
2) Elan's "top secret plan" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0836.html) that involves Durkon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0837.html).
Can't wait!

Obviously they're the same thing, right? This is Elan-logic we're talking about. And we know that Elan got Elan-logic from his father.


My money is that Elan has set up his father's awesome demise plot. Elan needed Durkon to cast Sending to get his father in on the loop.

The rest of it plays out as follows:

The Order of the Stick finds the last riddle protecting the Gate and can't solve it. Xykon shows up from off panel with the answer. (It was encoded in Serini's diary, just like O-chul said it was. The ultimate irony for Redcloak.)

Order loses to and starts fleeing from Xykon.

Team Evil (or what's left of it) show up and join the fight against Xykon.

Xykon and Redcloak proceed to clean house.

At the last moment, Tarquin goes all Magnificent Bastard Evil Tyrant on everyone and saves the world by destroying Girard's Gate. (Of course, Girard had a self-destruct switch in place just for Soon.) This shows how even the evil tyrant is capable of heroic self-sacrifice. (All it required was that his favorite son get the best dramatic opportunity.)

And the worst/best part about it is that Elan can then say to Xykon/Redcloak when they meet at Kraagor's Gate, "You killed my father. Prepare to die...!"

[Kish]

I really do have my finger's crossed for calling in his adventuring party.
Me too.

Possibly for a different reason than you though. (Get Tarquin's adventuring party all in one place so there aren't any loose ends after Xykon slaughters them...)

[Rakoa]

Me too.

Possibly for a different reason than you though. (Get Tarquin's adventuring party all in one place so there aren't any loose ends after Xykon slaughters them...)

Yes...that is indeed for a different reason than mine.

[Chad30]

Noes! Don't slaughter Tarquin and co.! :(

Honestly I do believe Xykon is the single most powerful character in the comic, but I don't want to see Tarquin die. He's just too awesome. At least, not die until very late in the comic. Though Elan is more likely to imprison him somewhere. I don't really see Elan killing his dad.

[happycrow]

I've noticed that Tarquin is almost always in a good mood. For instance, he has a happy face for six of eight panels that feature him here. Such a jolly tyrant.

I was just going to say, Tarquin's appears to be the dedicated cut-up of the group, as well as the one who goes off on amusing tangents.. what's the evidence that he's actually lawful again?

[Water_Bear]

I was just going to say, Tarquin's appears to be the dedicated cut-up of the group, as well as the one who goes off on amusing tangents.. what's the evidence that he's actually lawful again?

Lawful doesn't mean stick in the mud, the same as Chaotic doesn't mean completely bonkers. Some Lawful people (Miko / Malak) are humorless jerks and some Chaotic people (Elan / Thog) are unpredictable clowns, but there's room for reserved sardonic Chaotics (Haley / Shojo) and extroverted fun-loving Lawfuls (Tarquin / Roy's Dad).

[SaintRidley]

However that doesn't mean his whole speech is incorrect. He may be a slave on a day to day basis. But lets not forget :xykon: has spent the last 90? odd years on a mission that is absolutely no benefit to him. Xykon cannot do anything with the gate. :redcloak: The puppet strings are there... just subtle.


Try 31 years.

[Rakoa]

Try 31 years.

That doesn't detract from the point he is making.

[happycrow]

Lawful doesn't mean stick in the mud, the same as Chaotic doesn't mean completely bonkers. Some Lawful people (Miko / Malak) are humorless jerks and some Chaotic people (Elan / Thog) are unpredictable clowns, but there's room for reserved sardonic Chaotics (Haley / Shojo) and extroverted fun-loving Lawfuls (Tarquin / Roy's Dad).

I can see that part, obviously.
But he goes off-mission toying with the OOTS. His reaction to Malack's plan to wreck the continent forever is "well, I'll need a bigger statue, then." Playing the angles on the OOTS even when he knows they're a unified adventuring party, etc etc, this all strikes me as somebody who's not taking things very seriously except for their own benefit.

Maybe LE, sure. But I could just as easily see another align here.

[notaro]

Had a jolly good belly laugh at this one, haven't had one of those for a while. Great cut away to relieve the tension from all those cliff hangers one after the other during the 9-in-a-row. I don't feel so bad about Durkon now. He is in good hands until he is released.

Also, the fore shadowing here doesn't bother me, we already knew that Tarquin would have some more tricks up his sleeve, he is just that kind of guy. The tension for me is all about what is in the epic room with the epic traps on its epic door. I hope its epic!

[Adeptus]

Okay, here we go:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0822.html Seems that Tarquin asked for a file on some prisoner. Dunh Dunh DUNH!!

Reference to Haley's dad maybe?

[Minitroll]

Gods, I love Tarquin more every comic he's in. Plot twist: The Order of the Stick dies, and Tarquin, wanting to keep his new kingdom intact, saves the gates.

LIKE A TARQUIN!

[happycrow]

Actually, in retrospect, I have to agree with the dissent. Tarquin's comments there clearly indicate a more lawful mind.

[Kish]

That doesn't detract from the point he is making.
Yes. Redcloak is able to manipulate Xykon to some extent, as a lich as he was able to manipulate Xykon as a living sorcerer.

That is, generally less than he thinks he is.

His speech to Tsukiko about the undead being nothing but weapons, tools, bits of skin and bone and dark energy, was pure self-delusion; he can't be a slave if there's no there there to the weapon who claims to be his master, so he tells himself that is the case.

[Starwaster]

Great strip.I don't usually laugh while reading, but Tarquin's comments towards Vampire!Durkon and his subsequent banter with Nale had me snickering.

And:



Or maybe Tarquin has a secret fondness for purple. :smallsmile:

Well, it IS a regal color!

[Gift Jeraff]

Me too.

Possibly for a different reason than you though. (Get Tarquin's adventuring party all in one place so there aren't any loose ends after Xykon slaughters them...)

This is what I hope as well.

Though I can't help but think Tarquin and Miron Shewdanker will survive (Miron in order to elaborate on the Geoff/Ivy/Miron/Bozzok conspiracy), and Zz'dtri will die, making the next/final incarnation of the Linear Guild Nale/Sabine/Tarquin/Miron/Vampire Durkon (no more kobolds because no more Belkar). With Malack gone and after realizing that Elan is as much of a disappointment, Tarquin might be more willing to work with Nale (though still planning to betray him).

[Smolder]

This is what I hope as well.

Though I can't help but think Tarquin and Miron Shewdanker will survive (Miron in order to elaborate on the Geoff/Ivy/Miron/Bozzok conspiracy), and Zz'dtri will die, making the next/final incarnation of the Linear Guild Nale/Sabine/Tarquin/Miron/Vampire Durkon (no more kobolds because no more Belkar). With Malack gone and after realizing that Elan is as much of a disappointment, Tarquin might be more willing to work with Nale (though still planning to betray him).

You think that Vampire Durkon will remain with the LG after Malack is destroyed? Why would he?

[ti'esar]

You think that Vampire Durkon will remain with the LG after Malack is destroyed? Why would he?

We don't know yet how much of Durkon is left in Vampire Durkon. If the "it's a separate being with Durkon's memories" school is correct, I don't see any reason he wouldn't stick around.

[Smolder]

We don't know yet how much of Durkon is left in Vampire Durkon. If the "it's a separate being with Durkon's memories" school is correct, I don't see any reason he wouldn't stick around.

Because they're the people responsible for his vampirism.
Because they're his long time nemeses, who used him against his friends.
Because the next time they run into the Order, he'll switch sides in a heartbeat, given a chance.

[Sir. Knowsalot]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0837.html

Am I the only one that finds "We're Hhigh level adventurers with access to a lot of magic" rather ironic now?


Also, as someone who never played D&D how are the odds for a Tarquin/Malack vs Xykon match? (Let's assume Redcloak is otherwise occupied.)

[Kish]

Because the next time they run into the Order, he'll switch sides in a heartbeat, given a chance.
While I do not believe it is at all likely that Vampire Durkon is just a monster with a completely different mind that happens to have Durkon's face...

...Durkon's heart no longer beats.

[Water_Bear]

Also, as someone who never played D&D how are the odds for a Tarquin/Malack vs Xykon match? (Let's assume Redcloak is otherwise occupied.)

Epic Spellcaster v Mid-Level Spellcaster and Melee Guy is the D&D equivalent of M1 Abrams v Baby Seal and it's pet Snail.

Narratively, Xykon has already shown what he thinks of cunning tricks and subtlety and how effective they are against him. Add that to his "kill rival villains who threaten his rep mercilessly" thing, and the two are as out of their league drama-wise as they are mechanically.

[gneissisnice]

Oh man, I'm getting sadder and sadder with each update. Durkon's my favorite character, and watching him not be himself is just heartbreaking.

My guess is that once Malack's thrall over him is broken, he'll go back to the OotS and have to deal with now being a vampire, opening up a range of new abilities and strength but he'll have to deal with being a creature that is everything he was taught to hate and destroy. It will lead to both heartfelt drama and hilarity.

[Gift Jeraff]

You think that Vampire Durkon will remain with the LG after Malack is destroyed? Why would he?

Same reason Malack is tenuously working with Nale: plot complications. Maybe the Order somehow gets teleported to the Northern Continent or goes into the world within the world, so he needs to use the Guild to find them. Or he needs access to Malack's library to learn Protection from Daylight. And Durkon being forced to lie to the bad guys all on his own could be an interesting contrast to when he was scolding Haley for doing so.

[the_tick_rules]

Tarquin knows his plot devices.

[Nimrod's Son]

So does this mean that Durkon's been barefoot this whole time?

[Obscure Blade]

So does this mean that Durkon's been barefoot this whole time?Hmmm. Presumably sunlight can burn vampires through clothing and armor, or they could go out in it by dressing like ninja (if they covered the eyes too) or in full armor.

[Chad30]

You know I never really thought about his feet. Belkar's barefoot, and his feet are drawn as such. Other characters wear boots, and you'd expect Durkon to wear platemail boots. Still, I never pictured him, Elan, or V walking around barefoot.

[Gift Jeraff]

Have we ever seen any dwarf or gnome without the stick feet?