Killing a blue dragon

[Melnir]

Hello playground! My paty is going to face an old (or older) blue dragon in an open field battle. We are level 12, monk 2/cleric 4/sacred fist 6 (persistent spell, uses quarterstaff with brambles, righteous might and divine power), druid 11/beastmaster 1 (with large 22 HD dire bear, since natural bond is cumulative), sorcerer 8/fatespinner 3 (blaster mostly), fighter 12 (defensive, he loves using combat expertise, so no huge damage output), barbarian x/berserker x (deities and demigods version, ubercharger wannabe). We need to kill it without wasting too many resources, since there will be casters (mostly clerics) running around and we'll need to kill them too to grant victory to our allies. We can use only spells from PH, CD, CAr, CAdv, CW, SpC.

What do you think it would be the best tactic? Thanks!

[ArcturusV]

Well... you're kinda hosed? Least if the Dragon is played moderately intelligently. From the sound of it the only thing that can really engage it is the Sorcerer. Maybe the Druid. And that's what the battle will hinge on. Even if it wasn't for the enemy ground forces, it'd be a tough fight. After all ,the Dragon has no reason what so ever to land and let your entire party fight him. He should just be up in the air, raining death and destruction. Depending on his spell selection even the Druid and Sorcerer might not be able to adequately engage it.

So... yeah. Gonna have to split your attentions at taking down the dragon (Long as it has Air Superiority, you're not winning, no matter what), while the other two take on the Clerics. Which... they MIGHT have trouble doing to be honest. Depending on levels and numbers of course. Worst case scenario would have the enemy clerics buffing up themselves and the Dragon to a point where you cannot adequately handle either side.

.... so the first thing to look at perhaps, is Expeditious Retreat. Outrun the Clerics. The Dragon will be able to keep up in the sky. But as long as you can split them, you have a chance.

Attacking the Dragon's Dex is a good way to go. If your Sorcerer has the proper spells (Or Spell Completion Items) you can make that dragon fall right out of the sky with some luck.

I mean, part of it depends on how your DM plays it too. A lot of people just play Dragons really stupidly. So it might not be a threat at all. But if it's played with moderate intelligence you might have real problems with it. Still, the safest bet is to lure the Dragon away from the Clerics though, so you're dealing with only one problem at a time.

[hymer]

You'll need some way to fly and/or to get the dragon on the ground. Dragons can often cast Dispel Magic-like spells, and at considerable CL, so if you can find a way to bring it down to your level that would be preferable to casting spells that make you fly.
While the dragon is in the air and you can't engage it properly, block line of sight to it, so it can't just kill you while up there. Try and find out if it has any way to switch its breath weapon type and AoE, so you'll know what energy resistances/immunities/absorptions you need for the fight.

[Gwendol]

You will need to ground the dragon for the whole party to engage it. Shivering touch at range could do it. Maybe some weather or wind related spell can force it to land?

[Melnir]

We have no access to shivering touch, that's one of the problems. Flying shouldn't be a big issue (cleric and druid can both cast air walk, sorcerer can cast fly), but as said the dragon can dispel us. Animal growth and air walk on the bear and send it to grapple the dragon would be a good tactic? It should get something like +41. While it grapples the dragon we can take care of the casters, then kill the dragon if it's still alive.

[Ketiara]

Solid Fog cast in its path while flying will make it stall and drop from the sky.

[Amnestic]

Animal growth and air walk on the bear and send it to grapple the dragon would be a good tactic? It should get something like +41. While it grapples the dragon we can take care of the casters, then kill the dragon if it's still alive.

Per the SRD, an Old Blue Dragon has a +45 to Grapple, getting higher as it gets older.

It's still a possibility, but it's definitely not something you should be relying on.

[Seharvepernfan]

Few things:

1. Neutralize the clerics first; they're easier to take down and can heal the dragon - you don't want that happening.

2. Flying up to the dragon is probably a worse idea than forcing (or tricking) the dragon to land. Your fly speeds probably aren't as good as the dragons', and the people who need to get to the dragon (the fighter, barbarian, cleric, and dire bear), can't (air walk is too slow).

3. The dragon could dispel, if it knows dispel. However, you can dispel as well, including counterspelling the dragons dispels with your own dispels. You have more spells than the dragon, and you will be wasting its' precious actions with just one of your own.

4. Find a way to get that damn thing on the ground. It's too intelligent and wise to just land and attack. You'll probably have to find an in-game way to do this, such as by going to the dragons lair and threatening to steal its' treasure (forcing it to fight you inside or else have its' treasure carried away).

Is it too late to dig a fortification into the ground? A dungeon if you will. Something that would give it a reason to land, so you can surprise it with a giant net or something? Does the dragon have eggs that it cares about? How about an illusion of those eggs with your barbarian holding his axe over them? Anything along these lines.

[Melnir]

Is it too late to dig a fortification into the ground? A dungeon if you will. Something that would give it a reason to land, so you can surprise it with a giant net or something? Does the dragon have eggs that it cares about? How about an illusion of those eggs with your barbarian holding his axe over them? Anything along these lines.

The battle is alredy taking place, so we don't have time to build fortification and so on. Is there any spell tha would force the dragon to land? Would stunning it be an option?
We don't have much information on the dragon, it's part of the army and we don't know if its lair is near or it has any eggs (I think it has no eggs).

[hymer]

Dragons are immune to paralysis. Stunning would theoretically be an option, but dragons do have pretty good saves (+21 Fort base for an old blue - with spells, feats, equipment and such it could be higher).
The solid fog mentioned would put the dragon in a stall, but I guess it would also keep the dragon from actually falling to the ground. The DM might well rule the dragon could resume flying once out, so it might take well more than one such effect if the dragon is sufficiently high up.
How are you guys on flying summoned creatures? A sufficently large wind elemental might do the trick?

Edit: Actually, doesn't look like it's going to work with an air elemental. It'd have to be pretty lucky (and big) to bring a dragon down to earth, though Ref saves aren't a dragon's forte.

[Randomguy]

What level casters are we looking at here?

If you could incapacitate the casters with a battlefield control spell that prevents them from casting, then that would be ideal. The only one that comes to mind is Evard's Black Tentacles, since you can't cast a dispel when in grapple because it has somatic components.

A Control Winds from the druid after the tentacles are in place would also help; it would make the dragon's flight harder and force a concentration check to cast, making it harder for the casters to pull a trick like teleporting out.

Some protection from lightning would be helpful, preferably in the form of Energy Immunity but that would eat up a lot of spell slots so a casting of Resist Energy, Mass would be easier.

[dascarletm]

Yes, Kill the Clerics! Kill the Clerics!:smallbiggrin:

Get lightning immunity or resistance, and see if you can see what spells it has/favors, and put defensive buffs against those on your party. Since the dragon will probably fly around raining death, you can take your the ground units while hopefully not sustaining much damage to yourself.

After they are dead, this is where you take on the dragon.

Get flying on your team, and some way to bring the dragon to the ground(maybe animate rope).

I think you get the rest...

[Melnir]

What level casters are we looking at here?

11th level sorcerer with bad spell selection (fortunately he has black tenctacles, so it's an option, otherwise blasts of all kind, invisibility and greater, hypnotic pattern, baleful polymorph, true seeing and fly, IIRC), 10th level cleric (me) focused on melee (I didn't want to, but it was another player's character, so I had to take it as it was), 11th level druid. I'm trying to think on the best spells I could pick for the fight, but I have no brilliant idea atm. Suggestions (except for mass resist energy)?

EDIT: if you were saying the enemies, no idea, but it should be around 7th, 10th at most.

[Duboris]

If it can dispel, and you don't have feather fall, being in the same airspace as it is silly.

Fortunately blue dragons have a ray, and not a cone, so common sense says not to get in a line if at all possible.

If it finds that it's not getting more bang for it's buck with it's ray, and keys in on someone that's actually hurting it, be careful. Dragons are pretty prone to swooping down, grabbing someone, flying up, breathing on them, and if they aren't dead then, they will be when gravity catches up.

Clerics take priority here for the fighters. Your "Artillery" should really focus on the dragon, but try to remain in as much cover as possible, even if you have to make your own instant cover.

Grounding it would help tremendously, but you can dam-well expect a tail swipe and for him to fly off with someone.

Dragons are meant to be played ruthlessly and intelligently, and if it doesn't do these sorts of things, your dm's going easy on you.

Brace yourselves. :U