3.5 spell Alter Spell: can i get some help?

[DrkMagusX]

This spell seems confusing to me as what I can use it for.
I keep my ability scores but get physical qualities of the other.
As a gnome how can I benefit. If I turn into a medium do I lose the size bonus? If I turn smaller than small do I gain benefits?

Examples of how this spell works would be very useful.

[dascarletm]

This ought to help:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871862/3.5Forms_for_Alter_Self

[dascarletm]

so, yes you get size bonus
Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, and so on), racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth).

[DrkMagusX]

So do I have the chose a form? Could I just alter my name to have claws wings etc? The spell seems confusing. I can turn into anything with the sub type of humanoid since I am a gnome. So monstrous humanoids? As long as it has the word humanoid it is game right? Sorry if these seem like silly questions just want to make sure I fully understand what I can do with the spell.

[Kazyan]

Any "humanoid" with 5 or fewer HD is fair game. "Monstrous humanoid" is not, because it is a type seperate from "humanoid". Harpies are in a different category from halflings.

As a gnome, your most useful Alter Self forms are the ones that will grant you a natural armor bonus, as Alter Self is most limited for the humanoid type.

[DrkMagusX]

Seems awfully not very useful then. So the only thing I can use is basic races such as elf dwarf halfling etc. Not sure what is out there but will look and see.

Currently my gnome is in forgotten realms and we are gearing up for underdark run. I guess I could use this as a disguise aid to turn into a drow.

Or perhaps to look like a certain person or fellow pc.

Surely there can be some creative uses for this with its limitations.

[dascarletm]

Alter self is amazing. Hence the link. Look at it.

an example:
Trogledite gives you +6NA

[Piggy Knowles]

Alter self gives you...

-A +10 bonus to disguise
-Natural armor of your new form
-Any natural attacks of your new form
-The size of your new form and all that implies (increased reach for larger forms, -skill and combay bonuses for smaller sizes)
-Movement modes of your new form, including burrow, swim and fly speeds
-Racial skill bonuses and racial bonus feats

That's an awful lot for a second level spell. Turn into a raptoran or avariel for a fly speed with a better duration than many higher level spells. Turn into a trog or lizardfolk in combat for excellent natural armor and multiple attacks. Turn into a whisper gnome or skulk for stealth. It's incredibly versatile, especially for the level.

[dascarletm]

Alter self gives you...

-A +10 bonus to disguise
-Natural armor of your new form
-Any natural attacks of your new form
-The size of your new form and all that implies (increased reach for larger forms, -skill and combay bonuses for smaller sizes)
-Movement modes of your new form, including burrow, swim and fly speeds
-Racial skill bonuses and racial bonus feats

That's an awful lot for a second level spell. Turn into a raptoran or avariel for a fly speed with a better duration than many higher level spells. Turn into a trog or lizardfolk in combat for excellent natural armor and multiple attacks. Turn into a whisper gnome or skulk for stealth. It's incredibly versatile, especially for the level.

Yes, this is what I wanted to say. :smallbiggrin:

[Kazyan]

Alter Self's usefulness depends heavily on your level of optimization, but even in core, you can turn into a Dwarf and gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against spells, which is what you usually make saving throws against in the first place.

I think raptorans don't quite work as a flight form, because their flight is gained through an (Ex) ability that depends on their level. You don't get that (Ex) ability, and thus not the flight--not all raptorans have the movement mode.

[Deophaun]

I think raptorans don't quite work as a flight form, because their flight is gained through an (Ex) ability that depends on their level. You don't get that (Ex) ability, and thus not the flight--not all raptorans have the movement mode.
No, it works, because

You do not gain any extraordinary special attacks or special qualities not noted above under physical qualitiessuch as darkvision, low-light vision, blindsense, blindsight, fast healing, regeneration, scent, and so forth.
And movement modes are noted above, so they are excepted from the prohibition.

[dascarletm]

No, it works, because

And movement modes are noted above, so they are excepted from the prohibition.

But in alter self it says, "mundane movement capabilities"

[Deophaun]

But in alter self it says, "mundane movement capabilities"
From the PHB glossary:

extraordinary ability (Ex): A nonmagical special ability (as
opposed to a spell-like or supernatural ability).

mundane: Normal, commonplace, or everyday. Also used as a
synonym for “nonmagical.”
Hence

extraordinary ability (Ex): A mundane special ability (as
opposed to a spell-like or supernatural ability).

[DrkMagusX]

Ok I see now. I will have to make my own list. Come up with a system for familiar with what creatures. I don't see him turning into strange stuff he has never seen. Might play up some personalitys for forms if I can take the same appearance for each. Like a bugbear that always looks the same and so on. I don't wanna minmax trying to get the best of the best for number sake. With my caster level 9th that's a hour and half of some interesting role play .

Thanks for help I like seeing people respond and help

[Grod_The_Giant]

That's an awful lot for a second level spell. Turn into a raptoran or avariel for a fly speed with a better duration than many higher level spells. Turn into a trog or lizardfolk in combat for excellent natural armor and multiple attacks. Turn into a whisper gnome or skulk for stealth. It's incredibly versatile, especially for the level.
This is a pretty solid list. I'd also like to add Vargs (from MM4, I think), for 60ft move speed and Spring Attack as a racial feat.

[Urpriest]

To put things in context, Alter Self is written with the assumption that you know how monsters work, and what parts of a monster's stats have what effect. If you aren't familiar with that, it might be useful to look through a handbook on the topic, like the one in my sig.