Need build ideas.

[Mechanize]

I have a 18str fighter2/rogue3 that is wielding dual whip daggers. I plan on going into lasher soon.

I'd like some ideas on feats to take. So far I am using Jotunbrud, TWF, Ambidexterity, Combat Expertise and Improved Trip.

I am tempted to go Power Attack and Cleave just for the extra attacks. Since whips have no AoO, maybe I can be proactive about extra attacks? I can trip fairly easily, then get 2 sneak attacks, decent chance of killing then onto a free cleave attack which could be a trip/sneak attack again. Is this worth it? Any better ideas?

[Flickerdart]

Getting your hands on Improved/Superior Unarmed Strike or armour spikes should prove beneficial, as you'll be able to threaten at least some area. You might be able to get some mileage from Deadly Defense or Agile Riposte. Knockdown is a good pick for anyone who wants to trip stuff, and Cobalt Expertise is a nice addition to Combat Expertise.

[Mechanize]

Getting your hands on Improved/Superior Unarmed Strike or armour spikes should prove beneficial, as you'll be able to threaten at least some area. You might be able to get some mileage from Deadly Defense or Agile Riposte. Knockdown is a good pick for anyone who wants to trip stuff, and Cobalt Expertise is a nice addition to Combat Expertise.

How does improved unarmed strike help me? I thought that is just for fighting unarmed?

Any comments on the power attack route?

[Flickerdart]

How does improved unarmed strike help me? I thought that is just for fighting unarmed?
It is, but it lets you kick people in the face even while your hands are busy with the whip daggers.

In terms of PA, since they're one-handed weapons, your return won't be large enough to be worth it without quite a bit of investment, especially since you're taking -4/-4 dual-wielding one-handed weapons.

[Mechanize]

It is, but it lets you kick people in the face even while your hands are busy with the whip daggers.

In terms of PA, since they're one-handed weapons, your return won't be large enough to be worth it without quite a bit of investment, especially since you're taking -4/-4 dual-wielding one-handed weapons.

What is the benefit to being able to kick? It's pretty weak damage. Plus, I just read the feat and it only said that you don't provoke with unarmed attacks and they do lethal damage. Am I looking at the wrong feat?

I was thinking that for starters, since I trip a lot, many of my attacks are melee touch, so I can get away with a few points in power attack. More than anything, I was interested in cleave/great cleave. Since my sneak attack damage will make up for the lack of a two handed weapon as far as power attack damage goes, I should be able to get kills with SA damage then trigger cleave which should be easy to hit with a 15ft range, then starting the whole process over with trip/sneak attack.

[Azoth]

it allows you to threaten adjacent squares so you aren't dead when something closes in on you.

[Flickerdart]

Cleave is an OK feat - you will probably kill stuff once in a while, and are then likely to have another guy within reach. But unless you can deal truly massive damage and one-shot everything you fight, Great Cleave is not going to be useful.

[Metahuman1]

Where does it say they can't be use to make attacks of opportunity? I can't recall that rule for whips or whip daggers.


If you CAN make them, Combat Reflexes + Double Strike (Miniatures Handbook) + Knockdown would be amazing.

It could be worth while to invest in a means of getting Enlarge Person + Alter self active for your fights. Alter Self to give you a form that's more dexterous, and Enlarge Person to move you and your weapons up one size Category for a bit of extra damage and a chunk of extra reach.

A level in Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian would be an excellent Dip for Pounce. the planer touchstone that let's you get 1/day turn undead + some Nightsticks and the Travel Devotion feat would be good for your mobility as well. (You Charge, you come within 15ft, you full attack, you swift action move back out to 25.ft)

The Craven Feat might be a good damage booster. Or take the Leadership Feat to get a bard with optimized Inspire Courage and Dragonfire Inspiration into the party.

When you can afford it, the Speed Property will be your friend. Dessicated, Force, and if you have Immunity to None-lethal Damage, Merciful + Vicious are also nice things to have in the way of weapon property's.

The Thicket of Blades Stance, Devoted Spirit School, Tome of Battle, would be an excellent boon too you, it can be gotten with a feat, pick it up. The Mage Slayer Feat Line + A Martial Discipline Weapon Property Weapon on Armor Spikes Or Gauntlets Would also be of meaningful help.

[Flickerdart]

Where does it say they can't be use to make attacks of opportunity? I can't recall that rule for whips or whip daggers.

Whips and derivatives threaten no squares, which disqualifies them from making AoOs.

[Andion Isurand]

Then get a brewed feat approved that allows them to do so.

[Mechanize]

Then get a brewed feat approved that allows them to do so.

I doubt that will happen, the group sticks to the book. Lasher gives Adjacent AoO anyway so I will not need improved unarmed strike when I get to that level.

Which brings up another question that will totally nullify my previous posts...

We played that you can sneak attack a prone opponent which was really working out well with the tripper rogue build but I don't think that is legal is it? I know in 4.0 you get combat advantage vs prone so its a sneak attack, but what about 3.5? They don't get denied their dex do they?

[Flickerdart]

We played that you can sneak attack a prone opponent which was really working out well with the tripper rogue build but I don't think that is legal is it? I know in 4.0 you get combat advantage vs prone so its a sneak attack, but what about 3.5? They don't get denied their dex do they?
No, prone characters just take a -4 penalty to AC against melee attacks (but +4 against ranged).

[Metahuman1]

I'd suggest looking at players handbook too. Make an affiliation that's like a combat school for whip and derivative weapons.

Make one of the member ship benefits the ability to learn how to threaten all squares inside your reach.


Then apply my other advice.

[Mechanize]

I'd suggest looking at players handbook too. Make an affiliation that's like a combat school for whip and derivative weapons.

Make one of the member ship benefits the ability to learn how to threaten all squares inside your reach.


Then apply my other advice.

I forgot to mention that tome of battle isn't allowed.

Other then that I will have to look up what you are talking about with this affiliation stuff because I have no clue what you are talking about. :smallredface: