[3.5] Dagger Thrower/Melee specialist with a Fighter base. Can it be done?

[PangolinPie]

So I recently took the Leadership feat and decided as my follower I wanted a dagger thrower/melee specialist who was well rounded in both areas. Now normally for that I'd do a Rogue or Swashbuckler (with Daring Outlaw) and do that Master Thrower/Invisible Blade combo but the area our game is currently set in is a bit more conservative and peaceful, the only options available to me according to the DM are a Fighter, Druid, Cleric, Sorcerer, Wizard or Monk.

Our group is already pretty caster heavy with a Cleric, Sorcerer and Druid in the mix and me the only real melee fighter so I wanted some martial back-up. We're all currently at level 11 and the follower will be at level 9. My DM isn't the biggest fan in dipping for only a few levels of a prestige class for the most part, preferring that if we pick a PRSC that we stick with it until the end.

Plus he's really only accepting the standard D&D books as source material rather than Pathfinder or any of the other resources normally cited here.

I thought about maybe doing an odd Fighter/Master Thrower/Dervish build and maybe talk to the DM about switching out the Scimitars for Kukri that can be thrown in mid dance or something...I dunno...

Any ideas?

[StreamOfTheSky]

No rogues is odd. Anyway...

I would avoid Invisible Blade, it's a really bad class that looks cool and shiny. Master Thrower is a fine prestige class, and it can work with no sneak attack at all, especially if Complete Adventurer feats are available. You want Power Throw, to power attack w/ thrown attacks and Brutal Throw, to use strength for attack rolls on thrown attacks, to combo with the level 5 MT trick, "Weak Spot." Your other tricks, I would pick up trip shot (free trip check every attack I make? yes, please!), and...whatever other one you like. The trick to avoid AoOs or the one to double toss w/ full str to damage on each as a standard are decent.

I doubt your DM allows it, but... 4 levels of Bloodstorm Blade (Tome of Battle) is excellent for a non-sneak attacking "power thrower", too.

How to reach Master Thrower is tricky... The optimization gods frown upon more than 2 Fighter levels, though I guess 4 is ok if the Ranged/Melee Weapon Mastery feats from PHB2 are available. Unfortunately, none of the other choices have full BAB or harmonize with throwing much... Monk could maybe combine flurry with Rapid Shot and TWF feat tree and throw lots of power attack touch AC-hitting shuriken, but... that's really short ranged, and I am skeptical the DM would allow FoB and Rapid Shot and/or TWF to combine, even though RAW they can. May just have to go straight classed fighter...

[Juntao112]

Fighter2/ClericX with Cloud of Knives. Have fun.

[gorfnab]

One build I've used previously:
Strongheart Halfling or Human
1. Rogue - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Craven, Far Shot, 2x Flaws
2. Swashbuckler - B: Weapon Finesse
3. Rogue - Two Weapon Fighting
4. Rogue - Penetrating Strike ACF(DS)
5. Swashbuckler
6. Swordsage - B: Weapon Focus: Shadow Hand weapons, Shadowblade
7. Swashbuckler
8. Fighter - Hit-and-Run Tactics ACF (DotU - if your DM is lenient), Targeteer ACF (DragMag 310)- Vital Aim
9. Fighter - Targeteer ACF - Rapid Shot, Improved Two Weapon Fighting
10. Swordsage
11. Master Thrower - B: Quick Draw
12. Master Thrower - Dead Eye (DragMag 304)
13. Master Thrower
14. Master Thrower - B: Snatch Arrows
15. Master Thrower - B: Improved Critical, Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16. Invisible Blade
17. Invisible Blade
18. Invisible Blade - Improved Precise Shot
19. Invisible Blade
20. Invisible Blade

Some ideas for getting infinite daggers to throw:
Glove of Endless Javelins - ask the DM if you can change the javelin part to daggers if you also reduce the damage from 1d6+1 to 1d4+1
Quiver of Anariel - ask the DM if you can change the "Quiver" to "Bandoleer" and arrow(s) to dagger(s).
Quiver of Anariel



Quiver of Anariel:Quivers of Anariel appear to be typical arrow containers capable of holding a score of arrows. However, the quivers automatically replenish themselves with standard or magical arrows, such that they are always full. Some quivers also create arrows made of special materials, such as adamantine, cold iron, or alchemical silver.

Once an arrow it taken from the quiver, it must be used within 1 round or it vanishes.

Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard arrows), 29,000 gp (masterwork arrows), 32,000 gp (+1 arrows), 44,000 gp (+2 arrows), 64,000 gp (+3 arrows), 92,000 gp (+4 arrows), 128,000 gp (+5 arrows); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine arrows, +4,005 gp for cold iron arrows, or +200 gp for alchemical silver arrows; Weight 1 lb.
Thankfully someone saved this article here (http://web.archive.org/web/20070401150041/http:/ww2.wizards.com/Books/Wizards/?doc=fr_lonedrowstats) since WOTC decided to delete the original posting.

Other items to consider:
Rogue's Vest (MIC)
Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (ToM)
Bracers of the Hunter (SoX)

[Socratov]

Afb atm, but there is this halfling only knife throwing prestigeclass overthere which meshes great with masterthrower and knife fighting in general.

[PangolinPie]

No rogues is odd.

Well the city we're currently in a city based on Dulok from the movie Shrek where all criminal elements have been eliminated...very much a totalitarian regime for the most part.

Not sure if he'll go for the Bloodstorm Blade idea...any other PRSC's that would accompany the Master Thrower?


One build I've used previously:
Strongheart Halfling or Human
1. Rogue - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Craven, Far Shot, 2x Flaws
2. Swashbuckler - B: Weapon Finesse
3. Rogue - Two Weapon Fighting
4. Rogue - Penetrating Strike ACF(DS)
5. Swashbuckler
6. Swordsage - B: Weapon Focus: Shadow Hand weapons, Shadowblade
7. Swashbuckler
8. Fighter - Hit-and-Run Tactics ACF (DotU - if your DM is lenient), Targeteer ACF (DragMag 310)- Vital Aim
9. Fighter - Targeteer ACF - Rapid Shot, Improved Two Weapon Fighting
10. Swordsage
11. Master Thrower - B: Quick Draw
12. Master Thrower - Dead Eye (DragMag 304)
13. Master Thrower
14. Master Thrower - B: Snatch Arrows
15. Master Thrower - B: Improved Critical, Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16. Invisible Blade
17. Invisible Blade
18. Invisible Blade - Improved Precise Shot
19. Invisible Blade
20. Invisible Blade

Some ideas for getting infinite daggers to throw:
Glove of Endless Javelins - ask the DM if you can change the javelin part to daggers if you also reduce the damage from 1d6+1 to 1d4+1
Quiver of Anariel - ask the DM if you can change the "Quiver" to "Bandoleer" and arrow(s) to dagger(s).
Quiver of Anariel


Thankfully someone saved this article here (http://web.archive.org/web/20070401150041/http:/ww2.wizards.com/Books/Wizards/?doc=fr_lonedrowstats) since WOTC decided to delete the original posting.

Other items to consider:
Rogue's Vest (MIC)
Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (ToM)
Bracers of the Hunter (SoX)

I would totally do that but as I said my DM told me Rogue and Shwashbuckler aren't options...


Afb atm, but there is this halfling only knife throwing prestigeclass overthere which meshes great with masterthrower and knife fighting in general.

I'd love to hear more about that if you can let me know what it's called.

[StreamOfTheSky]

It's called Whisperknife, from Races of the Wild.

It's really not that good. A big part of its appeal is to make the returning property suck less, so 4 levels of bloodstorm blade largely obsoletes the entire 10 level class. In a game w/o ToB, I still don't think it's that worthwhile. Probably better than going back to Fighter after capping off Master Thrower, though...

EDIT: As for rogues... they're not all "thieves" anymore, this is not 2E. Rogues can be diplomats, scouts for an army, spies working for some government, or lots of other things than just criminals. But, I digress... Not like your DM is going to smack his forehead and go, "Gosh, you're right! I was completely off on that campaign decision!" anyway.

[PangolinPie]

It's called Whisperknife, from Races of the Wild.

It's really not that good. A big part of its appeal is to make the returning property suck less, so 4 levels of bloodstorm blade largely obsoletes the entire 10 level class. In a game w/o ToB, I still don't think it's that worthwhile. Probably better than going back to Fighter after capping off Master Thrower, though...

EDIT: As for rogues... they're not all "thieves" anymore, this is not 2E. Rogues can be diplomats, scouts for an army, spies working for some government, or lots of other things than just criminals. But, I digress... Not like your DM is going to smack his forehead and go, "Gosh, you're right! I was completely off on that campaign decision!" anyway.

Just spoke with my DM and he said Swashbuckler could actually work, but actually Rogue is something he'd rather not have in the team because of something relating to his story.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Well, Swashbuckler is worth 3 levels for Int to damage at least then, probably.

If you DM is cool with Tome of Battle, you could actually dip Swordsage and get Assassin's Stance for +2d6 sneak attack, which...would then qualify you for Daring Outlaw to use your Swashbuckler level as your rogue level for sneak attack dice. Might be decent. Would slow down Master Thrower levels due to the BAB loss, though.

Swordsage 1
Swashbuckler 5
Master Thrower 1
Swordsage +1
Master Thrower +1 (and all future levels until you max it, then back to Swash)

Feats:
1 Weapon Focus (Shadow Hand weapons) [Swordsage]
1 Point Blank Shot
2 Weapon Finesse [Swashbuckler]
3 Precise Shot
6 Rapid Shot
7 Quickdraw [Master Thrower]
9 Daring Outlaw

Has, with Assassin's Stance, +5d6 sneak attack at level 9. Swordsage gives you free weapon focus with daggers (pick shadow hand weapons). Pretty tough on feats, granted. You'd also want to get TWF and the later versions of it, Shadow Blade, and...Adaptive Style wouldn't hurt, either.

[WhatBigTeeth]

With the parameters in the OP, Strongheart Halfling Cloistered Cleric looks like the easiest way to do an effective dagger thrower.

But if full casting isn't on the table, I'd think an assassin build could be made to do the job pretty easily. Monk 2/Swashbuckler 3/Assassin 6 (or avenger (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a), if you aren't into evil) with Arcane Stunt, Invisible Fist and Passive Way fighting style ACFs, Suprising Riposte, Craven, TWF and Carmendine Monk feats and Insightful Feint, Distract Assailant and Alter Self spells would make excellent use out of a decent intelligence, would be able to execute full attack sneak attacks on its own, and would be able to circumvent many of melee builds' normal difficulties.

[PangolinPie]

Considering this is just a follower rather than an actual player character, I'm not as invested in totally maxing out his potential like I would if he were my primary, so I went with a more straightforward build, avoiding dipping and capping PRSC's wherever I could and opting to make him a Halfling for the sake of the Whisperknife PRSC...

Swashbuckler 1 - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Finesse
Swashbuckler 2 - Grace +1
Swashbuckler 3 - Weapon Focus: Kukri, Insightful Strike
Swashbuckler 4
Swashbuckler 5 - Dodge Bonus +1
Master Thrower 1 - Two-Weapon Fighting, Quick Draw, Thrown Weapon Trick (Deadeye Shot)
Whisperknife 1 - Rapid Shot, Uncanny Dodge
Whisperknife 2 - Sneak Attack +1D6
Whisperknife 3 - Daring Outlaw, Defensive Throw, Improved Catch (+4D6 Sneak Attack via Daring Outlaw)
Whisperknife 4 - Close Defense
Whisperknife 5 - +5D6 Sneak Attack
Master Thrower 2 - Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Evasion
Master Thrower 3 - Thrown Weapon Trick (Doubletoss)
Master Thrower 4 - Snatch Arrows
Master Thrower 5 - Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Critical Throw, Thrown Weapon Trick (Weak Spot)
Whisperknife 6 - Fast Movement, Poison use
Whisperknife 7 - Vengeful Strike 1/day
Whisperknife 8 - Improved Precise Shot, Superior Catch, +6D6 Sneak Attack
Whisperknife 9 - Improved Uncanny Dodge, Ranged Flank
Whisperknife 10 - Vengeful Strike 2/day

Its not the most glamorous or optimized build but for a follower its pretty effective especially when I'm the hard hitting barbarian getting cover fire from a dagger happy halfling LOL.

I have a history of aggravating the DM with complicated builds so I wanted to try my best to make this simple since in actuality, the DM is the one who's supposed to build a follower when the Leadership feat is taken and he's putting a lot of faith in me not to give him a headache LOL.

Thoughts? Keeping in mind that again, Rogue is not an option and I'm trying to avoid dipping. Although we may possibly go into epic levels so additional PRSC's I might want to throw into the mix if capping them is a good option I'd be interested in hearing about. I keep hearing mixed reviews on the Invisible Blade PRSC; some say to avoid it at all costs and others say its awesome. Added to this established build I think it would really shine through and I already have all the prereq's for it :smallsmile:

[Socratov]

take palm throw instead of deadeye shot, sneaky shot instead of double toss (don't go for str bonus) and dex-denied is sneak worthy. then either trick shot, two with one blow or weak spot for trick shots...

Oh, and in place of levels 4 and 5 of swashbuckler, pick fighter, for the feats...There are always more feats to take :smallamused::smallcool:

invest in those gloves of infinte blades :smallbiggrin:

[PangolinPie]

take palm throw instead of deadeye shot, sneaky shot instead of double toss (don't go for str bonus) and dex-denied is sneak worthy. then either trick shot, two with one blow or weak spot for trick shots...

Oh, and in place of levels 4 and 5 of swashbuckler, pick fighter, for the feats...There are always more feats to take :smallamused::smallcool:

invest in those gloves of infinte blades :smallbiggrin:

Cool thanks :smallsmile:

Of course I just realized a flaw in my build; I need to already have Sneak Attack in order to qualify for Whisperknife >_>

But actually with the levels of Fighter I could just take Daring Outlaw a few levels earlier and that would qualify...fixes itself :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: Wait crap...I NEED 2D6 of sneak attack in order to even qualify for Daring Outlaw >_>

[Socratov]

1 lvl sneak attack fighter, other regular fighter

[PangolinPie]

1 lvl sneak attack fighter, other regular fighter

Sneak Attack Fighter? :smallconfused:

If you mean that trade-out option a Fighter can use to replace all his bonus feats with levels of Sneak Attack, I'm pretty certain my DM will insist that it covers both levels of Fighter...which...might not be so bad actually...more Sneak Attack levels aren't bad for a Halfling :smallbiggrin:

[Socratov]

Sneak Attack Fighter? :smallconfused:

Unearhted arcana, you lose bonus feats, but gain sneak attack like a rogue (and keep the full bab), so 2 levels of sneak attack fighter. don't forget to take strongheart halfling as your minion :smallamused:

[Daftendirekt]

Unearhted arcana, you lose bonus feats, but gain sneak attack like a rogue (and keep the full bab), so 2 levels of sneak attack fighter. don't forget to take strongheart halfling as your minion :smallamused:

He knows what it is. He is citing the fact that it's a variant of the Fighter and you cannot have a level of a variant Fighter and a level of the core Fighter at the same time. The variant overrides all levels of core. Kinda like how you can't be Mystic Ranger and normal Ranger.

[PangolinPie]

He knows what it is. He is citing the fact that it's a variant of the Fighter and you cannot have a level of a variant Fighter and a level of the core Fighter at the same time. The variant overrides all levels of core. Kinda like how you can't be Mystic Ranger and normal Ranger.

In his defense I edited my post after the fact when I realized what he was talking about :smallbiggrin:

I took a hit to two useful feats but the extra levels of Sneak Attack aren't a bad trade off.

EDIT: Heres the current layout...

Swashbuckler 1 - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Finesse
Swashbuckler 2 - Grace +1
Swashbuckler 3 - Weapon Focus: Kukri, Insightful Strike
Fighter 1 - +1D6 Sneak Attack (UA variant)
Fighter 2 - +2D6 Sneak Attack (UA variant)
Master Thrower 1 - Daring Outlaw, Quick Draw, Thrown Weapon Trick (Palm Throw) (+4D6 Sneak Attack via Daring Outlaw)
Whisperknife 1 - Rapid Shot, Uncanny Dodge
Whisperknife 2 - Sneak Attack +5D6
Whisperknife 3 - Two Weapon Fighting, Defensive Throw, Improved Catch
Whisperknife 4 - Close Defense
Whisperknife 5 - +6D6 Sneak Attack
Master Thrower 2 - Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Evasion
Master Thrower 3 - Thrown Weapon Trick (Sneaky Shot)
Master Thrower 4 - Snatch Arrows
Master Thrower 5 - Far Shot, Critical Throw, Thrown Weapon Trick (Weak Spot)
Whisperknife 6 - Fast Movement, Poison use
Whisperknife 7 - Vengeful Strike 1/day
Whisperknife 8 - Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Superior Catch, +7D6 Sneak Attack
Whisperknife 9 - Improved Uncanny Dodge, Ranged Flank
Whisperknife 10 - Vengeful Strike 2/day

[Socratov]

looks useful enough...

[PangolinPie]

looks useful enough...

Thanks...the idea of creating builds that are more interesting/fun than optimized appeals to me more than anything else. I always believed that a characters flaws is what makes them interesting and relate-able.

I used to game a lot over a decade back and only recently got back into gaming again so I have to re-learn quite a bit.

[Socratov]

Thanks...the idea of creating builds that are more interesting/fun than optimized appeals to me more than anything else. I always believed that a characters flaws is what makes them interesting and relate-able.

I used to game a lot over a decade back and only recently got back into gaming again so I have to re-learn quite a bit.

well, you've come to the right spot...
welcome to the playground :smallcool:

[PangolinPie]

So it turns out my DM plans on taking this game into epic level territory...anything else I could add to this guy? LOL

Maybe Tempest to perfect his two weapon fighting?

[Socratov]

So it turns out my DM plans on taking this game into epic level territory...anything else I could add to this guy? LOL

Maybe Tempest to perfect his two weapon fighting?

No, get the feat for that. You could add swiftblade (and sorc) for some gishyness which could be very awesome...

[Daftendirekt]

In his defense I edited my post after the fact when I realized what he was talking about :smallbiggrin:

I took a hit to two useful feats but the extra levels of Sneak Attack aren't a bad trade off.

EDIT: Heres the current layout...

Swashbuckler 1 - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Finesse
Swashbuckler 2 - Grace +1
Swashbuckler 3 - Weapon Focus: Kukri, Insightful Strike
Fighter 1 - +1D6 Sneak Attack (UA variant)
Fighter 2 - +2D6 Sneak Attack (UA variant)
Master Thrower 1 - Daring Outlaw, Quick Draw, Thrown Weapon Trick (Palm Throw) (+4D6 Sneak Attack via Daring Outlaw)
Whisperknife 1 - Rapid Shot, Uncanny Dodge
Whisperknife 2 - Sneak Attack +5D6
Whisperknife 3 - Two Weapon Fighting, Defensive Throw, Improved Catch
Whisperknife 4 - Close Defense
Whisperknife 5 - +6D6 Sneak Attack
Master Thrower 2 - Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Evasion
Master Thrower 3 - Thrown Weapon Trick (Sneaky Shot)
Master Thrower 4 - Snatch Arrows
Master Thrower 5 - Far Shot, Critical Throw, Thrown Weapon Trick (Weak Spot)
Whisperknife 6 - Fast Movement, Poison use
Whisperknife 7 - Vengeful Strike 1/day
Whisperknife 8 - Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Superior Catch, +7D6 Sneak Attack
Whisperknife 9 - Improved Uncanny Dodge, Ranged Flank
Whisperknife 10 - Vengeful Strike 2/day

Personally I'd do all the Master Thrower in one go before starting Whisperknife. Get the Weak Spot trick for touch attacks ASAP.

EDIT: Also, why on EARTH are you taking Daring Outlaw (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-scoundrel--60/daring-outlaw--508/)? You don't even have any rogue levels...

[Socratov]

I guess it's to make swashbuckler count for sneak attack as well (with 3 levels giving another 2d6 sneak attack). don't use kukri, the feat is too coslty. Use daggers with the gloves of infinite blades. Then you selelct craven as your feat and deal ultimate sneak damage.

I agree with taking masterthrower full first before starting whisperknife.

[PangolinPie]

I agree with taking masterthrower full first before starting whisperknife.

Is that really worth the trade in for Rapid Shot and the major boost of Sneak Attack via Daring Outlaw I'd get from a few levels of Whisperknife?

[StreamOfTheSky]

Why are you waiting for Whisperknife to get Rapid Shot?

What is the appeal of Whisperknife, anyway? Is it just that the seemingly only other alternative is Fighter levels? I could understand that, I suppose...

[PangolinPie]

Why are you waiting for Whisperknife to get Rapid Shot?

What is the appeal of Whisperknife, anyway? Is it just that the seemingly only other alternative is Fighter levels? I could understand that, I suppose...

The perks you get from combining Master Thrower and Whisperknife as a Halfling is pretty damn ridiculous if you want to focus on thrown weapons as your theme. Between the two and bonus feats you could feasibly get every thrown weapon related feat and ability in the game. And Rapid Shot is a class feature of Whisperknife already so I wouldn't bother wasting a feat for that earlier on.

My DM is big on the idea of certain classes not being as common in certain areas of the world he created for our game. So in this particular location, Rogues aren't that common and while I was originally going to make the Fighter a base, he was flexible on the Swashbuckler idea which is what I used along with the Unearthed Arcana variant of Fighter to get the levels of Sneak Attack so I could qualify for Whisperknife and make more use of the Daring Outlaw feat.

I'm open to suggestions though that might work better or possibly to add on later since we're going into epic levels in this campaign.

My DM is fairly traditional, not a big fan of min-maxing, dipping or just generally creating a "cluster****" build of only a level or two of multiple classes just for the sake of stats and abilities. He wants a build to make sense storywise and with what I came up with for this guy, the build does make a lot of sense to him. He also prefers that if we pick a PRSC, that we max it out.

[Socratov]

rapid shot is not as interesting as it seems compared to the thrown weapon tricks (palm throw and getting sneaks off is more interesting). Your major point of damage is sneak attack (daggers do crap damage) and craven. Masterthrower enables you to get it off easily (sneak is possible if dex to ac is denied). If you then increase the number of attacks your damage will rise rapidly. The other way around you'll get your damage boost earlier.

Once you pull off the sneaks easily, rapid shot gets very interesting, especially coupled with palm throw. Also, focus on dex in this build, and get cha so you can cast nicely if you pick up sorc and swiftblade in the epic levels, which would get seriously awesome. (picture this: some enemy pops up, your cohort proceeds to turn aforementioned enemy into a pincusion :smallbiggrin::smallcool:)

[PangolinPie]

...and get cha so you can cast nicely if you pick up sorc and swiftblade in the epic levels, which would get seriously awesome. (picture this: some enemy pops up, your cohort proceeds to turn aforementioned enemy into a pincusion :smallbiggrin::smallcool:)

I opted to put more into Wis to boost his rather pitiful Will save, so if I do go the caster route later I'll probably go Wizard instead. Our DM tends to overlook the raw materials component as long as we follow all the other rules and use a spell book.

The other option is to go Cleric later (maybe even instead of WhisperKnife?) for the Luck domain and that "Cloud of Knives" spells someone mentioned earlier.

[Morphie]

There's an item in MIC that could suit your PC, I'm talking about the Gauntlets of Infinite Blades (6.500 GP, page 101). You'll never need to buy daggers again :)

[StreamOfTheSky]

It's a swift action to get one dagger. It's a pretty useless item for a thrower because of this.

The gloves of endless javelins from the same book is a much better item, with free action activation (and they are *all* +1 weapons, so DR x/magic is no issue). The problem is javelins don't key off nearly as many things (Shadow Blade feat, Master Thrower's Palm Throw trick, and Swashbuckler's Int to damage, to name a few) as daggers do. Still, 30 ft range increment is pretty nice if you don't care about any of the things that would apply to daggers.

On the topic of MIC, Goggles of Foefinding and Gauntlets of Extended Range are both very cheap, very useful items for any thrower character. Cheap enough to pay extra to attach to another magic item effect at +50% cost and still totally be worth it.

[PangolinPie]

EDIT: Also, why on EARTH are you taking Daring Outlaw (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-scoundrel--60/daring-outlaw--508/)? You don't even have any rogue levels...

It doesn't pertain just to Rogue; it works with any class that offers Sneak Attack, in this case the Fighter Variant from UA. And once it goes into effect I'll get two more ranks of Sneak Attack from those first few levels of Swashbuckler.


There's an item in MIC that could suit your PC, I'm talking about the Gauntlets of Infinite Blades (6.500 GP, page 101). You'll never need to buy daggers again :)
It's a swift action to get one dagger. It's a pretty useless item for a thrower because of this.

The gloves of endless javelins from the same book is a much better item, with free action activation (and they are *all* +1 weapons, so DR x/magic is no issue). The problem is javelins don't key off nearly as many things (Shadow Blade feat, Master Thrower's Palm Throw trick, and Swashbuckler's Int to damage, to name a few) as daggers do. Still, 30 ft range increment is pretty nice if you don't care about any of the things that would apply to daggers.

On the topic of MIC, Goggles of Foefinding and Gauntlets of Extended Range are both very cheap, very useful items for any thrower character. Cheap enough to pay extra to attach to another magic item effect at +50% cost and still totally be worth it.

I'll definitely look into the items you guys suggested. Thanks! :smallbiggrin:

[PangolinPie]

I was thinking about this...would the Assassin PRSC be worthwhile alternative to the Whisperknife? I get more ranks in sneak attack plus some pretty decent spellcasting. This character is lawful however so I'd probably opt for the "Avenger" variant.