Double crossbow in D&D

[Nornalhorst]

I had an idea for my weaponsmithing craft skill and that is to create a double crossbow (a single crossbow that would fire 2 bolts at the same time). Would this be possible? If possible what would kind of stats do you think such a weapon would have? And finally would this be worth it? Or would weaponsmithing a different ranged weapon be more useful?

[Than]

If your DM was cool with it you could make one. I would expect them to rule it as an exotic weapon and require a feat for proficiency use.

You could just use the Repeating Crossbow from the SRD though.

[Kadarai]

There are various types of this and errattas on it already. the latest version of the Double Crossbow appears in one of the latest 3.5 Dragon magazines ( i think 8th to last). It deals 1d8/19-20/x2, has 2 chambers, each loadable as a separate move action and you can fire them one after another or both together at the same target with the same attack roll but get a -2 penalty on the roll.

Funny part is that with this weapon and some questions asked in Sage's Advice o that issue and the ones after it, you can apply the Quickloading enchant twice, once for each chamber, and have a a crossbow firing 2 bolts on each attack at a -2 penalty. then there is the Splitting enchantment that affects each bolt fired so basically you can fire 4 bolts per attack, then add haste/rapid shot and a 16 BAB... it's like firing a Gatling gun... Then add the self loading enchantment to forgo the 2nd hand needed for loading it and dual wield them and you basically have the Demon Hunter from DiabloIII. Or go Ninja2/Cleric3/Shadowbane Stalker10 and play Gabriel Van Helsing. It's a tad money intensive but it's fun:D

[Fouredged Sword]

Kobold web enhancement has exactly this.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a

[Nornalhorst]

Kobold web enhancement has exactly this.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a

Oh okay, seems cool and all but not sure if worth wasting a feat

[wanderingbishop]

Has someone been watching the movie Ladyhawke by any chance? :P

[Fouredged Sword]

Yes, exotic weapon prof sucks in general. I would just take quickdraw and load a bunch of crossbows myself, but meh.

As a DM I would allow a item modification "second bowstring" that added 1/2 the weight of the crossbow to the first crossbow and added a second loading rail, up to as many times the player wanted to add extra weight. Each crossbow counts as a separate weapon and must be enchanted and loaded independently. The crossbows can be wielded as if two weapon fighting with a light weapon in the off hand.

This would allow for a cool twfing crossbow ranger. If you can get loading down to a free action then you can fire all day long.

[TuggyNE]

As a DM I would allow a item modification "second bowstring" that added 1/2 the weight of the crossbow to the first crossbow and added a second loading rail, up to as many times the player wanted to add extra weight. Each crossbow counts as a separate weapon and must be enchanted and loaded independently. The crossbows can be wielded as if two weapon fighting with a light weapon in the off hand.

This would allow for a cool twfing crossbow ranger. If you can get loading down to a free action then you can fire all day long.

Since you already can use hand crossbows for TWF, why bother? :smallconfused:

[Daftendirekt]

Since you already can use hand crossbows for TWF, why bother? :smallconfused:

This, and grab Hand Crossbow Focus - Weapon Focus and Quick Draw in one feat.

[Urpriest]

Oh okay, seems cool and all but not sure if worth wasting a feat

Sure, but if you somehow invented a new weapon it would cost a feat anyway, otherwise everyone around the world would immediately somehow have proficiency with it.

[Nornalhorst]

Sure, but if you somehow invented a new weapon it would cost a feat anyway, otherwise everyone around the world would immediately somehow have proficiency with it.

Oh what feat is that? Or are you talking about exotic weapon proficiency?

As for others having proficiency with it, that is ideal since I was going to craft it for party members anyway.

Though initially I didn't think it would be a exotic weapon since realistically using it wouldn't be too different from using a regular crossbow its just now alot heavier but its operated essentially the same way, though loading would be more time consuming.

[Urpriest]

Oh what feat is that? Or are you talking about exotic weapon proficiency?

As for others having proficiency with it, that is ideal since I was going to craft it for party members anyway.

Though initially I didn't think it would be a exotic weapon since realistically using it wouldn't be too different from using a regular crossbow its just now alot heavier but its operated essentially the same way, though loading would be more time consuming.

I mean Exotic Weapon Proficiency, yeah. Heavier is relevant, one generally needs to be used to the weight of a weapon to wield it properly. In this case, that's especially true: you're trying to aim two barrels at once, that's not trivial. This is a weapon nobody has seen before, by definition it's going to be exotic.

[Nornalhorst]

I mean Exotic Weapon Proficiency, yeah. Heavier is relevant, one generally needs to be used to the weight of a weapon to wield it properly. In this case, that's especially true: you're trying to aim two barrels at once, that's not trivial. This is a weapon nobody has seen before, by definition it's going to be exotic.

So yeah bad idea, repeating crossbow would be alot better or rather wait a minute, double heavy repeating crossbows or even better using weapon crafting to give both repeating crossbows 10 round mags:smallcool::smallbiggrin:. Or a better more "realistic" idea would be to have a heavy repeating crossbow with a 20 round drum mag. A man can only dream....:smallsigh::smallbiggrin:

Anyway in all seriousness I probably should just scrap the idea.

[Traab]

Has someone been watching the movie Ladyhawke by any chance? :P

I was thinking David Gemmels Waylander. Badass assassin with a double crossbow. Seriously awesome set of stories revolving around him.

[Greenish]

Since you already can use hand crossbows for TWF, why bother? :smallconfused:Well, without an understanding DM, the reloading takes a bit of effort.


So yeah bad idea, repeating crossbow would be alot better or rather wait a minute, double heavy repeating crossbows or even better using weapon crafting to give both repeating crossbows 10 round mags:smallcool::smallbiggrin:. Or a better more "realistic" idea would be to have a heavy repeating crossbow with a 20 round drum mag. A man can only dream....:smallsigh::smallbiggrin:I seem to recall MIC has the enhancement for 100 arrow/bolt magazine.

[Qc Storm]

Splitting kind of does that. It's a +3 enchant.

You could probably refluff it as shooting twice instead of having the projectile split in midair.

[Ravens_cry]

Splitting kind of does that. It's a +3 enchant.

You could probably refluff it as shooting twice instead of having the projectile split in midair.
The trouble with that refluffing is that one uses bolts twice as fast as the other. With magic arrows, this can make for a significant difference in resource cost.

[Cerlis]

if you have a mildly open minded GM, i'd point out that classes that are proficient with more than simple weapons basically have a dozen or so Martial weapon Proficiency feats. A fighter's class table seems bare, until you realize that he is basically trained in the use of EVERY standard armor and weapon.

Now of course you wouldnt/couldnt/shouldnt be able to treat this as trading in one weapon for one feat, however it makes sense to trade in a weapon for a weapon, or maybe two weapons for an exotic weapon.

Its worth noting that hidden racial abilities include exotic weapon proficiencies for certain races. Orcs and dwarves get two bonus feats. Similarly a single feat gives you access to ALL your exotic racial weapons (for elves and dwarves thats like...6+ weapons).

There is also a variant in Unearthed arcana in which instead of being proficient with so many ranges of weapons you are proficient with certain weapons. Dont quote me on this but its -basically- something like in exchange for not knowing all simple and martial weapons you are proficient with every conceivable sword.

I say all this to establish precedent for exchanging out some of your proficiencies with others. So maybe at where-ever you learned to wield a weapon basic training only included the shortspear and other simple weapons, with the longsword being one of the few martial weapons ALL warriors where taught in. After that you where coaxed to find weapons you where comfortable with (this is unlikely in a trained military organization, but a less organized, personal core it might make sense). So while alot of men went for Polearms, and some focused on their racial weapons, you focused on basic hand to hand weapons (mace, longsword) a few simple weapons with a weapon of your own design as your ideal weapon.

I.E. you aren't proficient in any polearm, but you are proficient in this.

[TuggyNE]

There is also a variant in Unearthed arcana in which instead of being proficient with so many ranges of weapons you are proficient with certain weapons. Dont quote me on this but its -basically- something like in exchange for not knowing all simple and martial weapons you are proficient with every conceivable sword.

Sort of. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/weaponGroupFeats.htm) A Fighter, for example, can take Heavy Blades as one of his four granted proficiency groups, then take Weapon Group: Exotic Weapons (once) and gain all exotic weapons for all groups he has. It's not quite obvious, but I believe he can even substitute in Exotic Weapons for one of his granted proficiency groups, so you don't even have to burn a feat on that.

[Greenish]

Splitting kind of does that. It's a +3 enchant.

You could probably refluff it as shooting twice instead of having the projectile split in midair.I meant Quick Loading, though, which actually does it.


It's not quite obvious, but I believe he can even substitute in Exotic Weapons for one of his granted proficiency groups, so you don't even have to burn a feat on that.I don't see why not.