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qwertyu63
2013-03-31, 12:25 PM
I'd actually like to have a discussion about immortals. That is, those who possess agelessness, living until they are killed. About the roleplaying issues inherent in the idea, and other topics related to it.

I have a character in a game starting soon who has been around for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. And I am going for an "Knowledge Seeker (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SeekerArchetype)" archtype, to give him an endless purpose to go with his endless life.

Any advice for playing an ageless character is welcome, as is anyone else's stories.

awa
2013-03-31, 01:46 PM
first you gotta decide the nature of your agelessness a couple equal valid methods are.

1) you are at peace with eternity theirs no need to rush spending a few centuries to read every single book in a library is an entirely valid choice it's not like your going to run out of time. You have no interest in really getting to know lesser life forms why bother they will be dead before you can ever really know. This type of character is not just a person who lives a long time they are alien in nature and thought.

2) stuck in place this type of character gained immortality in some way they look 20 (age arbitrary pick whatever works for you) but are actually hundreds of years old but the thing is they still act like there 20, sure they might know a lot of information but they will never really mature or change not in any real fundamental way.

3) You could have an immortal who has grown weary of long life not enough to want to kill themselves but enough that this is not as much fun as some might think. they may avoid relationships becuase they are tired of seeing loved ones die of old age they may grow despondent at the fact that the things of their youth are gone and forgotten. A being like this may choose to spend a lot of time in places that remind them of how things once were.

qwertyu63
2013-03-31, 02:15 PM
first you gotta decide the nature of your agelessness a couple equal valid methods are.

1) you are at peace with eternity theirs no need to rush spending a few centuries to read every single book in a library is an entirely valid choice it's not like your going to run out of time. You have no interest in really getting to know lesser life forms why bother they will be dead before you can ever really know. This type of character is not just a person who lives a long time they are alien in nature and thought.

2) stuck in place this type of character gained immortality in some way they look 20 (age arbitrary pick whatever works for you) but are actually hundreds of years old but the thing is they still act like there 20, sure they might know a lot of information but they will never really mature or change not in any real fundamental way.

3) You could have an immortal who has grown weary of long life not enough to want to kill themselves but enough that this is not as much fun as some might think. they may avoid relationships becuase they are tired of seeing loved ones die of old age they may grow despondent at the fact that the things of their youth are gone and forgotten. A being like this may choose to spend a lot of time in places that remind them of how things once were.

I'm going to go stream of consciousness to describe him:

He seeks out knowledge mostly just to have it. He tends not to get too close to most people, as they are gone what is rather quick to him. There are others who live on his scale (His best friend is from this naturally ageless race, and a wizard he used to know is a lich [they hate each other now...]) but they are few and far between. He cares not how long a goal takes, only how hard it is and what is to be had. He is fine with endless life, as there is almost always something new just around the corner. Sure, he misses older things, but he knows if he spends too much time thinking about it, he'll miss what's next.

Frozen_Feet
2013-03-31, 03:29 PM
Playing an ageless character becomes much easier once you do away with concept of indefinite memory. There's no reason for an ageless character to remember every single thing. So, his past is generally blurred together, with only a few highlights or down-lows remembered, and otherwise he acts like a normal elder of around 100 years old.

TheCountAlucard
2013-03-31, 03:56 PM
Any advice for playing an ageless character is welcome, as is anyone else's stories.White Wolf's got a lot of games with functional immortals, actually.

Really, though, the way an immortal behaves differently is going to depend on a few things. One to consider is the circumstances of their immortality.

For instance, in Vampire (Masquerade or Requiem) player characters play at, or are pawns in, long-spanning immortal games. Since the stakes of these potentially-centuries-long games is death, it tends to make vampires step very lightly; since so many of the other "players" of these paranoia-inducing politics are monstrous and far-seeing, vampires also tend to lose sight of their humanity at a startlingly-measurable rate.

Another factor in playing immortals is considering who they were before they gained that power (or, if they were born with it, discovered they had it). For example, in Exalted, you are endowed with godly powers and the shot at living for thousands of years, but you're still you. If you were a compassionate healer before receiving the blessing of the gods, it will still be the case afterward; all the power merely serves to build your legend.

Of course, a third factor to consider is, "What has the immortal lived through?" A man who finds himself on battlefield after battlefield is going to become accustomed to atrocity, but one who keeps getting to see the goodness in man's heart might still find mortals worth fighting (and even dying) for!

kieza
2013-03-31, 05:09 PM
Not a PC, but I did once run an NPC who was one of the Sidhe, a race of functionally immortal, immensely magical beings who tended to slide towards insanity as they got older.

In order to hang on to his mortal outlook (technically, he was half elven, but Sidhe always breed true), he took up hero-mentoring as a hobby. He wandered around listening for rumors of some young upstart trying to do good in the world, and then he'd go seek them out and give them a magic sword or something and point them in the direction of something that needed fixing. Then he'd check back in over the next hundred years or so to see how they did and impart tidbits of wisdom.

It had several advantages for him: he got to help mortals without attracting the attention of older Sidhe, he got to cultivate the friendship of mortals while making it look to the older Sidhe like he was just accumulating a power-base among mortals, and if worst came to worst, he figured that one of the heroes he'd helped out would come kill him if he went off the deep end someday.

He kept various souvenirs from all of the heroes he'd worked with over the last millenia, such as the crown of the first emperor of Arcis Aurum (a human empire that collapsed 700 years ago), a fragment of shell from the egg of the dragon Valmithrax (now an elder wyrm), and the slingstone that Brom the Trickster (a halfling cultural hero/revered ancestor) tried to knock him out with at their first meeting.

NichG
2013-03-31, 05:13 PM
I'd still think an immortal would value time, but a 'young' immortal might not. What I mean is, people as they get older have a tendency to feel like time is passing faster and faster. New things come along, things change, etc. An immortal might feel like they have a mere handful of centuries to enjoy the culture of the time before its replaced with something new that they find odious, or even just that the things they are familiar with now become lost to the ages. 'I'd better make time to go see Rome before it falls' kinds of things.

At the same time, there may be a sort of cynicism and tendency to compare new things to things the immortal has already experienced (even if this comparison is not really accurate): 'You remind me of Alphonse III, he had the same way of saying what he was thinking without a pause in between' or 'Ah, so this situation is like that one time Vodrick's army held that pass, except they have ranged weapons this time?' or 'I remember when the wheel was invented - these new horseless carriages are just more of the same!'.

Depending on how the immortal goes, there may be a tendency to lose idealism in favor of pragmatism, just because of seeing how many times their ideals get betrayed or seeing situations in which idealism failed and made things worse. Alternately, it might be that the press of events is so much that they have to cling to one or two things absolutely in order to preserve their sanity.

Whether or not the immortal feels their immortality exists 'for a purpose' is going to be important to how they act. If they're just living for themselves, they will probably be very cautious about their every action - dying is one thing, but going through eternity maimed? On the other hand, if they're there for a purpose they might either feel like their remaining lifespan belongs to that purpose, so they'd be cautious up until it looked like they could achieve it, at which point they'd be surprisingly self-sacrificing. Or more dangerously, they could feel like whatever gave them their immortality 'won't let them fail'.

Traab
2013-03-31, 05:31 PM
The way I see it, an immortal who has been around for a significant length of time, likely has connections with and knowledge of, just about everywhere. An immortal, after all, tends to have to move around alot if he wants to avoid being discovered. Think the highlander tv show as an example. You spend a decade or two in an area at most, then move on to somewhere else and start over with a new identity. Plus, an immortal who is even putting in minimal effort is likely to be both very rich, and unless they are a greedy character type, not care very much about that fact. So he would likely have caches of money, supplies, weapons, etc, hidden all over the world as just in case clauses.

You put him as a bit disconnected from those around him, that limits my next suggestion a bit. But chances are, someone somewhere owes you a favor. You saved their grandpas life when he was a lad, you set up a young scholar with some seed money to start his own library and now his descendants are in your debt. That sort of thing. Its a nice easy source of local current info and a bit of clandestine aid when needed. It also helps to flesh out a back story a bit.

In fact, going with the knowledge seeker angle, that could make for an interesting hook. Your guy has founded or funded a large number of knowledge repositories over the centuries. These people know about his immortal nature, and know he is basically their patron, though they keep it under their hat. This way, instead of bribing the thieves guild, or listening to inn gossip looking for clues, you can go straight to the senior librarian and say, "Hey, I heard about x. What can you tell us?"

Gavinfoxx
2013-03-31, 07:38 PM
First, have you read the handbook?

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5996.0

That's about the mechanical methods of doing it...

If you can figure out the personalities of the people who would seek, find, and use those methods, that might help a bit.

qwertyu63
2013-03-31, 08:13 PM
Note: I have read the posts I haven't responded to. I just didn't have a response in my head.


First, have you read the handbook?

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5996.0

That's about the mechanical methods of doing it...

If you can figure out the personalities of the people who would seek, find, and use those methods, that might help a bit.

I... never said this was 3.5... It IS, but how did you know that? I'm using Wedded to History...

Gavinfoxx
2013-03-31, 08:30 PM
It's a pretty safe assumption on this forum, when someone is talking about a game like you mentioned, that it's 3.5e or Pathfinder...

Felandria
2013-03-31, 08:52 PM
Well, I play Pathfinder and my character is recently immortal.

Took the Godling prestige class, with the Paramortal Divine Trait.

At Paramortal IV, you cease aging entirely and become to magical aging effects.

I'm not sure how I'll play it, she's a 41 year old half elf/half storm giant, daughter of Zeus.

Basically, when she's around most people, she's serene, content with her new life, but when she's around Zeus and the other Olympians, she's like a giant puppy dog, eager to learn from them and hear stories and she desperately wants to be like them and hopes to prove she belongs with them, no matter what it takes, no matter how many millennia it takes.

She's got no clue what it's like to be immortal yet, she's looking forward to it but secretly she's dreading watching her mortal friends die.

That's something to think about, how does an immortal deal with making personal connections?

When you've been alive for as long as your character has, qwerty, does he try to avoid making friends with mortals, not wanting to get attached and eventually lose them, does he enjoy meeting and getting to know hundreds of years worth of fascinating people, does he actively seek out other immortals so he won't have to lose friends every few decades?

Dr.Epic
2013-03-31, 08:55 PM
Well, they'd need some sort of balance. Like, they can only die if they get decapitated and they can't have children, or what if they're like pseudo-undead and they can only be killed if near remnants of the person they were in life.

Those are some pretty cool and original ideas right?

Water_Bear
2013-03-31, 09:06 PM
I... never said this was 3.5... It IS, but how did you know that?

Giant has a really large 3.5 community, and people tend to assume that any RPG being discussed in 3.5 D&D. It gets kind of old after a while, but not such a huge deal as long as the mods keep sorting out threads posted in the wrong sections.

Traab
2013-03-31, 09:06 PM
Well, they'd need some sort of balance. Like, they can only die if they get decapitated and they can't have children, or what if they're like pseudo-undead and they can only be killed if near remnants of the person they were in life.

Those are some pretty cool and original ideas right?

Geez, where do you come up with this stuff? You should write these down somewhere. They might make for a decent book idea or something.

qwertyu63
2013-03-31, 09:20 PM
Well, they'd need some sort of balance. Like, they can only die if they get decapitated and they can't have children, or what if they're like pseudo-undead and they can only be killed if near remnants of the person they were in life.

Those are some pretty cool and original ideas right?

...In this case they are ageless, meaning they don't die of age. Just about everything else can kill them normally...


(Snip for size)

That's something to think about, how does an immortal deal with making personal connections?

When you've been alive for as long as your character has, qwerty, does he try to avoid making friends with mortals, not wanting to get attached and eventually lose them, does he enjoy meeting and getting to know hundreds of years worth of fascinating people, does he actively seek out other immortals so he won't have to lose friends every few decades?

He meets lots of people, but tries not to get too attached, for exactly the reasons you just mentioned. He currently only knows 2 other immortals (his best friend, and his worst enemy), but is always seeking more.

SIDE NOTE: Your character and her story sound awesome.


Giant has a really large 3.5 community, and people tend to assume that any RPG being discussed in 3.5 D&D. It gets kind of old after a while, but not such a huge deal as long as the mods keep sorting out threads posted in the wrong sections.

Fair enough...

Lord Raziere
2013-03-31, 09:21 PM
Consider how long the immortal has lived.

Under 100 years: Normal humanity

100-200: probably a little different but not anything major

200-1000: at this point you start seeing significant differences, probably. Because at this point, the immortal is old enough for circumstances and culture around them to have changed drastically. however they are probably powerful of some caliber, or very good at surviving.

1000-2000: at this point they seem normal again. anyone who has lived this long is probably very good at hiding their nature and adapting to the people and culture around them, and has had thousands of years of experience at doing so.
however….you don't want to push them, because once they drop the facade, you start seeing how freakishly experienced and weird they are.

2000+: They have probably changed themselves so often, and are so powerful that to face them is to face a terrifyingly powerful being and one of the best liars in existence. be afraid. be very afraid.

Felandria
2013-03-31, 10:52 PM
He meets lots of people, but tries not to get too attached, for exactly the reasons you just mentioned. He currently only knows 2 other immortals (his best friend, and his worst enemy), but is always seeking more.

SIDE NOTE: Your character and her story sound awesome.

Thanks.

I'm either going to make or find an old thread where people post their best characters, so I have something to link to, because I'm sure people are as tired of hearing me tell the whole story as I am of typing it.

saxavarius
2013-03-31, 11:12 PM
I see immortals acting like Fizban. For those who haven't read any of the War of the Lance books he was an old man who was extremely addle brained and couldn't seem to organize his thoughts, but he was extremely knowledgeable. he also kept losing his hat though it was always on his head.

spoilered for spoilersFizban was actually the god Paladine, the platinum dragon, and his appearance and actions were a way to covertly aid the heros without drawing the attention of the god Takhisis, the dark queen of chromatic dragons

Krazzman
2013-04-02, 05:42 AM
I'm currently playing in a Campaign (level 2) but Immortality is sort of a "long-term-plan" by chance.

Mechanically he is going to be a Eldritch Disciple.

As a follower of Tymora he is of the opinion that Traveling is a duty of her clergy (up to a certain age/capability) and he grows to think about advancing transport mechanism... without destroying the beauty of Nature.

The "immortality" by chance enables him to gain enough funds/reputation and connections to do this... and enough time to plan it.

But these are more long term plans, he will most likely try to get in touch with more longer-lived races like elves/dwarves but would ultimately, if not killed, be able to see them die too.

For your character it might be good to think that they are... more open minded as in fresh ideas and new theories can come from new people. Change in methods can bring better results and approaching things from different angles. Your "lorekeeper" has time for that. Others might not and therefore develop faster ways to study stuff.

Gemini Lupus
2013-04-02, 07:18 PM
So, I've got a question regarding playing immortals: How could one justify playing an immortal character, or even a very old character, at level 1, in story? Aside from pulling a FFIV, where the famous sage had essentially forgotten all of his old spells.

TuggyNE
2013-04-02, 07:46 PM
So, I've got a question regarding playing immortals: How could one justify playing an immortal character, or even a very old character, at level 1, in story? Aside from pulling a FFIV, where the famous sage had essentially forgotten all of his old spells.

They spent all their time high to deal with the crushing weight of existence.

Beleriphon
2013-04-02, 08:35 PM
So, I've got a question regarding playing immortals: How could one justify playing an immortal character, or even a very old character, at level 1, in story? Aside from pulling a FFIV, where the famous sage had essentially forgotten all of his old spells.

Elans are psionic creatures that reset to level one after becoming an elan. There's that option, or the fact that just being alive for a long time does not by default mean that have to be a high level/powerful character.

saxavarius
2013-04-02, 09:33 PM
The fact that just being alive for a long time does not by default mean that have to be a high level/powerful character.
QFT.: Mayabe the character only discovered his aptitude for magic recently, or he was forced to take up the sword after a lifetime of farming(or W/E) age doesn't mean you have done the same thing all your life.

Traab
2013-04-02, 09:54 PM
QFT.: Mayabe the character only discovered his aptitude for magic recently, or he was forced to take up the sword after a lifetime of farming(or W/E) age doesn't mean you have done the same thing all your life.

Or maybe its less was forced, and more, "I want to learn everything there is to know about THIS method of fighting now." Put in a little fluff where he has sealed away any extra powers he has picked up along the way.

There was a fanfic I read once awhile ago, where the main character was 13 years old, and had to convince people he was a 3 thousand year old immortal. At one point, when asked to explain why he was starting over as a child he says,


"Tell me, why are you just a Genin? You have millennia of experience, the ability to create bloodline limits at will, extreme wealth and who knows how much power. Why did you choose to become a child and live as a Genin? It doesn't make sense."

Almost cracking a smile Harry shook his head and sat back in his chair. "You wouldn't have guessed, not from your point of view. What do you do when you've read a book and finished it, or watched a movie and seen the ending? Do you sit and stare at the cover or the blank screen? Do you throw it away once you're done with it?"

A strategist through and through Shikaku snorted. "Of yours not, you move onto other things until you decide you want to…" he stopped and his eyes widened.

"…until you want to see the movie again. When you've completed all your goals, when you've hit that plateau where you can't continue on you do what comes natural. You start over and do it again." As he spoke Harry mentally thanked Ssapdril for helping him work out these kinds of aspects. He felt old saying these things but if the Hokage's plan was to work he needed to get through these situations. "Unlike movies or books however life is never the same a second time. Childhoods are different, new friends react in surprising ways, it just keeps changing. So what would you do when you're like me, in a rut and tired of being so powerful?"

With a wince at the jab to his ego Shukaku sighed. "I would become a Genin again and work my way back up just for something to do. You aren't a Genin because you need to be, you are because you want to start over and live your life again. Or I suppose live life again in a new way." He admitted.

Everyone thought for a long while about that while Gabrielle climbed up into Iymithra's lap as she sat in Harry's lap. When the little girl looked up at Harry with a big smile he pat her on the head and muttered a phrase he had heard once from one of his teachers explaining the difference between philosophy and mythology to them his year before starting Hogwarts. "How many things are missed once we lose the wonder that is found in the eyes of a child?" Though he said it to himself it was just loud enough for everyone to hear. The silence was broken only when everyone was called to breakfast by the chef's bell over the intercom.

Something along those lines would be an EXCELLENT way to justify an immortal being a level 1 character.