ECL or character level, which determines epicness

[Haplus]

Hopefully it's a simple one.

Playing in a party that is about to be epic, I think anyway. The party has a couple of characters with level adjustments so their ECL is higher than their HD/character level.

Obviously you take experience based on ECL, so my first thought is that ECL is used; however it occurred to me that this isn't the character's true level and that the actual character level is the number of class levels the character has. Bottom line, I don't know the answer.

Anyway, sure you guys will have an answer for me, ECL or character level, which determines when a character is epic?

[Rhynn]

"When a character is epic" doesn't really mean much of anything. You can get epic feats starting at 21 HD. (Draconomicon has high-HD dragons taking them.)

Although monsters/NPCs seem to stack levels and HD (and the BAB and save bonuses) fully, by a strict reading of the SRD on epic levels, once your character level (HD + class levels) hits 20, you'll no longer use normal attack bonus or save progressions, instead using the epic progressions. You only use epic class progressions for classes beyond 20th level (and prestige classes beyond 10th; but that's limited to 10-level prestige classes, and they can only be taken beyond level 10 if you're already 20th-level or higher).

Check with DM for details and interpretations.

[Haplus]

Thanks for that.

I understand what Epic means for a character; however, after reading through the Epic Handbook and a few other bits and pieces, it wasn't clear to me what the standard interpretation is. For example, it says character level in the handbook (ECL or HD....?)

[SowZ]

Thanks for that.

I understand what Epic means for a character; however, after reading through the Epic Handbook and a few other bits and pieces, it wasn't clear to me what the standard interpretation is. For example, it says character level in the handbook (ECL or HD....?)

You certainly don't need class levels to be epic. If you have RHD, those definitely count. As far as LA is concerned, it may not count, though. Someone else likely has a better response.

[Mcdt2]

I... actually don't know. I always assume it was ECL, but I can't find anywhere that says that. Huh.

Gut reaction though, I'd say ECL. It makes sense because it's what determines EXP, and WOTC wasn't ever consistent with the whole ECL/Character Level/HD thing anyway. For that matter, things aren't usually based on level anyway, even when they claim to be, it's almost always HD (such as aquisition of feats or increases to ability scores.)

[Haplus]

Thanks guys,

Yeah I'm in two minds about this too. ECL makes sense to me, but I can't find anything definitive.

Think I'll suggest ECL to the DM unless I hear a more definite answer today.

Cheers