Vampires D&D 3.5

[Daniel_Johnson]

I have a question about creation/destruction of Vampires.

We are currently playing D&D 3.5.

We just ran through a scenario where the players were in a Village attacked by Vampires. The group came upon the attack after all of the City guard had been slain. The intention was to have them return as Vampire Spawn as well.

The players thwarted the attackers and upon discussing the event with the Magistrate suggested burning the bodies so they would not return. It was not clear to them that what these monsters were.

According to the Rules, Vampires/Vampire Spawn Generate 1D4 Days after burial. I rolled a 4

Each of the Militia were 2 HD each. = Vampire Spawn.

Now here is the Question.

If those bodies are destroyed by fire prior to the 1D4 Days passing, are they destroyed Prior to rising? Will the event of being torched prevent their turning? Following the Letter of the Law, I would say No, but I just wanted another opinion.

Slaying a Vampire
Reducing a vampire’s hit points to 0 or lower incapacitates it but doesn’t always destroy it (see the note on fast healing). However, certain attacks can slay vampires. Exposing any vampire to direct sunlight disorients it: It can take only a single move action or attack action and is destroyed utterly in the next round if it cannot escape. Similarly, immersing a vampire in running water robs it of one-third of its hit points each round until it is destroyed at the end of the third round of immersion. Driving a wooden stake through a vampire’s heart instantly slays the monster. However, it returns to life if the stake is removed, unless the body is destroyed. A popular tactic is to cut off the creature’s head and fill its mouth with holy wafers (or their equivalent).

[Morcleon]

Prior to the 1d4 days passing, the corpses are just that. Corpses. If they're a burnt pile of ashes, there's nothing for the vampire to be created from. They don't get vampire abilities until they actually become vampires.

[Lapak]

If those bodies are destroyed by fire prior to the 1D4 Days passing, are they destroyed Prior to rising? Will the event of being torched prevent their turning? Following the Letter of the Law, I would say No, but I just wanted another opinion.They're not vampires (or vampire spawn) until they rise. So yes, destroying the bodies by fire will keep them from rising.

EDIT to cut down quote block.

[Phelix-Mu]

Before it rises, it's not a vampire, as far as I can tell. The bodies can be destroyed in the manner that any body can be destroyed (fire, disintegration, woodchipper). You should make sure to be thorough, though, since any part of the main body still around could conceivably come back, as far as I can tell.

Anyway, vampires are very powerful enemies. Don't make fighting them worse than it needs to be.

EDIT: Oww, double ninja'd Buffy the Vampire Slayer'd

[Garagos]

If the body is burned instead of buried I would say that the vampire spawn could not rise as they are not techincally vampires yet, so burning their body would still destroy them. I'd rule that they would have to rise from the dead that first time to be actually considered "vampire spawn". Until then they are just normal corpses that can be burned/disintegrated/etc.

Someone could also rule that if they aren't buried they wouldn't be raised either, as it says they only rise 1d4 days after burial. Taking the bodies outside of town to leave them for wolves/crows would be the same thing as burning them.

[Daniel_Johnson]

Excellent Answers! Thank you All.
I was kinda leaning towards that, but just wanted to make sure.

Thank you!

[Ace Nex]

I would say no. Creating a vampire does not make an entirely new body, it alters the existing one. Destroying the body before it is transformed should prevent the transformation from happening. If you take it literally, it says 1d4 days after BURIAL, and if they weren't buried they don't rise. (They also wouldn't have a coffin to return to) I know it's a technicality, so you can dismiss it if you wish.

[Eman Resu]

on topic but a bit of a thread jump, what the heck a Vampire Lords LA?
Furthermore can vamps be psionic / that is take a power manefesting class such as psion or erudite?

eman

[Silva Stormrage]

on topic but a bit of a thread jump, what the heck a Vampire Lords LA?
Furthermore can vamps be psionic / that is take a power manefesting class such as psion or erudite?

eman

Vampire Lords have a LA of 0 as far as I can tell. And why wouldn't vampires be able to?

[TuggyNE]

on topic but a bit of a thread jump, what the heck a Vampire Lords LA?

Probably several points higher than a vampire's (+8), unless it's LA -. (It can't possibly be LA +0. :smallyuk:)


Furthermore can vamps be psionic / that is take a power manefesting class such as psion or erudite?

Yes; psionics explicitly allows undead creatures to manifest.

[Flickerdart]

on topic but a bit of a thread jump, what the heck a Vampire Lords LA?
Furthermore can vamps be psionic / that is take a power manefesting class such as psion or erudite?

eman
Vampire Lords have no listed LA, at least in the web enhancement, meaning that they are not playable.

[Silva Stormrage]

Ya on the master template list it is listed as +0, here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869266/Master_Template_List)

It doesn't have a listed LA (And it doesn't have a LA of - either) but it is listed as advancement by character class.

Frankly it still seems fine, vampire itself is VASTLY over LA'd. Vampire + Vampire Lord still isn't worth 8 LA IMO

[Jeraa]

Vampire Lords have no listed LA, at least in the web enhancement, meaning that they are not playable.

They have no listed level adjustment because they pre-date the level adjustment rules.

[Flickerdart]

They have no listed level adjustment because they pre-date the level adjustment rules.
3.0 books had lines in monster blocks that specified what level a creature was if a player wanted to use it. The Vampire Lord has no such text.

[Jeraa]

3.0 books had lines in monster blocks that specified what level a creature was if a player wanted to use it. The Vampire Lord has no such text.

No, they didn't. At least not in my copy of the 3.0 Monster Manual. Several monsters do have paragraphs about them as characters, but those contain nothing about how to play them as PCs.

Though later books may have such information. (Level adjustment entered the rules near the end of 3.0.)

[Flickerdart]

Either way, the Vampire Lord has neither LA nor a "Vampire Lords as character" section, nor errata, meaning that it is definitely not playable.

[Morcleon]

Actually, the vampire lord's RAI LA is +0. This is a direct typing from the Drag Mag...


We actually have encountered this problem a lot and have received many e-mails in regards to it. The thing is that with the vampire’s abilities to create spawns the character had the potential to become fairly powerful indirectly instead of directly. So that is why we actually created the Vampire Lord template. To quote the Unearthed Arcana rule book, “When a character with a level adjustment advances in experience, the level adjustment he started with becomes more and more of a burden. Eventually, the benefits of the creature type may come to be eclipsed by those of his class features, and the player may regret his choice of race.” We found this to be overly true with a template such as vampire where at first with four class levels it can potentially be powerful at about the mid to high level “sweet spot” it’s powers seem to not really even out with the other characters and any character with this template really falls behind. So we created the Vampire Lord Template and a way of balancing the character out for many more levels. We decided not to include a farther level adjustment on this as it would spoil the whole point of the balancing effect of the template. So far it has actually worked out quite well in practice and we may include similar templates for other races of templates with a really high LA in the future. However so far nothing has been decided.

[mangosta71]

Vampire Lord is a 0 LA template. But to qualify for it, you have to be a vampire with 10+ class levels (so ECL 18+). Of course, vampires have way too many weaknesses to justify a +8 LA to begin with, so I don't see the problem with Vampire Lord not piling more on top of that. As Silva said, the two templates combined are worth less than 8 class levels.

And yes, vampires can take levels in any class for which they meet the requirements, including psionic classes. (A psion is pretty much just a sorcerer that runs off INT instead of CHA.)

[Shining Wrath]

As a reply to OP (before the thread-jacking to Vampire LA):

Are the ashes left out in the sun? That sort of answers the question, then. If those are in some sense vampire ashes, then the sunlight (even through clouds) utterly destroys any vampire.

If they aren't vampire ashes, then they don't become vampires after 4 days.

At least, that's how it seems to me. That's why vampire spawn rise 1d4 days *after burial*. Sunlight prevents the effect.