Help out a New DM?

[Sivarias]

Ok, so I love D&D, I've been wanting to play it since I heard about it when I was twelve. It just sounded like fun to me. I never got a chance to play it until now in college. My new friends were doing homebrew systems (shadows and dust on the homebrew page), but it wasn't classic D&D. It wasn't what I wanted.

I finally talked them around into giving me a shot to show them the beauty and power of actual D&D (3.5) where the rules don't change between sessions and apart from power gamers, things are well balanced already. Here's the rub, I had to DM, and I've never DM'd before. I've been running ok, and we got some other regular players (AD&D) who jumped in on my game because they were pissed at thier DM for running the show with like 4 DMPC who were 5(?) levels higher than them.

Truth be told I enjoy playing more then DMing, but I promised them I would and now I want to show them a good time. I also kinda TPKd them.... Twice.... in the same session......

I've always said death was on the table so consider your consequences. I also misread the challenge ratings so a party of 5
-druid (girlfriend w/ small clue)
-scorceress w/ 22 charisma (allowed because friends girlfriend w/ NO clue so broken not so much due to her lack of gaming experience)
-Alchemist (converted from PF by experienced player)
-Monk (experienced player)
-Halfling Rogue (friend I was showing D&D to)
all level 2 fought an 8th lvl tiefling illusionist
CR 1/2 class level, (though boss fights were 2 challenge ratings higher than party)

Plot so far They fought him to standstill and he fled after getting hit once and knocked to 1/4 health (After I nerfed his phantom illusion spell, bc I semi TPK'd w/ it).
He ran and they fallowed behind with the aid of an emaciated red dragon (CR 4 one) who I ruled was exhausted (his energy being drained by the illusionist for nefarious schemes. They chased and got destroyed by him when he had the backup of his lvl 5 fighter vampire boss and his two vamp spawn guard minions. (Sonic shout with them stuck on stairs)

The alchemist got PISSED because he takes D&D way to seriously. I told them that if they chased to the end of the tunnel they would get destroyed. (I should have had the tunnel door lock behind the illusionist). They as a group said ok. Alchemist almost rage quit like 4 times (his character kept charging forward and dying (I retconned to save because it was an innappropriate encounter)

I design my dungeons with paths. generally an easy one, a medium one and a hard one. each in turn sprouts a path for a tree effect. From the first dungeon they get going down the hard path (Sure we can fight 20 undead and a wight single handedly, NO problem) so they basically skipped the whole dungeon and ended up about 3 or 4 dungeons past were they were supposed to be. (like I said I'm new).:smallfrown:

Campaign idea Generally the campaign was a "lich king" that was a female vampire beguiler who got pissed when her party dumped her when she got turned (she was arrogant and was turned due to arrogance and this was the last straw) and is trying to make a nation of the dead by going from top (nobles, military) down (commoners) and casting a Viel of Darkness spell over the nation to shield the inhabitants from the sun. To do this she needs to drain the energy from a grand dragon. Dragons have become aware of this and have teamed up to prevent species abuse (They like power and they don't want to share).:smallamused:

Idea for fix Right now I have Behamut reviving six months after death the party in a 1/2 dragon village in the mountains on the edge of the kingdom and giesing the players to head to a grand dragon to get further order (that's were I am so far) they get revived at lvl 4 because the campaign is higher level than expected. I still feel that might be too low but I'm not sure.:smalleek:

There is also an evil adventuring party (Ranger (no campianion or spells), Rogue, Hexblade) hired by "lich to harrass them that they haven't met yet. they will meet this party piecewise and if I have my way, won't know they are together.:smallbiggrin:

The party knows about "Lich" because I tipped my hand to early. Basically I'm trying to salvage this campaign but not sure where to go from here. I have a MILLION ideas but they don't fit, and I never wanted an undead campaign to begin with (their cleric dropped). and now I feel it's too cruel.

Any ideas how to fix this?

P.S. a random cat they have named Pate (cleric who dropped) is randomly appears and helps, though not in the way they expect (Gold dragon of unknown level polymorphed)

[Fighter1000]

Your campaign seems pretty badass but I think at level 4, your PCs are a bit out-matched. Perhaps send them away to a different land for a time until they come back stronger and able to save the kingdom? Or just give them like, six or seven free levels.
Cuz it seems to me the main villain in this campaign is that "lich" queen. Even though she is not actually a lich (awesome idea by the way) she is still a vampire, and going to be a hard fight, one that your 4th-level PCs certainly can't handle yet. Even if you did dumb her down a bit, it would seem too weird to have a 4th-level party beat a vampire queen.
And how did your party cleric drop? Eaten by zombies?

[Tsriel]

I have a MILLION ideas but they don't fit

Long time DM of 10+ years chiming in here, there is no such thing as an idea that doesn't fit. With that being said, it's certainly harder to do if you go by the numbers as intended. Since you're new at this, you're bound to make a few mistakes (even I still do from time to time).


I've always said death was on the table so consider your consequences. I also misread the challenge ratings so a party of 5
-druid (girlfriend w/ small clue)
-scorceress w/ 22 charisma (allowed because friends girlfriend w/ NO clue so broken not so much due to her lack of gaming experience)
-Alchemist (converted from PF by experienced player)
-Monk (experienced player)
-Halfling Rogue (friend I was showing D&D to)
all level 2 fought an 8th lvl tiefling illusionist
CR 1/2 class level, (though boss fights were 2 challenge ratings higher than party)

Like this one here. You've already realized it. :smallwink: Don't feel too bad about it. CR is just one of those things that trips up alot of new DMs. My tip for you is to try to not pit the party against anything that's 2 CR above the collective group, but even then, that is supposed to be designed for a very challenging encounter (like, potentially lethal encounter). I use this guideline for my boss fights. A respectable encounter should be right around, if not slightly less than the combined party CR. The typical encounter should rough 'em up abit and drain some resources (spells, healing, item charges, ect), but not so much that they need to rest 8 hours to pick it up again later. (Sadly, this can't be helped much between levels 1-3.)


I design my dungeons with paths. generally an easy one, a medium one and a hard one. each in turn sprouts a path for a tree effect. From the first dungeon they get going down the hard path (Sure we can fight 20 undead and a wight single handedly, NO problem) so they basically skipped the whole dungeon and ended up about 3 or 4 dungeons past were they were supposed to be. (like I said I'm new).

Personally, I never design any dungeon this way for much of the CR discussion above. It's good to have multiple paths through a dungeon as it promotes exploration and discovery, which players of all caliburs enjoy. When I build a dungeon, I like to leave it largely vacant with an exception of a few staged encounters. The rest I leave up to randomization tables. I'm certain you can find some out there on the web, if not, you can just as easily make your own. Just make sure that the tables you use have believable encounters for the scenario/environment and that the CR is appropriate for the group. If there's a monster or trap that you simply cannot be without, there's guidelines in one of the Monster Manuals that detail how to beef up or tone down a monster's CR. It's definitely worth a look.


There is also an evil adventuring party (Ranger (no campianion or spells), Rogue, Hexblade) hired by "lich to harrass them that they haven't met yet. they will meet this party piecewise and if I have my way, won't know they are together.

It's good to see that your villaness has dedicated henchmen. These guys should be thorns in the party's side, but in most cases, should lose to the party. She should continue to rely on them until its very clear to her that they can't get the job done. Of course, by this time, they should be, in theory, powerful enough to challenge her anyway. 4th level is still too low to challenge her, but you can use the henchmen to help level the group up. At level 6, the combined effort of the party should be enough to match a CR 8.

One last note, try to not rely too much on DMPCs. Players tend to expect the help after awhile and do get upset when that help stops coming.

I hope this helps. Good luck with your game. :smallbiggrin: