Help Finding an Explanation

[GreenETC]

I'm currently starting a RHoD campaign for my friends, and have helped them become a moderately optimized group of adventurers. The current party are:
Goliath Warblade
Human Cleric/Crusader > RKV
Human Bard
Human Ranger/Fighter > Deepwood Sniper
Lesser Aasimar Sha'ir

So far, the group looks great, and they seem to work decently well in combat, with exception of their relatively low AC as a party. However, after my test run session, I've found some issues with the Sha'ir, mainly because the guy who plays it is heavy into crazy levels of optimization that go far beyond my own, and after giving him the LA +0 Lesser Aasimar, I was forced into refusing Unseelie Fey, since it would be so much extra book-keeping for me, besides giving him silly stat boosts.

Currently, he keeps doing something to his spells that allow him to make it so whenever they deal damage, the affected creatures have to make a Balance check or fall prone. I thought it was Metamagic, but I believe he said that it wasn't, and even if it was, I doubt that he'd have the ability to cast a spell with Metamagic on it yet, since he only has 2nd or 3rd level spells. Can someone help me figure out what it is that he's doing? I can't seem to find anything about it on his sheet, but since we just started, he might not have written it down. He did it on Flaming Sphere, Magic Missile, and Caltrops, if that matters at all.

[Slipperychicken]

Just ask him what it was. You're the DM, and are well within your rights to know exactly what's going on with the character. Additionally, you have the power to ask him to tone things down if his character is significantly overpowering compared to the rest of the group.

[Matticussama]

When in doubt, have the player show you exactly what it is that allows him to do this; make the player show it to you in the book/website, or at least give you a book name and page number. It is not your duty as DM to hunt around for every class feature, feat, and ability the player says they have. If they can't show you where they got it from, don't allow them to use it; at best, if they can't show you where they got it from they can't double-check to make sure they're using it right, and at worse they might be cheating.

[Slipperychicken]

When in doubt, have the player show you exactly what it is that allows him to do this; make the player show it to you in the book/website, or at least give you a book name and page number. It is not your duty as DM to hunt around for every class feature, feat, and ability the player says they have. If they can't show you where they got it from, don't allow them to use it; at best, if they can't show you where they got it from they can't double-check to make sure they're using it right, and at worse they might be cheating.

My guess is it's something weird from dandwiki. That's where my gaming groups get most of their stupidly-unbalanced material.

EDIT: Which reminds me. Preemptively ban dandwiki and 3rd party material. If they want an exception, they have to get it approved by you before the campaign starts, and when you aren't sure, the default answer is no. It will save you so much trouble going forward.

[TaiLiu]

...stupidly-unbalanced material...
Pun intended? :smalltongue:

[GreenETC]

I sent him a text, so hopefully he'll be able to tell me in the morning.

My guess is it's something weird from dandwiki. That's where my gaming groups get most of their stupidly-unbalanced material.
Considering his class is from Dragon Magazine/Dragon Compendium and he was looking into Dragon Magazine template specifically so he had a 50% chance of getting wings on top of more Charisma for his Diplomancing, I wouldn't be surprised if it came from a very obscure source.

[TaiLiu]

I sent him a text, so hopefully he'll be able to tell me in the morning.

Considering his class is from Dragon Magazine/Dragon Compendium and he was looking into Dragon Magazine template specifically so he had a 50% chance of getting wings on top of more Charisma for his Diplomancing, I wouldn't be surprised if it came from a very obscure source.
Dandwiki is composed mostly of homebrew. It's not an obscure official source.

[Matticussama]

My guess is it's something weird from dandwiki. That's where my gaming groups get most of their stupidly-unbalanced material.

EDIT: Which reminds me. Preemptively ban dandwiki and 3rd party material. If they want an exception, they have to get it approved by you before the campaign starts, and when you aren't sure, the default answer is no. It will save you so much trouble going forward.

Yeah, I agree with this 100%. At the beginning of each of my D&D games I make sure to tell my players that the only web sources that are auto-approved are the d20srd and the official information put out by WotC. Everything else, no matter how legit it seems, either has to (a) have a book source or (b) be approved by me.

[Mnemnosyne]

I am consistently baffled at DMs who do not have a full copy of their player's character sheet and don't go over it before approving of the character and beginning the campaign. I always check over every detail on a player's character sheet before starting the campaign, and if there's anything I don't know by memory I insist that they note down the reference book and page number where the ability came from.

So my advice would be to make him give you a fully annotated and referenced sheet with every ability, feat, item, and so on that he has referenced by source and page number.

[GreenETC]

Dandwiki is composed mostly of homebrew. It's not an obscure official source.

I know it's a pile of random homebrew disguised as real stuff by nature of bad formatting. I just think he actually has a real thing from a Dragon Mag or maybe a power component or something that's doing this, he just didn't note it down.

Usually I have full information on character sheets, since I have possession of all of them, and I usually take a while to go over and do it. They just really wanted to play RIGHT THEN, and he knew how to make his character sheet while I had to help explain ToB to the Warblade and Crusader, since they didn't fully understand how everything works, and they were rushing me so much that everyone basically ran into my last minute dungeon (a reworked version of Keep on the Shadowfell's end boss) with nothing out of their 9000gp WBL except for armor and weapons. Luckily, they caught on quick, and everything ran pretty smoothly, so once I get some time to sit down and actually get everything written down, I should be good.

[Azimov]

Flash frost from Players handbook 2 (apparently) does exactly this. Its a metamgic +1 effect. I dont own the book, so you should check it out. The chances are your player has either an arcane thesis or some form of simple, easy or practical metamagic to reduce the cost to 0.

in order to apply it to everything, he is almost certainly using Snowcasting (Frostburn think?) to make all of his spells qualify.

[Slipperychicken]

He's using the toppling spell metamagic most likely. Try a few google searches for it. Its pathfinder and forces trip checks rather than balance, but it sounds otherwise right.

Honestly, this sounds familiar, and something I've seen in a few metamagic optimizing guides.

Toppling Spell is from Pathfinder (not kosher for 3.5, unless given an exception), and it's a +1 adjustment. However, it only applies to [Force] spells, and the OP mentioned him using it on Flaming Sphere.


I still say ask him, and have him show you his sheet.

[Azimov]

Toppling Spell is from Pathfinder, and it's a +1 adjustment. However, it only applies to [Force] spells, and the OP mentioned him using it on Flaming Sphere.


I still say ask him, and have him show you his sheet.

Yeah, made that post whilst drinking my first coffee of the day. Then re-read the OP and felt like a muffin. Edited my post to reflect what is actually likely going on. Flash Frost + Snowcasting sounds like the culprit.

[Than]

It also sounds like Knockdown Power from Complete Psionic. Metamagic feats are valid to use on powers (with +1 spell level equaling 2 Power Points) so it should be valid for them to return the other direction. However it shouldn't work on magic missile as that doesn't affect an area or force a reflex save.

Either way, make 'em cite their source or ban it as cheating. If he fails to cite and complains about the ban just let him know schools expel cheaters.

[GreenETC]

Turns out it is a subset or something of the Spellstrike Template called Concussive Spell Template from Dragon Compendium, which is one of the few books I don't own. Does anyone have a copy or access to it who would be kinda enough to write what it does or how it works?

[Divide by Zero]

Turns out it is a subset or something of the Spellstrike Template called Concussive Spell Template from Dragon Compendium, which is one of the few books I don't own. Does anyone have a copy or access to it who would be kinda enough to write what it does or how it works?

I don't think copying the entire text online would be legal, but it does force a Balance check vs prone on any damaging spell. It also requires a material component for every cast, a feat, and a RP requirement for Spellstrike which he may not have actually done.

In general, you should never allow someone to use something if you don't own the book and they can't provide you with the text - you should always know exactly what the players are capable of doing.

[Slipperychicken]

Turns out it is a subset or something of the Spellstrike Template called Concussive Spell Template from Dragon Compendium, which is one of the few books I don't own. Does anyone have a copy or access to it who would be kinda enough to write what it does or how it works?

Have him copy it for you, then see if it's balanced enough to include in your game. Dragon Magazine/Compendium is one of those sources, where you should have any material from it run by you before allowing it into the game.

Seconding Divide By Zero, only allow people use material which you have access to. Whether that means legally scanning it for private (non-commercial) use, or disallowing any source material you don't have.

[Azimov]

Wow, that is pretty obscure. uhh, go him?

In a more serious note, take him aside out of character and have a word with him. Explain that his combo is giving you a headache as a DM and ask him if he has any suggestions for what you should both do about it. If you need to take it away from him, to maintain balance, then try and negotiate giving him something back (the xp cost of the template if there is one, or feat cost or whatever)

[Waspinator]

Yeah, if the player is using something from a book you don't have, you should get a photocopy or something.