Encounter Strength for 6 level 5 characters?

[Matticussama]

I am currently designing an encounter which is meant to be a fairly difficult fight for a group of 6 level 5 characters. Thus far I have more-or-less had them face off against moderate challenges, since low levels can be so deadly. Now that they're level 5, however, I want to ramp up the challenge. They are all moderately optimized, although I've dissuaded them from taking some of the more cheesy options, spells, etc.

Even though the party is only composed of 6 PCs, the animal companion and undead minion makes it so that I have to balance combat against 8 combatants. That is part of my difficulty in judging if this encounter will be too difficult or not; I don't want a TPK, but I do want them to have to work hard and use good strategies in order to win.

Party composition:
Warblade 4/Fighter 1
Ranger 5 (homebrew rule giving Ranger access to a limited number of maneuvers)
Rogue 5 (homebrew rule giving Rogue access to a limited number of maneuvers)
Cloistered Cleric 5
Dread Necromancer 5 (w/Rock Wyrm skeleton minion; 8HD dragon with pounce)
Druid 5 (w/Hyena animal companion)


Enemy:
4 Dread Warriors (From Unapproachable East; undead warrior level 4)
2 Bards (level 3; built for ranged combat, plus inspire courage and spells like Grease, Cause Fear and Charm)
2 Rangers (level 3; 1 bow ranger, 1 TWF)
1 modified Green Hag given Sorcerer casting equal to 1/2 HD (level 4 Sorc casting, mostly Evocation)
1 modified 6HD Sea Hag given Dread Necromancer casting equal to HD
1 Paladin of Tyranny 2/Warblade 1/Cleric 3 (Greatsword + Full Plate melee combatant, with maneuvers and spells focused on melee)


Basically, the party is seeking out the Hags and the Paladin of Tyranny who have established a compound in a swamp. The enemies will have the home field advantage; the ranged characters & Hags will be using cover, while the melee characters know the terrain hazards (which areas will force balance checks, which areas are quick sand, etc). The compound itself is in the middle of a small lake (about 50ft from shore to the compound), so swimming to reach it will give the Sea Hag the advantage.

The party has already been warned that it will be a difficult encounter, so they will have some prep time. They also know some of what they will be facing (undead and casters) to prepare spells accordingly but not the total numbers or exact composition.

I am more than willing to provide additional information as needed.

[TuggyNE]

Well, I'm far from an authority on encounter difficulty, but for what it's worth, this is probably an EL 12 or 13 encounter. For an APL 6 or maybe 7 party. So that sounds less "fairly difficult" and more "someone's probably gonna die, maybe several someones". That's especially true if the bards are able to boost the dread warriors.

[sonofzeal]

Agreed with tuggyne. If the monsters fight smart, or the PCs fight dumb, or the dice are at all inconvenient, this could easily be a TPK. I wouldn't throw all that at the party.... unless there was some clear situational advantage they could get. Not "well they had time to prepare", because that honestly doesn't mean much unless they know which specific spells are going to be thrown against them. But if the party can pre-buff, AND get a total surprise ambush in, that should swing it.

[Matticussama]

The party has an extremely likely chance of gaining a surprise round in. At the end of last session, they put together a solid battle plan: the Dread Necromancer will cast Hide From Undead on everyone in the party, while the Cloistered Cleric will cast an Invisibility Sphere. Separately, the Rogue and Ranger will use Potions of Invisibility so that they can split off from the main group and move around to deliver a pincer attack. The Druid has already scouted out the area around the compound from the sky in bird form, so while they don't know the full defenses of the compound they do know the general layout around it and the patrol routes of the grunt soldiers.

The Cleric has multiple Searing Light spells prepared, and the Dread Necromancer has several Command Undead scrolls readied. It is very possible that they will neutralize all 4 Dread Warriors in the first round; at the very least, they will probably take out 2 or 3 of them with spells plus the Warblade. There is a good chance that the Rogue and Ranger will manage to take out another 2 of the lower-level enemies in that first round; with invisibility, rapid shot and sneak attack, the Rogue can probably drop 1 of the Bards or Rangers or severely injure two of them depending upon how he splits up his attacks.

[sonofzeal]

The party has an extremely likely chance of gaining a surprise round in. At the end of last session, they put together a solid battle plan: the Dread Necromancer will cast Hide From Undead on everyone in the party, while the Cloistered Cleric will cast an Invisibility Sphere. Separately, the Rogue and Ranger will use Potions of Invisibility so that they can split off from the main group and move around to deliver a pincer attack. The Druid has already scouted out the area around the compound from the sky in bird form, so while they don't know the full defenses of the compound they do know the general layout around it and the patrol routes of the grunt soldiers.

The Cleric has multiple Searing Light spells prepared, and the Dread Necromancer has several Command Undead scrolls readied. It is very possible that they will neutralize all 4 Dread Warriors in the first round; at the very least, they will probably take out 2 or 3 of them with spells plus the Warblade. There is a good chance that the Rogue and Ranger will manage to take out another 2 of the lower-level enemies in that first round; with invisibility, rapid shot and sneak attack, the Rogue can probably drop 1 of the Bards or Rangers or severely injure two of them depending upon how he splits up his attacks.
There's your answer then. Force multiplication is a wonderful thing. In a face-up brawl the PCs might actually be outmatched (there are indeed 11 enemies), but a devastating surprise round could swing the odds against an even larger force.

[Jack Zander]

This encounter would be a cakewalk for my players. From the looks of your group, you've got players that like to optimize a decent amount. If they are careful they should be fine. Sure would help to have some battlefield control though.

[prufock]

Encounter calculator (http://www.d20srd.org/extras/d20encountercalculator/)

My group is currently at level 6-7, and not high op (knight, eldritch theurge, rogue/fighter/master of masks, and scout). They used 32 point buy, and can handle an encounter up to about 5 levels higher than them with difficulty. This encounter would probably result in at least one PC death.

[Matticussama]

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the feedback. The possibility for at least 1 character death if they're not careful is the sort of danger that I'd like them to be facing, so it is good to know that I was about right with my estimate. It is always better to get feedback and make sure though; I didn't want to accidentally cause a TPK.