Wildshape Druid assistance please!

[Alaxi]

Hello all. It has been a long time since I have been in the world of GiantITP, and first of all I bid thee all hello!

Secondly, I am about to embark on my first D&D game in almost three years. So I am asking build help on a Wildshape concentrating Druid. I have a few ideas in mind, but I want the community (who is ultimately better than I am at creating builds) to toss some ideas my way.

Thirdly, I ask that you also make builds for different games (i.e. core only, expanded sources, etc...) as the DM of said game hasn't told us what he will allow as of yet. Also, if there are homebrew ideas, I would appreciate those as well (I will present them to DM for approval).

Thanks for all of your help! Good to be back in the saddle to play some D&D!

[Immabozo]

Well, I'll give you my favorite Druid build. Druid 5/Master of Many Forms 2 (complete adventurer)/Nature's Warrior 5 (complete Warrior)/War Shaper 5 (Complete Warrior)

I know that's only 17 levels, but you can figure it out from there.

Levels 7 and below are a pain for this character, but you turn into a power house at level 8, and it gets exponentially better at 9, 10 and 12.

Combat forms: at level 8, turn into a troll, level 9, a cave troll, and at 12, a war troll.

(Cave Troll should have mid to high 30's AC, War Troll, with the "Armor of the Crocodile" Nature's Armament, from the Nature's Warrior PrC, should be easily running around with mid to high 40's AC with little effort.)

Flying/running away forms: level 7, a soldier Abiel, at level 12, will o' wisp (depends on interpretation of how the classes stack together, my DM and I understood it as Nature's Warrior stacked with MoMF to decide what you can turn into, thus, aberrations and supernatural abilities at level 12, if not, the Enhanced Wildshape (Spell Compendium) buff is your best friend.

Feats: Fast Wildshape (plus a class feature gives you shifting as a swift action) plus prerequ feats. I cant recall how many slots that leaves open.

The "Bite of The Were(blank)" (Spell Compendium) line of spells are the only buffs you need. I highly suggest using the highest one available before any combat (with them, your War Troll should be reaching low to mid 50's AC).

Wilding armor is what you want, so it will shapeshift with you (although it is a gateway for insane abuse) and you want that necklace, I forget where from, that gives you +4 to your effective HD for determining what you can turn into.

Although, the tactic of turning into a cheetah, running down a foes at 500 movement speed and then when just about to hit him, turning into a rhino, seems like a fun tactic (I would ask the DM for circumstantial extra damage on the rhino charge)!

Actually, you have all discovered my next druid build....

[stack]

Haven't read nature's warrior recently, but why would it stack with the type gained from MOMF?

[Alaxi]

Although, the tactic of turning into a cheetah, running down a foes at 500 movement speed and then when just about to hit him, turning into a rhino, seems like a fun tactic (I would ask the DM for circumstantial extra damage on the rhino charge)!


Nothing is as serious as a charging rhino.

[Divide by Zero]

It's tough to go wrong with Druid 10/Planar Shepherd 10 or Druid 20, since the only classes guaranteed to make a druid stronger are Planar Shepherd and More Druid. In either case, if you're focusing on wild shape you want to figure out what sort of combat you plan to do mostly and take feats for that plus Natural Spell. Druid 20 is going to be your best bet if it turns out to be core-only, because it's still stupidly powerful even with just that.

[Tvtyrant]

Aberration Wildshape feat from Lords of Madness allows you to turn into aberrations, which is awesome.

[Immabozo]

Haven't read nature's warrior recently, but why would it stack with the type gained from MOMF?

It was our understanding of wording in the Nature's Warrior entry. If not, no matter, it is simply a feat to get aberrations and doesn't hinder the build much.


Nothing is as serious as a charging rhino.

Much less, a 60(ish) mile an hour charging rhino!


It's tough to go wrong with Druid 10/Planar Shepherd 10 or Druid 20, since the only classes guaranteed to make a druid stronger are Planar Shepherd and More Druid. In either case, if you're focusing on wild shape you want to figure out what sort of combat you plan to do mostly and take feats for that plus Natural Spell.

I doubt planar Shepard will be approved. That is the single potentially most powerful class of pure cheese, IMO. Like you could feed all of France with the cheese from Planar Shepard.

[Alaxi]

Druid 20 is going to be your best bet if it turns out to be core-only, because it's still stupidly powerful even with just that.

If I go that route, What is the feat progression you'd recommend? Could you list the Druid/Planar Shepard one too?

[Komatik]

Level 6, Natural Spell. If you want to summon, Augment Summoning and somesuch. Rest is kinda whatever.

[SamBurke]

Open the PHB.

Play a Druid.

Win.

Anything more than that is cheese.

[Immabozo]

If I go that route, What is the feat progression you'd recommend? Could you list the Druid/Planar Shepard one too?

Planar Shepard is VERY versatile, depends which plane you align yourself with. Want to make your DM cry with Wish as a SLA 1/day for up to three wishes with no material components at level 10? Plane of fire, turn into an efreeti. 10 rounds per everyone else's one round? plane of dreams. Want to turn into titans and have huge stats? Go for whatever plane the titan's you want are from. Turn into all sorts of nasty, disgusting gnarly monsters and have all their SU and SLAs? Pick your plane. Balor? Solar? Titan? Demon? Devil? more disgusting shinigans, like pseudonatural creatures? pick your plane.

Planar Shepard is broken cheese beyond belief. Full druid spell casting, full animal companion, full wildshaping progression, plus insane goodies that only enhance the druid, with no downsides. The only reason to go Druid 20 is because either 1. Planar shepard is banned, 2. you dont want to break the game 3. you dont want to make your DM cry.

[Urpriest]

Basically, as a Wildshaping-focused Druid, there are a few things you want to find some way of getting, which in general will depend on source access and DM permissiveness. You want an answer to each potential problem:

1. AC: While Wildshape gives you pretty good ability scores and a nice attack routine, Natural Armor and Dex is a poor substitute for a decent melee AC, as sonofzeal's seminal thread amply demonstrated. You want some way to get something approaching Heavy Armor in Wildshape. Depending on sources and DM, ways to do this include a Monk dip/Monk's Belt/Swordsage Dip (provided your Wis is high enough for this to be relevant), wearing Barding (probably fine, but irritates some DMs and makes you unable to change on the fly), Wild Armor (core, but expensive), the Luminous Armor series (powerful, but arguably you can't apply enhancement bonuses, and requires Good), and if you're really desperate Greater Mage Armor or Bracers of Armor.

2. Piercing DR: Wildshape tends to give you a bunch of little attacks. While you'll have the Str to get damage through most DR in your top-end forms, it's still worthwhile to invest in other means. Greater Magic Fang will get you through DR/magic, but others are generally trickier to deal with. Having high individual damage helps, through Power Attack or other Strength boosts, so does simply being aware of your options with respect to spells and wildshape and occasionally picking things less vulnerable to DR.

3. Talking: You will probably want to talk sometimes. If you've got access to the Magic Item Compendium the Pearl of Speech should help, otherwise you're looking at a permanent Rary's Telepathic Bond or a Cursed Medallion of Thought Projection in core. Other sources of Telepathy are of course always nice.

4. Items: You want to take them with you. There are times when a potion or a wand or a scroll will save your bacon. In this, your options are either putting things on after you wildshape (tedious and annoys some DMs) or Wilding Clasps (Magic Item Compendium), possibly along with the silly "one function of a belt is to store items" reading.

5. Iteratives: By default, you won't get extra attacks from having a high BAB. Since you can get these attacks without giving up any (or many) of your natural attacks, you should! Options are Monk Dip/Monk's Belt/just taking the feat Improved Unarmed Strike (core), Mouthpick Weapons (Lords of Madness, maybe also Draconomicon), and turning into things that can use weapons. Comparing to Improved Unarmed Strike, Mouthpick is nice because it gives you two-handed weapons and automatically gives you proficiency, but bad because you give up your bite and it costs money.

6. Various high level tricks: These are the same as for everybody. Try to get a Death Ward effect. Try to get a Mind Blank effect. Try to get a Freedom of Movement effect. Try to get some teleportation. Etc.